A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[johnnycool]

Many private Hospitals in the 6?

Probably 2 or 3 hospitals but quite a few day clinics and the demand is increasing as waiting times in the NHS go through the roof even before Covid.

[trailer]

Many private Hospitals in the 6?

There's a few. But the difference between NHS and Private is a fancy room and about 3 years. In most cases it's the same consultant.

[johnnycool]

Many private Hospitals in the 6?

There's a few. But the difference between NHS and Private is a fancy room and about 3 years. In most cases it's the same consultant.

Very much so.

It used to be that if you saw the consultant privately for the first consultation you got bumped up their NHS waiting list.

[Rossfan]

Here nearly all Consultants have private rooms in the public hospitals plus some private hospital practice too.
In the main their Public contracts are for 20 hours per week.

[Main Street]

Nordies can continue to access their British subvented NHS service, guaranteed  until that time  that medical card status be made available to at least 90% of the citizens.
The Brit exchequer can pay a % and  the EU can pay a % of extra costs.
Those are details for negotiation before a border poll.
More serious issues beckon, whatabout the DUP and their ilk (racist bigots beyond repair), going into coalition with Fine Gael? what a nightmare? Never! Never! Never!

You really think we in Cavan will keep paying GP & health insurance bills while our neighbours 20 miles north get it all for free? 

I thought most of you Cavanites were hovering on the  poverty line and entitled to medical cards   Do you think it's beyond the boundaries of  any pre-border poll negotiations to come up with some structure that would allow mainly NI residents continue to use their medical services at their (alleged) high current standards?
Where I live, I am signed up to my local medical clinic, I am assigned a medic and that medic is the one who approves of further neccessary  treatment, I just can't turn up at  a hospital and ask for a kidney transplant.  My (very thin) medical files are in a secure digitally protected location,  I can access them to some basic degree, they are fully accesable to other medics but  there is a digital trail.

[6th sam]

If you want treatment for anything in the North you're going private. The vast majority of my friends have all went private to have children.

Sorry trailer , that just isn't correct and insulting to those who work in the nhS. The NHS isn't perfect as JC has highlighted but it's available to everyone regardless of social class. Most people I know don't have private healthcare. The vast majority of mothers in the North go NHS. The nHS is ridiculously under resourced , but one of the reasons that waiting lists are so long is because it's free, and therefore overused by many . 300000 on Waiting lists for example does not account for duplicated names and many on waiting lists are not seriously ill . Where the NHS falls down is that free healthcare results in too much resource being put into fairly trivial illness , as opposed to those that really need it. With increased resources and disincentives to overuse , it could improve dramatically. Those that advocate more private health care in the North should remember that their taxes pay to educate medical and nursing staff, a strong private sector removes these staff from the NHS, undermining it further, and those that can't afford private healthcare end up shafted.

[five points]

I thought most of you Cavanites were hovering on the  poverty line and entitled to medical cards   Do you think it's beyond the boundaries of  any pre-border poll negotiations to come up with some structure that would allow mainly NI residents continue to use their medical services at their (alleged) high current standards?

Everything is possible in theory but in practice, there's no way that I and people like me are going to tolerate spending three grand a year on family health insurance while people twenty miles away and in similar financial circumstances are getting free healthcare on the public dime from the same government.

[Angelo]

If you want treatment for anything in the North you're going private. The vast majority of my friends have all went private to have children.

Sorry trailer , that just isn't correct and insulting to those who work in the nhS. The NHS isn't perfect as JC has highlighted but it's available to everyone regardless of social class. Most people I know don't have private healthcare. The vast majority of mothers in the North go NHS. The nHS is ridiculously under resourced , but one of the reasons that waiting lists are so long is because it's free, and therefore overused by many . 300000 on Waiting lists for example does not account for duplicated names and many on waiting lists are not seriously ill . Where the NHS falls down is that free healthcare results in too much resource being put into fairly trivial illness , as opposed to those that really need it. With increased resources and disincentives to overuse , it could improve dramatically. Those that advocate more private health care in the North should remember that their taxes pay to educate medical and nursing staff, a strong private sector removes these staff from the NHS, undermining it further, and those that can't afford private healthcare end up shafted.

Well said, people in the O6 should look down at the free state and what a shambolic health service really looks like. If you want to be forking out 7/8k on top of your taxes a year to insure you and your family have a good chance of getting proper healthcare in the event of it.....

Be careful what you wish for.

One of the major selling points for the south in reunification should be the complete reform of their HSE. FFG have destroyed public health for their citizens in order to satisfy the interests of the private interests they serve, much like they have done with the housing crisis where they have screwed the young generation in order to service vulture funds and private interests to hover up residential supplies, move it to the rental market and then send it out of control.

[five points]

One of the major selling points for the south in reunification should be the complete reform of their HSE. FFG have destroyed public health for their citizens in order to satisfy the interests of the private interests they serve, much like they have done with the housing crisis where they have screwed the young generation in order to service vulture funds and private interests to hover up residential supplies, move it to the rental market and then send it out of control.

Proper reform of the HSE would entail tens of thousands of redundancies and would be a political calamity for whatever party even suggests it, let alone implements it. Representatives of all the political parties sit on HSE and hospital boards up and down the country and not one will ever dare propose such reform.

[armaghniac]

I thought most of you Cavanites were hovering on the  poverty line and entitled to medical cards   Do you think it's beyond the boundaries of  any pre-border poll negotiations to come up with some structure that would allow mainly NI residents continue to use their medical services at their (alleged) high current standards?

Everything is possible in theory but in practice, there's no way that I and people like me are going to tolerate spending three grand a year on family health insurance while people twenty miles away and in similar financial circumstances are getting free healthcare on the public dime from the same government.

You don't have to pay three grand on health insurance, you can get public care of comparable standard or superior standard to what is available in NI for less than that.

People in NI pay a lot in National Insurance, they get free health care but do pay for it. A person on median salary in NI has €1000 more in deductions than someone in the ROI on that salary.. In a UI they could simply introduce a scheme where you would continue to pay a similar amount and get free public health care. Of course a lot of people a the lower end would get medical cards and not need to pay this.

Going back to 6th Sam's point about overuse, I would be inclined to retain a modest charge for things, whether GPs or prescriptions, which exist in many European countries. People do not value that which is free. Of course these charges could be waived for actual ill people who have to use services frequently.

[Angelo]

One of the major selling points for the south in reunification should be the complete reform of their HSE. FFG have destroyed public health for their citizens in order to satisfy the interests of the private interests they serve, much like they have done with the housing crisis where they have screwed the young generation in order to service vulture funds and private interests to hover up residential supplies, move it to the rental market and then send it out of control.

Proper reform of the HSE would entail tens of thousands of redundancies and would be a political calamity for whatever party even suggests it, let alone implements it. Representatives of all the political parties sit on HSE and hospital boards up and down the country and not one will ever dare propose such reform.

There's only two parties in the free state who have ever had the capacity to reform the health service, they continue to make an even bigger shambles of it with every tenure.

[five points]

You don't have to pay three grand on health insurance, you can get public care of comparable or superior standard to what is available in NI for less than that.

Sure I know that, we all do, but if I rely on public care and end up needing say "non-urgent" cancer treatment or heart surgery, I'll have to wait my turn on a public waiting list. And I might die waiting, as some of my neighbours have.

[five points]

One of the major selling points for the south in reunification should be the complete reform of their HSE. FFG have destroyed public health for their citizens in order to satisfy the interests of the private interests they serve, much like they have done with the housing crisis where they have screwed the young generation in order to service vulture funds and private interests to hover up residential supplies, move it to the rental market and then send it out of control.

Proper reform of the HSE would entail tens of thousands of redundancies and would be a political calamity for whatever party even suggests it, let alone implements it. Representatives of all the political parties sit on HSE and hospital boards up and down the country and not one will ever dare propose such reform.

There's only two parties in the free state who have ever had the capacity to reform the health service, they continue to make an even bigger shambles of it with every tenure.

If either of them were foolish enough to even mention it this afternoon as a possibility, the Shinners would eviscerate them for it. That's why it was a total non-issue in last year's general election and will be the same in the next election.

[Angelo]

One of the major selling points for the south in reunification should be the complete reform of their HSE. FFG have destroyed public health for their citizens in order to satisfy the interests of the private interests they serve, much like they have done with the housing crisis where they have screwed the young generation in order to service vulture funds and private interests to hover up residential supplies, move it to the rental market and then send it out of control.

Proper reform of the HSE would entail tens of thousands of redundancies and would be a political calamity for whatever party even suggests it, let alone implements it. Representatives of all the political parties sit on HSE and hospital boards up and down the country and not one will ever dare propose such reform.

There's only two parties in the free state who have ever had the capacity to reform the health service, they continue to make an even bigger shambles of it with every tenure.

If either of them were foolish enough to even mention it this afternoon as a possibility, the Shinners would eviscerate them for it. That's why it was a total non-issue in last year's general election and will be the same in the next election.

Once again, you are talking in hypotheticals - not facts.

SF have been very vocal about the need for healthcare reform in the 26 and a move to implementing a health care system much more like the NHS.

Everytime we have a narrative about the incompetence and sleaze of FFG you deflect onto some unknown hypothetical about SF - it's utterly bizarre.

[Rossfan]

I wonder if our 2 geniuses could
1 - give us an outline of their perfect public health service
2 - the steps to achieve this
3 - their expertise and knowledge of reforming large public service bodies.

I had cancer some years ago. Had an operation and follow up treatments etc all done free of charge (apart from public hospital over night €75) in a public Hospital in the 26 Counties. No delays.

Another relation had suspicions, went to GP, was seen in a public Hospital 10 days later as a public patient and the cancer was sorted out.
By the way the cheapest Private Hospital Insurance cover is around €730 per adult.