A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[johnnycool]

First thing that happened after NI opted out of Free State (technically all island was independent for a second), was the boundary commission. Cormac Moore had a good article in Irish News a while back on how the Free State Government, in particular two ministers from North, made a hames of that.

https://www.irishnews.com/arts/2023/07/25/news/cormac_moore_was_eoin_macneill_to_blame_for_boundary_commission_s_disastrous_outcome_-3464293/

Supposedly Churchhill offered a UI in return from Dev's help in World War II. Dev didn't trust him and maintained neutrality. It might have been the best chance lost.

Dev was entirely right, Churchill was a cúnt in a long line of cúnts.

Was he? Look at the number of dominions that gained independence after being Co-opted to fight in WW2.

How many of them were less than 50 miles off the GB coastline in a time of a still uncertain Europe?

Not to mention there were plenty from the north who fought with the Brits in WW2 who mightnt have been too happy at that

Not as many as the hardline loyalists would have you believe. Plenty of fighting age men holed up in the shipyard rather than go off to war, lest we forget.

[Milltown Row2]

First thing that happened after NI opted out of Free State (technically all island was independent for a second), was the boundary commission. Cormac Moore had a good article in Irish News a while back on how the Free State Government, in particular two ministers from North, made a hames of that.

https://www.irishnews.com/arts/2023/07/25/news/cormac_moore_was_eoin_macneill_to_blame_for_boundary_commission_s_disastrous_outcome_-3464293/

Supposedly Churchhill offered a UI in return from Dev's help in World War II. Dev didn't trust him and maintained neutrality. It might have been the best chance lost.

Dev was entirely right, Churchill was a cúnt in a long line of cúnts.

Was he? Look at the number of dominions that gained independence after being Co-opted to fight in WW2.

How many of them were less than 50 miles off the GB coastline in a time of a still uncertain Europe?

Not to mention there were plenty from the north who fought with the Brits in WW2 who mightnt have been too happy at that

Not as many as the hardline loyalists would have you believe. Plenty of fighting age men holed up in the shipyard rather than go off to war, lest we forget.

Which during the war the yard was used to 'help' the war effort through industry

Harland and Wolff made tanks and guns in the early years of the Second World War. For the Royal Navy, they constructed aircraft carriers.

But yes, if you were looking to avoid being in a war become a welder 

[seafoid]

First thing that happened after NI opted out of Free State (technically all island was independent for a second), was the boundary commission. Cormac Moore had a good article in Irish News a while back on how the Free State Government, in particular two ministers from North, made a hames of that.

https://www.irishnews.com/arts/2023/07/25/news/cormac_moore_was_eoin_macneill_to_blame_for_boundary_commission_s_disastrous_outcome_-3464293/

Supposedly Churchhill offered a UI in return from Dev's help in World War II. Dev didn't trust him and maintained neutrality. It might have been the best chance lost.

1939 was 19 years after the Tans. There is no way Dev could have accepted and the country wasn't ready to re-  integrate the North , regardless of public feeling about it. The economy was a basket case until the early 60s.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Trusting the genocidal Churchill was a non starter.

Taking Tories at their word, likewise.  See promises made about support for the British efforts in WW1.

[seafoid]

First thing that happened after NI opted out of Free State (technically all island was independent for a second), was the boundary commission. Cormac Moore had a good article in Irish News a while back on how the Free State Government, in particular two ministers from North, made a hames of that.

https://www.irishnews.com/arts/2023/07/25/news/cormac_moore_was_eoin_macneill_to_blame_for_boundary_commission_s_disastrous_outcome_-3464293/

Supposedly Churchhill offered a UI in return from Dev's help in World War II. Dev didn't trust him and maintained neutrality. It might have been the best chance lost.

1921 negotiations
"The Irish delegates led by Arthur Griffith were poorly prepared and, unlike the British side, lacked an opening position paper. As the doyen of Anglo-Irish historical analysis, Nicholas Mansergh was later to note, "the basic paper at any conference is apt to determine the parameters of subsequent discussion . . . This was to prove no exception."

The Boundary Commission was always vague and the Irish side were unprepared. The Brits ran rings around them and it resulted in a lot of Irish people being stranded for over a century.

[AustinPowers]

Those goalposts  moving further away

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67020960

The Brits will always  play the "not enough support for a UI" card . 

So ,  the only way to  see if there's enough support for a UI , is to have a border poll?  But will that  poll  ever happen?

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Those goalposts  moving further away

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67020960

The Brits will always  play the "not enough support for a UI" card . 

So ,  the only way to  see if there's enough support for a UI , is to have a border poll?  But will that  poll  ever happen?

He can rule it out all he likes, if the numbers are there then it will go through the courts. There seems to a general aim for 2030. A couple of good election results needed for nationalism between now and then to justify a poll. More pressure needs exerted on alliance and greens to stop spoofing on the subject. I see the UK government being a neutral observer on the matter as promised is horse shit

[RedHand88]

Those goalposts  moving further away

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67020960

The Brits will always  play the "not enough support for a UI" card . 

So ,  the only way to  see if there's enough support for a UI , is to have a border poll?  But will that  poll  ever happen?

He also thinks he is going to renegotiate the Withdrawal agreement. So let's take anything he says with a pinch of salt.

[imtommygunn]

He's basically a a Tory and we all know how much they can be trusted.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

What a ****.

[Rossfan]

Those goalposts  moving further away

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67020960

The Brits will always  play the "not enough support for a UI" card . 

So ,  the only way to  see if there's enough support for a UI , is to have a border poll?  But will that  poll  ever happen?

He also thinks he is going to renegotiate the Withdrawal agreement. So let's take anything he says with a pinch of salt.

+1.

[Rossfan]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/more-people-in-ni-would-vote-to-stay-part-of-uk-if-border-poll-was-called/a1750577562.html

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Disappointed with those figures to be honest. Lucid talk is pretty accurate unlike the NILT survey or the Pete Shirlow bog roll survey from Liverpool university. A few yrs ago lucid talk and lord Ashcroft had UI polling well into the 40's and actually even ahead of UK in some polls. The breakdown shows UI more popular in the under 45's but it's the over 55's were all the damage is done with only 28% pro UI. I would say sure just a bit more of a wait but the worrying thing is I'm not far off that 55 age bracket myself . With the don't knows out it's 56 44 so still pretty tight and hard to call on the day. Interesting to see the green voters are overwhelmingly nationalist whereas alliance is a bit more of a mixed bag

[From the Bunker]

Disappointed with those figures to be honest. Lucid talk is pretty accurate unlike the NILT survey or the Pete Shirlow bog roll survey from Liverpool university. A few yrs ago lucid talk and lord Ashcroft had UI polling well into the 40's and actually even ahead of UK in some polls. The breakdown shows UI more popular in the under 45's but it's the over 55's were all the damage is done with only 28% pro UI. I would say sure just a bit more of a wait but the worrying thing is I'm not far off that 55 age bracket myself . With the don't knows out it's 56 44 so still pretty tight and hard to call on the day. Interesting to see the green voters are overwhelmingly nationalist whereas alliance is a bit more of a mixed bag

The important bit is ''A united Ireland is the most popular choice for the under-45s with support for the Union strongest amongst the middle-aged and pensioners''.

[Milltown Row2]

Its the not knowing for that age bracket which doesn't surprise me, they probably feel that it will impact on them  later in life, pensions and the like.

Its about the details, if you do a poll, knowing that the concerns you have won't affect your heath and retirement then the figures will change, hopefully.

Not confident that I'll see a UI. Very slow moving