There are still county finals being played in late October.
The problem lies with counties not starting their championships in time. FFS the Wicklow football final was Sat and they must have been the first county out of the All Ireland?
It will always be the case until the provincial club championships are also moved forward in the calendar. Would make no sense to have your county champions sitting on their holes for a month.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 29, 2018, 11:48:26 AM
It will always be the case until the provincial club championships are also moved forward in the calendar. Would make no sense to have your county champions sitting on their holes for a month.
Was just about to say the same, why would you finish up your club championship in August/September to be left waiting until late October or early November for your next game? Lack of joined up thinking as usual.
That will be next, though it should have happened at the same time, county boards take longer to change things
I attended the USHC Club semi yesterday and was remarking that the finals in all three grades in previous years used to be held on the last Sunday of October with the football club provincial series starting on the first Sunday in November. So the Ulster Council have put back the fixture dates by two weeks making the situation more of a problem with the finals now on November 11th. They haven't changed the schedule for the football IF or SFC only the JFC to allow the "twining" final on 8/9th December. Is this concept devised to eliminate an AIQF with the British champions?
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 29, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
The problem lies with counties not starting their championships in time. FFS the Wicklow football final was Sat and they must have been the first county out of the All Ireland?
+1, it is a total crock of sh*t.
Then, instead of pointing the finger at the Wicklow county board, the CPA cite something about April and player health. FFS.
What will be next? Croke Park needs to give them grant or research money like the GPA, you hear shag all from the latter any more.
The GAA had an exclusive shop window in September and gave it up for what ?
CPA seem to be failing here. Haven't seen them gain any traction or do anything of note other than their launch.
As someone said above Wicklow an example of a county that exited early yet their championship is only finished. Antrim, Armagh, a few other examples. But why have your championship decided early and then wait idly for an opponent? Would the leagues in these counties be finished? And if not, why not?
Quote from: trailer on October 29, 2018, 02:01:51 PM
CPA seem to be failing here. Haven't seen them gain any traction or do anything of note other than their launch.
As someone said above Wicklow an example of a county that exited early yet their championship is only finished. Antrim, Armagh, a few other examples. But why have your championship decided early and then wait idly for an opponent? Would the leagues in these counties be finished? And if not, why not?
Leagues finished in Antrim now, some games that have been moved as such will finish off over the next couple of weeks, but nothing other than dead rubber games..
Its up to the counties to arrange the fixtures at the start of the year to tie in with the Ulster competitions, no county is going to allow their club champions to sit on their hands for a month, so arrange the fixtures to suit that..
Interesting comments coming out of Kilkenny in recent weeks with lads once gracing the field at IC level bemoaning the lack of club games now that they're not involved.
IMO that is the one negative of having the hurling in the round robin format that in counties like Kilkenny where club games were played during the old format 3/4 week gaps in the IC calendar that they now aren't able to do that being out 4 Sundays in 6 weeks.
WRT to Wicklow, unless there were a load of draws or appeals like in Galway the last few years then that doesn't make sense.
I'm sure whoever was doing their fixture planning took the date that their clubs were to enter the Leinster Club championship and pencil in the final with a two week gap prior to that. If they didn't then they need to start doing that.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 29, 2018, 04:42:34 PM
Interesting comments coming out of Kilkenny in recent weeks with lads once gracing the field at IC level bemoaning the lack of club games now that they're not involved.
IMO that is the one negative of having the hurling in the round robin format that in counties like Kilkenny where club games were played during the old format 3/4 week gaps in the IC calendar that they now aren't able to do that being out 4 Sundays in 6 weeks.
WRT to Wicklow, unless there were a load of draws or appeals like in Galway the last few years then that doesn't make sense.
I'm sure whoever was doing their fixture planning took the date that their clubs were to enter the Leinster Club championship and pencil in the final with a two week gap prior to that. If they didn't then they need to start doing that.
The problem was that they couldn't play the replay last weekend as Glenealy were playing in the county hurling final. They draw a number of players from Rathnew who were in the football final as well.
The CPA are a nothing organisation - just a few guys with a website where 2,000 or 3,000 people have registered "support". Why they should be listened to over any barstool randomer escapes me.
October is the best time of year for county finals.
The All Irelands should be on the traditional dates in September.
Quote from: Duine Eile on October 29, 2018, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 29, 2018, 11:48:26 AM
It will always be the case until the provincial club championships are also moved forward in the calendar. Would make no sense to have your county champions sitting on their holes for a month.
Was just about to say the same, why would you finish up your club championship in August/September to be left waiting until late October or early November for your next game? Lack of joined up thinking as usual.
Yes - thewobbler hit the nail on the head there. It's a difficult balancing act though as replays and other factors can blow the best laid plans apart. The measures brought in this season were iffy in their impact but at least we some sort of action. What really is needed though is a complete overhaul....one or two little amendments won't cut it.
I think the CPA are having an impact to be honest. I just believe shouting it from a megaphone is not their preferred modus operandi. All they want is to sort out the fixtures and disappear....they're not looking to make a livelyhood out of it.
The April club only thing originated with them if I recall rightly.
Bits of tweaks here and there not the best way to go sorting it out.
However if you try for one big overall new system probably take years to agree something and maybe as long again to implement.
However everyone is giving out but like the Health Service I don't see too many coming up with workable proposals.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 10:36:16 AM
The April club only thing originated with them if I recall rightly.
Bits of tweaks here and there not the best way to go sorting it out.
However if you try for one big overall new system probably take years to agree something and maybe as long again to implement.
However everyone is giving out but like the Health Service I don't see too many coming up with workable proposals.
You can't compare the Gah to the Health Service though. The association runs a national institution on a relatively small budget. And runs it quite well
The Health Service is a clusterfuck .
They should revert back to the original AIF dates until they are ready to change it properly.
The April club only thing was short-sighted from the start. For a start, compressing club games into such a short window is gambling with the weather. Clubs should have the odd county-games-free weekend each month from late February til May.
There's nothing much wrong with the GAA fixtures calendar, although there will always be an unavoidable conflict between club and county. It''s funny to see it compared to the utter disaster of the health service.
Quote from: five points on October 30, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
The April club only thing was short-sighted from the start. For a start, compressing club games into such a short window is gambling with the weather. Clubs should have the odd county-games-free weekend each month from late February til May.
There's nothing much wrong with the GAA fixtures calendar, although there will always be an unavoidable conflict between club and county. It''s funny to see it compared to the utter disaster of the health service.
Seriously? Are you for real?
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 10:36:16 AM
The April club only thing originated with them if I recall rightly.
Bits of tweaks here and there not the best way to go sorting it out.
However if you try for one big overall new system probably take years to agree something and maybe as long again to implement.
However everyone is giving out but like the Health Service I don't see too many coming up with workable proposals.
It's important to be clear on this. It was part of an overarching fixtures plan that was cherry picked out and used. It was never intended by the CPA for this on its own to be a solution.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2018, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: five points on October 30, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
The April club only thing was short-sighted from the start. For a start, compressing club games into such a short window is gambling with the weather. Clubs should have the odd county-games-free weekend each month from late February til May.
There's nothing much wrong with the GAA fixtures calendar, although there will always be an unavoidable conflict between club and county. It''s funny to see it compared to the utter disaster of the health service.
Seriously? Are you for real?
Yes I'm for real.
Seafóidín I wasn't really comparing the GAA and the HSE. Just saying the fixtures and the health service are 2 things everyone gives out about but few if any offer solutions.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 12:51:33 PM
Seafóidín I wasn't really comparing the GAA and the HSE. Just saying the fixtures and the health service are 2 things everyone gives out about but few if any offer solutions.
could they not have a meeting about the calendar and get everyone to agree to it? It can't be that complex. Jaysus.
Our seniors finished the end of September. Is that too early to finish the season?
Would a radical idea not to split the season into 3 distinct phases. Inter County, Club and Off.
Inter county March to July. Whatever competitions you want to run in whatever order you run them, knock yourselves out. Inter County teams have exclusive rights to the players. Club have no call on county players but counties can run league games etc and keep the non county player ticking over.
Club August to November. Clubs have exclusive rights over their players and are under no obligation to release them to county teams. I'd suspect county teams wouldn't be doing anything anyway. Counties free to run their championships as they see fit, feeding into a provincial and AI series.
Off Season from Nov to March where everyone can relax, eat a bit of turkey, take the misses out for a spot of dinner, go to the cinema, meet lads for a few pints.
I think the whole thing can be fixed and rather easily if they'd just sit down and do it. Yes there would be a few vested interests with their noses put out of joint (Schools, Colleges etc) but for the greater good something must be done. You only have to look at the last round of reserve fixtures in Tyrone where all but a handful were conceded as players and teams chose not to field. If something isn't done, club football will die. First the reserve teams and then after that who knows.
Quote from: five points on October 30, 2018, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 30, 2018, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: five points on October 30, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
The April club only thing was short-sighted from the start. For a start, compressing club games into such a short window is gambling with the weather. Clubs should have the odd county-games-free weekend each month from late February til May.
There's nothing much wrong with the GAA fixtures calendar, although there will always be an unavoidable conflict between club and county. It''s funny to see it compared to the utter disaster of the health service.
Seriously? Are you for real?
Yes I'm for real.
Incredulous
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 12:51:33 PM
Seafóidín I wasn't really comparing the GAA and the HSE. Just saying the fixtures and the health service are 2 things everyone gives out about but few if any offer solutions.
the problem is that no one is coming forward with ideas its that there are for too many ideas around and very few hane much in common . bet you see 3 or 4 new ones on this thread before it finishes.
which to me means there is no one great idea out there to solve everyone's problems. and solution has to be a pick and choose of the ones out there . much as it is now but to make change the solution be a clear improvement on whats presently in place
Whatever about February or March there are usually 27 weekends from the 1st weekend in April to the 1st weekend in October inclusive.
Can we not designate say 11 weekends for Inter County Championships, 11 for Clubs and 5 flexible weekends?
Should be easier when 2 tier All Ireland SFC comes in.
How you distribute those weekends would require a bit of thought but the aimed would be to have all County Finals played by 1st weekend in October.
4 weekends out of 6 in October /November for Provincial Club Championship and second half November 1st weekend in December for All Ireland Club.
We finished championship round robin games in early September.
Our junior team competitions are still at the league phase
They'll probably still be playing in December
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Whatever about February or March there are usually 27 weekends from the 1st weekend in April to the 1st weekend in October inclusive.
Can we not designate say 11 weekends for Inter County Championships, 11 for Clubs and 5 flexible weekends?
Should be easier when 2 tier All Ireland SFC comes in.
How you distribute those weekends would require a bit of thought but the aimed would be to have all County Finals played by 1st weekend in October.
4 weekends out of 6 in October /November for Provincial Club Championship and second half November 1st weekend in December for All Ireland Club.
One problem with the new setup for intercounty is more games mean more injuries.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Whatever about February or March there are usually 27 weekends from the 1st weekend in April to the 1st weekend in October inclusive.
Can we not designate say 11 weekends for Inter County Championships, 11 for Clubs and 5 flexible weekends?
Should be easier when 2 tier All Ireland SFC comes in.
How you distribute those weekends would require a bit of thought but the aimed would be to have all County Finals played by 1st weekend in October.
4 weekends out of 6 in October /November for Provincial Club Championship and second half November 1st weekend in December for All Ireland Club.
The problem with all these plans is the sheer variety of GAA competitions, at club and county level, in both codes. The overall provincial, national and county Master Fixtures plans are almost incomprehensible in their complexity.
Only a tiny minority of clubs take part in provincial Club Championships and only a subset of these take them anyway seriously. I don't think its a good idea to curtail the entire season for everyone, just to suit this minority.
Quote from: five points on October 31, 2018, 09:57:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Whatever about February or March there are usually 27 weekends from the 1st weekend in April to the 1st weekend in October inclusive.
Can we not designate say 11 weekends for Inter County Championships, 11 for Clubs and 5 flexible weekends?
Should be easier when 2 tier All Ireland SFC comes in.
How you distribute those weekends would require a bit of thought but the aimed would be to have all County Finals played by 1st weekend in October.
4 weekends out of 6 in October /November for Provincial Club Championship and second half November 1st weekend in December for All Ireland Club.
The problem with all these plans is the sheer variety of GAA competitions, at club and county level, in both codes. The overall provincial, national and county Master Fixtures plans are almost incomprehensible in their complexity.
Only a tiny minority of clubs take part in provincial Club Championships and only a subset of these take them anyway seriously. I don't think its a good idea to curtail the entire season for everyone, just to suit this minority.
Heh?? What are you talking about, sure the whole thing can be solved in a post that takes 2 minutes to type.
It's the people who are making the fixtures are stupid and know nothing about fixture making is the real problem here.
If Junior leagues are still running in November, that's not a GAA issue or a master calendar issue. It's pure ineptitude from the fixtures secretary in your county.
——
How to tie a ribbon around the club season:
1. Only knockout games (championship or league play-off) are permitted past 01 October, at all grades of club football. This measure will force secretaries and clubs to find homes for their rearranged fixtures earlier in the season. It will force clubs to play league matches without county players earlier in the season.
2. League play-off series will be scheduled for any/every weekend in October and November when no club involved in that series has a competing fixture in a county or provincial championship. I.e. no "7 day" rules here. If you're competing for a county league and a provincial championship, you play every weekend until one or both is concluded.
3. Neutral venues for end of season matches should be selected according to their playing surface, and not location of capacity.
t
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 31, 2018, 10:27:52 AM
Quote from: five points on October 31, 2018, 09:57:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Whatever about February or March there are usually 27 weekends from the 1st weekend in April to the 1st weekend in October inclusive.
Can we not designate say 11 weekends for Inter County Championships, 11 for Clubs and 5 flexible weekends?
Should be easier when 2 tier All Ireland SFC comes in.
How you distribute those weekends would require a bit of thought but the aimed would be to have all County Finals played by 1st weekend in October.
4 weekends out of 6 in October /November for Provincial Club Championship and second half November 1st weekend in December for All Ireland Club.
The problem with all these plans is the sheer variety of GAA competitions, at club and county level, in both codes. The overall provincial, national and county Master Fixtures plans are almost incomprehensible in their complexity.
Only a tiny minority of clubs take part in provincial Club Championships and only a subset of these take them anyway seriously. I don't think its a good idea to curtail the entire season for everyone, just to suit this minority.
Heh?? What are you talking about, sure the whole thing can be solved in a post that takes 2 minutes to type.
It's the people who are making the fixtures are stupid and know nothing about fixture making is the real problem here.
the real elephant in the room is no solution will fully work while intercounty players are playing club football
Quote from: rosnarun on October 31, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
tQuote from: Keyser soze on October 31, 2018, 10:27:52 AM
Quote from: five points on October 31, 2018, 09:57:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Whatever about February or March there are usually 27 weekends from the 1st weekend in April to the 1st weekend in October inclusive.
Can we not designate say 11 weekends for Inter County Championships, 11 for Clubs and 5 flexible weekends?
Should be easier when 2 tier All Ireland SFC comes in.
How you distribute those weekends would require a bit of thought but the aimed would be to have all County Finals played by 1st weekend in October.
4 weekends out of 6 in October /November for Provincial Club Championship and second half November 1st weekend in December for All Ireland Club.
The problem with all these plans is the sheer variety of GAA competitions, at club and county level, in both codes. The overall provincial, national and county Master Fixtures plans are almost incomprehensible in their complexity.
Only a tiny minority of clubs take part in provincial Club Championships and only a subset of these take them anyway seriously. I don't think its a good idea to curtail the entire season for everyone, just to suit this minority.
Heh?? What are you talking about, sure the whole thing can be solved in a post that takes 2 minutes to type.
It's the people who are making the fixtures are stupid and know nothing about fixture making is the real problem here.
the real elephant in the room is no solution will fully work while intercounty players are playing club football
Not true.
The real Elephant in the room is Replays.
Play games to a conclusion and your can draw a real schedule in January.
Think about it.
It is really that simple.
Provincial council top brass wont be happy but big deal, they arguably screwed up the schedule for decades.
Its possible to allow for a replay you know. Just one week extra. Wicklow (also Westmeath, Kildare etc) final could have been 2 weeks ago. If a draw (or bad weather) ,reply, refixture following week. If that draws then play extra time. Wicklow were out of the Championhip on June 9th. Its county boards who are creating these messes, not the central calendar. Separately they need to go back to Week 1 and Week 3 in September for the all irelands. Have the semis on consecutive Sundays, not run over a weekend. These 2 weeks exposure will be soon gobbled up the pros in other codes if they are left have them. Games need to be promoted.
Quote from: LilySavage on October 31, 2018, 12:55:15 PM
Its possible to allow for a replay you know. Just one week extra. Wicklow (also Westmeath, Kildare etc) final could have been 2 weeks ago. If a draw (or bad weather) ,reply, refixture following week. If that draws then play extra time. Wicklow were out of the Championhip on June 9th. Its county boards who are creating these messes, not the central calendar. Separately they need to go back to Week 1 and Week 3 in September for the all irelands. Have the semis on consecutive Sundays, not run over a weekend. These 2 weeks exposure will be soon gobbled up the pros in other codes if they are left have them. Games need to be promoted.
Problem with allowing replays is that it takes the certainty out of the schedule, what if there are multiple replays.
with respect to All-Irelands, they should be back to back weekends. I agree they should be on last Sunday in August first Sunday in September, or both a week later.
Having both semi-finals on one weekend great idea, and now necessary (especially in football) where some apathy has crept in, (see attendences for this years semi-finals), it would have been worse if they were on separate weekends.
Quote from: LilySavage on October 31, 2018, 12:55:15 PM
Its possible to allow for a replay you know. Just one week extra. Wicklow (also Westmeath, Kildare etc) final could have been 2 weeks ago. If a draw (or bad weather) ,reply, refixture following week. If that draws then play extra time. Wicklow were out of the Championhip on June 9th. Its county boards who are creating these messes, not the central calendar. Separately they need to go back to Week 1 and Week 3 in September for the all irelands. Have the semis on consecutive Sundays, not run over a weekend. These 2 weeks exposure will be soon gobbled up the pros in other codes if they are left have them. Games need to be promoted.
I love nothing more than to have a pop off GAA administration, when it's justified. But the Westmeath county board could not have had their finals finished any earlier, without either changing the format of the competitions and/or starting the championships in April. The clubs, speaking for their players, said they did not want April championship games. And rightly so (speaking as a player who doesn't appreciate the idea two separate seasons for the same competition). Westmeath hurlers exited the championship on July 7th - only then could championship begin, and every weekend since has had either football or hurling championship. There were no playoffs or replays. There just were not enough weekends.
The only way to properly fix fixtures is to centralise. As pointed out elsewhere, not moving the dates for provincial championships meant that moving the all-Ireland finals meant nothing to the vast majority of counties.
Rosnarun is right.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 31, 2018, 01:41:57 PM
Rosnarun is right.
We don't need a perfect solution. We need a better one that we have now.
Quote from: shark on October 31, 2018, 01:27:11 PM
The only way to properly fix fixtures is to centralise. As pointed out elsewhere, not moving the dates for provincial championships meant that moving the all-Ireland finals meant nothing to the vast majority of counties.
The Cavan Div 3 League final was recently conceded as Drumlane said they couldn't field a team on the appointed date after winning the replayed Junior Championship final and losing in the Ulster club preliminary round. Efforts to reach agreement with their opponents Killinkere came to nothing as they had a few players going to weddings on the bank holiday weekend.
Imagine some young one not long out of college sitting at a desk in Croke Park and trying to sort that one out. :)