A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[north_antrim_hound]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

This gives Sinn Fein a double win. A United Ireland & the ruling party in the six counties. The Unionists and Loyalists would have a better existince in a 32 county U.I. than under a S.F controlled enclave.

Would Sinn Fein be the majority party north and south combined in a UI

[armaghniac]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

This gives Sinn Fein a double win. A United Ireland & the ruling party in the six counties. The Unionists and Loyalists would have a better existince in a 32 county U.I. than under a S.F controlled enclave.

Would Sinn Fein be the majority party north and south combined in a UI

Of course not, although it might have some chance of being the biggest party. It would soon lose vote share in the former 6 counties though, when people considered its (im)practical policies.

[Eamonnca1]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

This gives Sinn Fein a double win. A United Ireland & the ruling party in the six counties. The Unionists and Loyalists would have a better existince in a 32 county U.I. than under a S.F controlled enclave.

I happen to be in favour of keeping power sharing in place in the north after reunification.

[OgraAnDun]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

This gives Sinn Fein a double win. A United Ireland & the ruling party in the six counties. The Unionists and Loyalists would have a better existince in a 32 county U.I. than under a S.F controlled enclave.

I happen to be in favour of keeping power sharing in place in the north after reunification.

Necessary evil to placate unionists and let them retain some semblance of power. Also provide them with a minimum number of seats in the Seanad. However I'd like to see it on a 9 county Ulster basis, or with four small provincial assemblies with very limited powers.

[Eamonnca1]

Necessary evil to placate unionists and let them retain some semblance of power.

Exactly. Leave it in place for a generation and it becomes obsolete. Then quietly take out the power sharing.

However I'd like to see it on a 9 county Ulster basis, or with four small provincial assemblies with very limited powers.

Why? I don't see any need for an extra layer of local government.

[OgraAnDun]

Necessary evil to placate unionists and let them retain some semblance of power.

Exactly. Leave it in place for a generation and it becomes obsolete. Then quietly take out the power sharing.

However I'd like to see it on a 9 county Ulster basis, or with four small provincial assemblies with very limited powers.

Why? I don't see any need for an extra layer of local government.

Because then the north doesn't feel like a special statelet but I suppose, as you say, better to let it fade out over the course of a couple of generations.

[Eamonnca1]

I don't see any harm in keeping it like a Hong Kong style special administrative area.

[michaelg]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

Well if this arrangement placates all sides and gets British involvement out its a start

How is this new state gonna be funded

At least one of you can see the big fat elephant in the room

[Windmill abu]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

Well if this arrangement placates all sides and gets British involvement out its a start

How is this new state gonna be funded

At least one of you can see the big fat elephant in the room

Well for a start you could sell loads of property in the north to a U.S. company at a cut price. Oh wait, youv'e already done that.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

Well if this arrangement placates all sides and gets British involvement out its a start

How is this new state gonna be funded

At least one of you can see the big fat elephant in the room

None so blind, as those who will not see: Reunification Economic Windfall

[north_antrim_hound]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

Well if this arrangement placates all sides and gets British involvement out its a start

How is this new state gonna be funded

At least one of you can see the big fat elephant in the room

Well for a start you could sell loads of property in the north to a U.S. company at a cut price. Oh wait, youv'e already done that.

I think if you do your homework there's a bit of that going on further south as well

Funding is gonna be a big factor having that said Imm fed up with people from the republic coming out with "we can't afford you" as a lazy Unresearched excuse for the status quo
Britain is leaking 80 odd million a year in deficit terms contributing to their 1.5 trillion debt
I can't believe N Ireland is responsible 9 of that even with a top heavy civil service
Would love to see some real figures and how much GB would contribute anualy and for how long just to get shot of us once and for all

[Rossfan]

Exactly. I wouldn't have a problem with Stormont being retained in its present form as a regional assembly within a UI.

Well if this arrangement placates all sides and gets British involvement out its a start

How is this new state gonna be funded

At least one of you can see the big fat elephant in the room

Same way as all States are funded - by the people who live in it.

[armaghniac]

Funding is gonna be a big factor having that said Imm fed up with people from the republic coming out with "we can't afford you" as a lazy Unresearched excuse for the status quo
Britain is leaking 80 odd million a year in deficit terms contributing to their 1.5 trillion debt
I can't believe N Ireland is responsible 9 of that even with a top heavy civil service
Would love to see some real figures and how much GB would contribute anualy and for how long just to get shot of us once and for all

It is hardly unreasoned. After having what had been the most prosperous part of the country at partition, the British should not be allowed hand it over in rag order so that Irish people have to fix it up.
However I would like to see the calculations, NI is supposed to have a lot of public expenditure, yet services are not all that stellar. Where exactly does the money go? I suspect the problem is on the other side of the balance sheet, in that no enough tax is collected.

[north_antrim_hound]

Funding is gonna be a big factor having that said Imm fed up with people from the republic coming out with "we can't afford you" as a lazy Unresearched excuse for the status quo
Britain is leaking 80 odd million a year in deficit terms contributing to their 1.5 trillion debt
I can't believe N Ireland is responsible 9 of that even with a top heavy civil service
Would love to see some real figures and how much GB would contribute anualy and for how long just to get shot of us once and for all

It is hardly unreasoned. After having what had been the most prosperous part of the country at partition, the British should not be allowed hand it over in rag order so that Irish people have to fix it up.
However I would like to see the calculations, NI is supposed to have a lot of public expenditure, yet services are not all that stellar. Where exactly does the money go? I suspect the problem is on the other side of the balance sheet, in that no enough tax is collected.

Yes I agree and we can't blame it all on you lads in Armagh
You can only wash so much Deisel, definitely not 9 billion a year😃😃

[Take Your Points]

Funding is gonna be a big factor having that said Imm fed up with people from the republic coming out with "we can't afford you" as a lazy Unresearched excuse for the status quo
Britain is leaking 80 odd million a year in deficit terms contributing to their 1.5 trillion debt
I can't believe N Ireland is responsible 9 of that even with a top heavy civil service
Would love to see some real figures and how much GB would contribute anualy and for how long just to get shot of us once and for all

It is hardly unreasoned. After having what had been the most prosperous part of the country at partition, the British should not be allowed hand it over in rag order so that Irish people have to fix it up.
However I would like to see the calculations, NI is supposed to have a lot of public expenditure, yet services are not all that stellar. Where exactly does the money go? I suspect the problem is on the other side of the balance sheet, in that no enough tax is collected.

Correct.  As the public sector is the major employer the tax revenue is simply recycled.  The pay bill for the public sector must be huge.

Govt pays public sector employees and retains at least 30% of this amount in direct taxes.  These employees spend their money and a significant portion trickles back to govt via indirect taxes such as rates, VAT and duties on goods.  Business rates are a significant source of income in GB, about 4% or £25bn pa.  In N.Ireland this is a very small return. Corporation tax makes a poor return and this is seen by proposals to cut it were only going to cost £200m pa to block grant. The benefits system also allows some degree of recycling of payments.

Then there is the NHS, which could never be replicated or maintained in a UI situation given its scope and service provision and that does not begin to look at the cost of the social care provision we currently have regardless of how bad we might consider it to be.

To replace a block grant of £10bn, it would require a huge tax recovery from the private sector which it could never sustain because it is so small compared to the public sector in terms of its industrial out and pay to its employees.