Sam Maguire permutations

[twohands!!!]

The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.

People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.

[clarshack]

Group 2 likely to be Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath.
What venue would we play Armagh at?

[clarshack]

Leinster (if Dublin) and Ulster winners (if Derry) should top their groups while Group 1 top spot is between Kerry and Mayo.

[Armagh18]

The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.

People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.

True, but not the end of the world either.  Would have put money before a draw being made that ourselves and Mayo will be playing in the prelim round as neither county ever does things the simple way lol

[ONeill]

May 21st/22nd (First-named team at home): Connacht winner v Tyrone; Ulster runner-up v Westmeath

June 3rd/4th (First-named team at home): Tyrone v Ulster runner-up; Westmeath v Connacht winner

June 17th/18th (Neutral venue): Connacht winner v Ulster runner-up; Tyrone v Westmeath

[twohands!!!]

The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.

People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.

True, but not the end of the world either.  Would have put money before a draw being made that ourselves and Mayo will be playing in the prelim round as neither county ever does things the simple way lol

Not the end of the world but will make winning Sam far far harder.
The preliminary quarter-finals are a week after the last group game and then the quarter-finals are the weekend after that playing against a side that won their group and had the weekend of the prelminary quarter-finals off.
I'll be very surprised if the winner of Sam isn't one of the four group winners.

[An Watcher]

If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group.  Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?

[twohands!!!]

(1/2) Kerry 7/4 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2 9/4
(1/2) Galway 11/2 13/2
(3) Mayo 7/1 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1 11/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1 18/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1 22/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1 40/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1 50/1
(4) Cork 80/1 100/1
(4) Kildare 80/1 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1 250/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1 500/1

Odds to win pre and post draw.
Teams whose odds shortened got a good draw. Dublin/Derry/Roscommon/Monaghan/Clare/Sligo
Teams whose odds lengthened got a bad draw. Galway/Armagh/Tyrone/Cork

[Hound]

Assuming the favs all win the provinces (Derry favs in Ulster), the first round of fixtures would be (first named having home advantage):

May 20/21
1: Kerry v Mayo
2: Galway v Tyrone
3: Sligo v Kildare
4: Clare v Donegal

May 27/28
1: Louth v Cork
2: Armagh v Westmeath
3: Dubs v Rossies
4: Derry v Monaghan

Kerry, Clare, Galway, Sligo already knew they were out on May 20/21, so the reason for the early draw is to let the others know when they'll be out.

[weareros]

If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group.  Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?

Open draw - a second will play a 3rd from another group, winner qualifying for the last 8, where they will meet a group winner (but not the group winner of their group).

[twohands!!!]

If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group.  Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?

Will be a draw to determine this.

[Hound]

If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group.  Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?

Open draw - a second will play a 3rd from another group, winner qualifying for the last 8, where they will meet a group winner (but not the group winner of their group).

Preliminary Quarter-Finals

24-25.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four second-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play at home against the four third-placed teams, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.

Home Venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee.

Quarter-Finals

01-02.07.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four first-place teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play against the four Preliminary Quarter-Finals winners, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.

[An Fhairche Abu]

The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.

People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.

This is so true, topping the group is vital to get that two week break to a q final and to avoid the other group winners in the draw.
I'd go so far as to say that whoever are the four teams that top their respective groups, the eventual winners of Sam are going to come from that cohort. Not to say a 2nd or 3rd placed team can't do it but going week in week out playing win or go home games will stretch squads and any injury niggles to the limit, the odds just get longer and longer.

[seafoid]

The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.

People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.

This is so true, topping the group is vital to get that two week break to a q final and to avoid the other group winners in the draw.
I'd go so far as to say that whoever are the four teams that top their respective groups, the eventual winners of Sam are going to come from that cohort. Not to say a 2nd or 3rd placed team can't do it but going week in week out playing win or go home games will stretch squads and any injury niggles to the limit, the odds just get longer and longer.

Surely there would be similar odds to a team from the qualifiers winning Sam in the old days

[full moon]

Not hugely exciting for the neutral I doubt Clare Sligo or Westmeath win a match and Cork and Louth will play off for 3rd.

Group 4 in particular with the Ulster teams you know those games won't be hugely exciting.