Tailteann Cup 2022

[Dreadnought]

I am not sure why they changed that tbh.

They didn't change anything really. Only difference now is that the inaugural Tailteann winner is in it (and they managed to stay in Division 3) and the Connacht draw has messed things up a bit by guaranteeing a team that played Division 4 this year will get to a provincial final. Just happened to be the first year of it that Louth and Limerick as promoted teams got up last year, and no others below them got to finals.

[armaghniac]

Westmeath did win something to get their place, the structure of the Connacht draw is not really ideal and it will happen every few years in either Connacht or Munster unless there is clear seeding.

[onefineday]

I think it would be worthwhile putting some sort of carrot there fir the winners of div 3.  Automatic entry to the all ireland series.  Slightly unfair that s team could win div 3 and not make the all ireland series.  Even allow them a play off with the lowest ranking provincial finalist

I think as time goes on and the appeal of the TC diminishes it might be worth considering automatic promotion to d2 (if not already in it) as a carrot for winning the TC.
Could mean everyone is very invested in it, including those lower ranked D2 teams (Meath this year for example) who may end up in TC, it'd be in their interests to win to ensure they stay in D2!

[FermGael]

Really hope that Meath end up in this competition .
Would be great to see O'Rourke managing in it as he has been such a huge supporter of the competition.
He called it a massive success last year.

Competition unfortunately is flawed.
From a Fermanagh point of view it is extremely frustrating to be in the top 16 teams in the country and not to be in the All Ireland series.
Playing teams in the group stages of the All Ireland would have been great preparation for next year's division 2 and gave us an indication of what needs to be done in the off season so that we can compete in division 2.

[seafoid]

The GAA have been making the rules up for the split season as they go along and this is a good example.
They need 16 in each competition and this could include a preliminary stage.

This year there are at least 4 counties with a fair claim to Sam Maguire status , namely the 2 promoted D3 counties, Fermanagh and Cavan, last year's Tailteann  winners (Westmeath) and whichever D3/4 Connacht team reaches the final. There may also be a D3 team from Munster in the mix.

Last year there was no previous winner so the 2 promoted teams got Sam Maguire status.

It's not fair to the 2 promoted teams from d3 to be excluded because of the Provincial draws. It's too random.
Something  like allocating the 2 relegated D2 spots to provincial finalists first, then the D3 winners, would be fair. If there were more than 2 then a playoff with d2 5 and 6 would be feasible. 

[Rossfan]

System adopted overwhelmingly by Congress 2022.
Fermanagh could have qualified for Sam 2023 by winning TC last year.

[Hound]

Clearly a flaw in the competitions is allowing provincial finalists a backdoor out of the Tailteann and into the Sam Maguire. Should only be the provincial winners (and last year's Taliteann winners of course) that can skip their league placing.

[Dreadnought]

The GAA have been making the rules up for the split season as they go along and this is a good example.
They need 16 in each competition and this could include a preliminary stage.

This year there are at least 4 counties with a fair claim to Sam Maguire status , namely the 2 promoted D3 counties, Fermanagh and Cavan, last year's Tailteann  winners (Westmeath) and whichever D3/4 Connacht team reaches the final. There may also be a D3 team from Munster in the mix.

Last year there was no previous winner so the 2 promoted teams got Sam Maguire status.

It's not fair to the 2 promoted teams from d3 to be excluded because of the Provincial draws. It's too random.
Something  like allocating the 2 relegated D2 spots to provincial finalists first, then the D3 winners, would be fair. If there were more than 2 then a playoff with d2 5 and 6 would be feasible.

I have to agree that they messed the setup of this. There needed to be some controls in place. Be it seeding in provincials, or at least guaranteeing Div3 winners being in it. The simple fact is that no one knows rightly what is actually going on. I've seen multiple articles on national papers that state that Div3 winners will go into Sam if Westmeath get to a Leinster final. That's completely wrong, and supposedly this was said to them from Croke Park, so someone there engaging with the media doesn't know fully.

We're not dealing like with like year on year. Last year was a clean split, the Div 1/2 teams for 2023 in Sam, the rest in Tailteann. That meant we were guaranteed a Div 3/4 team winning Tailteann and playing down there the following year, leaving the possibility that they won't be promoted the following season. Which is what has happened with Westmeath. You're now therefore in Year 2, which you'll likely have the situation where a Division 2 team from next year wins it (be it the 2 promoted teams, or likes of Meath if another get to a final), and potential for them to hold a position if they get relegated. It'll take time for this to wash through properly, but their inability to set this up properly really does affect teams who simply don't know what'll happen from year to year.

[Rossfan]

Clearly a flaw in the competitions is allowing provincial finalists a backdoor out of the Tailteann and into the Sam Maguire. Should only be the provincial winners (and last year's Taliteann winners of course) that can skip their league placing.

Agree with you.
It should be last year's Sam and TC winners and the 4 Provincial Champions (i.e  teams who won Championships in  previous 12 months) plus 10 highest NFL finishers.

Meanwhile no need to listen/read incorrect media waffle about the formats...read Mod5's posts on this forum taken from the T.O.

[armaghniac]

Clearly a flaw in the competitions is allowing provincial finalists a backdoor out of the Tailteann and into the Sam Maguire. Should only be the provincial winners (and last year's Taliteann winners of course) that can skip their league placing.

This is especially true if they draw means that you only have to play Tailteann cup teams to get to the Provincial final.

[Hound]

I have to agree that they messed the setup of this. There needed to be some controls in place. Be it seeding in provincials, or at least guaranteeing Div3 winners being in it. The simple fact is that no one knows rightly what is actually going on. I've seen multiple articles on national papers that state that Div3 winners will go into Sam if Westmeath get to a Leinster final. That's completely wrong, and supposedly this was said to them from Croke Park, so someone there engaging with the media doesn't know fully

But if Westmeath get to a Leinster final, they move form 4th seeds to 2nd seeds, so that surely does open up an extra 4th seed spot?

[Rossfan]

No.
Lowest 3rd seeds becomes a 4th seed.

[Dreadnought]

I have to agree that they messed the setup of this. There needed to be some controls in place. Be it seeding in provincials, or at least guaranteeing Div3 winners being in it. The simple fact is that no one knows rightly what is actually going on. I've seen multiple articles on national papers that state that Div3 winners will go into Sam if Westmeath get to a Leinster final. That's completely wrong, and supposedly this was said to them from Croke Park, so someone there engaging with the media doesn't know fully

But if Westmeath get to a Leinster final, they move form 4th seeds to 2nd seeds, so that surely does open up an extra 4th seed spot?

No. As they're already in the 16 in Sam, all they're doing is improving their seeding from 4th to 1st or 2nd. It doesn't create a new place, it just goes to the next best on League ranking.

I get the confusion in it though. Them getting to a final means a final place less for a top 14 team, who'll then grab it by League placing anyway.

The qualification is 8 provincial finalists, the Tailteann Cup winner, and next 7 in League

[Dreadnought]

Clearly a flaw in the competitions is allowing provincial finalists a backdoor out of the Tailteann and into the Sam Maguire. Should only be the provincial winners (and last year's Taliteann winners of course) that can skip their league placing.

I don't agree actually. With your logic here, you're putting more weight on League results than actual Championship results in the previous 3 weeks in that actual Championship. Championship is the main competition, and that should be rewarded so. A team getting to a final should be rewarded for having a good year.

I will quantify that by saying the draws should be seeded to prevent a Division 4 team getting to a final by not playing anyone decent, like Connacht this year. Seed the draws, and if you then make it through to a final by beating quality teams, then you fully deserve your place there

[seafoid]

Clearly a flaw in the competitions is allowing provincial finalists a backdoor out of the Tailteann and into the Sam Maguire. Should only be the provincial winners (and last year's Taliteann winners of course) that can skip their league placing.

Agree with you.
It should be last year's Sam and TC winners and the 4 Provincial Champions (i.e  teams who won Championships in  previous 12 months) plus 10 highest NFL finishers.

Meanwhile no need to listen/read incorrect media waffle about the formats...read Mod5's posts on this forum taken from the T.O.

That doesn't really help because of the overlap. In most years last year's all Ireland winner will be from D1 and the 4 provincial winners will be from the top 10 in the League. So you will have 5 free slots. There needs to be a clear definition for D3 top 2 . They can't be subject to the randomness of the Connacht draw.