https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0411/1376399-championship-permutations-field-for-sam-taking-shape/
The basics are:
• 16 teams will qualify for the seeded four-team groups that comprise the All-Ireland SFC group stages.
• Eight of those places are reserved for the provincial finalists. The next eight come from the final league rankings, which take promotion/relegation and league finals into account.
• Although ranked 20th after the league, as last year's Tailteann Cup winners, Westmeath will take one of the 16 places.
There is some confusion that if Westmeath reached the Leinster final that would somehow open up another spot, but a place is only reserved for the Tailteann Cup winners if they haven't already qualified. So, Westmeath will be taking the place of a higher-ranked team regardless and making the Leinster final would just mean a higher seeding for them in the group phase.
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh.
Clare's Munster quarter-final win over Cork on Sunday means that the Banner (17th) or their semi-final opponents Limerick (18th) will take one of the 16 Sam Maguire spots. History-makers New York or Sligo (23rd) will take another, as will Westmeath .
That means Division 2 side Meath are now effectively ranked 17th and will have to reach the Leinster final to make the All-Ireland series.
Kildare (now 16th) would drop to the Tailteann Cup if the Royals (or Offaly) did make the Leinster decider, unless the Lilywhites also reached the provincial final by coming through the side of the draw containing Dublin. In that somewhat unlikely scenario, Cork would be the team to miss out.
Even if Louth or Westmeath take care of their Leinster rivals, Kildare also have to worry about Cavan or Fermanagh reaching the Ulster final, and the more remote prospect of Tipperary shocking Kerry in Munster.
Kildare will therefore be hoping Derry get off to a good start in their Ulster SFC defence against Fermanagh on Saturday but we can expect a few more twists before the final line-ups for the summer are confirmed.
If we were somehow to end up with both a Cavan v Fermanagh Ulster final and a Meath-Kildare Leinster decider then even Donegal, just relegated from Division 1, would end up in the Tailteann Cup.
League champions Mayo will be in the All-Ireland series, as third seeds, despite their defeat to Roscommon but the seven other teams who lost at the weekend will definitely play in the Tailteann: Antrim, Carlow, Leitrim, London, Longford, Waterford and Wexford.
The 17-team tournament (Kilkenny play in the JFC) is being played on a similar format to the Sam Maguire: four four-team groups, with the group winners advancing directly to quarter-finals. The four second-placed teams and three best third-placed teams, plus New York, will then contest preliminary quarter-finals.
However, if New York beat Sligo, then the Exiles will participate in the All-Ireland series instead and one of the Tailteann Cup groups will contain five teams, with all four third-placed teams reaching preliminary quarter-finals.
I think the 4 provincial champions deserve the no 1 seed ranking but all other qualifiers should be seeded on their league ranking is Sligo NY Limerick or Clare should carry 4th seed rankings.
Agree with that ballagh.
This year could see 4 Tailteann teams as second seeds.
Teething problems
As it stands now the 3rd seeds will be Mayo, the loser of Ros/Galway, Tyrone and the loser of Derry/Monaghan unless Tipp beat Kerry or Dubs don't reach Leinster final. If dubs don't reach Leinster final then Derry would have to beat Monaghan or Dubs would be a fourth seed. Don't ask😳
Can someone clarify if it has been already sorted that number 1 seeds in ulster are grouped with number 2 seeds in leinster I think it is while the number 2 seeds in ulster will be grouped with the number 1 seeds in leinster? Similar scenario with munster and connacht?
What way do the groups work? How many qualify from the groups?
Top 2 in each play in AI quarter final?
Quote from: Gold on April 17, 2023, 12:31:31 AM
What way do the groups work? How many qualify from the groups?
Top 2 in each play in AI quarter final?
Too 1 straight through to quarter final, 2 plays 3 for the other spot
Quote from: An Watcher on April 16, 2023, 11:25:27 PM
Can someone clarify if it has been already sorted that number 1 seeds in ulster are grouped with number 2 seeds in leinster I think it is while the number 2 seeds in ulster will be grouped with the number 1 seeds in leinster? Similar scenario with munster and connacht?
Yes, it would appear that the 1 and 2 seeds are being matched from their provinces such that the provincial finalists all have 2 weeks until their 1st round robin game
20-21.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 1 (Home & Away)
(Involving Munster & Connacht Finalists)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4
27-28.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 1 (Home & Away)
(Involving Leinster & Ulster Finalists)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4
Beaten ulster finalists to face the dubs then and beaten connacht finalists to face kerry. Handy one for kerry
Quote from: giveballaghback on April 15, 2023, 02:24:26 PM
I think the 4 provincial champions deserve the no 1 seed ranking but all other qualifiers should be seeded on their league ranking is Sligo NY Limerick or Clare should carry 4th seed rankings.
I keep seeing people say this, and on initial viewing, it makes sense, but it doesn't when you look into it in like any way. At the end of the day, this is Championship and it's based on Championship. So that's where we get our top 2 seeds. It's be highly strange to seed 1 the winners, and 4 the finalists, yet stick in League placings in the middle seeds even though these sides have up to that point done poorly in Championship. Where is the sense there? Championship form has to be rewarded, and getting to the final must mean something, otherwise why bother? The League is just the backup for qualification and if you need to fall back on this after losing in the provincials, there is no way you deserve a better seeding than someone who got a final...
In Connacht and Minster it can be luck of a draw rather than merit that gets team to Finals. Leinster avoid Dublin and there's more often than not a handy route.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 17, 2023, 08:55:58 AM
In Connacht and Minster it can be luck of a draw rather than merit that gets team to Finals. Leinster avoid Dublin and there's more often than not a handy route.
And that can easily be sorted with some sort of seeding as to not lopside a draw. That can seem harsh, but is needed. Likes of Clare deserve their place as they beat Cork. Connacht draw the issue that can easily be rectified by seeding
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , it's plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , it's plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
Can see it both ways, Connacht is making a mockery of it as a division 4 team is going to be in the final having only beaten other d4 teams. They don't deserve to be in the SM and should be in the TC. Although if Down or Cavan happen to get to and Ulster final it would be harsh on them to not qualify for Sam.
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , it's plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
I hope they don't. As we saw yesterday, it's still alive if they don't actively try and kill them. It's cups where some might win who otherwise have no chance of bigger. If we have the rewards available for them, i.e. seedings, then counties will still want them. And I see no reason why we shouldn't protect them. It'll take a few years of this system (with a few tiny tweaks) to see what counties will favour. I expect they will still want to do well in provincials, to get a good seeding, than maybe sitting at home for 6 weeks and to then get a 3rd or 4th seed. The League has it's merits, I just don't see the need to gut provincial championships in order to double reward League form in the Spring. We need to be careful what we wish for here. GAA has always been about Championship, and should be that way
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 17, 2023, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , it's plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
Can see it both ways, Connacht is making a mockery of it as a division 4 team is going to be in the final having only beaten other d4 teams. They don't deserve to be in the SM and should be in the TC. Although if Down or Cavan happen to get to and Ulster final it would be harsh on them to not qualify for Sam.
If they want to retain the link between provincials and the AI series then the best workaround solution would be to seed the provincial draws. Then we would avoid a situation where a division 4 side could end up in the AI series by virtue of a lucky draw which will be in the case in Connacht this year.
How would you seed Leinster?
1 Dublin
2 the rest?
Everyone is excited by yesterday's game and the Ros/Rhubarbs game. 2 games between Div 1 teams of course.
There were 3 Leinster prelim games last weekend.anyone recall them?
Does the recent Roscommon win qualify as rhubarb crumble ?
The 3rd seed permutations have been narrowed down to:
Mayo
Tyrone
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Loser of Derry/Monaghan
Quote from: Rossfan on April 17, 2023, 10:42:34 AM
How would you seed Leinster?
1 Dublin
2 the rest?
Everyone is excited by yesterday's game and the Ros/Rhubarbs game. 2 games between Div 1 teams of course.
There were 3 Leinster prelim games last weekend.anyone recall them?
Well you still had 2 other teams from Leinster who finished in the top 14 of the League, so they were at least in the conversation. Any other team in Leinster who get past Kildare or Meath to a final will deserve it. Seed them by who's in the top 2 divisions for the upcoming year
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 11:13:31 AM
The 3rd seed permutations have been narrowed down to:
Mayo
Tyrone
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Loser of Derry/Monaghan
One super16 group could possibly be...
Kerry (or Dub)
Armagh (Ulster final loss)
Mayo
A/N other
or
Dublin
Derry
Tyrone
A/N other
Farcical
How exactly is it farcical?
Is it not more farcical calling it "super16" ;D
Quote from: 5times5times on April 17, 2023, 11:27:23 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 11:13:31 AM
The 3rd seed permutations have been narrowed down to:
Mayo
Tyrone
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Loser of Derry/Monaghan
One super16 group could possibly be...
Kerry (or Dub)
Armagh (Ulster final loss)
Mayo
A/N other
or
Dublin
Derry
Tyrone
A/N other
Farcical
Why would it be farcical? Aren't top games what was wanted? 3 come out of the group, it'll be cutthroat. Bring it on
you can be sure that Tyrone will end up in a group of death.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 17, 2023, 10:20:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 17, 2023, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , it's plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
Can see it both ways, Connacht is making a mockery of it as a division 4 team is going to be in the final having only beaten other d4 teams. They don't deserve to be in the SM and should be in the TC. Although if Down or Cavan happen to get to and Ulster final it would be harsh on them to not qualify for Sam.
If they want to retain the link between provincials and the AI series then the best workaround solution would be to seed the provincial draws. Then we would avoid a situation where a division 4 side could end up in the AI series by virtue of a lucky draw which will be in the case in Connacht this year.
They could give the provincial winner two home games?
Or one home game and one in the province - so Derry could eg play one in Derry and one in Clones. That is a benefit worth having.
3 teams getting through in groups of 4 is nonsense really. Just means there will be loads of dead rubbers and even now we will likely have Sligo in one group making the group itself a dead rubber. Is it a money thing dragging it out with 3 teams going through?
The moaning will start about these sweet 16 groups soon enough! Once the knockout element is taken away there is a lack of jeopardy and edge. We will likely get 4 groups with Westmeath, Sligo and probably Clare getting knocked out.
The 3 out of 4 is nonsense. Did they not learn from the super 8s?
In most cases it'll be win one game and you're through.
Quote from: full moon on April 17, 2023, 12:07:35 PM
3 teams getting through in groups of 4 is nonsense really. Just means there will be loads of dead rubbers and even now we will likely have Sligo in one group making the group itself a dead rubber. Is it a money thing dragging it out with 3 teams going through?
The moaning will start about these sweet 16 groups soon enough! Once the knockout element is taken away there is a lack of jeopardy and edge. We will likely get 4 groups with Westmeath, Sligo and probably Clare getting knocked out.
I'm not a fan of the system but I think one of the reasons for 3 teams going through is to avoid dead rubbers. Every position in the group is important meaning nearly every game should have something at stake. First place important to avoid an extra match and get an easier quarter final. The teams at bottom will likely have chance to qualify right up to last day. And finishing second over third gives home advantage in the preliminary quarter final (and probably an easier game).
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2023, 12:10:29 PM
The 3 out of 4 is nonsense. Did they not learn from the super 8s?
In most cases it'll be win one game and you're through.
But that's the reason. There will be something to play for in the last round of games. 1st to go straight to quarters, 2nd for home advantage in the preliminary quarter, and 3rd and 4th will still be battling if they know that a single win might get them through. Not a fan of it myself, but I see the logic if they're going down the group route. I can't think of any set of circumstances where there will be nothing to play for in a group from top to bottom on the last day.
If they had the 3 out of 4 in the super 8s. It would have been a success, there would have been no dead rubbers as everyone would have something to play for in the final game, figure it out.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 17, 2023, 10:42:34 AM
How would you seed Leinster?
1 Dublin
2 the rest?
Everyone is excited by yesterday's game and the Ros/Rhubarbs game. 2 games between Div 1 teams of course.
There were 3 Leinster prelim games last weekend.anyone recall them?
Leinster is already seeded - the previous year's semi-finalists get byes to the quarter-finals.
In Munster the previous year's finalists get byes to the semi-finals.
In Ulster if you'd been drawn in the preliminary round in the previous two years you're exempt from being drawn in it. That meant this year - Tyrone,Fermanagh,Donegal and Down couldn't be drawn in it.
Connacht doesn't have any seeding but it has the London and New York requirement - each of the other four counties has to take turns in play them.
Basically there is a fixed schedule that rotates around of when every team has to play away in London and New York but besides that it is an open draw.
I really wouldn't be surprised if Connacht bring in seeding soon enough - it would suit the big three as it would improve the odds of being 2nd seed and for the little 4 it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to tilt the odds a bit more towards spending the summer playing in the Tailteann group stages as opposed to Sam - The one Sligo man I've met since the New York game was fairly apprehensive about the likelihood of being in the group stages for Sam. He was saying that the reality is that Sligo will be out of their depth if they end up in Sam and could take some bad damaging beatings this summer which will take the gloss of the league promotion and the Division 4 win.
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 17, 2023, 12:17:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2023, 12:10:29 PM
The 3 out of 4 is nonsense. Did they not learn from the super 8s?
In most cases it'll be win one game and you're through.
But that's the reason. There will be something to play for in the last round of games. 1st to go straight to quarters, 2nd for home advantage in the preliminary quarter, and 3rd and 4th will still be battling if they know that a single win might get them through. Not a fan of it myself, but I see the logic if they're going down the group route. I can't think of any set of circumstances where there will be nothing to play for in a group from top to bottom on the last day.
When the Super 8s were in place getting out of the group stages meant getting to a semi-final at a neutral venue.
The thing is that under the new structure getting out of the group in 3rd place isn't anything close to being a similar level of reward.
All the teams that finish 3rd will be facing a game away at the home venue of a team that finished 2nd the weekend after the groups finish up.
Whoever wins that will have their 3rd game in 3 weeks playing one of the four sides that finished first in the group the following weekend in a quarter-final - the sides who finish first get a weekend off while the 2nd v 3rd games are played. The teams who finish 2nd have to play the following weekend but they get the reward/advantage of playing at their home venue.
I think it's a very balanced almost elegant structure and it's clear that lessons were learned from the Super8s
The odds of their being any dead rubbers is vanishingly small.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 17, 2023, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 17, 2023, 12:17:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2023, 12:10:29 PM
The 3 out of 4 is nonsense. Did they not learn from the super 8s?
In most cases it'll be win one game and you're through.
But that's the reason. There will be something to play for in the last round of games. 1st to go straight to quarters, 2nd for home advantage in the preliminary quarter, and 3rd and 4th will still be battling if they know that a single win might get them through. Not a fan of it myself, but I see the logic if they're going down the group route. I can't think of any set of circumstances where there will be nothing to play for in a group from top to bottom on the last day.
When the Super 8s were in place getting out of the group stages meant getting to a semi-final at a neutral venue.
The thing is that under the new structure getting out of the group in 3rd place isn't anything close to being a similar level of reward.
All the teams that finish 3rd will be facing a game away at the home venue of a team that finished 2nd the weekend after the groups finish up.
Whoever wins that will have their 3rd game in 3 weeks playing one of the four sides that finished first in the group the following weekend in a quarter-final - the sides who finish first get a weekend off while the 2nd v 3rd games are played. The teams who finish 2nd have to play the following weekend but they get the reward/advantage of playing at their home venue.
I think it's a very balanced almost elegant structure and it's clear that lessons were learned from the Super8s
The odds of their being any dead rubbers is vanishingly small.
Haven't really given it much thought up to now but it certainly feels like it is a good system where every game takes on some significance. Certainly much better then the old super 8 groups stuck in the middle of a knock out competition.
Quote from: 5times5times on April 17, 2023, 11:27:23 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 11:13:31 AM
The 3rd seed permutations have been narrowed down to:
Mayo
Tyrone
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Loser of Derry/Monaghan
One super16 group could possibly be...
Kerry (or Dub)
Armagh (Ulster final loss)
Mayo
A/N other
or
Dublin
Derry
Tyrone
A/N other
Farcical
Seeing that AN Other is likely to be Louth, Cork, Kildare or Westmeath I'd love 2 very strong other teams in my group as qualification is likely assured just by beating or probably even drawing with one of the 4th seed minnows.
However, if Down or Cavan get to the Ulster final, Donegal get pushed into the 4th seed slot and I wouldn't fancy a group in with Derry, Tyrone and Donegal.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/
Pot 3
Mayo
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
12th ranked team
Pot 4
13th ranked team
14th ranked team
15th ranked team
16th ranked team
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 04:04:12 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/
Pot 3
Mayo
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
12th ranked team
Pot 4
13th ranked team
14th ranked team
15th ranked team
16th ranked team
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh
A lot of that is out of date already...
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 17, 2023, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 04:04:12 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/
Pot 3
Mayo
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
12th ranked team
Pot 4
13th ranked team
14th ranked team
15th ranked team
16th ranked team
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh
A lot of that is out of date already...
Yeah, the last 3rd seed will be the loser of Monaghan v Derry bar Tipp beating Kerry, which would put Kerry in as the final 3rd seed instead.
I think with Sligo/New York and Clare/Limerick guaranteed a final place plus Westmeath from the TC there are just 13 teams from the League list unless Meath make the Leinster final.
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 17, 2023, 12:34:24 PM
The one Sligo man I've met since the New York game was fairly apprehensive about the likelihood of being in the group stages for Sam. He was saying that the reality is that Sligo will be out of their depth if they end up in Sam and could take some bad damaging beatings this summer which will take the gloss of the league promotion and the Division 4 win.
London you mean and would be interesting to hear the view of Sligo posters on here and see do they feel the same. @sligoman2 @Mano @ck @magpie seanie @SLIGONIAN
As outsider looking in I would think Sligo getting the opportunity to play in their first senior provincial final 8 years and playing in the group stages (if runners up) which would include home game against a 4th seed would attract plenty of interest with their players and it's supporters.
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 17, 2023, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 04:04:12 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/
Pot 3
Mayo
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
12th ranked team
Pot 4
13th ranked team
14th ranked team
15th ranked team
16th ranked team
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh
A lot of that is out of date already...
Yeah, the last 3rd seed will be the loser of Monaghan v Derry bar Tipp beating Kerry, which would put Kerry in as the final 3rd seed instead.
I think if Kildare (overcome Laois) and bet Dublin (unlikely as it may seem), and Derry were to lose to Monaghan, that would make Dublin a potential third seed, too.
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 17, 2023, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 17, 2023, 12:34:24 PM
The one Sligo man I've met since the New York game was fairly apprehensive about the likelihood of being in the group stages for Sam. He was saying that the reality is that Sligo will be out of their depth if they end up in Sam and could take some bad damaging beatings this summer which will take the gloss of the league promotion and the Division 4 win.
London you mean and would be interesting to hear the view of Sligo posters on here and see do they feel the same. @sligoman2 @Mano @ck @magpie seanie @SLIGONIAN
As outsider looking in I would think Sligo getting the opportunity to play in their first senior provincial final 8 years and playing in the group stages (if runners up) which would include home game against a 4th seed would attract plenty of interest with their players and it's supporters.
This was after the London game but I meant the New York game as he couldn't see Sligo losing to New York in the Connacht semi-final.
I was a bit surprised at how down-hearted he was about the whole thing but I think he feared the potential of three bad beatings - the Connacht final and the two games against the first and third seeds a lot more than looking forward to the a home game against a 4th seed - which depending on how the draw turns out could be a big ask as well. They could easily end up in a situation where they will have lost four championship games in a row with their 2 wins over London and New York not really counting for much. Just thinking about it a bit an aspect we didn't discuss was that with the groups likely to be tight enough and the importance of qualifying 1st over 2nd over 3rd every team they play will be keen to get as big a winning margin as possible. Sligo's last group game (assuming they are a number 2 seed) would be a game against a 1 seed[ say Dublin, Kerry or the Ulster winner] who could well be in a situation where the final placings come down to the score difference. That could potentially get ugly especially if Sligo are after three losses in a short period of time and have picked up a few injuries.
Why lads do you make this hard, nobody beating Dublin in Leinster, and the same for Kerry in Munster. So work out your seedings from there.
What's the make up of these games?
Is it 1st seed v 4th first?
Quote from: sam03/05 on April 17, 2023, 10:40:27 PM
What's the make up of these games?
Is it 1st seed v 4th first?
Schedule of games
May 20/21 or May 27/28: Round 1 (Home & Away)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4
June 3/4: Round 2 (Home & Away)
Seed 3 v Seed 2
Seed 4 v Seed1
June 17/18: Round 3 (Neutral)
Seed 1 v Seed 2
Seed 3 v Seed 4
At the moment the 4 1st seeds and 4 2nd seed are going to come from these 8 lines
Roscommon/Galway
Sligo/New York
Kerry/Tipperary
Clare/Limerick
Offaly/Meath/Westmeath/Louth
Wicklow/Kildare/Laois/Dublin
Derry/Monaghan
Down/Donegal/Cavan/Armagh
The third seed situation is
Mayo
the loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
one from Kerry/Monaghan/Dublin/Derry
The fourth seed situation is less clear yet.
Westmeath will take one of the spots if they don't get to the Leinster final.
the other three will be from Monaghan/Dublin/Derry/Armagh/Donegal/Louth/Cork/Kildare/Meath/Cavan
if Westmeath get to the Leinster final it will be four from Monaghan/Dublin/Derry/Armagh/Donegal/Louth/Cork/Kildare/Meath/Cavan
This weekend with all the games on will clarify things further.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 17, 2023, 10:19:58 PM
Why lads do you make this hard, nobody beating Dublin in Leinster, and the same for Kerry in Munster. So work out your seedings from there.
This doesn't really clear up all that much but if you assume Dublin win Leinster and Kerry win Munster
Seeds 1 - Dublin and Kerry
Seeds 2 - one of Offaly/Meath/Westmeath/Louth and one of Clare/Limerick
2 first seeds and 2 2nd seeds from this 4 lines.
Derry/Monaghan
Down/Donegal/Cavan/Armagh
Roscommon/Galway
Sligo/New York
The third seed situation is
Mayo
the loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
one from Monaghan/Derry
The fourth seed situation is a bit more clear but still a lot to be decided.
Westmeath will take one of the spots if they don't get to the Leinster final.
the other three will be from Armagh/Donegal/Louth/Cork/Kildare/Meath/Cavan
if Westmeath get to the Leinster final it will be four from Armagh/Donegal/Louth/Cork/Kildare/Meath/Cavan
Quote from: weareros on April 17, 2023, 07:59:36 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 17, 2023, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 04:04:12 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/
Pot 3
Mayo
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
12th ranked team
Pot 4
13th ranked team
14th ranked team
15th ranked team
16th ranked team
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh
A lot of that is out of date already...
Yeah, the last 3rd seed will be the loser of Monaghan v Derry bar Tipp beating Kerry, which would put Kerry in as the final 3rd seed instead.
I think if Kildare (overcome Laois) and bet Dublin (unlikely as it may seem), and Derry were to lose to Monaghan, that would make Dublin a potential third seed, too.
If Dublin don't make the Leinster final, I can't see how they can be anything but 4th seeds?
Mayo, Tyrone, the loser of the Galway/Roscommon and the loser of Derry/Monaghan all ahead of Dublin in league placings so taking the 3rd seed spots.
The loser of Derry/Monaghan would even drop to 4th seed if Tipp beat Kerry.
Despite the div 2 final, Derry placed above Dublin in league rankings so would take 3rd seed ahead of Dublin if it came to it.
The one and only point to the non div 1 league finals was to rank teams for all Ireland series, this Dublin are ranked ahead of Derry and Cavan ahead of Fermanagh. Similarly, mayo ahead of Galway, but if Galway had won, they would have been ranked ahead of mayo.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the obvious changed needed here is to rank provincial winners as seed 1, whilst allowing provincial final losers to progress to All Ireland series, seeding should be based entirely on league placings for non provincial winners.
There might even be an argument for seeding provincial winners based on league placings too.
Could be groups like this:
Seed 1, seed 16, seed 12, seed 8 all in one group and so on.
That would really make league placings worth fighting for and massively ramp up the connection between league and championship.
The big negative would be that the gaa would miss out on a great opportunity to draw balls from bowls and we all know how they like be to at that!!!
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 11:46:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 17, 2023, 07:59:36 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on April 17, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 17, 2023, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 04:04:12 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/
Pot 3
Mayo
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Tyrone
12th ranked team
Pot 4
13th ranked team
14th ranked team
15th ranked team
16th ranked team
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh
A lot of that is out of date already...
Yeah, the last 3rd seed will be the loser of Monaghan v Derry bar Tipp beating Kerry, which would put Kerry in as the final 3rd seed instead.
I think if Kildare (overcome Laois) and bet Dublin (unlikely as it may seem), and Derry were to lose to Monaghan, that would make Dublin a potential third seed, too.
If Dublin don't make the Leinster final, I can't see how they can be anything but 4th seeds?
Mayo, Tyrone, the loser of the Galway/Roscommon and the loser of Derry/Monaghan all ahead of Dublin in league placings so taking the 3rd seed spots.
The loser of Derry/Monaghan would even drop to 4th seed if Tipp beat Kerry.
Despite the div 2 final, Derry placed above Dublin in league rankings so would take 3rd seed ahead of Dublin if it came to it.
That's not the way it works. The league final winner places higher, so Dublin above Derry in this case
Quote from: onefineday on April 18, 2023, 12:03:00 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the obvious changed needed here is to rank provincial winners as seed 1, whilst allowing provincial final losers to progress to All Ireland series, seeding should be based entirely on league placings for non provincial winners.
There might even be an argument for seeding provincial winners based on league placings too.
Could be groups like this:
Seed 1, seed 16, seed 12, seed 8 all in one group and so on.
That would really make league placings worth fighting for and massively ramp up the connection between league and championship.
The big negative would be that the gaa would miss out on a great opportunity to draw balls from bowls and we all know how they like be to at that!!!
Can't agree with this. It makes no sense to not seed the provincial finalists too. It is Championship, yet you want to use seeding from 2 months before than the final which is that week and has been based on actual Championship results? You're overly rewarding teams for doing fine in league, but getting knocked out early in provincials. The League is only used to fill up the last 7 positions which have not been filled by Championship, so they get the last seedings. No way they should be getting higher than actual championship performances when it's a fall back to fill positions, not the main driver.
Also, when the final pairings are set, this then allows them to do the draw as they know then that the 1st and 2nd seeds will be from the finalists, and can draw the other 8 3rd and 4th seeds as they'll be known. It doesn't have to wait until the final results are known to then apply your seeding logic
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 18, 2023, 08:52:06 AM
Quote from: onefineday on April 18, 2023, 12:03:00 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the obvious changed needed here is to rank provincial winners as seed 1, whilst allowing provincial final losers to progress to All Ireland series, seeding should be based entirely on league placings for non provincial winners.
There might even be an argument for seeding provincial winners based on league placings too.
Could be groups like this:
Seed 1, seed 16, seed 12, seed 8 all in one group and so on.
That would really make league placings worth fighting for and massively ramp up the connection between league and championship.
The big negative would be that the gaa would miss out on a great opportunity to draw balls from bowls and we all know how they like be to at that!!!
Can't agree with this. It makes no sense to not seed the provincial finalists too. It is Championship, yet you want to use seeding from 2 months before than the final which is that week and has been based on actual Championship results? You're overly rewarding teams for doing fine in league, but getting knocked out early in provincials. The League is only used to fill up the last 7 positions which have not been filled by Championship, so they get the last seedings. No way they should be getting higher than actual championship performances when it's a fall back to fill positions, not the main driver.
Also, when the final pairings are set, this then allows them to do the draw as they know then that the 1st and 2nd seeds will be from the finalists, and can draw the other 8 3rd and 4th seeds as they'll be known. It doesn't have to wait until the final results are known to then apply your seeding logic
It does when one of them will be either Sligo or New York.
The provincial championships need to be seeded also for the current system to work. Connacht allowing a system where the three strongest teams are on one side of the draw is nuts and just means that the final will be a damp squib. It means a team outside the top 20 is guaranteed a place in the super 16s and means that two of the strongest teams in the country (based on league standings) go into the group stages as a lower seed.
For the sake of the integrity of the provinces alone (never mind the Super 16s), the provincial championships should be seeded. Obviously this is more important in Munster, Connacht and to a lesser extent Leinster.
Quote from: APM on April 18, 2023, 09:30:36 AM
The provincial championships need to be seeded also for the current system to work. Connacht allowing a system where the three strongest teams are on one side of the draw is nuts and just means that the final will be a damp squib. It means a team outside the top 20 is guaranteed a place in the super 16s and means that two of the strongest teams in the country (based on league standings) go into the group stages as a lower seed.
For the sake of the integrity of the provinces alone (never mind the Super 16s), the provincial championships should be seeded. Obviously this is more important in Munster, Connacht and to a lesser extent Leinster.
There was a lack of joined up thinking wrt this year. I presume it will be fixed before next season.
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 18, 2023, 09:20:10 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 18, 2023, 08:52:06 AM
Quote from: onefineday on April 18, 2023, 12:03:00 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the obvious changed needed here is to rank provincial winners as seed 1, whilst allowing provincial final losers to progress to All Ireland series, seeding should be based entirely on league placings for non provincial winners.
There might even be an argument for seeding provincial winners based on league placings too.
Could be groups like this:
Seed 1, seed 16, seed 12, seed 8 all in one group and so on.
That would really make league placings worth fighting for and massively ramp up the connection between league and championship.
The big negative would be that the gaa would miss out on a great opportunity to draw balls from bowls and we all know how they like be to at that!!!
Can't agree with this. It makes no sense to not seed the provincial finalists too. It is Championship, yet you want to use seeding from 2 months before than the final which is that week and has been based on actual Championship results? You're overly rewarding teams for doing fine in league, but getting knocked out early in provincials. The League is only used to fill up the last 7 positions which have not been filled by Championship, so they get the last seedings. No way they should be getting higher than actual championship performances when it's a fall back to fill positions, not the main driver.
Also, when the final pairings are set, this then allows them to do the draw as they know then that the 1st and 2nd seeds will be from the finalists, and can draw the other 8 3rd and 4th seeds as they'll be known. It doesn't have to wait until the final results are known to then apply your seeding logic
It does when one of them will be either Sligo or New York.
And there's a very easy fix for that. Seed the provincial draws (for the very rare occasion is works like this in Connacht). Taking away the rewarding of Championship form is hardly the answer
Quote from: APM on April 18, 2023, 09:30:36 AM
The provincial championships need to be seeded also for the current system to work. Connacht allowing a system where the three strongest teams are on one side of the draw is nuts and just means that the final will be a damp squib. It means a team outside the top 20 is guaranteed a place in the super 16s and means that two of the strongest teams in the country (based on league standings) go into the group stages as a lower seed.
For the sake of the integrity of the provinces alone (never mind the Super 16s), the provincial championships should be seeded. Obviously this is more important in Munster, Connacht and to a lesser extent Leinster.
That's it exactly. The easier fix is already there. There's enough teams in each province in the top 2 divisions, that if seeded and if a D3/4 team makes it through, they'll have had to beat at least one of those teams, thereby earning the right to be up there.
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 18, 2023, 09:20:10 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 18, 2023, 08:52:06 AM
Quote from: onefineday on April 18, 2023, 12:03:00 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the obvious changed needed here is to rank provincial winners as seed 1, whilst allowing provincial final losers to progress to All Ireland series, seeding should be based entirely on league placings for non provincial winners.
There might even be an argument for seeding provincial winners based on league placings too.
Could be groups like this:
Seed 1, seed 16, seed 12, seed 8 all in one group and so on.
That would really make league placings worth fighting for and massively ramp up the connection between league and championship.
The big negative would be that the gaa would miss out on a great opportunity to draw balls from bowls and we all know how they like be to at that!!!
Can't agree with this. It makes no sense to not seed the provincial finalists too. It is Championship, yet you want to use seeding from 2 months before than the final which is that week and has been based on actual Championship results? You're overly rewarding teams for doing fine in league, but getting knocked out early in provincials. The League is only used to fill up the last 7 positions which have not been filled by Championship, so they get the last seedings. No way they should be getting higher than actual championship performances when it's a fall back to fill positions, not the main driver.
Also, when the final pairings are set, this then allows them to do the draw as they know then that the 1st and 2nd seeds will be from the finalists, and can draw the other 8 3rd and 4th seeds as they'll be known. It doesn't have to wait until the final results are known to then apply your seeding logic
It does when one of them will be either Sligo or New York.
And there's a very easy fix for that. Seed the provincial draws (for the very rare occasion is works like this in Connacht). Taking away the rewarding of Championship form is hardly the answer
That's a fair point too.
Edit - although, does beating Leitrim and Sligo equate championship form (NY)? Or beating London and New York? (Sligo)
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 18, 2023, 10:00:29 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 18, 2023, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 18, 2023, 09:20:10 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on April 18, 2023, 08:52:06 AM
Quote from: onefineday on April 18, 2023, 12:03:00 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but the obvious changed needed here is to rank provincial winners as seed 1, whilst allowing provincial final losers to progress to All Ireland series, seeding should be based entirely on league placings for non provincial winners.
There might even be an argument for seeding provincial winners based on league placings too.
Could be groups like this:
Seed 1, seed 16, seed 12, seed 8 all in one group and so on.
That would really make league placings worth fighting for and massively ramp up the connection between league and championship.
The big negative would be that the gaa would miss out on a great opportunity to draw balls from bowls and we all know how they like be to at that!!!
Can't agree with this. It makes no sense to not seed the provincial finalists too. It is Championship, yet you want to use seeding from 2 months before than the final which is that week and has been based on actual Championship results? You're overly rewarding teams for doing fine in league, but getting knocked out early in provincials. The League is only used to fill up the last 7 positions which have not been filled by Championship, so they get the last seedings. No way they should be getting higher than actual championship performances when it's a fall back to fill positions, not the main driver.
Also, when the final pairings are set, this then allows them to do the draw as they know then that the 1st and 2nd seeds will be from the finalists, and can draw the other 8 3rd and 4th seeds as they'll be known. It doesn't have to wait until the final results are known to then apply your seeding logic
It does when one of them will be either Sligo or New York.
And there's a very easy fix for that. Seed the provincial draws (for the very rare occasion is works like this in Connacht). Taking away the rewarding of Championship form is hardly the answer
That's a fair point too.
Edit - although, does beating Leitrim and Sligo equate championship form (NY)? Or beating London and New York? (Sligo)
I agree in this case it doesn't. It's a small failure of the way they did this, that they didn't stipulate that the provincials are seeded, in order to prevent likes of this. Now if Sligo had come through and beaten one of Mayo, Roscommon, or Galway after they were seeded on that side, then they would fully deserve it. This is the first real year of this format. There will be teething issues. No harm in them making some tweaks.
When 3 of the teams in Connacht are in Division 1 it doesn't make sense not to seed
Provincial Councils will no doubt oppose any attempt at dictating how they run their Championships.
You could of course have round robin Provincials with the 8 Finalists, Tailtean winners and 7 highest League teams playing a knock out AI Championship.
Although since its provincial council vote, I doubt Roscommon would be overly in favour in the long term as we benefit from Galway V Mayo Connacht semi finals.
Plus for next year if its the provincial finalists who are seeded that's Sligo* and potentially Galway to use the form guide but in prearranged games its Galway vs London, Mayo vs New York in the quarter finals.
Quote from: GoldCoastRossie on April 18, 2023, 10:33:17 AM
Although since its provincial council vote, I doubt Roscommon would be overly in favour in the long term as we benefit from Galway V Mayo Connacht semi finals.
Plus for next year if its the provincial finalists who are seeded that's Sligo* and potentially Galway to use the form guide but in prearranged games its Galway vs London, Mayo vs New York in the quarter finals.
Galway, Mayo and Roscommon cannot be on the same side of the draw next year because Galway and Mayo are in the pre-arranged games. So no need to seed the draw at all next year.
It's only possible in years when 2 of the 3 are drawn together in the quarter final. And even in years when that happens, the semi final draw can still keep them apart.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2023, 10:31:22 AM
Provincial Councils will no doubt oppose any attempt at dictating how they run their Championships.
You could of course have round robin Provincials with the 8 Finalists, Tailtean winners and 7 highest League teams playing a knock out AI Championship.
They could oppose, but not sure what good it'll do them. Change has happened, that train has left the station. Change with it, or the provincials go and I'd like them to stay
Quote from: westbound on April 18, 2023, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: GoldCoastRossie on April 18, 2023, 10:33:17 AM
Although since its provincial council vote, I doubt Roscommon would be overly in favour in the long term as we benefit from Galway V Mayo Connacht semi finals.
Plus for next year if its the provincial finalists who are seeded that's Sligo* and potentially Galway to use the form guide but in prearranged games its Galway vs London, Mayo vs New York in the quarter finals.
Galway, Mayo and Roscommon cannot be on the same side of the draw next year because Galway and Mayo are in the pre-arranged games. So no need to seed the draw at all next year.
It's only possible in years when 2 of the 3 are drawn together in the quarter final. And even in years when that happens, the semi final draw can still keep them apart.
It's happened three times this century (2002, 2013, 2023) that Sligo and Leitrim were in the opposite side of the draw to Mayo, Galway and Roscommon. Sligo have London when Leitrim travel to NY and vice versa, so it's no coincidence that those occurrences have all happened since NY came in. Before that you're heading back to the fifties if not earlier. Prenty hinted that the NY trips would be reviewed last week, so maybe you might find the order being rotated so to avoid that unfortunate prospect that seems to annoy so many.
Obviously it's best to go into the group stages as provincial winners , but second choice is to go in as third seeds. Especially the runners up in Ulster, after 3 hard games the loser is odds on to end up with a hot to trot 3rd seed in their group.
Quote from: Main Street on April 18, 2023, 10:22:27 PM
Obviously it's best to go into the group stages as provincial winners , but second choice is to go in as third seeds. Especially the runners up in Ulster, after 3 hard games the loser is odds on to end up with a hot to trot 3rd seed in their group.
Third seed away to a provincial champion in first game after a 5/6 week break. That's the worst case start to a group. At least runners up are playing a 4th seed and i assume have home advantage.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on April 18, 2023, 10:34:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 18, 2023, 10:22:27 PM
Obviously it's best to go into the group stages as provincial winners , but second choice is to go in as third seeds. Especially the runners up in Ulster, after 3 hard games the loser is odds on to end up with a hot to trot 3rd seed in their group.
Third seed away to a provincial champion in first game after a 5/6 week break. That's the worst case start to a group. At least runners up are playing a 4th seed and i assume have home advantage.
After the 1st game, then beat the other 2 to gain 2nd spot.
Go in as prov runner up, you are likely up against one of Mayo, Tyrone, Galway/Roscommon as third seeds, as opposed to meeting softer targets - Connacht Munster Leinster runners up
Meath are playing Offaly on Sunday and have to get to the Leinster Final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYhNHhxN0A
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/19/gaa-weekend-guide-fixtures-tv-details-team-news-and-tailteann-cup-permutations/
The final destinations of the Connacht and *Munster teams will be decided this weekend.
Kerry, Galway, Ros, Mayowestros in Sam already. Most likely be joined by Sligo and Clare.
Likely to be NY, London, Leitrim, Limerick, Waterford and Tipp in TC.
*Cork not confirmed, will be hoping for Armagh , Offaly and Wicklow wins.
Cavan are the danger for many if the division 2 teams hoping to play for the Sam maguire. If they could beat armagh I'd fancy them to beat down/donegal. Conditions will be poor tomorrow so not sure who that suits
Is it confirmed that you can't be drawn against teams that you have already played in the Provincial championship..
i.e. Clare v Cork, Monaghan v Tyrone etc.
The official GAA release said "Teams who have already met in that year's provincial final cannot be drawn to the same group"
But the provincial finalists couldn't have been in same group anyway as it is pre-ordained (Leinster Winners, Ulster Runners-Up etc.) so I don't know why that was included
Quote from: inroundthesquare on April 22, 2023, 12:17:27 PM
Is it confirmed that you can't be drawn against teams that you have already played in the Provincial championship..
i.e. Clare v Cork, Monaghan v Tyrone etc.
No.
Seed 1
Galway / Roscommon
Kerry
Dublin
Ulster Winner
Seed 2
Clare
Sligo
Ulster Runner Up
Louth / Westmeath / Meath
Seed 3
Mayo
Roscommon / Galway
Tyrone
Monaghan / Derry
Seed 4
Armagh / Donegal (or both if Down reach Ulster final)
Louth (if don't reach Leinster final)
Cork (as long as Meath don't reach Leinster final and Down don't reach Ulster Final)
Westmeath (if don't reach Leinster final)
Kildare (as long as Meath don't reach Leinster final or Down don't reach Ulster Final)
Clare get to the Munster Final and qualify for the Sam Maguire
what date do they make the draw?
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 22, 2023, 09:14:52 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 22, 2023, 09:06:50 PM
what date do they make the draw?
May 2nd I believe.
Sound , thats decent , gives time for everyone to prep and supporters time to make plans .
Few things I'm still not clear on , if ros win Connacht can we get their group even though we have played alresdy ?
Also what are the predetermined aspects , ie Connacht runners up go into which provincial winner etc ?
Louth obviously have no interest in getting tanked by Dublin in a Leinster Final.
Looking at the HT scores, Meath's name will be in the hat. Unbelievable for a county of that size and a county of such historical tradition.
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
Few things I'm still not clear on , if ros win Connacht can we get their group even though we have played alresdy ?
Also what are the predetermined aspects , ie Connacht runners up go into which provincial winner etc ?
Don't have to worry about Ros winning anything this year
Quote from: pjm on April 23, 2023, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
Few things I'm still not clear on , if ros win Connacht can we get their group even though we have played alresdy ?
Also what are the predetermined aspects , ie Connacht runners up go into which provincial winner etc ?
Don't have to worry about Ros winning anything this year
Somewhere a village is missing its idiot(s).
Pick one the usual five or six, actually now make it > six aliases.
Are Meath out of the race for Sam ?
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 07:05:38 PM
Are Meath out of the race for Sam ?
Yes, first time ever. It's a sad state of affairs for Meath football.
Seed 1
Galway
Kerry
Dublin
Ulster Winner
Seed 2
Clare
Sligo
Ulster Runner Up
Louth / Offaly
Seed 3
Mayo
Roscommon
Tyrone
Monaghan / Derry
Seed 4
Armagh (if they lose to Down)
Donegal
Louth (if they lose to Offaly)
Cork (unless Offaly & Down both win semis)
Kildare (unless either Offaly or Down win a semi)
Westmeath
Quote from: clarshack on April 23, 2023, 07:31:10 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 07:05:38 PM
Are Meath out of the race for Sam ?
Yes, first time ever. It's a sad state of affairs for Meath football.
First time ever is a bit of a confused statement. As this is only year two of this experiment.
Are Roscommon allowed to be drawn into Galway's group ? Nobody seems clear on this
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 07:57:55 PM
Are Roscommon allowed to be drawn into Galway's group ? Nobody seems clear on this
I'm not a nobody.
Afaia, Ros can be drawn v Galway.
It's only the prov finalists who can't be drawn together in the groups.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 23, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 23, 2023, 07:31:10 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 07:05:38 PM
Are Meath out of the race for Sam ?
Yes, first time ever. It's a sad state of affairs for Meath football.
First time ever is a bit of a confused statement. As this is only year two of this experiment.
I don't think it is confusing.It's the first time in their history that they can't compete for Sam as they are in a B/Intermediate competition.
Quote from: clarshack on April 23, 2023, 11:12:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 23, 2023, 07:41:53 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 23, 2023, 07:31:10 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 07:05:38 PM
Are Meath out of the race for Sam ?
Yes, first time ever. It's a sad state of affairs for Meath football.
First time ever is a bit of a confused statement. As this is only year two of this experiment.
I don't think it is confusing.It's the first time in their history that they can't compete for Sam as they are in a B/Intermediate competition.
Well they were competing for ""Sam"" Today but lost
All the years up until 1928, Meath didn't compete for Sam either.
Quote from: clarshack on April 23, 2023, 07:31:10 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 23, 2023, 07:05:38 PM
Are Meath out of the race for Sam ?
Yes, first time ever. It's a sad state of affairs for Meath football.
did you forget about every year pre 2001 that they lost a leinster championship match?
Quote from: larryin89 on April 22, 2023, 09:26:23 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 22, 2023, 09:14:52 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 22, 2023, 09:06:50 PM
what date do they make the draw?
May 2nd I believe.
Sound , thats decent , gives time for everyone to prep and supporters time to make plans .
How could they do draw May 2nd - most of the winners and losers of provincials won't have been decided
Quote from: sam03/05 on April 24, 2023, 10:34:17 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 22, 2023, 09:26:23 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 22, 2023, 09:14:52 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 22, 2023, 09:06:50 PM
what date do they make the draw?
May 2nd I believe.
Sound , thats decent , gives time for everyone to prep and supporters time to make plans .
How could they do draw May 2nd - most of the winners and losers of provincials won't have been decided
This is the GAA, don't expect it to make sense. I didn't believe it when I first heard it either but here we are.
the provincial finalists will have been decided so it could take place
Makes perfect sense to do the draw as soon as they possibly can.
Pot 1 - Ulster/Leinster/Munster/Connacht Winners
Pot 2 - Ulster/Leinster/Munster/Connacht Runners Up
Pot 3&4 teams will be confirmed by then as well
Failing to see what the issue is. Good call by the GAA to do the draw on 2nd May. It will give teams an idea of who they are facing and can prepare accordingly from there.
There isn't any coherence to the groups, apart from group 2 being poor
It shouldn't matter when a team got beaten. Tyrone and Mayo were both beaten by D1 teams.
Quote from: square_ball on April 24, 2023, 10:50:55 AM
Makes perfect sense to do the draw as soon as they possibly can.
Pot 1 - Ulster/Leinster/Munster/Connacht Winners
Pot 2 - Ulster/Leinster/Munster/Connacht Runners Up
Pot 3&4 teams will be confirmed by then as well
Failing to see what the issue is. Good call by the GAA to do the draw on 2nd May. It will give teams an idea of who they are facing and can prepare accordingly from there.
Also they should indicate the dates of the games once the teams are known, e.g. Saturday/Sunday and which weekend. This would facilitate teams, fans, and things like club game scheduling in the counties.
The Munster and Connaught finalists will be involved in matches the first weekend (20th/21st May). The Leinster/Ulster finalists will be involved in games the second weekend.
From my reading of it Kildare and Cork are in danger of dropping out if both Offaly and Down win their semi finals. Kildare will drop out if either Down or Offaly win their semi final. Of course in saying all that Kildare could guarantee their place by beating the Dubs. . .
Edit: I see that has already been pointed out by inroundthesquare on the previous page.
Makes sense to do the draw next week
As teams have to organise logistics, hotels etc as two of the games involve travel
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Quote from: square_ball on April 24, 2023, 10:50:55 AM
Makes perfect sense to do the draw as soon as they possibly can.
Pot 1 - Ulster/Leinster/Munster/Connacht Winners
Pot 2 - Ulster/Leinster/Munster/Connacht Runners Up
Pot 3&4 teams will be confirmed by then as well
Failing to see what the issue is. Good call by the GAA to do the draw on 2nd May. It will give teams an idea of who they are facing and can prepare accordingly from there.
Yes, even if teams are not known, the structure ensures the draw can be made as pot 1/2 are provincial finalists, and 3/4 are based on 7 best league seedlings apart from Westmeath. So a group could be. It's an open draw so that's no issue with teams meeting again apart from provincial finalists.
Sample group:
Provincial winner
Different province Provincial runner up
No 1 ranked league team
No 5 ranked league team
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 02:02:33 PM
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Cork footballers putting bums on seats?
That barely happens at the best of times, unless you mean there's some scheme with free tickets for tramps.
Draw being made earlier could add something extra to the provincial final but also take something away. For example if a team realises they are falling into pot 2 which has an easier pot 1 team than being the other way around then they could take their foot off the gas. Not likely to happen bit it very well could
Quote from: An Watcher on April 24, 2023, 03:47:42 PM
Draw being made earlier could add something extra to the provincial final but also take something away. For example if a team realises they are falling into pot 2 which has an easier pot 1 team than being the other way around then they could take their foot off the gas. Not likely to happen bit it very well could
A pot with Sligo as second seed and Westmeath as fourth seed would not be likely to stop a Provincial champion or a third seed like Tyrone or Mayo reaching the QFs.
Quote from: blanketattack on April 24, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 02:02:33 PM
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Cork footballers putting bums on seats?
That barely happens at the best of times, unless you mean there's some scheme with free tickets for tramps.
Back in the day Killarney and Pairc Ui Chaoimh would be full for Cork v Kerry Munster finals.
With the stadium debt in Pairc Ui Chaoimh to be paid off, they would be hoping to have Cork competitive again.
Yesterday in Tullamore there were 5,000 people for Offaly vs Meath. 25 years ago 48,000 came to Croke Park to see both teams contest the first round of the Leinster championship.
Financially juicing Dublin to such a degree has massively backfired on the balance sheets.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2023, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 24, 2023, 03:47:42 PM
Draw being made earlier could add something extra to the provincial final but also take something away. For example if a team realises they are falling into pot 2 which has an easier pot 1 team than being the other way around then they could take their foot off the gas. Not likely to happen bit it very well could
A pot with Sligo as second seed and Westmeath as fourth seed would not be likely to stop a Provincial champion or a third seed like Tyrone or Mayo reaching the QFs.
Depends on who they draw in the Prem QF if they don't top their group.
QuoteThe GAA have clarified that all four senior football finalists in Connacht and Munster will start their Sam Maguire Cup groups on the weekend of May 20/21.
In a response to a query from the Irish Examiner, it has been explained Clare, Kerry, Galway and Sligo will all play two weeks after the provincial finals on May 7.
The winners of Connacht and Munster will face third seeds at home (either Mayo, Roscommon, Tyrone plus one) in their opening game with the runners-up also at home taking on fourth seeds (either Donegal, Westmeath plus two).
However, the provinces aren't guaranteed to be paired, i.e. Munster winners with Connacht finalists and vice-versa. The victors can also be drawn in the same group as the runners-up in Leinster and Ulster. Likewise, the Connacht and Munster runners-up could find themselves in the same groups as the champions in the bigger provinces.
However, to ensure all teams have at least 13 days between their provincial final and opening Sam Maguire Cup games, there is a possibility not all group's first round games will take place on the same weekend.
For example, if Kerry win Munster and Louth finish second in Leinster and they are drawn in the same group, Jack O'Connor's side will play their first-round game at home against third seeds a week earlier than Mickey Harte's team at home to fourth seeds. All second and third round games take place over the same weekends.
The Sam Maguire Cup draw is set for Tuesday, May 2 following the completion of all provincial semi-finals this weekend.
Sam Maguire Cup dates.
May 20/21: Connacht and Munster finalists' 1st round games (Provincial winners at home v 3rd seeds; provincial runners-up at home v 4th seeds).
May 27/28: Leinster and Ulster finalists' 1st round games. Provincial winners at home v 3rd seeds; provincial runners-up at home v 4th seeds).
June 3/4: All four groups' 2nd round games (4th seeds at home v provincial winners; 3rd seeds at home v provincial runners-up).
June 17/18: All four groups' 3rd and final round games (Provincial winners v provincial runners-up at neutral venue; 3rd seeds v 4th seeds at neutral venues).
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41123461.html
Will Louth play their games at home? There could be a right crowd if Tyrone, Armagh or Mayo were there.
They should move to Pairc Tailteann just to ensure that Meath plays some part in the destination of Sam.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 02:02:33 PM
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Down too
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2023, 08:29:27 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 02:02:33 PM
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Down too
Cork footballers put feck all bums on seats. Kildare will be cheering for Armagh on Sunday, so if you get rid of Down then you get Kildare who are fairly well supported and conveniently located to get to away games.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on April 24, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 02:02:33 PM
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Cork footballers putting bums on seats?
That barely happens at the best of times, unless you mean there's some scheme with free tickets for tramps.
Back in the day Killarney and Pairc Ui Chaoimh would be full for Cork v Kerry Munster finals.
With the stadium debt in Pairc Ui Chaoimh to be paid off, they would be hoping to have Cork competitive again.
Yesterday in Tullamore there were 5,000 people for Offaly vs Meath. 25 years ago 48,000 came to Croke Park to see both teams contest the first round of the Leinster championship.
Financially juicing Dublin to such a degree has massively backfired on the balance sheets.
Those Cork-Kerry halcyon days are long gone. Last year's Cork-Kerry game in Pairc Ui Rinn didn't sell out even with the whole Pairc Ui Rinn or nowhere furore.
Quote from: blanketattack on April 24, 2023, 11:39:11 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on April 24, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 24, 2023, 02:02:33 PM
The architects of the Tailteann Cup probably didn't envisage that so quickly it could potentially have Cork, Meath and Kildare in it.
These are counties that the number crunchers want to see going well because they put bums on seats and are good revenue streams.
Cork footballers putting bums on seats?
That barely happens at the best of times, unless you mean there's some scheme with free tickets for tramps.
Back in the day Killarney and Pairc Ui Chaoimh would be full for Cork v Kerry Munster finals.
With the stadium debt in Pairc Ui Chaoimh to be paid off, they would be hoping to have Cork competitive again.
Yesterday in Tullamore there were 5,000 people for Offaly vs Meath. 25 years ago 48,000 came to Croke Park to see both teams contest the first round of the Leinster championship.
Financially juicing Dublin to such a degree has massively backfired on the balance sheets.
Those Cork-Kerry halcyon days are long gone. Last year's Cork-Kerry game in Pairc Ui Rinn didn't sell out even with the whole Pairc Ui Rinn or nowhere furore.
Yep, when Cork were contenders, these were big games. 10 years ago, they'd get 40k at them, even 5 years ago they were still hovering around 30k gates. Pairc Ui Rinn is where it's at now.
When is the draw?
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , it's plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
Not necessarily. Reaching the provincial final will still be a massive carrot for many teams so they can secure All-Ireland status. Equally some mid Div.2 teams may require a prov final to dodge TC
All 4 provinces have the chance of lower division teams in the final. I read somewhere about Offaly Louth and whether they'd actually want to get to the Leinster final as they'd get tanked by Dublin. I would say either would jump at the chance. Offaly would be in the TC without it and Louth I am sure would jump at the chance of a provincial final and they would be seeded 2nd if they got into it too. Look at Down now as well - they realistically have a chance of being in the group stages and it would probably improve them massively - I still don't think they'll beat Armagh but it wouldn't be the biggest shock ever if they did. Then there's Clare / Sligo too.
The provincial series has actually worked out well for the argument of keeping it alive.
The league isn't the final answer for ranking as this year showed.
Quote from: ck on April 25, 2023, 03:54:57 PM
When is the draw?
This Tuesday at 1pm live on GAA.ie.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/27/all-ireland-and-tailteann-cup-draws-take-place-next-tuesday-heres-how-theyll-work/
The 14 counties already confirmed for the group stages of the Tailteann Cup are: Antrim, Carlow, Cavan, Fermanagh, Laois, Leitrim, London, Longford, Meath, Tipperary, Limerick, Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow.
The remaining two counties will be known after this weekend's games. Currently, Offaly and Down occupy those spots due to their league seedings, but should either advance to their respective provincial final there would be repercussions further up the food chain.
The most vulnerable sides are Kildare (who finished fifth in Division Two) and Cork (who finished fourth in Division Two).
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2023, 06:00:43 PM
The most vulnerable sides are Kildare (who finished fifth in Division Two) and Cork (who finished fourth in Division Two).
The two great underachievers of Gaelic football.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2023, 10:59:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2023, 06:00:43 PM
The most vulnerable sides are Kildare (who finished fifth in Division Two) and Cork (who finished fourth in Division Two).
The two great underachievers of Gaelic football.
Cork have the same number of all Irelands as Meath. Fair enough, they have lost a lot of finals.
Kildare are like Mayo. They stopped winning a long time ago.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2023, 10:59:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2023, 06:00:43 PM
The most vulnerable sides are Kildare (who finished fifth in Division Two) and Cork (who finished fourth in Division Two).
The two great underachievers of Gaelic football.
Given their historic playing numbers Cork are by a distance the greatest underachievers of Gaelic football.
I think you could argue that it might possibly serve them better if they did end up in the Tailteann this year.
Cork have a fair chunk of youngsters from their U20 All-Ireland winning team around their panel who might be better served by winning a string of championship games.
It's very hard to see Cork or Kildare doing anything of significane at Sam Maguire level this year.
I'd say the bookies wouldn't exactly give you great odds on either of them losing all three games in the group stages, which would make it a pretty miserable year for both of them.
Conversely if Down and Offaly end up in the Tailteann Cup they are likely to have a far better championship than if they end up in Sam.
They'd be among the favourites in the Tailteann - both would be short odds to get out of their groups and would fancy their chances of going further in the knock-out stages.
If they end up in Sam chances are the most likely outcome for both would be three losses.
I think after the group stages of Sam you'll see some sides questioning if it is all that much of a reward getting to play at the Sam level as opposed to the Tailteann.
There's a good chance that some side is going to end up in a group where they are out of their depth and end up with 3 damaging losses.
I think it's a bit of a stuctural problem that's not going to go anywhere any time soon - basically every year the highest ranked team in the Tailteann is much more likely to have a better summer than the lowest ranked team in the Sam Maguire (and it's going to be somewhat similar for all the other 4th Seeds in Sam versus the 1st seeds in the Tailteann to a lesser degree as the gap in the rankings grows) I don't really see any way around it. It's possible that maybe if there was a 3 tier championship it would reduce this somewhat (or given their are 3 levels only increase this by a factor of two and just move these stress points elsewhere in the rankings)
You do realise that football is ranked lower in importance in most of Cork than the lowest Junior hurling grade?
At present most middle Counties see Sam as the place to be but that might change alright.
3 tiers to be the long term future??
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2023, 11:33:21 AM
You do realise that football is ranked lower in importance in most of Cork than the lowest Junior hurling grade?
At present most middle Counties see Sam as the place to be but that might change alright.
3 tiers to be the long term future??
There's still a huge swathe of Cork where football is fairly important.
Also in historic terms Cork have had absolutely massive playing numbers compared to every other county.
Only Dublin come close now but that's only a fairly recent development.
Offaly haven't reached Leinster final since 2006 and Down have only the reached the Ulster final once in the last ten years. Which would the players,management and supporters want more. To reach and play in a provincial final or not reaching it and having extended run Tailteann run?
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 28, 2023, 01:42:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2023, 11:33:21 AM
You do realise that football is ranked lower in importance in most of Cork than the lowest Junior hurling grade?
At present most middle Counties see Sam as the place to be but that might change alright.
3 tiers to be the long term future??
There's still a huge swathe of Cork where football is fairly important.
Also in historic terms Cork have had absolutely massive playing numbers compared to every other county.
Only Dublin come close now but that's only a fairly recent development.
West Cork is all football
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2023, 11:33:21 AM
You do realise that football is ranked lower in importance in most of Cork than the lowest Junior hurling grade?
At present most middle Counties see Sam as the place to be but that might change alright.
3 tiers to be the long term future??
That is not at all true Ross and I've lived down there for a long time. Mid and West of the county is majority football leaning. Duhallow (north/north west) is football predominantly. Even in the City and East of county, which is hurling leaning there are clubs like Nemo, St Finbarrs, Bishopstown, St Michaels, Aghada, Douglas, Fermoy, Mallow that are huge football clubs.
There's very little support or interest of the county team is one of the issues, whereas the hurlers are well supported usually with a big bandwagon element. When the footballers had a good spell they were well supported too and as recent as 2018 there was 38,000 at a Kerry v Cork game in Pairc ui Chaoimh.
The county board has historically always been run by hurling heads. Some of the appointments of Football managers in the last 10-15 years by the board have been ridiculous. This hasn't helped, but there's still no excuse for a lot of it.
I was discussing this with a Cork man recently and he totted it up. Reckoned there are 30 football only clubs or clubs with very little hurling in the county and another 30 where football was dominant or equal and the club were playing Intermediate football or above. That's a big base. Doesn't take into account Rugby and Soccer which are big draws but still. The problems in Cork football are structural and administrative mainly I think. Nothing to do with lack of numbers or talent.
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 28, 2023, 02:42:09 PM
Offaly haven't reached Leinster final since 2006 and Down have only the reached the Ulster final once in the last ten years. Which would the players,management and supporters want more. To reach and play in a provincial final or not reaching it and having extended run Tailteann run?
Speaking as a Down supporter, obviously would love to bate them Armagh hallions and get to an Ulster final and also qualify for Sam. You'd obviously have all to play for in an Ulster final and guaranteed at least 3 more highlly competitive games against higher level opposition.
The GAA had planned to introduce this system in 2020 but Covid got in the way
This championship is passing me by. Really no interest in it at the moment. The lack of a reward system for winning games other than getting to the Provincial final is a disgrace. Seeding should be done when all the teams qualify for the Round Robin. The round Robin is just going to be a worse version of the Super 8's. There are going to be a plethora of Dead Rubber games.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 29, 2023, 07:46:09 PM
This championship is passing me by. Really no interest in it at the moment. The lack of a reward system for winning games other than getting to the Provincial final is a disgrace. Seeding should be done when all the teams qualify for the Round Robin. The round Robin is just going to be a worse version of the Super 8's. There are going to be a plethora of Dead Rubber games.
Shouldn't be the case. Super 8s the top two progressed to the final four it was always going to produce dead rubbers.
In this upcoming group stage there should be something to play for in round 3 for every team. Be it topping the table and straight into the last 8 or looking to finish 2nd for a home play off game or even the 4th place team could still be in with a chance of play off game by winning.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 29, 2023, 07:46:09 PM
This championship is passing me by. Really no interest in it at the moment. The lack of a reward system for winning games other than getting to the Provincial final is a disgrace. Seeding should be done when all the teams qualify for the Round Robin. The round Robin is just going to be a worse version of the Super 8's. There are going to be a plethora of Dead Rubber games.
Wake me up when it's proper knockout.
There hasn't been any change to the provincial championships! You still get one chance to win it and then you are into the All Ireland series.
Losing in a provincial QF versus losing in a provincial SF never made any material difference in the previous system. One extra game, usually against a weaker team. Often that helped build up some momentum, and shure if you lose an early qualifier, then you were as well out anyway.
The biggest difference is the amount of games on pay-per-view!
If Derry win Ulster, all Division 1 (2024) teams will be either 1st Seed or 3rd Seeds.
Seed 1 are at home to Seed 3 first. Should make the first round of games interesting.
How are the groups sitting now?
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 06:15:09 PM
How are the groups sitting now?
If 4 favourites win their provincial finals
1st seeds
Galway,Dublin,Kerry,Derry
2nd seeds
Sligo,Louth,Clare,Armagh
3rd seeds
Roscommon,Monaghan,Mayo,Tyrone
4th seeds
Donegal,Kildare,Westmeath,Cork
And the fixtures.
Round 1 (first named team at home)
20-21.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
Seed 1 (Munster/Connacht Champions v Seed 3)
Seed 2 (Munster/Connacht Runners Up v Seed 4)
27-28.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
Seed 1 (Leinster/Ulster Champions v Seed 3)
Seed 2 (Leinster/Ulster Runners Up v Seed 4)
Round 2 (first named team at home)
03-04.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
Seed 3 v Seed 2
Seed 4 v Seed1
Round 3 (Neutral venues)
17-18.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
Seed 1 v Seed 2
Seed 3 v Seed 4
There is a chance of a real group of death like Dublin, Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal versus maybe a softer group of Galway, Clare, Roscommon and Westmeath
Tyrone, Sligo, Westmeath n Derry/Galway please
Quote from: An Watcher on April 30, 2023, 06:30:52 PM
Tyrone, Sligo, Westmeath n Derry/Galway please
Derry, Louth, Tyrone and Donegal please
When will all the groups be announced?
Quote from: Oraisteach on May 01, 2023, 12:00:55 AM
When will all the groups be announced?
Tuesday we think
How many teams from each group advance, one or two? Thanks for answering my questions.
The 3rd seeds are stronger than the 2nd seed which is strange
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
The 3rd seeds are stronger than the 2nd seed which is strange
Mostly because Ulster and Connacht are brutally sided at one half of the draw this year! Thems the breaks.
Quote from: Oraisteach on May 01, 2023, 12:28:38 AM
How many teams from each group advance, one or two? Thanks for answering my questions.
Three advance, one direct to the quarter final and two to preliminary quarter finals.
Given the presence of the likes of Sligo and Westmeath, who will find the going tough, the likes of Monaghan, Tyrone or Armagh are unlikely to be eliminated in the round robin, but in those knockout games. Armagh could be eliminated on their 8th game without reaching the quarter finals!
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 01, 2023, 12:34:39 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
The 3rd seeds are stronger than the 2nd seed which is strange
Mostly because Ulster and Connacht are brutally sided at one half of the draw this year! Thems the breaks.
and the fact that there are no decent teams outside the dubs and Kerry in the other 2. Having said that, I expect Louth to be tough to beat.
Last year's 4 semi Finalists looking good for winning Provincials and top seeding and likely Qtr Finalists.
Of the 2nd seeds Armagh/Derry losers should make Quarter Finals with one of the 3rd seeds not making them.
In most groups (with exception of group with Ulster runner up), whoever wins that first game between provincial champion and 3rd seed will win the group. Indeed the winner of the 1st game can likely even afford to lose a game because they will still have head to head on their likely closest rival for top spot should both only lose one game.
(1/2) Kerry 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2
(1/2) Galway 11/2
(3) Mayo 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1
(4) Cork 80/1
(4) Kildare 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1
Current bookies odds to win Sam.
Current Seeding in brackets
Nothing too surprising there.
Based on these odds the bookies expect the provincials bar Ulster to be foregone conclusions.
It will be interesting to see if there is much movement in these odds when the draw is made and then after the provincials are done.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 01, 2023, 02:34:05 PM
(1/2) Kerry 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2
(1/2) Galway 11/2
(3) Mayo 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1
(4) Cork 80/1
(4) Kildare 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1
Current bookies odds to win Sam.
Current Seeding in brackets
Nothing too surprising there.
Based on these odds the bookies expect the provincials bar Ulster to be foregone conclusions.
It will be interesting to see if there is much movement in these odds when the draw is made and then after the provincials are done.
The draw for the groups will not make much difference. I'd say that the only 4th seed with a chance of getting out of the group stage is Kildare. If the draw for preliminary quarter finals is made at the same time then you might learn something.
THe provincial finals are hardly likely to make much difference, Armagh might beat Derry and both might end up as 16/1.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2023, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 01, 2023, 02:34:05 PM
(1/2) Kerry 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2
(1/2) Galway 11/2
(3) Mayo 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1
(4) Cork 80/1
(4) Kildare 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1
Current bookies odds to win Sam.
Current Seeding in brackets
Nothing too surprising there.
Based on these odds the bookies expect the provincials bar Ulster to be foregone conclusions.
It will be interesting to see if there is much movement in these odds when the draw is made and then after the provincials are done.
The draw for the groups will not make much difference. I'd say that the only 4th seed with a chance of getting out of the group stage is Kildare. If the draw for preliminary quarter finals is made at the same time then you might learn something.
THe provincial finals are hardly likely to make much difference, Armagh might beat Derry and both might end up as 16/1.
Derry win the Ulster final and do so in the manner they beat Monaghan I'd expect their odds to be similar as Mayo. Dublin's odds looks too short and could get Ulster runner up and Mayo in their group.
Yeah, Galway are clearly better than Dublin at the moment, but none of the Galway lads have won it before and plenty of the Dubs have (multiple times) so in reality I would have them joint second favs behind Kerry. But I would have Mayo level with them too. And Ulster's best team will be bang there too (not necessarily the Ulster champions).
There's going to be a lot of abuse and negativity around the provincial finals (note that the Leinster final is more competitive than both the Connacht and Munster finals according to the bookies!) and the round robin, but I think we're going to have an awesome championship from the last 12 onwards.
1996 to 2010 there was a lot of talk and short odds on Dublin to win the All Ireland yet they didn't reach any All Ireland final in that time period. Last two years they didn't reach All Ireland final and the form they have showed this year it will be a surprise if they reach the All Ireland this July. Begs the question are Dublin now back to the level they were at 1996 to 2010 and if so punters should be placing their cash elsewhere.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 01, 2023, 09:04:06 PM
1996 to 2010 there was a lot of talk and short odds on Dublin to win the All Ireland yet they didn't reach any All Ireland final in that time period. Last two years they didn't reach All Ireland final and the form they have showed this year it will be a surprise if they reach the All Ireland this July. Begs the question are Dublin now back to the level they were at 1996 to 2010 and if so punters should be placing their cash elsewhere.
They could be back at 2010 levels? Sundays game kind of reminded me of the scare they got against Wexford that season in Leinster. Meath hammered them in the next game though that won't be happening. Louth will take any kind of win.
What's the chances though that Louth could win Leinster '13' years after the farce of 2010 while Meath languish in the Tailteann cup? That would be Karma.
Anyone able to tell me what time the draw is taking place for the groups? And if it is being broadcast live?
Quote from: jmcgdoire on May 02, 2023, 08:09:39 AM
Anyone able to tell me what time the draw is taking place for the groups? And if it is being broadcast live?
1pm. On radio 1 i think
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2023, 08:14:33 AM
Quote from: jmcgdoire on May 02, 2023, 08:09:39 AM
Anyone able to tell me what time the draw is taking place for the groups? And if it is being broadcast live?
1pm. On radio 1 i think
And GAAGO
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
The 3rd seeds are stronger than the 2nd seed which is strange
system needs tweaked imo.
Be better to give provincial winner 1st seed and all other seedings based on finishing league positions - while still allowing provincial finalists to qualify.
That would enhance the incentive in the league and provide more of a link to championship. We're always likely to get something similar due to the unbalanced nature of the provinces.
I would like to see division 3 winners in there as well. Some incentive in a league final. Division 4 is going a bit far down the ladder
Quote from: onefineday on May 02, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
The 3rd seeds are stronger than the 2nd seed which is strange
system needs tweaked imo.
Be better to give provincial winner 1st seed and all other seedings based on finishing league positions - while still allowing provincial finalists to qualify.
That would enhance the incentive in the league and provide more of a link to championship. We're always likely to get something similar due to the unbalanced nature of the provinces.
The system is still in development.
Quote from: onefineday on May 02, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2023, 12:29:19 AM
The 3rd seeds are stronger than the 2nd seed which is strange
system needs tweaked imo.
Be better to give provincial winner 1st seed and all other seedings based on finishing league positions - while still allowing provincial finalists to qualify.
That would enhance the incentive in the league and provide more of a link to championship. We're always likely to get something similar due to the unbalanced nature of the provinces.
provincial finalists should be in pot 4
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2023, 08:14:33 AM
Quote from: jmcgdoire on May 02, 2023, 08:09:39 AM
Anyone able to tell me what time the draw is taking place for the groups? And if it is being broadcast live?
1pm. On radio 1 i think
You'd think the marketing guru's in HQ would have the sense to set this draw up as a flagship event live on TV, and make something of it. Here we are on a Tuesday afternoon asking around where to watch/listen to it ... maybe I live in a bubble and have missed the PR campaign around the draw.
Group1
Kerry/Clare
Dublin/Louth
Mayo
Cork
Group 2
Galway/Sligo
Armagh/Derry
Tyrone
Westmeath
Group 3
Dublin/Louth
Galway/Sligo
Roscommon
Kildare
Group 4
Derry/Armagh
Kerry/Clare
Monaghan
Donegal
Connacht winner will probably get a tougher group than any other Connacht side eliminated earlier lol.
GAA summed up perfectly today.
Why do the draw before the Provincial finals? Stupid.
Why was it not on radio? Who is watching GAAGO at 1pm on Tuesday? f**king hell, sometimes they don't help themselves.
Connacht winner being shafted!
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
GAA summed up perfectly today.
Why do the draw before the Provincial finals? Stupid.
Why was it not on radio? Who is watching GAAGO at 1pm on Tuesday? f**king hell, sometimes they don't help themselves.
exactly ffs. Not that it matters with twitter etc these days
3 ulster counties in one group ::)
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
GAA summed up perfectly today.
Why do the draw before the Provincial finals? Stupid.
Why was it not on radio? Who is watching GAAGO at 1pm on Tuesday? f**king hell, sometimes they don't help themselves.
It was on the GAA YouTube so pretty much anyone with a phone in the country could watch it.
Also if it was on radio you'd have folk claiming the draw was rigged.
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
GAA summed up perfectly today.
Why do the draw before the Provincial finals? Stupid.
Why was it not on radio? Who is watching GAAGO at 1pm on Tuesday? f**king hell, sometimes they don't help themselves.
I wondered this myself. It's not fair, should have been done after the provincial finals.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 02, 2023, 01:18:27 PM
Connacht winner will probably get a tougher group than any other Connacht side eliminated earlier lol.
If Galway do win Connacht, that's twice in 2 years their 'reward' for winning their province has been the rotten draw against the good Ulster side. Last year, 1 of Clare, Cork
Armagh. This year, one of Clare, Louth,
Armagh/Derry
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 01:25:31 PM
Connacht winner being shafted!
One of the three winners of Munster/Connacht/Leinster were always going to get the Ulster loser.
Probably a bit unfortunate to have Tyrone in there as well but are Tyrone much worse than Mayo, Monaghan or Roscommon.
They are in a group with Westmeath who are the team with the longest odds they could have drawn.
Hardly shafted.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:26:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
GAA summed up perfectly today.
Why do the draw before the Provincial finals? Stupid.
Why was it not on radio? Who is watching GAAGO at 1pm on Tuesday? f**king hell, sometimes they don't help themselves.
It was on the GAA YouTube so pretty much anyone with a phone in the country could watch it.
Also if it was on radio you'd have folk claiming the draw was rigged.
Ack ffs they could have had live radio coverage as well as their GAAGO TV. It doesn't have to one or the other.
Whoever is in charge of marketing at GAA HQ really should be relived of their duties. They are providing ZERO value for money.
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 01:33:15 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:26:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 02, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
GAA summed up perfectly today.
Why do the draw before the Provincial finals? Stupid.
Why was it not on radio? Who is watching GAAGO at 1pm on Tuesday? f**king hell, sometimes they don't help themselves.
It was on the GAA YouTube so pretty much anyone with a phone in the country could watch it.
Also if it was on radio you'd have folk claiming the draw was rigged.
Ack ffs they could have had live radio coverage as well as their GAAGO TV. It doesn't have to one or the other.
Whoever is in charge of marketing at GAA HQ really should be relived of their duties. They are providing ZERO value for money.
Totally agree the marketing isn't great/could be better but this draw not being on radio is way way way down the list of grievances I'd have.
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
Kildare getting the Dubs at home (assuming Dubs beat Louth) is a beaut after Ryan's rant! Although not sure if Kildare have a home venue at the moment, maybe they'll nominate Croker :P
The last round is called the Neutral round, as opposed to the Croke Park round which I think it was called in Super 8. I presumed that meant Dubs wouldn't be in Croker, but seemingly there's talk the Croke Park is still on the table. That's the Dublin v Sligo (probably) game I think, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. Portlaoise a suitable alternative?
Quote from: Manning18 on May 02, 2023, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 02, 2023, 01:18:27 PM
Connacht winner will probably get a tougher group than any other Connacht side eliminated earlier lol.
If Galway do win Connacht, that's twice in 2 years their 'reward' for winning their province has been the rotten draw against the good Ulster side. Last year, 1 of Clare, Cork Armagh. This year, one of Clare, Louth, Armagh/Derry
A handy run last year according to the Mayo boys though.
Sure Sligo might get the booby prize this year yet.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 02, 2023, 01:25:31 PM
Connacht winner being shafted!
No, being exposed to Ulster teams earlier than usual ... welcome to the world of Ulster.
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
Kildare getting the Dubs at home (assuming Dubs beat Louth) is a beaut after Ryan's rant! Although not sure if Kildare have a home venue at the moment, maybe they'll nominate Croker :P
The last round is called the Neutral round, as opposed to the Croke Park round which I think it was called in Super 8. I presumed that meant Dubs wouldn't be in Croker, but seemingly there's talk the Croke Park is still on the table. That's the Dublin v Sligo (probably) game I think, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. Portlaoise a suitable alternative?
Rossies should come out with a Newbridge or nowhere style stance.
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.
Group 2 likely to be Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Westmeath.
What venue would we play Armagh at?
Leinster (if Dublin) and Ulster winners (if Derry) should top their groups while Group 1 top spot is between Kerry and Mayo.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:46:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.
True, but not the end of the world either. Would have put money before a draw being made that ourselves and Mayo will be playing in the prelim round as neither county ever does things the simple way lol
May 21st/22nd (First-named team at home): Connacht winner v Tyrone; Ulster runner-up v Westmeath
June 3rd/4th (First-named team at home): Tyrone v Ulster runner-up; Westmeath v Connacht winner
June 17th/18th (Neutral venue): Connacht winner v Ulster runner-up; Tyrone v Westmeath
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2023, 01:53:10 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:46:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.
True, but not the end of the world either. Would have put money before a draw being made that ourselves and Mayo will be playing in the prelim round as neither county ever does things the simple way lol
Not the end of the world but will make winning Sam far far harder.
The preliminary quarter-finals are a week after the last group game and then the quarter-finals are the weekend after that playing against a side that won their group and had the weekend of the prelminary quarter-finals off.
I'll be very surprised if the winner of Sam isn't one of the four group winners.
If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group. Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?
(1/2) Kerry 7/4 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2 9/4
(1/2) Galway 11/2 13/2
(3) Mayo 7/1 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1 11/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1 18/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1 22/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1 40/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1 50/1
(4) Cork 80/1 100/1
(4) Kildare 80/1 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1 250/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1 500/1
Odds to win pre and post draw.
Teams whose odds shortened got a good draw. Dublin/Derry/Roscommon/Monaghan/Clare/Sligo
Teams whose odds lengthened got a bad draw. Galway/Armagh/Tyrone/Cork
Assuming the favs all win the provinces (Derry favs in Ulster), the first round of fixtures would be (first named having home advantage):
May 20/21
1: Kerry v Mayo
2: Galway v Tyrone
3: Sligo v Kildare
4: Clare v Donegal
May 27/28
1: Louth v Cork
2: Armagh v Westmeath
3: Dubs v Rossies
4: Derry v Monaghan
Kerry, Clare, Galway, Sligo already knew they were out on May 20/21, so the reason for the early draw is to let the others know when they'll be out.
Quote from: An Watcher on May 02, 2023, 01:58:40 PM
If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group. Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?
Open draw - a second will play a 3rd from another group, winner qualifying for the last 8, where they will meet a group winner (but not the group winner of their group).
Quote from: An Watcher on May 02, 2023, 01:58:40 PM
If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group. Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?
Will be a draw to determine this.
Quote from: weareros on May 02, 2023, 02:02:42 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on May 02, 2023, 01:58:40 PM
If Tyrone were to finish 2nd/3rd in their group. Would they be up against 2nd/3rd from Kerry/Mayo group?
Open draw - a second will play a 3rd from another group, winner qualifying for the last 8, where they will meet a group winner (but not the group winner of their group).
Preliminary Quarter-Finals
24-25.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four second-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play at home against the four third-placed teams, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.
Home Venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee.
Quarter-Finals
01-02.07.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four first-place teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play against the four Preliminary Quarter-Finals winners, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:46:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.
This is so true, topping the group is vital to get that two week break to a q final and to avoid the other group winners in the draw.
I'd go so far as to say that whoever are the four teams that top their respective groups, the eventual winners of Sam are going to come from that cohort. Not to say a 2nd or 3rd placed team can't do it but going week in week out playing win or go home games will stretch squads and any injury niggles to the limit, the odds just get longer and longer.
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on May 02, 2023, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:46:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.
This is so true, topping the group is vital to get that two week break to a q final and to avoid the other group winners in the draw.
I'd go so far as to say that whoever are the four teams that top their respective groups, the eventual winners of Sam are going to come from that cohort. Not to say a 2nd or 3rd placed team can't do it but going week in week out playing win or go home games will stretch squads and any injury niggles to the limit, the odds just get longer and longer.
Surely there would be similar odds to a team from the qualifiers winning Sam in the old days
Not hugely exciting for the neutral I doubt Clare Sligo or Westmeath win a match and Cork and Louth will play off for 3rd.
Group 4 in particular with the Ulster teams you know those games won't be hugely exciting.
1/4 final predictions:
Kerry v Roscommon
Galway v Monaghan
Dublin v Tyrone
Mayo v Derry
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 02:02:09 PM
(1/2) Kerry 7/4 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2 9/4
(1/2) Galway 11/2 13/2
(3) Mayo 7/1 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1 11/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1 18/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1 22/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1 40/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1 50/1
(4) Cork 80/1 100/1
(4) Kildare 80/1 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1 250/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1 500/1
Odds to win pre and post draw.
Teams whose odds shortened got a good draw. Dublin/Derry/Roscommon/Monaghan/Clare/Sligo
Teams whose odds lengthened got a bad draw. Galway/Armagh/Tyrone/Cork
I wouldn't have seen the draw as good for Dublin.
Group might be easy, which they were always going to qualify from anyway, but it means the team they face in the quarters likely to be difficult as they can't face someone from their own group.
Most likely to get one from Mayo/Kerry, Tyrone/Galway, Armagh/Derry.
Quote from: full moon on May 02, 2023, 03:03:58 PM
Not hugely exciting for the neutral I doubt Clare Sligo or Westmeath win a match and Cork and Louth will play off for 3rd.
Group 4 in particular with the Ulster teams you know those games won't be hugely exciting.
I fancy Clare to beat Donegal
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 02:02:09 PM
(1/2) Kerry 7/4 7/4
(1/2) Dublin 5/2 9/4
(1/2) Galway 11/2 13/2
(3) Mayo 7/1 7/1
(1/2) Derry 12/1 11/1
(3) Tyrone 16/1 18/1
(1/2) Armagh 20/1 22/1
(3) Roscommon 50/1 40/1
(3) Monaghan 66/1 50/1
(4) Cork 80/1 100/1
(4) Kildare 80/1 80/1
(4) Donegal 150/1 150/1
(1/2) Louth 200/1 200/1
(1/2) Clare 300/1 250/1
(4) Westmeath 500/1 500/1
(1/2) Sligo 1000/1 500/1
Odds to win pre and post draw.
Teams whose odds shortened got a good draw. Dublin/Derry/Roscommon/Monaghan/Clare/Sligo
Teams whose odds lengthened got a bad draw. Galway/Armagh/Tyrone/Cork
I wouldn't have seen the draw as good for Dublin.
Group might be easy, which they were always going to qualify from anyway, but it means the team they face in the quarters likely to be difficult as they can't face someone from their own group.
Most likely to get one from Mayo/Kerry, Tyrone/Galway, Armagh/Derry.
Yes, Quarter final exit is possible for Dublin this year.
Dublin/Sligo is the likeliest fixture and should be played at a NEUTRAL venue in a NEUTRAL location.
Breffni Park the obvious choice.
If the GAA decide on Croke Park they should be boycotted!
Quote from: Rossfan on May 02, 2023, 03:57:57 PM
Dublin/Sligo is the likeliest fixture and should be played at a NEUTRAL venue in a NEUTRAL location.
Breffni Park the obvious choice.
If the GAA decide on Croke Park they should be boycotted!
Dublin will probably end up with 2 home games and 1 neutral in the round robin. Some joke.
Was just chatting to a fairly passionate GAA man, his reaction to the draw is that it is a bit too watered down.
Hard to disagree. Hopefully next year, they consider just the top two go through from the groups. Full stop.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 02, 2023, 03:03:58 PM
Not hugely exciting for the neutral I doubt Clare Sligo or Westmeath win a match and Cork and Louth will play off for 3rd.
Group 4 in particular with the Ulster teams you know those games won't be hugely exciting.
I fancy Clare to beat Donegal
Given where we currently are at, Clare should be favourites.
Home to Derry or Armagh. And then Monaghan in, presumably, Breffni or Omagh.
A year ago we'd be aiming for three wins, regardless of our complaints at the time.
Now... well at least we should be put out of our misery fairly quickly and hopefully get down to sorting out the various problems within the county.
Quote from: joemamas on May 02, 2023, 04:15:43 PM
Was just chatting to a fairly passionate GAA man, his reaction to the draw is that it is a bit too watered down.
Hard to disagree. Hopefully next year, they consider just the top two go through from the groups. Full stop.
With that would have the Super 8s issue of dead rubber games in round 3 and i can't see HQ doing or wanting that.
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 02, 2023, 04:35:00 PM
Quote from: joemamas on May 02, 2023, 04:15:43 PM
Was just chatting to a fairly passionate GAA man, his reaction to the draw is that it is a bit too watered down.
Hard to disagree. Hopefully next year, they consider just the top two go through from the groups. Full stop.
With that would have the Super 8s issue of dead rubber games in round 3 and i can't see HQ doing or wanting that.
Tailtean cup winners should b included too at the expese of the 8th team, help keep things interesting
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2023, 02:48:50 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on May 02, 2023, 02:43:44 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 02, 2023, 01:46:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 01:37:38 PM
The way the provincials worked out this year, the group with the Ulster runner up was always going to be the "group of death". But with 3 progressing it's not something to be worried about.
People seem to think because three teams are getting out of the group, that as long as a team gets out of the group all will be fine and dandy.
There's going to be a world of difference in terms of teams coming out of the group as winner versus 2nd versus 3rd.
Half of those who come out of the group in 2nd and 3rd place will be gone within 7 days.
It's not like the Super 8s where getting out of the group would get a team a place in a semi-final in a neutral venue.
This is so true, topping the group is vital to get that two week break to a q final and to avoid the other group winners in the draw.
I'd go so far as to say that whoever are the four teams that top their respective groups, the eventual winners of Sam are going to come from that cohort. Not to say a 2nd or 3rd placed team can't do it but going week in week out playing win or go home games will stretch squads and any injury niggles to the limit, the odds just get longer and longer.
Surely there would be similar odds to a team from the qualifiers winning Sam in the old days
It's not like the old days though this is the thing, topping the group is the only way to go, advantage of a week off while the 2nd and 3rd placed teams are fighting for their lives at the same time is going to be massive. Maybe it'll shake out differently but I'll be shocked if the AI winner isn't one of the group table toppers.
Personally I think it should be top two through and two week break for those teams to the Q-finals but I see why they have gone this route to avoid the round 3 dead rubbers.
We can change the format of intercounty football every year and still encounter the same problems. The elephant in the room is the inherent imbalance between counties and provinces due to population and interest in football vs other sports.
If we continue with intercounty football as is, I think the best solution would be to move to 2 divisions of 16 teams. Round robin league with 30 games. Play a 32 team straight knockout cup concurrently with the weeks of fixtures known in advance. Use the "pre season" tournaments to replace the provincial championships.
With the draw so early it leaves teams with options of throwing games. Not saying it would happen but it is potentially now in Kerry's interest to lose the Munster Final and finish up in a group with Monaghan and Donegal and leave Mayo for a rattle later in the year.
I don't get the rush with everything from draws to games on top of each other.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 02, 2023, 04:54:01 PM
We can change the format of intercounty football every year and still encounter the same problems. The elephant in the room is the inherent imbalance between counties and provinces due to population and interest in football vs other sports.
If we continue with intercounty football as is, I think the best solution would be to move to 2 divisions of 16 teams. Round robin league with 30 games. Play a 32 team straight knockout cup concurrently with the weeks of fixtures known in advance. Use the "pre season" tournaments to replace the provincial championships.
"Round robin league with 30 games"
So county players won't be playing very many club games.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 04:03:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 02, 2023, 03:57:57 PM
Dublin/Sligo is the likeliest fixture and should be played at a NEUTRAL venue in a NEUTRAL location.
Breffni Park the obvious choice.
If the GAA decide on Croke Park they should be boycotted!
Dublin will probably end up with 2 home games and 1 neutral in the round robin. Some joke.
Ah jazes, wait until they do it, before getting yourself all annoyed!
I think the only way Dublin v Sligo (if that's how it pans out) is played in Croker is if Sligo request it. Which I presume is unlikely.
If there is an upset in any of the one-sided (according to the bookies) provincial finals, it would certainly make a big change to the groups.
Quote from: pbat on May 02, 2023, 04:56:39 PM
With the draw so early it leaves teams with options of throwing games. Not saying it would happen but it is potentially now in Kerry's interest to lose the Munster Final and finish up in a group with Monaghan and Donegal and leave Mayo for a rattle later in the year.
I don't get the rush with everything from draws to games on top of each other.
Not sure about that. As BcB pointed out above re a handy draw on paper for the Dubs not actually being a good thing.
I think Kerry will be happy to play Mayo in an important game in the round robin. Both teams will want to win to top the group, but it's a free hit and win, lose or draw, they will learn loads, and they'll be guaranteed to avoid each other in the quarter-finals.
Quote from: Hound on May 02, 2023, 05:09:21 PM
Quote from: pbat on May 02, 2023, 04:56:39 PM
With the draw so early it leaves teams with options of throwing games. Not saying it would happen but it is potentially now in Kerry's interest to lose the Munster Final and finish up in a group with Monaghan and Donegal and leave Mayo for a rattle later in the year.
I don't get the rush with everything from draws to games on top of each other.
Not sure about that. As BcB pointed out above re a handy draw on paper for the Dubs not actually being a good thing.
I think Kerry will be happy to play Mayo in an important game in the round robin. Both teams will want to win to top the group, but it's a free hit and win, lose or draw, they will learn loads, and they'll be guaranteed to avoid each other in the quarter-finals.
Besides the preposterousity of Kerry throwing a Munster Final...
Kerry would much prefer an away game in Cork instead of in Donegal (especially since it'll give Kerry their opportunity of a first away win since last year's All-Ireland semi-final).
And would prefer their 1/4 final with Donegal or Monaghan as potential opponents than v Mayo.
On the negative side, Kerry have a serious threat to their unbeaten home record since 1995 by playing Mayo.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 03:12:40 PM
1/4 final predictions:
Kerry v Roscommon
Galway v Monaghan
Dublin v Tyrone
Mayo v Derry
Next year's Division 1
All lot of games in the group stage to eliminate four teams, a case of waiting to see it play out before judging fully and will be interesting to see the size of crowds that attends these matches (GAA would be wise to charge no more than NFL prices)
Knock out All Ireland quarter final is improvement on the Super 8s but I'm not sure if it's right for one quarter finalists to have the advantage of week rest over the other.
4 sets of matches to remove 8 teams
If you have only 2 going through from each there's the liklihood of dead rubbers.
As for crowds and prices....no danger the GAA would do a bit of innovative marketing and try 3 game ticket packages or special family tickets packages?
Crowds won't be massive for a 3 game series so why not have cheap tickets to tempt people especially youngsters to attend.
Remember today's open mouthed amazed kid is likely to be a "customer" for 60 or 70 years!
Better 15k paying €10 at a game than 7k paying €20
Quote from: Rossfan on May 02, 2023, 07:05:51 PM
If you have only 2 going through from each there's the liklihood of dead rubbers.
As for crowds and prices....no danger the GAA would do a bit of innovative marketing and try 3 game ticket packages or special family tickets packages?
Crowds won't be massive for a 3 game series so why not have cheap tickets to tempt people especially youngsters to attend.
Remember today's open mouthed amazed kid is likely to be a "customer" for 60 or 70 years!
Better 15k paying €10 at a game than 7k paying €20
They should. But if they had 3 game packages cue complaints about people not wanting to travel too far and only wanting two games etc.
They should sell 3 game packages with a guarantee of tickets for any subsequent semi-finals or finals.
Some of the venues are small. But as far as I can tell it is Cork away to Louth and the away fans would fit on a bus.
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Theoretically you can go through with just one win and finish third so surely theres always a chance?
They should playoff the 4th place teams and dump a couple of them in the Tailteann cup next year.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Only the GAA could come up with preliminary quarter finals, complete nonsense, makes group stage less appealing. One team knocked out ffs! Same silly nonsense in Hurling as well.
All about the money kids, what's new.
To be fair, it's also about ensuring there will be no dead rubbers in the group stages.
May not be too bad. After 3 games, 4 will be out. 4 games, 8 out, 5 games 12 out. Will happen fast enough in 2 or 3 weeks.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
Quote from: delgany on May 02, 2023, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Only the GAA could come up with preliminary quarter finals, complete nonsense, makes group stage less appealing. One team knocked out ffs! Same silly nonsense in Hurling as well.
I was thinking they should introduce a preliminary semifinal as well!
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
In that scenario Mayo v Cork is a dead rubber. Mayo have secured top on head to head results v Kerry & Louth. Cork are bottom due to head to head results v Kerry & Louth.
Kerry and Louth are already thro' to the preliminary 1/4s, just deciding who's 2nd and who's 3rd, so essentially a dead rubber,in fact in some cases finishing 3rd may be preferred.
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 03, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 02, 2023, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Only the GAA could come up with preliminary quarter finals, complete nonsense, makes group stage less appealing. One team knocked out ffs! Same silly nonsense in Hurling as well.
I was thinking they should introduce a preliminary semifinal as well!
Seeing we're about to have preliminary 1/4 finals and we've already had preliminary finals (a.k.a. 'Home finals'), all that's missing is preliminary semifinals.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:10:00 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 03, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 02, 2023, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Only the GAA could come up with preliminary quarter finals, complete nonsense, makes group stage less appealing. One team knocked out ffs! Same silly nonsense in Hurling as well.
I was thinking they should introduce a preliminary semifinal as well!
Seeing we're about to have preliminary 1/4 finals and we've already has preliminary finals (a.k.a. 'Home finals'), all that's missing is preliminary semifinals.
We shouldn't say things like this, even in jest, as someone surely will think its a great idea and it'll be before congress next season.
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 03, 2023, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:10:00 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 03, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 02, 2023, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Only the GAA could come up with preliminary quarter finals, complete nonsense, makes group stage less appealing. One team knocked out ffs! Same silly nonsense in Hurling as well.
I was thinking they should introduce a preliminary semifinal as well!
Seeing we're about to have preliminary 1/4 finals and we've already has preliminary finals (a.k.a. 'Home finals'), all that's missing is preliminary semifinals.
We shouldn't say things like this, even in jest, as someone surely will think its a great idea and it'll be before congress next season.
It might just occur naturally in conversation.
A: "Have you been to any Armagh game this year?"
B: "Yeah, I was at the quarter-final"
A: "Which 1/4 final? The preliminary one?"
B: "No, the other 1/4 final. The preliminary semi-final."
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 02:51:46 PM
B: "Yeah, I was at the quarter-final"
The provincial quarter-final or the All-Ireland quarter final?
Surely any team that makes it to an all ireland final doesn't deserve to go out on just one result. We should make it a three match series, Croker filled to the brim for each one!
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
In that scenario Mayo v Cork is a dead rubber. Mayo have secured top on head to head results v Kerry & Louth. Cork are bottom due to head to head results v Kerry & Louth.
Kerry and Louth are already thro' to the preliminary 1/4s, just deciding who's 2nd and who's 3rd, so essentially a dead rubber,in fact in some cases finishing 3rd may be preferred.
Apologies
You are correct in that scenario.
My head hurts.
This is near impossible to follow to be honest.
My auld fella hasn't got a clue what happens after ulster and I'd say he's not alone in that.
It just seems very complicated, or perhaps its the communication around the possible permutations that's complicated.
I do get the intention though and I think that is right, but I also think the draw should not have been made until all provincial finals have been completed.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 03, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
My head hurts.
This is near impossible to follow to be honest.
My auld fella hasn't got a clue what happens after ulster and I'd say he's not alone in that.
It just seems very complicated, or perhaps its the communication around the possible permutations that's complicated.
I do get the intention though and I think that is right, but I also think the draw should not have been made until all provincial finals have been completed.
It will become very clear once it's up and running.
Also both the GAA and the GAA media haven't exactly done a top job in terms of explaining the structure to folk.
However there's only so much the GAA and media can do - they can't just click their fingers and magically make it so that everyone in the land has complete knowledge of the structure with zero effort put in.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 03, 2023, 04:34:24 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 03, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
My head hurts.
This is near impossible to follow to be honest.
My auld fella hasn't got a clue what happens after ulster and I'd say he's not alone in that.
It just seems very complicated, or perhaps its the communication around the possible permutations that's complicated.
I do get the intention though and I think that is right, but I also think the draw should not have been made until all provincial finals have been completed.
It will become very clear once it's up and running.
Also both the GAA and the GAA media haven't exactly done a top job in terms of explaining the structure to folk.
However there's only so much the GAA and media can do - they can't just click their fingers and magically make it so that everyone in the land has complete knowledge of the structure with zero effort put in.
Have a feeling an All-Ireland contender or a team aiming for All-Ireland semi final at least will be caught out thinking it will be grand if they finish 2nd or 3rd in the group.
Plenty of others will be delighted with All-Ireland quarter and bow out there so finishing 2nd or 3rd in the group will do them fine.
provincial finals should be played as a two double headers Saturday and sunday
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
In that scenario Mayo v Cork is a dead rubber. Mayo have secured top on head to head results v Kerry & Louth. Cork are bottom due to head to head results v Kerry & Louth.
Kerry and Louth are already thro' to the preliminary 1/4s, just deciding who's 2nd and who's 3rd, so essentially a dead rubber,in fact in some cases finishing 3rd may be preferred.
Apologies
You are correct in that scenario.
Well presuming tiebreakers are based on head-to-head, which I've assumed but haven't actual seen any where.
Head-to-head isn't fair imo for a group of mixed seeds where there's a mix of home, away and neutral games.
It's fine in the league as you've the 8 best teams so it balances out.
If Kerry beat Mayo but end up level on points, it seems unfair that Kerry would finish ahead based on head-to-head after having home advantage in that head-to-head. I think if two teams end up level on points, and one had home advantage (and won) head-to-head shouldn't count.
Depending on the group and your ambitions the way their home/away/neutral fixtures are fixed can give a big advantage.
For Kerry, they've the ideal situation, the one tough opponent at home and then the two easier opponents either at neutral venue or away.
Other teams who's ambition is to just win one game and finish 3rd, will want their easiest opponent at home and happy to write off 2 games against big guns and play them away or neutral.
Should have just been top 2 in each group and onto the quarters. How many chances do teams need FFS.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
In that scenario Mayo v Cork is a dead rubber. Mayo have secured top on head to head results v Kerry & Louth. Cork are bottom due to head to head results v Kerry & Louth.
Kerry and Louth are already thro' to the preliminary 1/4s, just deciding who's 2nd and who's 3rd, so essentially a dead rubber,in fact in some cases finishing 3rd may be preferred.
Is it head to head or score difference when 3 teams tie?
I know in Tyrone it is head to head where 2 teams finish level but if it is more than 2 then it is score difference.
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 03, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
My head hurts.
This is near impossible to follow to be honest.
My auld fella hasn't got a clue what happens after ulster and I'd say he's not alone in that.
It just seems very complicated, or perhaps its the communication around the possible permutations that's complicated.
I do get the intention though and I think that is right, but I also think the draw should not have been made until all provincial finals have been completed.
Serious question but what do you find so confusing about it?
Top team in each group straight into the quarter final.
2nd and 3rd placed teams play off in preliminary quarter finals with the winners of those games joining the above mentioned in the quarter final.
Pretty straightforward.
if they did first two qualify people would moan about dead rubbers
Quote from: galwayman on May 03, 2023, 06:09:37 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 03, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
My head hurts.
This is near impossible to follow to be honest.
My auld fella hasn't got a clue what happens after ulster and I'd say he's not alone in that.
It just seems very complicated, or perhaps its the communication around the possible permutations that's complicated.
I do get the intention though and I think that is right, but I also think the draw should not have been made until all provincial finals have been completed.
Serious question but what do you find so confusing about it?
Top team in each group straight into the quarter final.
2nd and 3rd placed teams play off in preliminary quarter finals with the winners of those games joining the above mentioned in the quarter final.
Pretty straightforward.
It is for us well educated Connacht folks ;).
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 03, 2023, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 02, 2023, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
Only the GAA could come up with preliminary quarter finals, complete nonsense, makes group stage less appealing. One team knocked out ffs! Same silly nonsense in Hurling as well.
I was thinking they should introduce a preliminary semifinal as well!
Apparently the Games Administration Committee have also decided to have preliminary games to decide which kids teams get to play at HT. Mad altogether.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
In that scenario Mayo v Cork is a dead rubber. Mayo have secured top on head to head results v Kerry & Louth. Cork are bottom due to head to head results v Kerry & Louth.
Kerry and Louth are already thro' to the preliminary 1/4s, just deciding who's 2nd and who's 3rd, so essentially a dead rubber,in fact in some cases finishing 3rd may be preferred.
Apologies
You are correct in that scenario.
Well presuming tiebreakers are based on head-to-head, which I've assumed but haven't actual seen any where.
Head-to-head isn't fair imo for a group of mixed seeds where there's a mix of home, away and neutral games.
It's fine in the league as you've the 8 best teams so it balances out.
If Kerry beat Mayo but end up level on points, it seems unfair that Kerry would finish ahead based on head-to-head after having home advantage in that head-to-head. I think if two teams end up level on points, and one had home advantage (and won) head-to-head shouldn't count.
Depending on the group and your ambitions the way their home/away/neutral fixtures are fixed can give a big advantage.
For Kerry, they've the ideal situation, the one tough opponent at home and then the two easier opponents either at neutral venue or away.
Other teams who's ambition is to just win one game and finish 3rd, will want their easiest opponent at home and happy to write off 2 games against big guns and play them away or neutral.
Do games have to have a winner on the day in the group stage? So extra time and if necessary penalties?
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 03, 2023, 08:28:23 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 03:43:22 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 03, 2023, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: westbound on May 03, 2023, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 02, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
The GAA trying to convince people that the idea of 3 qualifying from groups was to avoid dead rubbers when in reality it's for financial reasons especially with the 4 preliminary 1/4s.
I don't see how dead rubbers will definitely be avoided.
In Kerry's group, if the winner of Kerry-Mayo beats the winner of Louth-Cork in the 2nd game, with the loser of Louth-Cork also losing their 2nd game, then won't the final game between the team with 2 wins v the team with 2 losses be a dead rubber?
And the other game will essentially be a dead rubber, 2nd and 3rd will be decided, just which order.
In your scenario, going into the last match the table could be:
Mayo -4
Kerry -2
Louth - 2
Cork -0
Last match is Kerry V louth and Mayo V cork
In that scenario, if cork and louth won their last matches, Louth could get top, Mayo second and Cork could get third with kerry finishing bottom.
That's unlikely, but they aren't dead rubbers.
Also, there is a benefit to fiishing 2nd over 3rd as you will (in theory) get an easier preliminary quarter final.
In that scenario Mayo v Cork is a dead rubber. Mayo have secured top on head to head results v Kerry & Louth. Cork are bottom due to head to head results v Kerry & Louth.
Kerry and Louth are already thro' to the preliminary 1/4s, just deciding who's 2nd and who's 3rd, so essentially a dead rubber,in fact in some cases finishing 3rd may be preferred.
Apologies
You are correct in that scenario.
Well presuming tiebreakers are based on head-to-head, which I've assumed but haven't actual seen any where.
Head-to-head isn't fair imo for a group of mixed seeds where there's a mix of home, away and neutral games.
It's fine in the league as you've the 8 best teams so it balances out.
If Kerry beat Mayo but end up level on points, it seems unfair that Kerry would finish ahead based on head-to-head after having home advantage in that head-to-head. I think if two teams end up level on points, and one had home advantage (and won) head-to-head shouldn't count.
Depending on the group and your ambitions the way their home/away/neutral fixtures are fixed can give a big advantage.
For Kerry, they've the ideal situation, the one tough opponent at home and then the two easier opponents either at neutral venue or away.
Other teams who's ambition is to just win one game and finish 3rd, will want their easiest opponent at home and happy to write off 2 games against big guns and play them away or neutral.
Do games have to have a winner on the day in the group stage? So extra time and if necessary penalties?
No, they are just mini-leagues.
O moore Park portlaoise will benefit from this draw looking at likely scenarios.
It's probably most accessible than most grounds for the neutral games that look likely
If the groups go to current form you could end up with
Kerry V Louth
Mayo v Cork
Galway v Armagh
Tyrone v Westmeath
Dublin v Sligo
Roscommon v Kildare
Derry v Clare
Monaghan v Donegal
Does the final game in each league have to start at the same time ? Or you play double headers in some Groups Thurles would be perfect for Group 1 and Clones for Group 2 and with the Croke Park bias Group 3 could be a double header in Croker. Only Group 4 is an outlier really and pick the Hyde/salthill and Omagh for those games.
I should think the final games in each Group will have to start at the same time.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 11:26:07 AM
I should think the final games in each Group will have to start at the same time.
You never know with the GAA lol
Quote from: GoldCoastRossie on May 04, 2023, 11:22:35 AM
If the groups go to current form you could end up with
Kerry V Louth
Mayo v Cork
Galway v Armagh
Tyrone v Westmeath
Dublin v Sligo
Roscommon v Kildare
Derry v Clare
Monaghan v Donegal
Does the final game in each league have to start at the same time ? Or you play double headers in some Groups Thurles would be perfect for Group 1 and Clones for Group 2 and with the Croke Park bias Group 3 could be a double header in Croker. Only Group 4 is an outlier really and pick the Hyde/salthill and Omagh for those games.
I know we're only guessing at this stage but I think we can all state that Dublin will beat Louth, Kerry will beat Clare and Galway will beat Sligo. The close final will be Derry v Armagh so they fixtures above will be pretty bang on the money there with exception of Ulster...There will be some quick turnarounds fr tickets when teams start playing weekly.
will teams that have to play in the prelim quater finals and win have to play 6 weeks in a row or something like that.
Quote from: Eire90 on May 04, 2023, 02:38:15 PM
will teams that have to play in the prelim quater finals and win have to play 6 weeks in a row or something like that.
3 group games, prelim round then qf? 5 in a row? Surely there will be at least one week off.
Edit: had a look and this is group schedule
Games will take place on the following weekends:
Rd 1: 27/28 May
Rd 2: 3/4 June
Rd 3: 17/18 June
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 11:26:07 AM
I should think the final games in each Group will have to start at the same time.
Going by Super 8s, yes.
Although different groups can be on different days so some teams may wish to finish 3rd rather than 2nd when they see the final positions in other groups.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 04, 2023, 03:11:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 11:26:07 AM
I should think the final games in each Group will have to start at the same time.
Going by Super 8s, yes.
Although different groups can be on different days so some teams may wish to finish 3rd rather than 2nd when they see the final positions in other groups.
to do it fair, all finalgames should really be played at the same time although not sure if that is logistically possible
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 04, 2023, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 04, 2023, 03:11:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 11:26:07 AM
I should think the final games in each Group will have to start at the same time.
Going by Super 8s, yes.
Although different groups can be on different days so some teams may wish to finish 3rd rather than 2nd when they see the final positions in other groups.
to do it fair, all finalgames should really be played at the same time although not sure if that is logistically possible
I think 2 double headers in Croke Park and then 4 other games at various locations picked based on size and proximity.
E.g.
Round 3 (Neutral venues)
June 17 - 18
Group 1
Kerry v Louth (Croke Park)
Mayo v Cork (Limerick)
Group 2
Galway v Ulster runner-up (Armagh/Derry) (Breffni Park)
Tyrone v Westmeath (Croke Park)
Group 3
Dublin v Sligo (Clones)
Roscommon v Kildare (Croke Park)
Group 4
Ulster winner (Armagh/Derry) v Clare (Pearse Stadium)
Monaghan v Donegal (Breffni Park)
Full fixture details will be confirmed by the CCCC on Friday, May 5th.
i would be feRFUL MAYO CORK would be in ennis rather than limerick. going on history . no good seats in ennis even if you were in first and a dump of a town
Quote from: blanketattack on May 04, 2023, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 04, 2023, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 04, 2023, 03:11:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 11:26:07 AM
I should think the final games in each Group will have to start at the same time.
Going by Super 8s, yes.
Although different groups can be on different days so some teams may wish to finish 3rd rather than 2nd when they see the final positions in other groups.
to do it fair, all finalgames should really be played at the same time although not sure if that is logistically possible
I think 2 double headers in Croke Park and then 4 other games at various locations picked based on size and proximity.
E.g.
Round 3 (Neutral venues)
June 17 - 18
Group 1
Kerry v Louth (Croke Park)
Mayo v Cork (Limerick)
Group 2
Galway v Ulster runner-up (Armagh/Derry) (Breffni Park)
Tyrone v Westmeath (Croke Park)
Group 3
Dublin v Sligo (Clones)
Roscommon v Kildare (Croke Park)
Group 4
Ulster winner (Armagh/Derry) v Clare (Pearse Stadium)
Monaghan v Donegal (Breffni Park)
Full fixture details will be confirmed by the CCCC on Friday, May 5th.
Provincial grounds should be used for round 3 neutral venues and then leave Croke Park double headers for the following week with the All-Ireland Quarter finals.
provincial champions should probably get two games at home instead of a neutral round.
Quote from: Eire90 on May 04, 2023, 07:51:24 PM
provincial champions should probably get two games at home instead of a neutral round.
well one of them will lol
Group games in Croker would hardly fill the lower Hogan.
At least give Provincial Grounds and Towns a bit of a boost or sense of occasion.
Kerry v Louth Portlaoise
Mayo v Cork Limerick
Galway v Armagh Breffni or Hyde
Tyrone v Westmeath Enniskillen or Markievicz.
Dublin v Sligo Breffni
Ros v Kildare Tullamore
Derry v Clare Markievicz
Monaghan v Donegal Omagh.
I think the Tailteann Qtr Finals are that weekend which might complicate things.
I think the new championship format looks promising .
My only (repeatedly mentioned) gripe so far is that the provincial runners up are 2nd seeds in the group stages.
I'd opine that the provincial winners be first seeds and the rest of the qualified teams be seeded according to their league placement. Keep it simple.
As regards Monaghan , I'm content enough to get Clare at home and Donegal neutral. I don't think we were going to beat Derry at any venue so it's bonus away fixture, we have nothing to lose there (except the game) with some hope for a better performance, and should it be Armagh, revenge is a dish best served ice cold.
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2023, 08:50:54 PM
I think the new championship format looks promising .
My only (repeatedly mentioned) gripe so far is that the provincial runners up are 2nd seeds in the group stages.
I'd opine that the provincial winners be first seeds and the rest of the qualified teams be seeded according to their league placement. Keep it simple.
...
Would agree with that.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 08:48:03 PM
Group games in Croker would hardly fill the lower Hogan.
At least give Provincial Grounds and Towns a bit of a boost or sense of occasion.
Kerry v Louth Portlaoise
Mayo v Cork Limerick
Galway v Armagh Breffni or Hyde
Tyrone v Westmeath Enniskillen or Markievicz.
Dublin v Sligo Breffni
Ros v Kildare Tullamore
Derry v Clare Markievicz
Monaghan v Donegal Omagh.
I think the Tailteann Qtr Finals are that weekend which might complicate things.
Double up with Tailteann games. That way all Tailtean games can throw in at 1:45 and Sam games at 4:00 and hope no Tailteann game goes to penalties.
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2023, 08:41:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2023, 08:48:03 PM
Group games in Croker would hardly fill the lower Hogan.
At least give Provincial Grounds and Towns a bit of a boost or sense of occasion.
Kerry v Louth Portlaoise
Mayo v Cork Limerick
Galway v Armagh Breffni or Hyde
Tyrone v Westmeath Enniskillen or Markievicz.
Dublin v Sligo Breffni
Ros v Kildare Tullamore
Derry v Clare Markievicz
Monaghan v Donegal Omagh.
I think the Tailteann Qtr Finals are that weekend which might complicate things.
Double up with Tailteann games. That way all Tailtean games can throw in at 1:45 and Sam games at 4:00 and hope no Tailteann game goes to penalties.
If the ticket scramble for the Ulster final is anything to go by, not a chance we could be part of a double header outside croker. Most clubs have 3 or 4 times over their allocation on looking tickets.
Difference between a Provincial Final ( 1st in ?? years) and a Group game to sort out final places where both teams are already through.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 04, 2023, 09:29:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 04, 2023, 08:50:54 PM
I think the new championship format looks promising .
My only (repeatedly mentioned) gripe so far is that the provincial runners up are 2nd seeds in the group stages.
I'd opine that the provincial winners be first seeds and the rest of the qualified teams be seeded according to their league placement. Keep it simple.
...
Would agree with that.
Yes, it seems a bit ridiculous that Sligo can be a second seed for winning 2 games against Leitrim and New York.
Apart from that it seems like a decent set up although playing 24 games to get from 16 teams down to 12 takes a lot of the hazard out of the group games. It will benefit teams with larger stronger squads though it feels like the championship won't kick off properly until the last 12 knockout games.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 05, 2023, 10:12:46 AM
Difference between a Provincial Final ( 1st in ?? years) and a Group game to sort out final places where both teams are already through.
15. :o :(
Yeah different level of importance obviously.
Depends how results are going for us but if we were to go on a run we'd probably keep most of the bandwagoners to be honest and there's always a sizeable core support.
With the 4 Provincial Finals still to be decided I suspect we'll see a lot of "If X vs Y at .. ..."
Quote from: Rossfan on May 05, 2023, 10:52:15 AM
With the 4 Provincial Finals still to be decided I suspect we'll see a lot of "If X vs Y at .. ..."
Connacht and Munster are probably 99% certain, Leinster maybe 80/20 at a push. Ulster is probably anywhere between 50/50 and 60/40 Derry.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 05, 2023, 10:12:46 AM
Difference between a Provincial Final ( 1st in ?? years) and a Group game to sort out final places where both teams are already through.
If Armagh end up playing Galway then that was an entertaining game last year and should attract a good crowd to Croker.
But of course having won Ulster we'll be playing Clare which will not draw quite the same numbers.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2023, 11:03:38 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 05, 2023, 10:12:46 AM
Difference between a Provincial Final ( 1st in ?? years) and a Group game to sort out final places where both teams are already through.
If Armagh end up playing Galway then that was an entertaining game last year and should attract a good crowd to Croker.
But of course having won Ulster we'll be playing Clare which will not draw quite the same numbers.
;)
Was a decent crowd in Newry for us drawing with Clare in the league a few years back. I would say teams will go all out to win their final game and top the group, much more advantageous to win your group than come second.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2023, 11:03:38 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 05, 2023, 10:12:46 AM
Difference between a Provincial Final ( 1st in ?? years) and a Group game to sort out final places where both teams are already through.
If Armagh end up playing Galway then that was an entertaining game last year and should attract a good crowd to Croker.
But of course having won Ulster we'll be playing Clare which will not draw quite the same numbers.
Have Armagh been practicing penalties ?
A lot of empty seats in Limerick
Quote from: dec on May 07, 2023, 04:04:54 PM
A lot of empty seats in Limerick
Munster GAA should have given Clare a home game.
Quote from: dec on May 07, 2023, 04:04:54 PM
A lot of empty seats in Limerick
Tippy tappy stuff!
Clare are shocking!
Kerry get rewarded as a 1st seed and all the advantages that carries for winning a nothing Munster Championship.
Clare playing way too open, Derry cut through them in the league and they haven't learned. You need close out the space inside their 45, 'they are way to open.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:37:00 PM
Clare playing way too open, Derry cut through them in the league and they haven't learned. You need close out the space inside their 45, 'they are way to open.
Set up so naively alright, a surprise with such experienced manager in Colm Collins.
a munster final and loads of empty seats
Fball got to the point where you got Kerry, Dublin, Galway a fair bit ahead of everybody, then Mayo, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Roscommon, who might beat one of the above but not two of them in the same year. After that nothing. It's went the way of hurling years ago were some teams on the day could do a upset but not any more. What the f**k going on in Cork, the size of the place.
Yeah those would be my thoughts too. Football and hurling becoming similar with massive gap between some teams and the rest. In reality Sligo aren't actually too bad a team - Galway are just brilliant (and still probably not the best).
It gets worse because lesser teams just can't get the commitment because players know this and won't put the time in either. I don't know how it gets out of this cycle either.
Cork very poor you're right. They have been competing with Kerry in the underage too. I was reading a bit about that and they reckon terrible decisions have been made wrt management. Whoever it was even said counihan, who got an ai, was poor and but for him they'd have more.
Nothing worse than a ref who tries to even up a game. That was a blatant Kerry penalty there.
For all the complaints of the way Derry set up, teams like Clare and Sligo need start using that as a starting point.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 05:05:31 PM
For all the complaints of the way Derry set up, teams like Clare and Sligo need start using that as a starting point.
There a couple of aspects to that, including the transition forward, how you get back if there is a turnover and covering people coming in on the back line.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2023, 05:11:40 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 05:05:31 PM
For all the complaints of the way Derry set up, teams like Clare and Sligo need start using that as a starting point.
There a couple of aspects to that, including the transition forward, how you get back if there is a turnover and covering people coming in on the back line.
A lot of work will be required on strength and conditioning by Clare,Sligo before they try to copy the way Derry play.
Kerry buzzing to be winning another Munster!!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:45:46 PM
Fball got to the point where you got Kerry, Dublin, Galway a fair bit ahead of everybody, then Mayo, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Roscommon, who might beat one of the above but not two of them in the same year. After that nothing. It's went the way of hurling years ago were some teams on the day could do a upset but not any more. What the f**k going on in Cork, the size of the place.
Kerry are a fair bit ahead of the rest , not a lot between the chasing pack of Derry, Armagh , dublin , Galway, Mayo and tyrone .
Confirmed round 1 matches in two weeks.
(May 20/21)
Kerry v Mayo
Galway v Tyrone
Clare v Donegal
Sligo v Kildare
Jez, them two finals were a real borefest. RTE should have saved themselves a few quid and had a tripe bill of James Bond Movies!
terrible advert for provincials the ulster final might be close and the provincial brigade will be arnt the provincials great.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 05:05:31 PM
For all the complaints of the way Derry set up, teams like Clare and Sligo need start using that as a starting point.
Every team would setup the same if they could but you need to be extremely fit to pull of tactics like that and most counties won't have that investment!
Quote from: larryin89 on May 07, 2023, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:45:46 PM
Fball got to the point where you got Kerry, Dublin, Galway a fair bit ahead of everybody, then Mayo, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Roscommon, who might beat one of the above but not two of them in the same year. After that nothing. It's went the way of hurling years ago were some teams on the day could do a upset but not any more. What the f**k going on in Cork, the size of the place.
Kerry are a fair bit ahead of the rest , not a lot between the chasing pack of Derry, Armagh , dublin , Galway, Mayo and tyrone .
They might be the front runners but they're not way ahead of the rest on the back of demolition jobs on Tipperary and Clare. I don't see any of the Ulster sides as real AI contenders, the main two are Galway and Dublin.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 07, 2023, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 07, 2023, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:45:46 PM
Fball got to the point where you got Kerry, Dublin, Galway a fair bit ahead of everybody, then Mayo, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Roscommon, who might beat one of the above but not two of them in the same year. After that nothing. It's went the way of hurling years ago were some teams on the day could do a upset but not any more. What the f**k going on in Cork, the size of the place.
Kerry are a fair bit ahead of the rest , not a lot between the chasing pack of Derry, Armagh , dublin , Galway, Mayo and tyrone .
They might be the front runners but they're not way ahead of the rest on the back of demolition jobs on Tipperary and Clare. I don't see any of the Ulster sides as real AI contenders, the main two are Galway and Dublin.
Not based on this years form as have a lot of improving to do.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2023, 04:33:06 PM
Kerry get rewarded as a 1st seed and all the advantages that carries for winning a nothing Munster Championship.
They're all ireland champions and favourites to win it again. Gonna be a first seed no matter you work out the criteria.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 07, 2023, 06:48:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2023, 04:33:06 PM
Kerry get rewarded as a 1st seed and all the advantages that carries for winning a nothing Munster Championship.
They're all ireland champions and favourites to win it again. Gonna be a first seed no matter you work out the criteria.
That's correct, Kerry are a first seed side no matter what way you look at it. I'd have much more of an issue with the fact that sides like Clare and Sligo are now second seeds having done nothing to merit being ranked that highly. This then skews the draw in favour of the teams in their group. Sligo shouldn't even be in the AI series considering they had wins over New York and Leitrim to get there.
I think the link needs to be solely between League position and not provincial championships.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 07, 2023, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 07, 2023, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 07, 2023, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:45:46 PM
Fball got to the point where you got Kerry, Dublin, Galway a fair bit ahead of everybody, then Mayo, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Roscommon, who might beat one of the above but not two of them in the same year. After that nothing. It's went the way of hurling years ago were some teams on the day could do a upset but not any more. What the f**k going on in Cork, the size of the place.
Kerry are a fair bit ahead of the rest , not a lot between the chasing pack of Derry, Armagh , dublin , Galway, Mayo and tyrone .
They might be the front runners but they're not way ahead of the rest on the back of demolition jobs on Tipperary and Clare. I don't see any of the Ulster sides as real AI contenders, the main two are Galway and Dublin.
Not based on this years form as have a lot of improving to do.
Possibly but we won't really know until they play the big teams in the AI series. I'm probably basing it off last years narrow semi final defeat to Kerry when a fit Con O'Callaghan probably would have won them the game. They also have Mannion and McCaffrey back from last year.
Not many would beat Dublin I would say. What they did to Derry in league final was impressive- still very much a contender.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2023, 06:07:00 PM
Jez, them two finals were a real borefest.
Did you seriously expect anything else.
Less than 25k attendance combined. Surprised they even got that many as I thought they'd be lucky to get over 9,999 at each of them.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 07, 2023, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 07, 2023, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:45:46 PM
Fball got to the point where you got Kerry, Dublin, Galway a fair bit ahead of everybody, then Mayo, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Roscommon, who might beat one of the above but not two of them in the same year. After that nothing. It's went the way of hurling years ago were some teams on the day could do a upset but not any more. What the f**k going on in Cork, the size of the place.
Kerry are a fair bit ahead of the rest , not a lot between the chasing pack of Derry, Armagh , dublin , Galway, Mayo and tyrone .
Galway have yet to beat Kerry or Dublin in championship with their current side , they have been in one all Ireland final . Im not convinced as others are on Galways chances, lets see how they go against Tyrone in two weeks time for a start off. albeit tyrone havent looked great this year so far .
They might be the front runners but they're not way ahead of the rest on the back of demolition jobs on Tipperary and Clare. I don't see any of the Ulster sides as real AI contenders, the main two are Galway and Dublin.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 07, 2023, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 07, 2023, 06:48:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 07, 2023, 04:33:06 PM
Kerry get rewarded as a 1st seed and all the advantages that carries for winning a nothing Munster Championship.
They're all ireland champions and favourites to win it again. Gonna be a first seed no matter you work out the criteria.
That's correct, Kerry are a first seed side no matter what way you look at it. I'd have much more of an issue with the fact that sides like Clare and Sligo are now second seeds having done nothing to merit being ranked that highly. This then skews the draw in favour of the teams in their group. Sligo shouldn't even be in the AI series considering they had wins over New York and Leitrim to get there.
I think the link needs to be solely between League position and not provincial championships.
Does 2nd seeds versus third seeds make any difference? Everyone gets 1 home, 1 away, 1 neutral. Don't see Sligo as 2nd seeds have any advantage over the Rossies as 3rd seeds, for example.
Although I do agree that losing provincial finalists should not have automatic entry into Sam.
Is the only advantage hone game first? Not matter a damn, they couldn't get enough to do a super 8, a 16 seeded championship no do better.
I criticise Sean Cavanagh often enough, but I'd agree totally with him tonight - there is no sense of occasion unless it's a knock out game. The football championship is a mess.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 07, 2023, 10:06:52 PM
I criticise Sean Cavanagh often enough, but I'd agree totally with him tonight - there is no sense of occasion unless it's a knock out game. The football championship is a mess.
That is simplistic. There were two games with cups at stake and the total attendance between the two was three quarters of that at a hurling game that was part of a round robin process.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 07, 2023, 10:06:52 PM
I criticise Sean Cavanagh often enough, but I'd agree totally with him tonight - there is no sense of occasion unless it's a knock out game. The football championship is a mess.
Big issue for new upcoming group format so especially for any team happy with 3rd place finish. What type of crowds are we expecting for these upcoming games? do well to see 12k at some of them and plenty will choose not to attend all 3 games.
Quote from: Sportacus on May 07, 2023, 10:06:52 PM
I criticise Sean Cavanagh often enough, but I'd agree totally with him tonight - there is no sense of occasion unless it's a knock out game. The football championship is a mess.
He was also correct with saying nobody is really bothered about winning pre season competitions, now it's the same with the league , nand now the provincials too. And sure even if we lose a group game or two , ah sure we can still win Sam
What a load of dung the championship is
The Hurley crowd aren't going around moaning about their Round Robin Championships.
Then again most of them aren't from the 6 Cos ;)
It's all just Tippy-Tappy stuff.
A waiting game. Waiting for knockout. What a mess?
It's just a procession of half nothing games until the 23/24th June.
It's actually worse concept than the Super 8's (and that is saying a lot)!
will there be a big crowd at Galway v tyrone
do you think for teams expected to get out of group stage people will keep their money to the knockouts instead of paying going to the group games.
Quote from: Eire90 on May 08, 2023, 01:15:17 AM
will there be a big crowd at Galway v tyrone
I go to a lot, not all Derry Games, but at £25 a game, I won't be getting to all the group games.
do you think for teams expected to get out of group stage people will keep their money to the knockouts instead of paying going to the group games.
Won't bother Galway either way shur they're fan base is piss poor till all Ireland final day . How many Galway at provincial final yesterday, 5/6 k ? It's a poor show
Quote from: Rossfan on May 07, 2023, 11:47:05 PM
The Hurley crowd aren't going around moaning about their Round Robin Championships.
Then again most of them aren't from the 6 Cos ;)
No they are just complaining that not enough of their games are on free to air. Hurling people are the biggest yaps in Ireland.
Quote from: larryin89 on May 08, 2023, 09:38:58 AM
Won't bother Galway either way shur they're fan base is piss poor till all Ireland final day . How many Galway at provincial final yesterday, 5/6 k ? It's a poor show
Yeah the Galway football support isn't great, but it's always been that way, if there's a Galway team going really well, the fairweathers will come out to support in good numbers, otherwise forget about it. Wouldn't be bothered about attendance yesterday, plenty of fans (including ones who go to most of the games like myself) made business decisions on a match that Galway were always going to win, with at least 3 more games to come.
Would be a massive issue alright if they handed out All Ireland's on the basis of "best fanbase", but they don't.
Having 3 qualify from a group of 4 makes it a bit pointless.
It's really just a run up to get teams geared for the quarters with the 1st seed a good advantage of a home game. Probably not envisioned the 3rd seeds been way stronger than the 2nd seeds.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 10:06:29 AM
Having 3 qualify from a group of 4 makes it a bit pointless.
If you're pointless you won't be getting into the knock out stages.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 10:06:29 AM
Having 3 qualify from a group of 4 makes it a bit pointless.
Not really. Another 4 drop out in the next round. That is when jeopardy kicks in. FIFA would be proud of it.
Dublin are a real mystery. They didn't replace the Harlem Globetrotters
. Neither did Barcelona. Neither did Man U.
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2023, 10:28:52 AM
Dublin are a real mystery. They didn't replace the Harlem Globetrotters
. Neither did Barcelona. Neither did Man U.
Not any mystery. U21 grade was good to Dublin with All Ireland titles won in 2010,2012,2014 and 2017 players that came out of those teams was R O'Carroll, J Cooper, J McCarthy, D Rock.J McCaffrey, D Byrne, C Kilkenny, P Mannion,J Small, B Fenton, E Lowndes; P Mannion, C Costello, N Scully,E Murchan,B Howard,C O'Callaghan,P Small.
Their last three U20 teams lost Leinster finals they'll do well to get a handful of established seniors out of those teams and keep them in place as a strong contender for Sam in the years ahead
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2023, 10:28:52 AM
Dublin are a real mystery. They didn't replace the Harlem Globetrotters
. Neither did Barcelona. Neither did Man U.
Not any mystery. U21 grade was good to Dublin with All Ireland titles won in 2010,2012,2014 and 2017 players that came out of those teams was R O'Carroll, J Cooper, J McCarthy, D Rock.J McCaffrey, D Byrne, C Kilkenny, P Mannion,J Small, B Fenton, E Lowndes; P Mannion, C Costello, N Scully,E Murchan,B Howard,C O'Callaghan,P Small.
Their last three U20 teams lost Leinster finals they'll do well to get a handful of established seniors out of those teams and keep them in place as a strong contender for Sam in the years ahead
Is Ciaran Archer still around the Dublin panel?
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on May 08, 2023, 02:59:45 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2023, 10:28:52 AM
Dublin are a real mystery. They didn't replace the Harlem Globetrotters
. Neither did Barcelona. Neither did Man U.
Not any mystery. U21 grade was good to Dublin with All Ireland titles won in 2010,2012,2014 and 2017 players that came out of those teams was R O'Carroll, J Cooper, J McCarthy, D Rock.J McCaffrey, D Byrne, C Kilkenny, P Mannion,J Small, B Fenton, E Lowndes; P Mannion, C Costello, N Scully,E Murchan,B Howard,C O'Callaghan,P Small.
Their last three U20 teams lost Leinster finals they'll do well to get a handful of established seniors out of those teams and keep them in place as a strong contender for Sam in the years ahead
Is Ciaran Archer still around the Dublin panel?
Nope. Jsst got the one league appearance I think (v Kerry in 2022). Not on the panel now.
Fixtures confirmed for the first week of the group stages (other matches on the following week)
Saturday May 20
Group 1
Kerry v Mayo, Fitzgerald Stadium, 3pm, GAAGO
Group 2
Galway v Tyrone, Pearse Stadium, 5.15pm, GAAGO
Group 4
Clare v Donegal, Cusack Park, 2pm
Sunday May 21
Group 3
Sligo v Kildare, Markievicz Park, 2.30pm
So the Kerry v Mayo and Galway v Tyrone games only available on pay-per-view
Some interesting games there. I would predict Clare to beat Donegal and I wouldn't be shocked if Sligo beat Kildare.
The other two are interesting but I would expect Kerry and Galway to prevail.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 08, 2023, 03:35:32 PM
Some interesting games there. I would predict Clare to beat Donegal and I wouldn't be shocked if Sligo beat Kildare.
The other two are interesting but I would expect Kerry and Galway to prevail.
I think there is a big game or 3 in Tyrone.
You just never know with them. It could go like last year or it could go like two years ago. Very hard to tell.
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 03:03:10 PM
Fixtures confirmed for the first week of the group stages (other matches on the following week)
Saturday May 20
Group 1
Kerry v Mayo, Fitzgerald Stadium, 3pm, GAAGO
Group 2
Galway v Tyrone, Pearse Stadium, 5.15pm, GAAGO
Group 4
Clare v Donegal, Cusack Park, 2pm
Sunday May 21
Group 3
Sligo v Kildare, Markievicz Park, 2.30pm
So the Kerry v Mayo and Galway v Tyrone games only available on pay-per-view
HQ money racket exercise.
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
I don't think people are saying all matches all the time.
But asking GAA people to stump up €12 a match to line the pockets of RTE/GAA, when the people who are being asked to pay are GAA people, most of who are already paying club subs and contributing in other ways.
It's probably not practical to have all 3 games on the Saturday live, but no reason two of them couldn't have been on RTE or TG4. Instead the GAA entered a deal designed to get more from GAA people's pockets.
I think GAA go is the GAA cutting in too much to the loyal fanbase. They have created a mini sky tv station without the fuss. How awfully commercial of us! I believe the ppv should be left up to the counties for their own club games etc.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
Yes it can be done if they put their mind to it. IMO I'd give the majority of the coverage to TG4 as they have been by far the best with their coverage and can show different matches at the same time on their APP and website online.
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
Yes it can be done if they put their mind to it. IMO I'd give the majority of the coverage to TG4 as they have been by far the best with their coverage and can show different matches at the same time on their APP and website online.
It's just not practical to broadcast games in Irish when most people have no or little understanding of it.
Theres literally never been as many games on free to air tv and people are still whining. They even offered a season pass at the start for ridiculous value compared to individual games.
Well they need to offer it again
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county’s matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
Yes it can be done if they put their mind to it. IMO I'd give the majority of the coverage to TG4 as they have been by far the best with their coverage and can show different matches at the same time on their APP and website online.
It's just not practical to broadcast games in Irish when most people have no or little understanding of it.
Theres literally never been as many games on free to air tv and people are still whining. They even offered a season pass at the start for ridiculous value compared to individual games.
Has been practical for the NFL,underage county and club championship games regardless if you don't understand Irish. Pop on the English radio coverage alongside these games if that's an issue.
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
Yes it can be done if they put their mind to it. IMO I'd give the majority of the coverage to TG4 as they have been by far the best with their coverage and can show different matches at the same time on their APP and website online.
It's just not practical to broadcast games in Irish when most people have no or little understanding of it.
Theres literally never been as many games on free to air tv and people are still whining. They even offered a season pass at the start for ridiculous value compared to individual games.
Has been practical for the NFL,underage county and club championship games regardless if you don't understand Irish. Pop on the English radio coverage alongside these games if that's an issue.
For big championship games? You are mental if you think that's acceptable coverage.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 04:57:42 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county’s matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
Yes it can be done if they put their mind to it. IMO I'd give the majority of the coverage to TG4 as they have been by far the best with their coverage and can show different matches at the same time on their APP and website online.
It's just not practical to broadcast games in Irish when most people have no or little understanding of it.
Theres literally never been as many games on free to air tv and people are still whining. They even offered a season pass at the start for ridiculous value compared to individual games.
Has been practical for the NFL,underage county and club championship games regardless if you don't understand Irish. Pop on the English radio coverage alongside these games if that's an issue.
For big championship games? You are mental if you think that's acceptable coverage.
For example plenty myself included will be watching All Ireland U20 final on Saturday on TG4 and such coverage has become acceptable and nothing mental about it. The real "big" senior championship games (All Ireland semi finals and final) will be live RTE.
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
I wonder how RTE would cope if the WC and RWC ran in parallel and only on weekends
Just buy the dodgy stick lads. f**k the greedy bastards and their GAA GO.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2023, 04:32:00 PM
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Boxing was the same. Loved the big fights in the late 80s/early 90s, Eubank Benn etc. Some great bouts. Since most matches went to sky , I have no idea who any fighters are (except maybe frampton), and have now no interest whatsoever in it.
Gaago will go the same way. We need kids looking up to gaa players and Seeing them as much as possible on tv.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 08, 2023, 05:18:28 PM
Just buy the dodgy stick lads. f**k the greedy bastards and their GAA GO.
Who exactly are the greedy bastards? The cameramen? The sound operators? The pundits?
were people complaining about tyrone gaa having thier championship games behind a paywall
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 08, 2023, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2023, 04:32:00 PM
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Boxing was the same. Loved the big fights in the late 80s/early 90s, Eubank Benn etc. Some great bouts. Since most matches went to sky , I have no idea who any fighters are (except maybe frampton), and have now no interest whatsoever in it.
Gaago will go the same way. We need kids looking up to gaa players and Seeing them as much as possible on tv.
Sky has actually lost most of the top boxing to DAZN - a further subscription only service! Everything you used to get in some shape or form relatively cheaply, has been hived off, repackaged & sold back to you as a niche subscription. The likes of Netflix were at least new and innovative, a lot of the other stuff is just outright gouging.
I honestly think the escalation of GAAGO on the island of Ireland will hasten inter county professionalism. Players aren't blind or stupid and the GPA are watching closely imo.
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 08, 2023, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2023, 04:32:00 PM
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Boxing was the same. Loved the big fights in the late 80s/early 90s, Eubank Benn etc. Some great bouts. Since most matches went to sky , I have no idea who any fighters are (except maybe frampton), and have now no interest whatsoever in it.
Gaago will go the same way. We need kids looking up to gaa players and Seeing them as much as possible on tv.
I grew up in an era where I saw Tyrone games on TV maybe 2 or max 3 times a year, and only then if you got to the latter stages of the championship. Still knew every player, their club etc. And this was before any Internet.
The greedy people are the ones demanding everything for free all of the time.
People who go to matches have to pay to see them.
Yet armchair sports viewers who haven't gone to a game of anything in years are up in arms because all inter County GAA games aren't free for them.
Sod them I say!!!
Quote from: Rossfan on May 08, 2023, 07:02:25 PM
People who go to matches have to pay to see them.
Yet armchair sports viewers who haven't gone to a game of anything in years are up in arms because all inter County GAA games aren't free for them.
Sod them I say!!!
That's not the case tho. Mugs like me are paying for everything they're not physically at and I'm sure plenty more like me.
Quote from: Eire90 on May 08, 2023, 06:04:03 PM
were people complaining about tyrone gaa having thier championship games behind a paywall
There were plenty and I understand this. But this could also be an important source of revenue for counties and I believe clubs in the future. Those who pay in to see a club game and who watch it behind a paywall know that their money is helping the GAA in Tyrone and we are very serious about that. I think that the GAAgo coverage is more of an excuse to charge plenty of Tyrone people who will be unable to afford or make a 10 hour round trip. They know who will be paying to watch. With so much football options on it will not be neutrals watching. It will not be Galway people watching as they are at home. It is to catch the Tyrone people full stop.
Quote from: rrhf on May 08, 2023, 07:44:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 08, 2023, 06:04:03 PM
were people complaining about tyrone gaa having thier championship games behind a paywall
There were plenty and I understand this. But this could also be an important source of revenue for counties and I believe clubs in the future. Those who pay in to see a club game and who watch it behind a paywall know that their money is helping the GAA in Tyrone and we are very serious about that. I think that the GAAgo coverage is more of an excuse to charge plenty of Tyrone people who will be unable to afford or make a 10 hour round trip. They know who will be paying to watch. With so much football options on it will not be neutrals watching. It will not be Galway people watching as they are at home. It is to catch the Tyrone people full stop.
There is a touch of mopery about this, the people from the county with the home game will still be paying into the match or paying to watch and the revenue helps the GAA also.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 06:18:02 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 08, 2023, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2023, 04:32:00 PM
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Boxing was the same. Loved the big fights in the late 80s/early 90s, Eubank Benn etc. Some great bouts. Since most matches went to sky , I have no idea who any fighters are (except maybe frampton), and have now no interest whatsoever in it.
Gaago will go the same way. We need kids looking up to gaa players and Seeing them as much as possible on tv.
I grew up in an era where I saw Tyrone games on TV maybe 2 or max 3 times a year, and only then if you got to the latter stages of the championship. Still knew every player, their club etc. And this was before any Internet.
The greedy people are the ones demanding everything for free all of the time.
Do you still buy an Irish News?
Quote from: Sportacus on May 08, 2023, 09:29:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 06:18:02 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 08, 2023, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2023, 04:32:00 PM
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Boxing was the same. Loved the big fights in the late 80s/early 90s, Eubank Benn etc. Some great bouts. Since most matches went to sky , I have no idea who any fighters are (except maybe frampton), and have now no interest whatsoever in it.
Gaago will go the same way. We need kids looking up to gaa players and Seeing them as much as possible on tv.
I grew up in an era where I saw Tyrone games on TV maybe 2 or max 3 times a year, and only then if you got to the latter stages of the championship. Still knew every player, their club etc. And this was before any Internet.
The greedy people are the ones demanding everything for free all of the time.
Do you still buy an Irish News?
Speaking of the Irish News Cahair O'Kane
We're not ready for GAAGO, and it isn't ready for usIT would have been very easy for RTE to throw a sheet over the mirror rather than allow Donal Óg Cusack and Jackie Tyrrell to peer into it on Sunday night.
Given that the Cork-Tipperary game in particular turned out to be a classic that hadn't been widely available to television viewers, they could have taken more time to dissect the nuts and bolts of it.
Instead they gave their pundits a platform for some introspection.
You don't see that very often, anywhere. Usually the last person to blame for anything is the one in the mirror.
When GAAGO was an ugly duckling, it seemed there was a beautiful swan within.
In times of Covid, it provided outstanding service. Virtually the whole National League, across all four divisions, was available to either stream live or watch back on demand.
The big championship games were still carved up for TV between RTÉ and Sky but the vast majority were available for online customers to watch back at any time.
For the eight years that it existed, there was vocal opposition to the Sky deal.
Some were no less vehemently against it at the end than they had been in the beginning.
BBC making a play for greater access harmed Sky's position.
There was nowhere left for Sky to go. They got thrown whatever was on a Saturday evening, a couple of decent qualifiers, their share of All-Ireland quarter-finals and a whole lot fewer subscriptions than they would have wanted because of the rise of dodgy boxes.
£50-odd a month or £100 a year (allegedly)? Legal shmegal.
Paywalls are proven to be damaging to the visibility of sport, and if left long enough, the sport itself.
Cricket, rugby, Premier League, Champions League, you name it, they've all taken the envelope and said to hell with the eyeballs.
Where they differ is that none of them have given the kind of precedence to a streaming service that the GAA have to GAAGO.
Amazon Prime has less than 10 per cent of live Premier League games shown this season.
Prime get 20. BT Sport have 53 and Sky show over 140.
It is pretty much an experiment. See how it runs a few Wednesday nights a year.
How fast the pictures can be transmitted through the internet compared to a standard television signal is the big issue in the world of instantaneous information.
If the goal is 10 seconds late on your screen, chances are you'll already know from your simultaneous scrolling that it's been scored.
GAAGO will show a total of 38 exclusive championship games from 2023 until 2018.
RTÉ television will show 31 plus the Joe McDonagh cup final, both Tailteann cup semi-finals and final.
That means GAAGO is showing 52 per cent of what is being shown live for the next five years.
The subscription element of GAAGO is one thing.
Paywalls are not good for the GAA and they're not good for supporters.
But when I purchased the Early Bird deal away back when it was announced, it cost €59 for the year. That's less than €2 a game, compared to the €13 people are now paying to buy access to individual games.
As subscriptions go, it wasn't wholly unreasonable. I'm still against the idea but it doesn't feel like a fleecing either.
The bigger problem here is that nobody is quite ready for streaming to take over.
Ireland as a country isn't ready for it. While 96 per cent of homes have access to fixed broadband, in the border (77 per cent) and midland (79 per cent) regions that figure drops way down.
There are plans to develop and improve it, but we're not there yet. The cables, like everything else, get rolled out from Dublin and can take a long time to reach Sligo or Donegal.
The platform itself can be clunky. I'm as tech savvy as any other 34-year-old, but just for a trial on Sunday night, I tried to cast a replay of Antrim-Kilkenny to my TV. There was no cast button in sight.
Football and especially hurling are not games to be consumed whole on a mobile phone.
Aside from the visibility, there's also the communal aspect of people in a room being able to watch it together on a TV screen.
Even if it had worked, in terms of live games, casting is not available on all TV sets and isn't all that handy to do is some cases. It usually comes with a further built-in time delay in transmitting the picture from phone to TV.
The coverage from the games they've done coverage from has seemed good, with Paddy Andrews, Marc Ó Sé and Michael Murphy a fairly strong team for Derry-Monaghan, to lend an example.
Mike Finnerty and Dave McIntyre are excellent commentators, as Grainne McElwain is a host.
But they've also had games with no build-up or pitchside analysis.
And that's grand when it's an alternative. When it's the place you go to for the games that you wouldn't ordinarily expect to see on your terrestrial TV station.
It's not grand for a broadcaster with exclusivity on more than half of the games every summer.
On Saturday 20 May, GAAGO will show Kerry v Mayo and then Galway v Tyrone.
Those are not only the two big ties of that weekend, but probably the two biggest ties of the entire round robin series.
Hurling has been here for a few weeks already.
The blowback ought be loud.
Like most things, this kind of slipped beneath the radar. It was as if Sky are gone, Hallelujah, who cares what happens now.
The Sky deal was many things but one thing you couldn't accuse them of was a bad package. Even the biggest begrudger would admit they did analysis well.
You either had Sky or you didn't. If you had it, you had it on your TV.
A streaming platform, by its nature, will run a number of seconds behind. In a fast-paced, high-scoring sport like hurling, seconds can be a long time.
An email from GAAGO to customers last week conceded that there were some "teething issues" on their opening weekend.
More worryingly, it told recipients that they were having issues with payment through Android phones and that they should purchase via "the website instead".
Given that around 52 per cent of phone users in Ireland use Android, it's the kind of glitch that tells you this thing isn't at the level it needs to be at to occupy the position it now holds.
GAAGO will be a great service in time. It was brilliant during Covid, and as an alternative option for secondary games that might not have squeezed their way into the TV schedule, it would have been invaluable.
But it's a massive error on the GAA's part to have made it a primary broadcaster and to have given it so many games of such significance at this point in its existence.
In his annual report, Tom Ryan said that the big advantage was that GAAGO "will give us complete flexibility and control over match selection, scheduling and how we promote our games".
The other big advantage might be some flexibility in the contracts. It's not a multi-billion pound foreign entity they've signed up with. It's part-owned by the GAA and RTÉ.
You would think in the circumstances, where it's the same vested parties from both sides of it, there has to be some wiggle-room.
Streaming is the future. Eventually it will all go that way.
But it's not the present, least of all for the GAA.
This is a move for years down the line, once the technology is tightened up and readily available to virtually everyone in the country, and when bigger sporting organisations have shown how to lead their broadcast package with it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 08, 2023, 06:18:02 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 08, 2023, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2023, 04:32:00 PM
The Gaa will reap what they sow with GAAGO, a clamour for money from the trough from the GPA. It will also do for the GAA what moving to Racing TV has done for horse racing in Ireland- absolutely f**k all.
I've bought 2 GAAGO matches so far and it really does bug me, especially as someone who went back to a Sky sub largely for the GAA.
Boxing was the same. Loved the big fights in the late 80s/early 90s, Eubank Benn etc. Some great bouts. Since most matches went to sky , I have no idea who any fighters are (except maybe frampton), and have now no interest whatsoever in it.
Gaago will go the same way. We need kids looking up to gaa players and Seeing them as much as possible on tv.
I grew up in an era where I saw Tyrone games on TV maybe 2 or max 3 times a year, and only then if you got to the latter stages of the championship. Still knew every player, their club etc. And this was before any Internet.
The greedy people are the ones demanding everything for free all of the time.
I agree, there's a level of entitlement to access everything for free these days - banking, online newspapers, sports events, people giving out about having to pay for them.
I remember when there were only 3 gaelic football games on TV back in 1990 and before - two semis and final.
If you wanted to watch a game you watched it in person, otherwise you listened to it on the radio and watched the Sunday Game. Now snowflakes young and old, expect to just be an armchair fan and see every game for free.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 08, 2023, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 08, 2023, 05:18:28 PM
Just buy the dodgy stick lads. f**k the greedy bastards and their GAA GO.
Who exactly are the greedy bastards? The cameramen? The sound operators? The pundits?
The gaa would be my guess? The people you mention would be employed regardless of how the final product was offered to the public.
From a promotional p.o.v gaago appears incredibly badly thought out. People make valid points about how it's still cheaper than going to a game etc, but the point being lost is that only those from the county or with a great interest in the sport (like posters on gaa discussion boards for example) will pay that money or even know how to go about accessing gaago. The floating sports fan is lost. Commercially does that make sense? The appeal of your product is diminished, advertising revenue gone and media rights into the future are reduced.
If gaago has a role it is in providing coverage of the non mainstream games - show the biggest games on FTA and keep gaago for the lesser games. How difficult would it be to stream all mcdonagh cup games, all tailteann cup games etc, we see it down in most counties now, this could make gaago serve a purpose.
Keep the biggest games each weekend FTA and use gaago to allow other fans who can't make it to matches to keep in touch.
For those who mentioned that rte couldn't show everything, that's why selling to different media outlets would have made sense, did TV3 have an interest this year for example?
I think this will prove a rare commercial misstep by the gaa, but time will tell.
How people watch matches is changing. GAAGO caters to this.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 08, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 08, 2023, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 08, 2023, 03:56:56 PM
The sense of entitlement from GAA people that all their county's matches should always be available live on free-to-air TV, continues to bewilder me.
On the topic
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0508/1382379-martin-on-gaago-all-matches-should-be-free-to-air/
Absolutely idiotic statements.
Either the GAA more than halves the number of championship games, or RTE opens a deviated sports channel, or his wishes are basically impossible.
It's amazing how we cope with showing every match every day on free to air channels when the soccer and rugby world cups come around. Sometimes 4 games a day during the soccer!
2 games on a Saturday and 2 on a Sunday across the championship season across the free to air channels wouldn't really be a big deal to arrange. They've even used the RTE News channel as an overflow in the past for certain events.
I wonder how RTE would cope if the WC and RWC ran in parallel and only on weekends
The Rugby World Cup is on on mostly weekends this year. Every game will be available on free to view channels. Ireland v Netherlands in the soccer clashes with Wales v Fiji, but both will be live with no extra sub needed.
As mentioned, there is nobody asking for every single game to be covered, just 2 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.
With all the criticism the round robin stages have received before a ball is even kicked, it seems a massive error not to have Kerry v Mayo and Galway v Tyrone on the telly. On paper the standout ties of all the groups. I hope those who haven't taken the plunge to spend more money stick with their principles. As Cahir pointed out, it's a mediocre unreliable service.
It's a justifiable criticism regarding the screening of games given the amount of league games we were shown earlier on in the season.
Sundays offering on tv was awful given that we all knew how each game would play out.
Definitely think we could have to revisit this compact season ( even push it til 3rd week in August ) given that nearly every club league in the country has started already and genuinely the sheer price of going to these games.
Most teams will have up 5 games between may and beginning of July, that's some amount of money heading out of a house each week .
The GAAGO situation is another unintended consequence of the split season. RTE naturally focus on the business end but the split season has
multiplied the number of games meaning that there is a concentration in May . And there is no way to predict which matches will be popular.
So it's time for the multipurpose Paraic Duffy Sky quote
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2014/0401/606068-oneill-denies-comments-were-insulting/
"Paraic Duffy and I are as conservative and traditional as you will get in the GAA. We are looking at a package here that will satisfy the broad group of people that we are trying to satisfy.
"If we want to concentrate on the number of games that are going to go (from free-to-air), there are five extra games that are going to be televised this year.
"Compared to last year, they are only nine games, not 14, that will be exclusively with Sky. Some people are saying they think it's time the thing was shaken up and those people are going to be happy. "Those that want to constantly refer to those that won't get to see those games will harp on and quite frankly you couldn't please everybody anyway and that's the nature of it."
Sin é
Rte say they can't show them all, every game in the women's World Cup will be shown live this summer.
Look at their press release last October 24th. Right at the business end of the hurling and football year.
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 09, 2023, 10:26:20 AM
Rte say they can't show them all, every game in the women's World Cup will be shown live this summer.
Look at their press release last October 24th. Right at the business end of the hurling and football year.
I doubt RTE will have multiple cameras at the women's World Cup games.
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 09, 2023, 10:34:02 AM
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 09, 2023, 10:26:20 AM
Rte say they can't show them all, every game in the women's World Cup will be shown live this summer.
Look at their press release last October 24th. Right at the business end of the hurling and football year.
I doubt RTE will have multiple cameras at the women's World Cup games.
Not even one. They'll be using the international feed. People think RTE just have to throw a camera into the boot and away they go.
There were cameras at both those hurling games, could/should have been shown live, this is one PR battle that gaa/Rte will not win.
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 09, 2023, 07:54:29 PM
There were cameras at both those hurling games, could/should have been shown live, this is one PR battle that gaa/Rte will not win.
It's not a PR battle. It's a logistics battle involving two sports running their premier competitions in tandem and RTE having a bigger purpose than wall to wall sport all weekend
Quote from: thewobbler on May 09, 2023, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 09, 2023, 07:54:29 PM
There were cameras at both those hurling games, could/should have been shown live, this is one PR battle that gaa/Rte will not win.
It's not a PR battle. It's a logistics battle involving two sports running their premier competitions in tandem and RTE having a bigger purpose than wall to wall sport all weekend
How difficult would it be to have a dedicated gaa channel with red button access to all games? Have the bigger ones on the main channel.
The appetite is there surely
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 09, 2023, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 09, 2023, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 09, 2023, 07:54:29 PM
There were cameras at both those hurling games, could/should have been shown live, this is one PR battle that gaa/Rte will not win.
It's not a PR battle. It's a logistics battle involving two sports running their premier competitions in tandem and RTE having a bigger purpose than wall to wall sport all weekend
How difficult would it be to have a dedicated gaa channel with red button access to all games? Have the bigger ones on the main channel.
The appetite is there surely
Would you be willing to pay for it on a subscription basis?
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 09, 2023, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 09, 2023, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 09, 2023, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on May 09, 2023, 07:54:29 PM
There were cameras at both those hurling games, could/should have been shown live, this is one PR battle that gaa/Rte will not win.
It's not a PR battle. It's a logistics battle involving two sports running their premier competitions in tandem and RTE having a bigger purpose than wall to wall sport all weekend
How difficult would it be to have a dedicated gaa channel with red button access to all games? Have the bigger ones on the main channel.
The appetite is there surely
Would you be willing to pay for it on a subscription basis?
Irish Times
"over the course of the calendar year the national broadcaster will televise 69 live games across the four Gaelic games codes compared to 40 in 2018."
And GAAGO will have more
In 2018 everyone was used to watching the games on RTE. SKY was a minority pursuit. Now there are far more games. People don't want to pay for them.
It's understandable.
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2023, 08:27:06 AM
It's a justifiable criticism regarding the screening of games given the amount of league games we were shown earlier on in the season.
Sundays offering on tv was awful given that we all knew how each game would play out.
Definitely think we could have to revisit this compact season ( even push it til 3rd week in August ) given that nearly every club league in the country has started already and genuinely the sheer price of going to these games.
Most teams will have up 5 games between may and beginning of July, that's some amount of money heading out of a house each week .
I'm not a fan of the split season, the condensed nature is going to lead to these sorts of problems and I believe will have hugely detrimental effects on the growth and popularity of gaa games into the future.
However, it looks like it'll remain for a few more years (until the gaa start to feel it in the pocket anyway). So why don't we tweak it a little.
Intercounty hurling isn't well suited to the weather conditions prevalent before April (football either, but at least it's somewhat watchable), so why don't we have a football season starting in January as presently happens, run until the end of July, intercounty hurling can commence with the much maligned league in April and carry on into end of August/early September. That would give the gaa a much broader window and alleviate many of the issues this concentrated schedule is bringing on.
August could see the quarters, semis and finals of the hurling.
July would have the business end of the round robin, provincial hurling finals and football semi-finals and final.
June would see hurling league finals, early round robin games and football round robin, preliminary quarters and quarters.
Would there be much impact on club hurling? Very limited impact imo, past experience indicates not much club championship action taking place in August and of course, there would only be 4 counties still involved past the first weekend of August.
As things stand, we're going to have most intercounty hurling finished in the next fortnight. Given how the top teams treated the league, that will see probably Waterford and (hopefully) Limerick to make but a few have seasons of about 7 weeks in length. Hardly logical from a promotional p.o.v.
€25 General admission for each group stage match. Season tickets will work out better value this year than previous years?
Quote from: onefineday on May 10, 2023, 01:19:09 AM
Quote from: naka on May 09, 2023, 08:27:06 AM
It's a justifiable criticism regarding the screening of games given the amount of league games we were shown earlier on in the season.
Sundays offering on tv was awful given that we all knew how each game would play out.
Definitely think we could have to revisit this compact season ( even push it til 3rd week in August ) given that nearly every club league in the country has started already and genuinely the sheer price of going to these games.
Most teams will have up 5 games between may and beginning of July, that's some amount of money heading out of a house each week .
I'm not a fan of the split season, the condensed nature is going to lead to these sorts of problems and I believe will have hugely detrimental effects on the growth and popularity of gaa games into the future.
However, it looks like it'll remain for a few more years (until the gaa start to feel it in the pocket anyway). So why don't we tweak it a little.
Intercounty hurling isn't well suited to the weather conditions prevalent before April (football either, but at least it's somewhat watchable), so why don't we have a football season starting in January as presently happens, run until the end of July, intercounty hurling can commence with the much maligned league in April and carry on into end of August/early September. That would give the gaa a much broader window and alleviate many of the issues this concentrated schedule is bringing on.
August could see the quarters, semis and finals of the hurling.
July would have the business end of the round robin, provincial hurling finals and football semi-finals and final.
June would see hurling league finals, early round robin games and football round robin, preliminary quarters and quarters.
Would there be much impact on club hurling? Very limited impact imo, past experience indicates not much club championship action taking place in August and of course, there would only be 4 counties still involved past the first weekend of August.
As things stand, we're going to have most intercounty hurling finished in the next fortnight. Given how the top teams treated the league, that will see probably Waterford and (hopefully) Limerick to make but a few have seasons of about 7 weeks in length. Hardly logical from a promotional p.o.v.
It's not necessarily the split season per se but the extra load of matches on top with the running of football and hurling simultaneously and the Sky pullout.
The GAA didn't think things through.
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 10, 2023, 03:38:27 PM
€25 General admission for each group stage match. Season tickets will work out better value this year than previous years?
Are they bringing back the €5 reduction for ST holders? Or giving us a 3 game package?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2023, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 10, 2023, 03:38:27 PM
€25 General admission for each group stage match. Season tickets will work out better value this year than previous years?
Are they bringing back the €5 reduction for ST holders? Or giving us a 3 game package?
Probably neither of these things.
However, some of these games will be tight for tickets. For instance, either Derry or Armagh is going to end up playing Tyrone and that game will be tight for tickets.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 10, 2023, 04:16:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2023, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 10, 2023, 03:38:27 PM
€25 General admission for each group stage match. Season tickets will work out better value this year than previous years?
Are they bringing back the €5 reduction for ST holders? Or giving us a 3 game package?
Probably neither of these things.
However, some of these games will be tight for tickets. For instance, either Derry or Armagh is going to end up playing Tyrone and that game will be tight for tickets.
Tighter than the Ulster final. As i said on the other thread these group matches will be unreserved ticketing which will lessen the capacity of venues.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/brian-dooher-reveals-tyrones-intense-focus-on-round-robin-challenge/1543233272.html
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2023, 03:59:25 PM
It's not necessarily the split season per se but the extra load of matches on top with the running of football and hurling simultaneously and the Sky pullout.
The GAA didn't think things through.
[/quote]
That's why I suggest tweaking the system and giving August to hurling, lessens the load for media and to use a phrase we're more familiar with from other walks of life, it would flatten the curve for the media and allow potentially much larger audiences to enjoy the games. Broadcasters would have more interest in the packages and rights revenue (and probably gate revenues) would increase. Win win for all.
Another tweak I'd suggest for the Sam Maguire series.
Pot 1 seeds - provincial winners
Pot 2 seeds - prior year TC winners and then league placings of those qualified
Pot 3 seeds - league placings of those qualified
Pot 4 seeds - league placings of those qualified
Whilst still allowing provincial finalists to qualify, they'll be seeded based on league form.
But then I'd suggest a change which would really incentivise winning provinces and league finals etc. For the group stage games, instead of playing home, away and neutral, why not play home, away and home. With pot 1 and pot 2 seeds getting 2 home games. It'd at least even things up for everyone else versus the dubs who will likely have home, away and crokes park!!
Could be a case for keeping neutral for pot 2 seeds third game instead of another home game.
I think the Provincials need to be seeded. That would cut out 1 of this year's non D1/2
There has to be a policy on promotion from D3. Last year they were included. This year not.
If there is a case where say you have 2 extra there could be a preliminary round.
The next thing is the seeding
The first seeds of provincial winners are fine.
the second seeds would be better if provincials were seeded but they still arse up the ranking in seeds 3 and 4 .
One of the problems of using the provincials is that Ulster and Connacht have most of the D1 teams. So you can have a losing team that is one of the strongest regardless of who is in the provincial final. Having Mayo and Tyrone as third seeds doesn't make sense.
The only way to ensure a decent ranking system is to base Groups 2-4 on league ranking.
Doing it half and half -ie half provincial (1 and 2) and League (3 and 4 ) is doing it arseways.
So Group 2 with Galway, probably Armagh and Tyrone has 3 of this year's D1 while Group 3 with Dublin, Sligo, Ros and the Flourbags has just 1
They could also adjust the groups for balance.
One thing they could do is reorganise the second seeds. Eg if Mayo are ranked higher than Louth they should be second seeds . Same with Tyrone and Clare. Then second seeds would be stronger and there would be more balance. For Louth and Clare what counts is access to the Sam Maguire.
Maybe it doesn't matter because it's the top 3 anyway but it will be interesting to see which group provide the quarter finalists.
I'll be surprised if the four provincial winners don't top their group and if they do it will highlight the importance of still winning it. They'll be hard to beat in the Quarter final also with the week rest advantage.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 14, 2023, 07:25:20 PM
I'll be surprised if the four provincial winners don't top their group and if they do it will highlight the importance of still winning it. They'll be hard to beat in the Quarter final also with the week rest advantage.
Where are the QFs going to be played, and will Dublin's "neutral" match be in Croke?
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 07:30:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 14, 2023, 07:25:20 PM
I'll be surprised if the four provincial winners don't top their group and if they do it will highlight the importance of still winning it. They'll be hard to beat in the Quarter final also with the week rest advantage.
Where are the QFs going to be played, and will Dublin's "neutral" match be in Croke?
Beginning of July
Derry won today but I do feel their levels may begin to fall a bit now. Could be the pick of the provincial winners
Quote from: full moon on May 14, 2023, 07:30:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 14, 2023, 07:25:20 PM
I'll be surprised if the four provincial winners don't top their group and if they do it will highlight the importance of still winning it. They'll be hard to beat in the Quarter final also with the week rest advantage.
Where are the QFs going to be played, and will Dublin's "neutral" match be in Croke?
Dublin's neutral match will not be in Croker, (unless Sligo specifically request it, which presumably is unlikely)
The four QFs are likely to be in Croke park as two double bills
Any idea where the Tyrone Westmeath game will be?
Breffni the obvious one.
Rumours (unsubstantiated) Dublin v Ros 5pm Sat 27th.
It seems like an awful lot of matches to get rid of 4 teams now especially when most people can already predict the 4 teams that will drop out anyway. I think attendances will dwindle off until the knock out games now.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2023, 01:07:28 PM
It seems like an awful lot of matches to get rid of 4 teams now especially when most people can already predict the 4 teams that will drop out anyway. I think attendances will dwindle off until the knock out games now.
they are taking 3 rounds to get rid of 4 and 4 rounds to get rid of 8 and 5 rounds to get rid of 12
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2023, 10:04:04 AM
I think the Provincials need to be seeded. That would cut out 1 of this year's non D1/2
There has to be a policy on promotion from D3. Last year they were included. This year not.
If there is a case where say you have 2 extra there could be a preliminary round.
The next thing is the seeding
The first seeds of provincial winners are fine.
the second seeds would be better if provincials were seeded but they still arse up the ranking in seeds 3 and 4 .
One of the problems of using the provincials is that Ulster and Connacht have most of the D1 teams. So you can have a losing team that is one of the strongest regardless of who is in the provincial final. Having Mayo and Tyrone as third seeds doesn't make sense.
The only way to ensure a decent ranking system is to base Groups 2-4 on league ranking.
Doing it half and half -ie half provincial (1 and 2) and League (3 and 4 ) is doing it arseways.
So Group 2 with Galway, probably Armagh and Tyrone has 3 of this year's D1 while Group 3 with Dublin, Sligo, Ros and the Flourbags has just 1
They could also adjust the groups for balance.
If you look at how they started the year, it's 3 to 1. But if you look at how they ended, it's 2-2 as regards Division 1. The ranking was based on how the league ended. While Dublin/Armagh did not need to qualify by league ranking, Dublin still had a higher ranking than Armagh (as did Derry) by virtue of their promotion to Division 1. The final Top 8 ranking was Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Tyrone, Kerry, Monaghan, Dublin, Derry. The bigger inbalance is caused by the provincial losers getting second seed status, with the exception of Ulster. Derry were 8, Armagh 9 - and going down further, Donegal 10, Louth 11, Cork 12, Kildare 13, Clare 15, Westmeath 20, Sligo 23 in the ranking.
To finish top in their groups
Group 1
Kerry 1/3
Mayo 5/2
Cork 16/1
Louth 33/1
Group 2
Galway 8/13
Tyrone 11/4
Armagh 7/2
Westmeath 80/1
Group 3
Dublin 1/5
Roscommon 11/2
Kildare 7/1
Sligo 100/1
Group 4
Derry 3/10
Monaghan 10/3
Donegal 12/1
Clare 20/1
Quote from: weareros on May 15, 2023, 04:09:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2023, 10:04:04 AM
I think the Provincials need to be seeded. That would cut out 1 of this year's non D1/2
There has to be a policy on promotion from D3. Last year they were included. This year not.
If there is a case where say you have 2 extra there could be a preliminary round.
The next thing is the seeding
The first seeds of provincial winners are fine.
the second seeds would be better if provincials were seeded but they still arse up the ranking in seeds 3 and 4 .
One of the problems of using the provincials is that Ulster and Connacht have most of the D1 teams. So you can have a losing team that is one of the strongest regardless of who is in the provincial final. Having Mayo and Tyrone as third seeds doesn't make sense.
The only way to ensure a decent ranking system is to base Groups 2-4 on league ranking.
Doing it half and half -ie half provincial (1 and 2) and League (3 and 4 ) is doing it arseways.
So Group 2 with Galway, probably Armagh and Tyrone has 3 of this year's D1 while Group 3 with Dublin, Sligo, Ros and the Flourbags has just 1
They could also adjust the groups for balance.
If you look at how they started the year, it's 3 to 1. But if you look at how they ended, it's 2-2 as regards Division 1. The ranking was based on how the league ended. While Dublin/Armagh did not need to qualify by league ranking, Dublin still had a higher ranking than Armagh (as did Derry) by virtue of their promotion to Division 1. The final Top 8 ranking was Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Tyrone, Kerry, Monaghan, Dublin, Derry. The bigger inbalance is caused by the provincial losers getting second seed status, with the exception of Ulster. Derry were 8, Armagh 9 - and going down further, Donegal 10, Louth 11, Cork 12, Kildare 13, Clare 15, Westmeath 20, Sligo 23 in the ranking.
Except where a team is only eliminated on penalties, in which case they should have the same seeding as the team they drew with.
Why should a team that were worse than the other team at penalties get the same seeding as them?
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 15, 2023, 10:43:41 PM
Why should a team that were worse than the other team at penalties get the same seeding as them?
They should not get a significantly different seeding, one place less perhaps.
Apologies if already posted but is there an open draw for the 2nd v 3rd teams or has this already been predetermined?
Quote from: square_ball on May 16, 2023, 08:52:36 AM
Apologies if already posted but is there an open draw for the 2nd v 3rd teams or has this already been predetermined?
Not been predetermined.
Teams who played each other in the provincial finals can't meet each other and if possible teams who have played each other in the group stages will be kept apart.
Would take absolutely freak results for a situation whereby teams who have played each other in the group stages would get drawn against each other.
There's no protection against drawing a team met before the provincial finals or group games.
So basically a draw where teams can draw anyone except teams they played in a provincial final (if they were in one) and most likely teams they played in the group stages.
Same rule applies for the quarter-finals as the preliminary quarter-finals.
Also for the semi-finals nothing is predetermined - the only rule about the draw is that there will be no repeat fixtures of any championship matchups if possible.
Quote from: square_ball on May 16, 2023, 08:52:36 AM
Apologies if already posted but is there an open draw for the 2nd v 3rd teams or has this already been predetermined?
Any questions about the championship can be answered here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship
Saturday May 27
Group One
Louth v Cork, Páirc Tailteann, TBC
Group Two
Armagh v Westmeath, BOX-IT Athletic Grounds, 4.45pm, GAAGO
Group Four
Derry v Monaghan, Celtic Park, 7pm, GAAGO
Sunday May 28
Group Three
Dublin v Roscommon, Croke Park, 4pm
When did Armagh's home ground get renamed to their playing style?
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 16, 2023, 02:06:19 PM
When did Armagh's home ground get renamed to their playing style?
Are you talking about Box-it, athletic or ground or all 3?
Quote from: blanketattack on May 16, 2023, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 16, 2023, 02:06:19 PM
When did Armagh's home ground get renamed to their playing style?
Are you talking about Box-it, athletic or ground or all 3?
Box-it. My poor attempt at a joke sorry
I think the decision to prioritise Dublin at the expense of Kildare and Meath (plus the others) is not only bad for the Leinster Championship. It also severely damages competition levels in the Sam Maguire. You can't take 2 big counties out and expect big crowds to turn up.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/17/sean-moran-there-are-simply-too-many-teams-in-the-all-ireland-round-robin/
Last year the quarter-finals returned but the margins were still averaging more than 0-8 and that included the Galway-Armagh tie that went to penalties. Without it the other three averaged 0-11.
So the last eight contenders for Sam Maguire were producing matches that were generally uncompetitive. This year the big chance being taken is that the round-robin field is being doubled from eight to 16.
If there was an abiding anxiety about this within the GAA it was concerning dead rubbers – matches that would mean nothing in the greater scheme of things and on all known evidence discourage crowds from attending.
If the Sam Maguire is viewed as simply a prioritising competition the continued hard-wiring of the provincial championships into the All-Ireland makes little sense. If, however, the concept of getting a shot at the big time is still important the current system is an ingenious way of offering a glimpse of motivation to counties outside the top half of the league.
Where it takes them isn't immediately obvious and the suspicion remains that there are too many teams in the round-robin series.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 16, 2023, 04:46:28 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on May 16, 2023, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 16, 2023, 02:06:19 PM
When did Armagh's home ground get renamed to their playing style?
Are you talking about Box-it, athletic or ground or all 3?
Box-it. My poor attempt at a joke sorry
I got it
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 12:44:53 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 15, 2023, 10:43:41 PM
Why should a team that were worse than the other team at penalties get the same seeding as them?
They should not get a significantly different seeding, one place less perhaps.
Derry are in a higher pot than Armagh by virtue of winning their provincial title. The league positions (Derry 8, Armagh 9) were only relevant if the teams did not reach their provincial finals.
Don't ever recall such pessimism, fatalism and indifference about a Donegal game before. All the home pundits predicting a Clare win unless there is a dramatic change in what we've seen so far this year. O'Rourke didn't even hold a press night!
Langan, McBrearty and McHugh gone for the season. Mogan out this weekend. Gallen probably playing, but will he be match fit? McFadden Ferry won't be back from injury. St Eunans O'Donnells won't be available for these games either.
Beyond the 15 we do scrape together, it will be almost all young, inexperienced players on the bench.
This will be the weakest Donegal championship line up I can recall in my 35 years watching them.
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2023, 12:13:03 AM
Don't ever recall such pessimism, fatalism and indifference about a Donegal game before. All the home pundits predicting a Clare win unless there is a dramatic change in what we've seen so far this year. O'Rourke didn't even hold a press night!
Langan, McBrearty and McHugh gone for the season. Mogan out this weekend. Gallen probably playing, but will he be match fit? McFadden Ferry won't be back from injury. St Eunans O'Donnells won't be available for these games either.
Beyond the 15 we do scrape together, it will be almost all young, inexperienced players on the bench.
This will be the weakest Donegal championship line up I can recall in my 35 years watching them.
The standard in the round robins isn't that high. Donegal could scrape through to the quarter finals with a bit of momentum.
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2023, 12:13:03 AM
Don't ever recall such pessimism, fatalism and indifference about a Donegal game before. All the home pundits predicting a Clare win unless there is a dramatic change in what we've seen so far this year. O'Rourke didn't even hold a press night!
Langan, McBrearty and McHugh gone for the season. Mogan out this weekend. Gallen probably playing, but will he be match fit? McFadden Ferry won't be back from injury. St Eunans O'Donnells won't be available for these games either.
Beyond the 15 we do scrape together, it will be almost all young, inexperienced players on the bench.
This will be the weakest Donegal championship line up I can recall in my 35 years watching them.
The standard in the round robins isn't that high. Donegal could scrape through to the quarter finals with a bit of momentum.
Doubtful.
Hope these lads acquit themselves well, but its asking a lot for the line up and squad below to do anything in championship. You'd expect to see that in McKenna Cup!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwgrMvuXwAAmpfG?format=jpg&name=medium)
Clare were relegated from D2. D2 is for teams that are either disorganised or just getting going or just visiting.
Donegal are coming from a faster, more organised place.
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 08:48:31 PM
Clare were relegated from D2. D2 is for teams that are either disorganised or just getting going or just visiting.
Donegal are coming from a faster, more organised place.
Very unluckily. Down who are shite beat Donegal. Clare have a great chance
Quote from: J70 on May 19, 2023, 08:38:07 PM
Hope these lads acquit themselves well, but its asking a lot for the line up and squad below to do anything in championship. You'd expect to see that in McKenna Cup!
Have seen much stronger Donegal line ups for the McKenna Cup. If Oisin Callen,Jason McGee starts it will improve the team but still way off the stronger starting team Donegal had last year. Clare at home with a very experienced starting team will fancy their chances to win tomorrow.
Connaught and Munster championships should not be knockout anyway because there not enough teams they should be round robin with top place in final and 2nd v 3rd in semi that means whoever qualified for sam by finishing provincial runners up would be there on merit not because they got a bye and faced a weak team.tho that would mean having those championships a bit earlier. Or they could have just giving provincial champions only auto qualifying to sam Maguire maybe they tweak next season if sligo and clare take hammerings in last 16 but they probably be hammerings anyway.
Quote from: Eire90 on May 20, 2023, 04:07:49 AM
Connaught and Munster championships should not be knockout anyway because there not enough teams they should be round robin with top place in final and 2nd v 3rd in semi that means whoever qualified for sam by finishing provincial runners up would be there on merit not because they got a bye and faced a weak team.tho that would mean having those championships a bit earlier. Or they could have just giving provincial champions only auto qualifying to sam Maguire maybe they tweak next season if sligo and clare take hammerings in last 16 but they probably be hammerings anyway.
Think in fairness to Clare they are probably a top 16 team who have been mid D2 for a brave while now and were fairly unlucky to go down. Probably 2nd best team in Munster too. No way Sligo should be top 16 though based on beating division 4 teams
Also looking at Clares group they have every chance against Donegal, Monaghan will beat them most likely but don't think it will be a hammering. Derry tanked them last year somewhat unexpectedly so it's on Clare to stop that happening again.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 20, 2023, 06:26:59 AM
Also looking at Clares group they have every chance against Donegal, Monaghan will beat them most likely but don't think it will be a hammering. Derry tanked them last year somewhat unexpectedly so it's on Clare to stop that happening again.
Clare also didn't score for the first 45min in the Derry league game this year.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 20, 2023, 06:26:59 AM
Also looking at Clares group they have every chance against Donegal, Monaghan will beat them most likely but don't think it will be a hammering. Derry tanked them last year somewhat unexpectedly so it's on Clare to stop that happening again.
Clare are the weakest team in the group
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2023, 07:46:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 20, 2023, 06:26:59 AM
Also looking at Clares group they have every chance against Donegal, Monaghan will beat them most likely but don't think it will be a hammering. Derry tanked them last year somewhat unexpectedly so it's on Clare to stop that happening again.
Clare are the weakest team in the group
They've every chance against Donegal who just look like they need the year to end. Any of the teams that' be second in the other groups will tank both though so it won't matter
Donegal with their first score after 12 mins. Clare 0-3 Donegal 0-1
Donegal struggling badly. Five wides so far. Patton had to pull off a wonder save.
4-1 Clare
Is that game in Clare?
Ennis.
6-3 Clare at the half. Deserved lead.
Both sides missing a lot of chances. Both should have a goal.
7-5 now
7-7
Donegal much better this half, but hitting some poor shots. Still 7-7
10 minutes left. Donegal hit the front for the first time.
8-7
9-8 Donegal
10-8
Six minutes left
11-8
12-8
Three minutes
12-9 with two to go
12-9
13-9 in injury time
14-9
A statement from Donegal.
Good win for Donegal should finish at least 3rd in the group now.
Full time Donegal win 0-14 to 0-9 after trailing 0-5 -0-1 at one stage.
Fair fucks to the lads under the circumstances. Good second half.
So are we looking at kerry v dublin/derry/galway in all ireland quarters? Can they face mayo. That's assuming groups play out as expected from here
Kerry the probable booby prize for some group winner now in the quarters. Presuming they get their act together after being so flat today.
i think group winners should also get home advantage for the quarter finals will give even more reasons to want to win group.
that would mean the team that finished 3rd will have to play two games away to reach semi final it should be as hard as possible for that 3rd team to win it
Quote from: Eire90 on May 21, 2023, 08:50:49 AM
i think group winners should also get home advantage for the quarter finals will give even more reasons to want to win group.
Agree, but GAA want to put these in neutral venues (double header in a full croker etc - they think it's 2008 again).
So as expected it's all about the money.
Apart from 2001 and the 2018/19 round Robins haven't the Qtr Finals always been in Croke Park?
20 minutes played in Markievicz Park Sligo 0-4 Kildare 0-3
Competitive 1st half by Sligo. Half time Sligo 0-6 Kildare 0-7
Good start to the 2nd half for Sligo. Sligo 0-9 Kildare 0-7
FT Sligo 0-14 Kildare 0-14. Good effort by the home side who played the last 8 minutes or so of the contest with 14 men. Kildare down to 13 with black and red in added time.
Good result for Sligo, with the work they are doing at underage level they are more than capable of holding their own in Div 2 in the years ahead result like today against Div 2 opposition will only breath further confidence for them. As for Kildare lack of consistency from them seen against Dublin and today.
What does that mean for Sligo and Kildare now if both lose their next 2 games? Is it score difference?
Quote from: screenexile on May 21, 2023, 05:07:19 PM
What does that mean for Sligo and Kildare now if both lose their next 2 games? Is it score difference?
Yeah scoring difference.
There will be some packed defences v Ros and the Jackeens so!
Quote from: screenexile on May 21, 2023, 05:07:19 PM
What does that mean for Sligo and Kildare now if both lose their next 2 games? Is it score difference?
It means some team will probably qualify for the preliminary 1/4 finals having won none of their round-robin games and having lost 3 games in the championship.
Quote from: blanketattack on May 21, 2023, 10:08:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 21, 2023, 05:07:19 PM
What does that mean for Sligo and Kildare now if both lose their next 2 games? Is it score difference?
It means some team will probably qualify for the preliminary 1/4 finals having won none of their round-robin games and having lost 3 games in the championship.
Sligo will have something to play for even if they are losing. Keeping the score down will be like a losing bonus point in Rugby.
The may revert to the 2011 Jim McGuinness Donegal tactic v Dublin. ;D
Kerry have drifted out to 5/2 on oddschecker.
When will fixture details be released for the 3rd / 4th June games?
If GAA GO and RTE getting two games each you'd imagine the four that would be picked are
Cork v Kerry
Kildare v Dublin
Donegal v Derry
Tyrone v Armagh
When the last round of matches arrive will teams who have won one match and lost one match be considering what type of approach to take for their final match ? ie do you rest players and have them fresh for the preliminary quarter final ?
Quote from: inroundthesquare on May 22, 2023, 05:08:57 PM
When will fixture details be released for the 3rd / 4th June games?
If GAA GO and RTE getting two games each you'd imagine the four that would be picked are
Cork v Kerry
Kildare v Dublin
Donegal v Derry
Tyrone v Armagh
It's ridiculous that the round 2 fixture details aren't confirmed already. An option for some games to be played on bank Holiday Monday June 5th taken into consideration by HQ?
Mayo v louth confirmed for 4th June 2pm in castlebar
https://twitter.com/mayogaa/status/1660693979275378697?s=46&t=RYtl0Il2l5K_ejkHKyVHiA
Round 2 fixtures
Saturday
Cork v Kerry - 3pm - GAAGO
Westmeath v Galway 5pm
Tyrone v Armagh 7pm - RTE
Kildare v Dublin 5pm - GAAGO
Sunday
Mayo v Louth 2pm - RTE
Roscommon v Sligo 3pm - GAAGO
Monaghan v Clare 2pm
Donegal v Derry 4pm - RTE
Interesting, but completely logical, that RTÉ prefer Armagh to Dublin.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2023, 06:23:26 PM
Interesting, but completely logical, that RTÉ prefer Armagh to Dublin.
Yes, because as a stakeholder in gaago they need it to be a success too and like we've already seen this year, keeping the big games behind the paywall might drive the subscriptions.
Sky did the same, Dublin games were almost always chosen where possible - numbers game...
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/23/jim-mcguinness-can-mayo-finally-find-the-consistency-to-go-all-the-way/
Jim McGuinness: Can Mayo finally find the consistency to go all the way?
McStay's side showed in Kerry they possess a kicking game, a running game and a powerful physicality to enable them go man-to-man with any opposition
Jim McGuinness
Tue May 23 2023 - 05:00
Having suffered an early Connacht championship exit, all eyes were on Mayo last Saturday in Killarney to see how they would respond. It didn't take long to get our answer.
From the first minute until the last they were really switched on. When the final whistle went, the thought struck me that we could be looking at the team with the best athletic profile in the country – they have size, speed, power and agility, all built upon a serious aerobic base.
On an afternoon when they entered the back yard of the All-Ireland champions and left with a decisive victory, having become the first team since 1995 to beat Kerry in a championship match at Fitzgerald Stadium, their opening score summed up Mayo's blueprint.
Just four minutes in, Seán O'Shea was turned over in the middle of the field and the visitors immediately set off on a blistering transitional attack, with strong running and rapid interplay involving Jordan Flynn, Matthew Ruane and eventually Jamie Carr, who forced a fine save from Shane Ryan. But Ryan O'Donoghue pounced on the rebound and popped over Mayo's first score. The speed at which they carved Kerry open was hugely impressive.
Mayo's confidence is probably their biggest asset. Different managers have come and gone, but the same mentality has remained and it allows them to play on the front foot against any opposition. It empowers them to kick the ball and go toe-to-toe in man-to-man situations all over the pitch.
Much of this is based on a belief system. Quarter of an hour in, Ryan moved out from the Kerry goal to collect a free. He then carried possession forward to the middle of the field, unchallenged, with Mayo players instead concentrating on their men – there were five man-to-man situations inside their defensive 45. And no safety net.
Learn more
Paudie Clifford sought to take advantage and made an incision, but immediately three Mayo players – including Aidan O'Shea – released from their man and swallowed up the Kerry forward, turned him over and won a free. Just 31 seconds later, Pádraig O'Hora fisted the ball over the Kerry crossbar, as Paul Geaney tried and failed to keep pace with the hard-running Mayo defender. It was another example of their brilliant transitional football.
That snapshot encapsulates the dynamic nature of how they can play the game, it's an example of Mayo's biggest strength but also possibly their biggest weakness. They can be absolutely devastating in full flight, but they always give you chances. For me that point goes to the heart of why Mayo have been such an enigma over the last 10-15 years.
It's a risk-reward system, one that facilitates an awful lot of open passages of play. With this man-to-man approach, what Mayo are really saying is: 'We're as good as you, we're not afraid of you, we are going to take you on and let's see who is left standing'.
There is no better analogy than boxing, it's the best man and the last man standing. That's the way Mayo approach much of their football.
Mayo's Aidan O'Shea with Jason Foley of Kerry in Killarney. O'Shea provides a strong focal point for the Mayo forwards. Photograph: Evan Treacy/Inpho
Their game plan is akin to Kerry and Dublin's at their best. The only thing that has differentiated those three teams in recent history has been Mayo's lack of a marquee forward. At times, Kerry and Dublin have had a couple in their ranks at the same time. It makes you wonder how many All-Irelands Mayo could have secured by now had they even one?
They still do not have that marquee forward, but in O'Shea they certainly have a player that gives their forward line a strong focal point.
One particular phase of play, which I think might be crucial to Mayo's ambitions this summer, was evident just before the half-hour mark. Kerry had 15 men defending, but rather than slowing the play down Ruane brought real directness and burst through the defensive lines. He beat four players before slipping the ball to Carr, who kicked a really good point.
We have known for many years now that Mayo can kick the ball and run it, but finding a way to unpick 15-man defensive structures has been a problem. If they have solved that puzzle now too, it will allow them to keep the scoreboard ticking over in big matches.
They also showed bravery with kick-outs last weekend. Midway through the first half there was a strong press of seven Mayo players against five Kerry defenders, which forced Ryan to go long. And that is what Mayo wanted him to do, they wanted to force a 50-50. Seán O'Shea plucked the ball from the sky in that instance, but it still demonstrated Mayo's willingness to take risks in a bid to force the game.
That all ties in with their physical profile – because once the ball goes long they are confident they have the speed and power to compete in those battles.
Kevin McStay's side have a lot of tools at their disposal, a kicking game, a running game, and the capacity to go man-to-man with any opposition. But it is their physical profile which possibly gives them an advantage over all their rivals.
If Mayo are to do the unthinkable this year, retaining the blueprint they laid down in Killarney is going to be central to that journey. They genuinely carry a scoring threat from all over the pitch and the hope within the dressingroom must be that the sum of their parts combines to negate the lack of that marquee forward.
However, as always with Mayo, the story is not about one stand-alone game. We have seen plenty of these epic performances over the years. We already know they have the capacity to match up and beat the best in the country.
Are they good enough is not the question. The question is about consistency. Have they got the capacity to repeat the trick four or five times in a row? We'll soon find out.
There's a seam in this Mayo team that runs all the way back to when Jimmy ruined football. Indeed they were the lads that finally put Jimmy to bed (2014 I think) with a savage beating in Croke. Some 12-13 years of football have taken place in that time, and Mayo have been right at the forefront of competitiveness in most every season. All without a marquee forward.
Every man, woman and dog on the street has enjoyed watching Mayo during this time. It's high energy football based on belief and personal responsibility.
If everyone tried to play football like that, we'd have the greatest game of all. Yet every club and county team across Ireland has instead tried to emulate Jimmy's "formula". All because it worked once, just happening to do so just before the great Dublin team came along.
Shame on you coaches of Ireland. Shame on you.
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 22, 2023, 06:18:27 PM
Round 2 fixtures
Saturday
Cork v Kerry - 3pm - GAAGO
Westmeath v Galway 5pm
Tyrone v Armagh 7pm - RTE
Kildare v Dublin 5pm - GAAGO
Sunday
Mayo v Louth 2pm - RTE
Roscommon v Sligo 3pm - GAAGO
Monaghan v Clare 2pm
Donegal v Derry 4pm - RTE
Fixtures nicely spread on the Saturday with a game at 3, 5 and 7 will allow neutrals to put the day in rightly. Be interesting to see what Donegal turns up not normally easy beat at home and i'm sure will gain some confidence from second half against Clare.
It's clear the goal is now profit maximisation rather than the most games to the most viewers. The RTE vested interest in GaaGo is sick.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on May 23, 2023, 03:16:52 PM
It's clear the goal is now profit maximisation rather than the most games to the most viewers. The RTE vested interest in GaaGo is sick.
If the goal was profit maximisation the 30 or so matches screened by RTE would not be free to air.
The profit GAAGO makes is marginal.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 23, 2023, 08:56:12 AM
There's a seam in this Mayo team that runs all the way back to when Jimmy ruined football. Indeed they were the lads that finally put Jimmy to bed (2014 I think) with a savage beating in Croke. Some 12-13 years of football have taken place in that time, and Mayo have been right at the forefront of competitiveness in most every season. All without a marquee forward.
Every man, woman and dog on the street has enjoyed watching Mayo during this time. It's high energy football based on belief and personal responsibility.
If everyone tried to play football like that, we'd have the greatest game of all. Yet every club and county team across Ireland has instead tried to emulate Jimmy's "formula". All because it worked once, just happening to do so just before the great Dublin team came along.
Shame on you coaches of Ireland. Shame on you.
Small point of correction: Mayo hammered Donegal in 2013. Donegal came back the following year to make the final after beating Dublin. Fortunately, we didn't play Mayo that year. They've had our number since 2012. Hope they finally win it this year.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 23, 2023, 08:56:12 AM
There’s a seam in this Mayo team that runs all the way back to when Jimmy ruined football. Indeed they were the lads that finally put Jimmy to bed (2014 I think) with a savage beating in Croke. Some 12-13 years of football have taken place in that time, and Mayo have been right at the forefront of competitiveness in most every season. All without a marquee forward.
Every man, woman and dog on the street has enjoyed watching Mayo during this time. It’s high energy football based on belief and personal responsibility.
If everyone tried to play football like that, we’d have the greatest game of all. Yet every club and county team across Ireland has instead tried to emulate Jimmy’s “formula”. All because it worked once, just happening to do so just before the great Dublin team came along.
Shame on you coaches of Ireland. Shame on you.
Club teams was playing defensive football long before Jim McGuinness became manager of Donegal. The way Donegal played in 2012 and the win against Dublin in 2014 was good but couldn't be copied at club level as it takes serious fitness and conditioning. Likewise Mayo style of full of running whereby their team is filled high conditioned athletes who have the physical strength, speed, or endurance to carry out that style of play.
Even the top level club teams have lads with bellies and big asses on them they'd be gassed within 20 minutes trying to copy what Mayo did on Saturday.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 23, 2023, 08:56:12 AM
There's a seam in this Mayo team that runs all the way back to when Jimmy ruined football. Indeed they were the lads that finally put Jimmy to bed (2014 I think) with a savage beating in Croke. Some 12-13 years of football have taken place in that time, and Mayo have been right at the forefront of competitiveness in most every season. All without a marquee forward.
Every man, woman and dog on the street has enjoyed watching Mayo during this time. It's high energy football based on belief and personal responsibility.
If everyone tried to play football like that, we'd have the greatest game of all. Yet every club and county team across Ireland has instead tried to emulate Jimmy's "formula". All because it worked once, just happening to do so just before the great Dublin team came along.
Shame on you coaches of Ireland. Shame on you.
This is almost entirely made up
After round one half complete we can begin to see the importance of finishing 2nd for the preliminary qfs. With tyrone and Kerry losing we can safely assume they won't be finishing 1st. Very strong possibility of Dublin and Derry topping their groups so we could see the following in the preliminary.
2nd Place
Tyrone (choosing tyrone as a i have them slight favs home advantage plus 2 week break)
Kerry
Monaghan (putting them ahead of Donegal)
Rossies
3rd Place
Louth/Cork
Armagh
Kildare
Donegal
Going to be a huge advantage securing 2nd over 3rd place, slipping into 3rd suddenly makes getting to the QFs a huge ask. Who is going to fancy a trip to Kilarney or Clones in a do or die game?
Mind you with Ros' home Championship record we might be better getting an away fixture!
Topping the Group means avoiding 3 games in successive weekends.
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 24, 2023, 01:50:00 PM
After round one half complete we can begin to see the importance of finishing 2nd for the preliminary qfs. With tyrone and Kerry losing we can safely assume they won't be finishing 1st. Very strong possibility of Dublin and Derry topping their groups so we could see the following in the preliminary.
2nd Place
Tyrone (choosing tyrone as a i have them slight favs home advantage plus 2 week break)
Kerry
Monaghan (putting them ahead of Donegal)
Rossies
3rd Place
Louth/Cork
Armagh
Kildare
Donegal
Going to be a huge advantage securing 2nd over 3rd place, slipping into 3rd suddenly makes getting to the QFs a huge ask. Who is going to fancy a trip to Kilarney or Clones in a do or die game?
Yeah massive advantage finishing first (obviously) but much more important to come second rather than third looking at that. We'll obviously be aiming to top the group but a big ask to beat both Galway and Tyrone.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 24, 2023, 02:11:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 24, 2023, 01:50:00 PM
After round one half complete we can begin to see the importance of finishing 2nd for the preliminary qfs. With tyrone and Kerry losing we can safely assume they won't be finishing 1st. Very strong possibility of Dublin and Derry topping their groups so we could see the following in the preliminary.
2nd Place
Tyrone (choosing tyrone as a i have them slight favs home advantage plus 2 week break)
Kerry
Monaghan (putting them ahead of Donegal)
Rossies
3rd Place
Louth/Cork
Armagh
Kildare
Donegal
Going to be a huge advantage securing 2nd over 3rd place, slipping into 3rd suddenly makes getting to the QFs a huge ask. Who is going to fancy a trip to Kilarney or Clones in a do or die game?
Yeah massive advantage finishing first (obviously) but much more important to come second rather than third looking at that. We'll obviously be aiming to top the group but a big ask to beat both Galway and Tyrone.
Would agree with that. With no repeat pairings if Armagh finished third 1/3 chance of Kerry away and the rossies or monaghan while winnable games be tough on the road.
I was looking back over the last 20 years at what teams were making the AI semifinals the most and have listed below, the last 10 years semi finalists. No surprise with the top 3 anyway although amazing Tipp have made more semis than any other Ulster team bar Tyrone. Interestingly back in the 00's you had Cork and Meath up there too.
Obviously for years we are used to Kerry and Dublin being the two main favourites to make it into the semis or the final but Mayo in the last 10 years have joined them with Galway nowhere to be seen for years until recently.
The Ulster champions have a tendency to put in great performances in Ulster and provide good early form but then often disappoint in Croker. Donegal and Monaghan have been doing this for years although Derry reached their first semi last year since 2004, although they did easily hammer Clare.
Galway lost to the Super Dubs in 2018 whilst Monaghan made their first semifinal since the All Ireland series started but still struggle to win in HQ.
In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender. Tyrone hadn't beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo from 2008 until 2021 although they did get to a few semis.
I'm a little surprised how many people are talking up this Galway team who got to the final last year but hadn't beaten any of so called big guns on the way. They beat the Rossies in the Connacht final and then struggled to beat Armagh. They did beat Derry quite well in the end in a very defensive match with both teams seemingly at similar levels during the league.
Galway put up a good performance in the final but in my eyes they are being slightly over stated as one of this years strong favourites just on last years showing. I suppose they have improved a bit during the league and with Walsh and Comer in their team they are always in with a good shout. In my eyes Walsh didn't really stand out all year except in the final whilst Comer was the opposite.
I'm sure Mayo are loving such talk and would relish meeting them later in the year.
Team Semifinal appearances in last 10 years
Dublin 10
Kerry 8
Mayo 8
Tyrone 6
Galway 2
Tipp 2
Donegal 1
Derry 1
Monaghan1
Cavan 1
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 25, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I was looking back over the last 20 years at what teams were making the AI semifinals the most and have listed below, the last 10 years semi finalists. No surprise with the top 3 anyway although amazing Tipp have made more semis than any other Ulster team bar Tyrone. Interestingly back in the 00's you had Cork and Meath up there too.
Obviously for years we are used to Kerry and Dublin being the two main favourites to make it into the semis or the final but Mayo in the last 10 years have joined them with Galway nowhere to be seen for years until recently.
The Ulster champions have a tendency to put in great performances in Ulster and provide good early form but then often disappoint in Croker. Donegal and Monaghan have been doing this for years although Derry reached their first semi last year since 2004, although they did easily hammer Clare.
Galway lost to the Super Dubs in 2018 whilst Monaghan made their first semifinal since the All Ireland series started but still struggle to win in HQ.
In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender. Tyrone hadn't beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo from 2008 until 2021 although they did get to a few semis.
I'm a little surprised how many people are talking up this Galway team who got to the final last year but hadn't beaten any of so called big guns on the way. They beat the Rossies in the Connacht final and then struggled to beat Armagh. They did beat Derry quite well in the end in a very defensive match with both teams seemingly at similar levels during the league.
Galway put up a good performance in the final but in my eyes they are being slightly over stated as one of this years strong favourites just on last years showing. I suppose they have improved a bit during the league and with Walsh and Comer in their team they are always in with a good shout. In my eyes Walsh didn't really stand out all year except in the final whilst Comer was the opposite.
I'm sure Mayo are loving such talk and would relish meeting them later in the year.
Team Semifinal appearances in last 10 years
Dublin 10
Kerry 8
Mayo 8
Tyrone 6
Galway 2
Tipp 2
Donegal 1
Derry 1
Monaghan1
Cavan 1
Also interesting about the last 10 years is that the same 4 teams- Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo - appeared in the semi finals on 5 occasions -2013,2015, 2017, 2019 and 2021
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 25, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I was looking back over the last 20 years at what teams were making the AI semifinals the most and have listed below, the last 10 years semi finalists. No surprise with the top 3 anyway although amazing Tipp have made more semis than any other Ulster team bar Tyrone. Interestingly back in the 00's you had Cork and Meath up there too.
Obviously for years we are used to Kerry and Dublin being the two main favourites to make it into the semis or the final but Mayo in the last 10 years have joined them with Galway nowhere to be seen for years until recently.
The Ulster champions have a tendency to put in great performances in Ulster and provide good early form but then often disappoint in Croker. Donegal and Monaghan have been doing this for years although Derry reached their first semi last year since 2004, although they did easily hammer Clare.
Galway lost to the Super Dubs in 2018 whilst Monaghan made their first semifinal since the All Ireland series started but still struggle to win in HQ.
In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender. Tyrone hadn't beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo from 2008 until 2021 although they did get to a few semis.
I'm a little surprised how many people are talking up this Galway team who got to the final last year but hadn't beaten any of so called big guns on the way. They beat the Rossies in the Connacht final and then struggled to beat Armagh. They did beat Derry quite well in the end in a very defensive match with both teams seemingly at similar levels during the league.
Galway put up a good performance in the final but in my eyes they are being slightly over stated as one of this years strong favourites just on last years showing. I suppose they have improved a bit during the league and with Walsh and Comer in their team they are always in with a good shout. In my eyes Walsh didn't really stand out all year except in the final whilst Comer was the opposite.
I'm sure Mayo are loving such talk and would relish meeting them later in the year.
Team Semifinal appearances in last 10 years
Dublin 10
Kerry 8
Mayo 8
Tyrone 6
Galway 2
Tipp 2
Donegal 1
Derry 1
Monaghan1
Cavan 1
Don't necessarily disagree with the overall thesis that Galway are being overrated at the minute and have a lot to prove, but is the win over Mayo in Connacht first round last year worth nothing given they were in the final the previous year? Are we back to wins bring irrelevant unless they are at the knockout stage, I know that's what some Mayo fans have said. Or do you mean you have to beat Kerry or Dublin. What would constitute beating a big gun this year? Genuine question by the way, take no offence at anything negative said there about Galway.
Point of order on Galway Derry though, played them twice and dismantled them both times.
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on May 25, 2023, 09:25:21 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 25, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I was looking back over the last 20 years at what teams were making the AI semifinals the most and have listed below, the last 10 years semi finalists. No surprise with the top 3 anyway although amazing Tipp have made more semis than any other Ulster team bar Tyrone. Interestingly back in the 00's you had Cork and Meath up there too.
Obviously for years we are used to Kerry and Dublin being the two main favourites to make it into the semis or the final but Mayo in the last 10 years have joined them with Galway nowhere to be seen for years until recently.
The Ulster champions have a tendency to put in great performances in Ulster and provide good early form but then often disappoint in Croker. Donegal and Monaghan have been doing this for years although Derry reached their first semi last year since 2004, although they did easily hammer Clare.
Galway lost to the Super Dubs in 2018 whilst Monaghan made their first semifinal since the All Ireland series started but still struggle to win in HQ.
In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender. Tyrone hadn't beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo from 2008 until 2021 although they did get to a few semis.
I'm a little surprised how many people are talking up this Galway team who got to the final last year but hadn't beaten any of so called big guns on the way. They beat the Rossies in the Connacht final and then struggled to beat Armagh. They did beat Derry quite well in the end in a very defensive match with both teams seemingly at similar levels during the league.
Galway put up a good performance in the final but in my eyes they are being slightly over stated as one of this years strong favourites just on last years showing. I suppose they have improved a bit during the league and with Walsh and Comer in their team they are always in with a good shout. In my eyes Walsh didn't really stand out all year except in the final whilst Comer was the opposite.
I'm sure Mayo are loving such talk and would relish meeting them later in the year.
Team Semifinal appearances in last 10 years
Dublin 10
Kerry 8
Mayo 8
Tyrone 6
Galway 2
Tipp 2
Donegal 1
Derry 1
Monaghan1
Cavan 1
Don't necessarily disagree with the overall thesis that Galway are being overrated at the minute and have a lot to prove, but is the win over Mayo in Connacht first round last year worth nothing given they were in the final the previous year? Are we back to wins bring irrelevant unless they are at the knockout stage, I know that's what some Mayo fans have said. Or do you mean you have to beat Kerry or Dublin. What would constitute beating a big gun this year? Genuine question by the way, take no offence at anything negative said there about Galway.
Point of order on Galway Derry though, played them twice and dismantled them both times.
I think putting it up to Kerry in the final last year probably gives Galway more clout than beating Mayo, because it works different when playing your neighbour and rival (see Mayo v Roscommon this year). saying that, beating Mayo last year + good showing in AIF + performances to date from Galway this year + recognisably decent players in every position is what maybe accelerates them in the rankings vs past performance as expected above. That and the lack of an obvious clear favourite.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 25, 2023, 05:26:48 PM
I was looking back over the last 20 years at what teams were making the AI semifinals the most and have listed below, the last 10 years semi finalists. No surprise with the top 3 anyway although amazing Tipp have made more semis than any other Ulster team bar Tyrone. Interestingly back in the 00's you had Cork and Meath up there too.
Obviously for years we are used to Kerry and Dublin being the two main favourites to make it into the semis or the final but Mayo in the last 10 years have joined them with Galway nowhere to be seen for years until recently.
The Ulster champions have a tendency to put in great performances in Ulster and provide good early form but then often disappoint in Croker. Donegal and Monaghan have been doing this for years although Derry reached their first semi last year since 2004, although they did easily hammer Clare.
Galway lost to the Super Dubs in 2018 whilst Monaghan made their first semifinal since the All Ireland series started but still struggle to win in HQ.
In my eyes it's only when you really beat one of the top 3 or 4 teams from the year before that you be truly considered an AI contender. Tyrone hadn't beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo from 2008 until 2021 although they did get to a few semis.
I'm a little surprised how many people are talking up this Galway team who got to the final last year but hadn't beaten any of so called big guns on the way. They beat the Rossies in the Connacht final and then struggled to beat Armagh. They did beat Derry quite well in the end in a very defensive match with both teams seemingly at similar levels during the league.
Galway put up a good performance in the final but in my eyes they are being slightly over stated as one of this years strong favourites just on last years showing. I suppose they have improved a bit during the league and with Walsh and Comer in their team they are always in with a good shout. In my eyes Walsh didn't really stand out all year except in the final whilst Comer was the opposite.
I'm sure Mayo are loving such talk and would relish meeting them later in the year.
Team Semifinal appearances in last 10 years
Dublin 10
Kerry 8
Mayo 8
Tyrone 6
Galway 2
Tipp 2
Donegal 1
Derry 1
Monaghan1
Cavan 1
Tyrone are an interesting country to look at from that list. They played Ulster teams in the QFs the years they progressed and the one year they played a non Ulster team (Mayo 2016), they lost.
2013 Monaghan
2015 Monaghan
2017 Armagh
2018 Donegal
In 2019 they shared a Super 8 group with Dublin, Roscommon, Cork and obviously progressed without any issue.
I would say beating Donegal in Ballybofey in 2018 is by far the pick of those victories with the rest being fairly reasonable draws when you look at who they could have gotten.
If you compare them with the other dominant Ulster team of that era, Donegal, it's pretty interesting. Their QF opponents in those year were:
2013 Mayo
2015 Mayo
2016 Dublin
2018 Tyrone
2019 Mayo
Quite a stark comparison.
Very good point and one I wasn't aware of.
A good draw in the quarters certainly makes life a lot easier and no wonder Monaghan are fed up seeing the sight of Tyrone.
They've had a few good results against us in Ulster but just seems they can't get across the line in Croker.
I don't think it was the fact that it was Ulster teams though that we were beating and non Ulster Donegal were losing to.
I think it was Donegal kept meeting one of the big 3 whereas we mainly avoided them til the semi or final.
Likewise Galway got to the final last year avoiding Dublin, Kerry and Mayo.
Yes that 2018 away win to Donegal in the super 8s was probably our best performance in the last 10 years. Well maybe after beating Kerry in 2021.
I always thought you timing your peak better was the reason why Monaghan or Donegal didn't do better in the latter stages.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/03/23/donegal-gaa-have-questions-to-answer-after-a-disastrous-few-months/Brian McEniff, manager of the county's first All-Ireland winners in 1992, is hopeful things can get back on track but concedes that the blow to development is a major concern.
"There is an advantage that some of the counties on the western seaboard have. We have a population of nearly 170,000, which gives us a distinct advantage over, say, the Monaghans."
Monaghan's Aughrim is population size. Fermanagh has a similar problem. Antrim has no excuse.
3 close dramatic games today and the Joe McDonagh Final was something else too.
Gaelic games...what a gem we have in this Country!!
It's embarrassing in this day and age watching an inter county game with grass banks behind the goals.
Quote from: clarshack on May 27, 2023, 10:26:46 PM
It's embarrassing in this day and age watching an inter county game with grass banks behind the goals.
Well it is less embarrassing than having to go to a stadium with a grass bank behind the goals because you do not have one.
The Pairc Tailteann redevelopment did not proceed owing to construction inflation, but they got some extra money I think before the selling of passports was abolished.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 26, 2023, 05:13:51 PM
I don't think it was the fact that it was Ulster teams though that we were beating and non Ulster Donegal were losing to.
I think it was Donegal kept meeting one of the big 3 whereas we mainly avoided them til the semi or final.
Likewise Galway got to the final last year avoiding Dublin, Kerry and Mayo.
Galway beat Mayo last year. I feel like I'm on crazy pills how often this is overlooked to suit some spurious point.
Dublin and Kerry were on the other side of the draw so they could only meet one of them in the final.Which they did. They weren't good enough last year.
What the games to date show is the imbalance between the provinces this year and the lack of definitiveness of the provincial results.
It makes the championship more interesting.
Most notable point from that list of semi-finalists is the absence of Cork who had contested all Ireland semis every year from 2005 to 2010. Worrying for the GAA imo, especially when considering that the hurlers haven't won Liam since 2005 and have only had one decent stab at it since then too.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/31/sean-moran-this-is-a-wide-open-football-championship-but-who-will-get-the-decisive-bounce/
Week after week, media and public have vibrated with approval at the Munster hurling championship and its succession of fire-eating performers sequentially outdoing each other while football has plodded along playing the harmonica.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/01/ciaran-murphy-gaelic-football-in-pressing-need-of-fundamental-reform/
The weekend just gone offered up a bracing reaffirmation of what has been happening for the last couple of years. And this isn't really a scathing criticism of the game as it's currently being played – it's just the reality. The boring thing to do is now also, almost always, the right thing to do.
So Roscommon holding on to the ball for over six minutes in their own defensive third and middle third is boring to watch. It is also without doubt the right thing to do, as proved by the point they kicked at the end of that now famous phase of possession, 77 passes, almost 10 per cent of the total game time, and a score to finish. It brooks no argument.
On Saturday, Westmeath had three minutes and 50 seconds of basically uncontested, and uninterrupted, possession at the start of the second half.
Monaghan had been comprehensively outplayed by Derry four weeks before their rematch on Saturday. They learned their lessons, and one of the key lessons was that they would have to drop their two best attacking threats, Conor McManus and Jack McCarron.
. It takes no skill whatsoever to hold on to possession inside your own half and hand-pass the ball back and forth between your goalkeeper and full-back line. All it takes is patience, and discipline. And it is, under the current rules, absolutely the right thing to do for many teams.
A few months ago, Denis Walsh wrote in this paper about Limerick's hurlers' laissez-faire attitude towards wides. Give the ball to the right player in the right position enough times, accept that there will be a few wides, and take your shot. The team that takes more shots usually wins the game.
That has not infiltrated Gaelic football. The refusal to take on a shot, even when you have 14 or 15 of your own players inside the opponents' 65, is a real part of the frustration for the spectator. You're in an ideal position to press the kick-out, even if the ball goes wide, and you have every chance of winning that kick-out if you force the ball to go long. It might go over, and if it doesn't, at least you haven't wasted three minutes of game time searching for a chance that might not materialise anyway.
Teams have likely crunched the numbers and realised that two or three minutes of possession football aids recovery, slows down the game, and is risk-free. I always thought a tactical innovation would naturally happen that would bend the game back towards more kicks to a contest, more scores, more attacks, and more excitement.
But the reality is that it may not happen, that it hasn't happened. Rather than walking around the edges of the problem, it might be time for the big idea – whether that's a shot clock, or a restriction on how many players you can have inside your own half, or restricting the use of the handpass.
If the last few weeks have proved anything, it's that managers are now smart enough to adapt to whatever the new reality is. At the moment they're expertly playing the hand they're dealt by the rule book. We thought the game would fix itself. It hasn't.
They wanted Rory Beggan, and 14 athletes. And it was the right thing to do. I can't say it enough times. Every one of these selection or stylistic decisions was correct. It doesn't mean it didn't make me a little sad, though. Any sport that sees selecting an attacker of the luminous ability of McManus as an unconscionable risk is probably in need of a course correction.
Round 3 fixtures confirmed
Saturday June 17
Group Four
Clare v Derry,Pearse Park, 6pm
Donegal v Monaghan, Healy Park, 6pm
Sunday June 18
Group One
Kerry v Louth, O'Moore Park, 2pm
Cork v Mayo, Gaelic Grounds, 2pm
Group Two
Armagh v Galway,Páirc Seán MacDiarmada, 4pm
Westmeath v Tyrone, Breffni Park, 4pm
Group Three
Dublin v Sligo, Breffni park, 1.45pm
Kildare v Roscommon, O'Connor Park, 1.45pm
Be lucky if they get 5k in limerick for that
should be neutral provinces
Again why isn't half of the fixtures played Saturday? Be interesting too see what type of crowds attend these games, only Clare have nothing to play for but pride.
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2023, 06:15:00 PM
Be lucky if they get 5k in limerick for that
Should at least be 10k I can imagine.
I think all fixtures should be on at the same time. The situation could arise where the last teams playing could look at who has finished 2nd and 3rd in the other groups, and then throw their own game to get a potentially easier draw.
you cant cater for every outcome just in the small chance a team would rather come 3rd than 2nd which means throwing away a home game quarter finals should be played at the home of group winners if you come 3rd it should mean you have to go on the road twice to get to semi finals it should be that coming 3rd makes it very hard to win the all ireland while still giving them a chance so we get no dead rubbers in round 3 of group games.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/sean-moran-football-needs-to-stop-obsessing-over-form-and-pay-attention-to-substance/A final point about form: surely there is no need in future to elevate the seeding of provincial finalists – whatever about champions – in the composition of the groups. The league standings have been extraordinarily accurate in predicting the outcome and should simply underpin the seeding of everyone from five to 16.
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Mayo don't even have one marquee forward. They don't produce them, for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nFGkGbs4DE&t=1012s
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Mayo don't even have one marquee forward. They don't produce them, for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nFGkGbs4DE&t=1012s
They have the top scorer of all time, I'm no fan of O'Connor because of his other antics but he scores often and scores heavy, how is that not marquee?
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Mayo don't even have one marquee forward. They don't produce them, for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nFGkGbs4DE&t=1012s
They have the top scorer of all time, I'm no fan of O'Connor because of his other antics but he scores often and scores heavy, how is that not marquee?
He is some freetaker but at the business end in all of those finals Mayo always seemed to come up against a scoring ceiling. This problem is very old. A marquee forward would have fixed it with a bit of support.
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Mayo don't even have one marquee forward. They don't produce them, for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nFGkGbs4DE&t=1012s
They have the top scorer of all time, I'm no fan of O'Connor because of his other antics but he scores often and scores heavy, how is that not marquee?
He is some freetaker but at the business end in all of those finals Mayo always seemed to come up against a scoring ceiling. This problem is very old. A marquee forward would have fixed it with a bit of support.
He kicked the equaliser for the draw 2016 final and it was not some easy tap over free, just inside the 45 and as high pressure a kick as you'd get. Middling lads don't get that score, I don't think on mature reflection that he is the reason they lost any of the finals, you mention a lack of support for a "marquee", I'd say that's more the issue.
I can't believe I'm having to defend a player I absolutely can't stand but here we are.
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Mayo don't even have one marquee forward. They don't produce them, for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nFGkGbs4DE&t=1012s
They have the top scorer of all time, I'm no fan of O'Connor because of his other antics but he scores often and scores heavy, how is that not marquee?
He is some freetaker but at the business end in all of those finals Mayo always seemed to come up against a scoring ceiling. This problem is very old. A marquee forward would have fixed it with a bit of support.
He kicked the equaliser for the draw 2016 final and it was not some easy tap over free, just inside the 45 and as high pressure a kick as you'd get. Middling lads don't get that score, I don't think on mature reflection that he is the reason they lost any of the finals, you mention a lack of support for a "marquee", I'd say that's more the issue.
I can't believe I'm having to defend a player I absolutely can't stand but here we are.
The main problem is a lack of scoring forwards and no sign of a culture of producing them. Mayo would be morchuid runners, gannchuid shooters and that problem goes back to the 90s if not before. Something got lost post 1951.
The great struggle of Connacht football between 1995 and 1999 was settled by 2 scoring forwards- Joyce and Donnellan. Mayo got very close in 96 and 97 but no cigar.
You need scoring forwards to win stuff. Frees are not enough.
Tommy conroy , James Carr & Ryan o donoghue might prove ya wrong someday sea food .
Quote from: larryin89 on June 07, 2023, 03:11:54 PM
Tommy conroy , James Carr & Ryan o donoghue might prove ya wrong someday sea food .
I would love to see it.
Mayo had the championship top scoring forward in Cillian O'Connor and footballer of the year forward in Andy Moran. Downfall in AI finals for Mayo especially under Horan was conceding goals.
2012 v Donegal 2-11 to 0-13 (13 scores each)
2013 v Dublin 2-12 to 1-14 (14 scores v 15)
2020 v Dublin 2-14 to 0-15 (16 scores v 15)
2021 v Tyrone 2-14 to 0-15 (16 scores v 15)
Then you had the drawn final under Rochford in 2016 where two OGs was conceded. He decided to change the keeper for the replay a gamble that didn't pay off as he gifted a penalty to Dublin in a match lost by 1 point.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 07, 2023, 05:50:48 PM
Mayo had the championship top scoring forward in Cillian O'Connor and footballer of the year forward in Andy Moran. Downfall in AI finals for Mayo especially under Horan was conceding goals.
2012 v Donegal 2-11 to 0-13 (13 scores each)
2013 v Dublin 2-12 to 1-14 (14 scores v 15)
2020 v Dublin 2-14 to 0-15 (16 scores v 15)
2021 v Tyrone 2-14 to 0-15 (16 scores v 15)
Then you had the drawn final under Rochford in 2016 where two OGs was conceded. He decided to change the keeper for the replay a gamble that didn't pay off as he gifted a penalty to Dublin in a match lost by 1 point.
15 points was enough to win the all Ireland in only 5 of the last 22 finals.
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 06:24:36 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 07, 2023, 05:50:48 PM
Mayo had the championship top scoring forward in Cillian O'Connor and footballer of the year forward in Andy Moran. Downfall in AI finals for Mayo especially under Horan was conceding goals.
2012 v Donegal 2-11 to 0-13 (13 scores each)
2013 v Dublin 2-12 to 1-14 (14 scores v 15)
2020 v Dublin 2-14 to 0-15 (16 scores v 15)
2021 v Tyrone 2-14 to 0-15 (16 scores v 15)
Then you had the drawn final under Rochford in 2016 where two OGs was conceded. He decided to change the keeper for the replay a gamble that didn't pay off as he gifted a penalty to Dublin in a match lost by 1 point.
15 points was enough to win the all Ireland in only 5 of the last 22 finals.
Yes because the opposition concedes too much and as highlighted Mayo more often than not in that regard.
Finnerty was excellent in the ai final last year. I thought it was a very underrated performance as he sent Walsh in a lot of quality ball whacked to his performance.
Quote from: sensini on June 07, 2023, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 03:08:04 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 11:04:20 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 07, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 07, 2023, 05:27:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/07/darragh-o-se-dublin-are-being-written-off-and-thats-what-they-will-like/
Mayo kept tipping and tapping away against Louth, but struggled to kick points the way they did against Kerry. Sure, Matthew Ruane kicked a great point, Paddy Durcan later on too, but they didn't get the same spread of scorers, or range of kickers, as the last day.
That's still their Achilles heel and could come back to haunt them. They don't have the consistent range of kickers that Dublin or Galway have right now.
The talk of Galway depth upfront is overplayed.
In terms of the forwards, outside of Comer and Walsh, no one has put up a big match winning scoring contribution in a match that mattered in CP. Galway depth at the minute is in the middle eight, plenty of lads in HF line that can chip in with one or two points (maybe that's all that will be needed but we didn't get it in the final last year) but would be worried that Walsh is miles out of form. Galway really need another heavy scorer to step up, Finnerty could be that player but he's been injured all year basically, if the ankle has hobbled him again then forget any meaningful impact this year given how much of the IC season is left. Tierney has it in him but needs to do it more often, Ian Burke is never going to be that big scorer, Cooke will get scores but unrealistic to expect 4 points from him every day given his role. Galway are really poor at finishing goal chances this year as well, my biggest worry about the team is up front to be honest.
Mayo don't even have one marquee forward. They don't produce them, for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nFGkGbs4DE&t=1012s
They have the top scorer of all time, I'm no fan of O'Connor because of his other antics but he scores often and scores heavy, how is that not marquee?
He is some freetaker but at the business end in all of those finals Mayo always seemed to come up against a scoring ceiling. This problem is very old. A marquee forward would have fixed it with a bit of support.
He kicked the equaliser for the draw 2016 final and it was not some easy tap over free, just inside the 45 and as high pressure a kick as you'd get. Middling lads don't get that score, I don't think on mature reflection that he is the reason they lost any of the finals, you mention a lack of support for a "marquee", I'd say that's more the issue.
I can't believe I'm having to defend a player I absolutely can't stand but here we are.
The main problem is a lack of scoring forwards and no sign of a culture of producing them. Mayo would be morchuid runners, gannchuid shooters and that problem goes back to the 90s if not before. Something got lost post 1951.
The great struggle of Connacht football between 1995 and 1999 was settled by 2 scoring forwards- Joyce and Donnellan. Mayo got very close in 96 and 97 but no cigar.
You need scoring forwards to win stuff. Frees are not enough.
Galway forwards outside of Shane Walsh and possibly Comer are unproven on the big day. Tierney and Larry Finnerty big tallies in league and against minnows in Connacht.
You counting Roscommon in the minnows? Their top class performances have come against them I suppose to be fair
Ian Burke had top class performances v Kerry in Croker in 2017 and 2018. Was very lively v Dublin in 2018 semi in the first half, until Galway got killed in the second. Don't think he's played IC there since, only winning in club
RTE selected games for round 3 are Sunday the 18th 1:45 Roscommon v Kildare and 4pm Armagh v Galway. 4 other games will be live on GAAGO. Louth v Kerry and Derry v Clare not covered.
Another team that was also dominant between 2015 and 2020
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/06/10/kinahan-cartel-collapse-theyre-in-disarray-because-they-dont-know-whats-next-and-whos-next/
Dublin now 9/4 and Kerry now 7/2
They are slowly converging with the pack
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 11:54:11 AM
Dublin now 9/4 and Kerry now 7/2
They are slowly converging with the pack
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
How come Down are better odds than westmeath? When they are not even in the all ireland series?
Quote from: Derryman forever on June 11, 2023, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 11:54:11 AM
Dublin now 9/4 and Kerry now 7/2
They are slowly converging with the pack
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
How come Down are better odds than westmeath? When they are not even in the all ireland series?
the numbers must have been compiled by a Presbyterian
Quote from: Derryman forever on June 11, 2023, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 11:54:11 AM
Dublin now 9/4 and Kerry now 7/2
They are slowly converging with the pack
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
How come Down are better odds than westmeath? When they are not even in the all ireland series?
Tells you all you need to know about how they rate Westmeath's chances.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 12, 2023, 02:44:40 AM
Quote from: Derryman forever on June 11, 2023, 07:45:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 11:54:11 AM
Dublin now 9/4 and Kerry now 7/2
They are slowly converging with the pack
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
How come Down are better odds than westmeath? When they are not even in the all ireland series?
Tells you all you need to know about how they rate Westmeath's chances.
Clare, Sligo, Westmeath and Louth are all priced to lose the PQF. Maybe Westmeath could prove that wrong.
Must be a parallel universe out there?
Clare can't reach the PQF, while the other 3 are very unlikely to.
Would it not have made sense to have the Kerry/Mayo/Louth/Cork group games to be played at 4pm on the Saturday, having 2 groups finalised on Saturday and 2 on Sunday? Now have a situation where Cork/Mayo on gaago at 2pm and Rossies/Kildare at 1.45pm. If the GAA are charging for Gaago subscriptions then you would think that they would try and provide as much value for money as possible for the punters.
is jim McGuiness calling for a 16 team all ireland knockout his article is behind a paywall
maybe a 16 team competition with a 2nd chance for losers in first round be an idea i think the down championship has that format. 15 teams from league rankings and Tailteann cup winners. A 16 team straight knockout open draw be exciting tho but the gaa would never do that as it would mean only 15 championship games.
Quote from: Eire90 on June 13, 2023, 07:24:57 AM
maybe a 16 team competition with a 2nd chance for losers in first round be an idea i think the down championship has that format. 15 teams from league rankings and Tailteann cup winners. A 16 team straight knockout open draw be exciting tho but the gaa would never do that as it would mean only 15 championship games.
We do indeed format for us is
8v8
4 winners Vs 4 Winners - 4 losers Vs 4 Losers (4 winners from the winners group into the 1/4s)
4 losers of the winners group Vs 4 Winners of the loser group
Quarter finals
Semi Finals
Final
Relegation
Teams that lose their first two games go into
Relegation Semi - Final
Relegation final (losers of the two semi finals)
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/13/jim-mcguinness-the-football-championship-should-be-raw-knockout-football-not-this/
The Tailteann Cup is a really strong competition for developing counties, because extra games in the group stages against counties of a similar standard are exactly what those teams need.
But the same number of games are not needed in the Sam Maguire, in my opinion. It would be better served with a round of 16 that does not involve any group format, but rather after the provincials we would move straight to a knockout All-Ireland championship.
Isn't the current system based on a proposal floated by McGuinness himself sone years ago.
you have to have a two or three week gap between every round if it was just a 16 team open knockout
Quote from: Rossfan on June 13, 2023, 10:28:20 AM
Isn't the current system based on a proposal floated by McGuinness himself sone years ago.
the very identical system
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993
Jim McGuinness: How I would reinvigorate football championship
Provincial championships and league should be integrated into two-tiered competition
A revamped football season would still likely witness Kerry celebrating All-Ireland wins in front of Hill 16 but it would give so-called weaker counties added incentive. Photograph: Alan Betson
Tue Jun 9 2015 - 08:30
I read last week about the intention of the Gaelic Players Association to canvass its players on the structures of the All-Ireland championship. Dessie Farrell was at pains to point out that he felt the provincial championship has run its course. And although I could sympathise with Dessie's viewpoint, the idea set alarm bells off in my mind.
It is obvious to me that the All-Ireland championship needs some kind of shake-up or a new dynamic. But simply dissolving the provincial championships, which have provided the super-structure of the All-Ireland summers for over 100 years, is not the answer to my mind.
In fact, I think it would be a disastrous move for Gaelic football. Once a thing is gone, it is gone. The provincial system is far from perfect. But if you simply do away with it, it means that instead of five trophies on offer, you would be left with just one. And I know that in Donegal, winning the Ulster championship was critical in terms of creating a new space to challenge for the All-Ireland.
It got me thinking about ways in which we could improve the structure of the All-Ireland football championship – and, more importantly, to address the widening gap between the powerful counties and those struggling to stay in touch. The recent mismatch between Dublin and Longford provided further substance for those who would argue that the provincial system has run its course. I don't agree with that.
READ MORE
What if we came up with a structure which linked the National Football League, the provincial championships and the All-Ireland? And in doing so created two distinct All-Ireland competitions for the first 16 and second 16 ranked counties at the end of the process?
Top-tier group
Let's agree in theory that by the end of July, say, we are left with two distinct All-Ireland championship competitions, featuring two groups of 16. The top-tier group, consisting of the 16 highest-ranked teams in Ireland, would play eight knockout games with the winners progressing to the All-Ireland quarter-finals and so on until a county lifts the Sam Maguire.
Learn more
The same would occur in the other bracket, which would obviously need a suitable name and a cup: that would be up to the GAA to decide upon. But how do we arrive at identifying which teams are in each bracket?
This is where the National League comes in. The All-Ireland championship grade one and grade two competitions would be based on league ranking and provincial championship performance.
Let's look at the race for Sam Maguire, in the grade one All-Ireland. The top six teams in Division One and the two teams promoted from Division Two would form the first eight ranked teams. The two teams relegated from Division One would rank number ninth and 10th respectively. The team that finishes third in Division Two is ranked number 11. However, the 12th ranking would be held for the winners of the grade two All-Ireland competition the previous year.
That leaves four places reserved for the provincial championship winners – irrespective of where they finished in the league. So in effect, only the top 11 teams in the league would be guaranteed a seeding in the Sam Maguire bracket. If the top-seed teams also won the provincial titles – as will frequently happen – then the top 15 league teams – and the winner of the previous season's second-tier championship – go into the grade one All-Ireland play-offs.
So, to give a scenario: Wicklow earn league promotion from Division Three to Division Two and qualify for the Sam Maguire grade one All-Ireland as the lowest-ranking or 16th-seeded team at the end of the league. They then play the Leinster championship and lose in the first round. But that is okay: their league work is worth something.
Let's say Mayo are the top-seeded team. Then Wicklow will play Mayo – and at home if they win the toss – in a last-16 knockout game with a place in the All-Ireland quarter-finals at stake. Wouldn't that make it worthwhile scrapping to get out of Division Three?
But there is a proviso here. Let's say Kildare have had a miserable league and are demoted to Division Three and therefore are out of the top 16 when the championship starts. They are facing a summer in the second-tier knockout series. In essence, they aren't playing for the Sam Maguire – which is a huge psychological blow for such a strong football county. But they catch fire in the Leinster Championship – and they win it. This guarantees their place as a top seeding in the Sam Maguire bracket. They qualify as provincial winners. Wicklow are squeezed out.
The significance of the provincial championship is retained both as a standalone competition and as a means to compete in the All-Ireland.
I think this structure would achieve two things. It would ensure strong teams are no longer just drifting through the league on automatic and that teams from counties with no winning tradition can strive for something more tangible. It would end the whole idea of a strong league performance somehow equating to fool's gold. The reward for a really all-out league contest is there: it is evident in seeding.
Progress
Preserving the provincial contest means that even if a smaller county is locked into Division Four and can't make any league progress, they still get their chance to play against Cork or Kerry in the Munster championship, for instance. What is the alternative? If you abolish the provincial system and create a two-tier structure, then what incentive is there for a kid in Waterford, say, to aspire to play county football? There are good footballers in Waterford. And if you have a 20-year-old corner back, he deserves a shot at marking James O'Donoghue. His team may not win but he deserves a chance to test himself against the best.
So I feel that rather than abolish the provincial systems, it is time to streamline them. They could be run like tournaments rather than needlessly stretched out over months. The Ulster football championship is terrific. But imagine a weekend when you had a match on a Friday night, a double bill on a Saturday and another match on a Sunday. You could play the semi-finals a fortnight later. The importance of the competition is not diminished and even if a team like Monaghan or Cavan has had a tough league, there is always a chance that they will catch fire in Ulster and go and win the Anglo-Celt.
So: the two All-Ireland play-off brackets are decided upon by league and provincial championship performances.
I think that these should be called the All-Ireland Championship 'Play-offs'. These are in-or-out knockout games, which will bring a cut and thrust feel to the season. I have absolutely no concerns about the play-offs for the Sam Maguire. Sixteen strong teams, with number one playing 16, two playing 15 and so forth – and home or away decided upon a coin toss – would make for a really fascinating competition and would produce unexpected results.
My priority would be in the promotion and elevation of the other competition into something valuable. This can be done. The first thing is that this competition has to be advertised, it has to be put up in lights, and the teams must feel as that their competition is worthwhile. Players want to feel that they are on the big stage. If they are playing in a venue packed with 30,000 people, then the sense of competition will take over. That, to me, is a world away from the reality of a contest like the Tommy Murphy Cup. So games in the second bracket should be guaranteed to be fixed as curtain raisers to the Sam Maguire games. That should follow right through until All-Ireland final day. If we are serious about promoting the game in counties that are struggling, then they should be encouraged to play on the big stage. If that means moving minor games, then so be it. Senior football teams should be given top billing. But there is no reason why there can't be triple-headers featuring minor, grade two and grade one matches from the All-Ireland quarter finals onwards.
The key thing that any player or manager asks himself is this: what are we playing for? Right now, too many teams are playing for nothing tangible. If we abolish the provincial system and create a cold two-tier structure, that becomes even more true. We are effectively punishing struggling teams and instructing them to literally go and play by themselves. They need to have a chance to play against the glamour counties and, if they lose, to still have meaningful games to play in afterwards. This system still gives every team a second chance but to some extent, it removes the safety-net of the qualifying system which always seems to benefit the stronger counties. It means that counties have a clear incentive for progression in the league.
Tradition
And it means that the tradition and legacy – the day out! – of the provincial championships is preserved. It brings an element of intrigue into the season. Most people can probably hazard a reasonably educated guess as to which teams will contest the All-Ireland quarter-finals in August. I think this idea would change that. It requires a little bit of bold thinking but nothing more.
And most of all, I would hope, it brings an element of fairness into the All-Ireland tradition. The big day should not be the preserve of the powerful counties. It is often pointed out – and rightly – that the difference in standard between Division Three and Division Four teams can be marginal. If they have the chance to be involved in a knockout All-Ireland competition with an All-Ireland final in Croke Park on the third Sunday of September up for grabs, then wouldn't every county feel as if they are included in the conversation? Isn't that what everyone dreams about growing up?
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 09:19:39 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/13/jim-mcguinness-the-football-championship-should-be-raw-knockout-football-not-this/
The Tailteann Cup is a really strong competition for developing counties, because extra games in the group stages against counties of a similar standard are exactly what those teams need.
But the same number of games are not needed in the Sam Maguire, in my opinion. It would be better served with a round of 16 that does not involve any group format, but rather after the provincials we would move straight to a knockout All-Ireland championship.
Not sure Seafoid.
We'd all, or mostly all agree, that the National League is the right place for all counties to find out where they're at and where they need to improve. I don't think that's any different for a D1 team or a D4 team. So adding in a variant of the same doesn't do much more than prolong a season, in most cases, unnecessarily so.
I'd be veering towards this system:
Home and away league games, starting in January. No playoffs, no finals.
No provincial championships.
Top 6 in D1 and top 2 in D1 go to the AI.
Top 6 in D3 and top 2 in D4 go the Tailteann.
Seeded round robin (neutral venue) 4 team groups in both comps. Top 2 in each group make their respective semi finals.
Every team gets 14 games at their own level, and the early departures are back with their clubs by end of May.
The finalists play 19 games. All run off over 24-26 weeks, all done for end of July.
——
Save for a team having a lifetime league campaign, then apart from the bottom few teams in D4, the league has an incentive until the final week.
Provincials are 50% a waste of time at present and have no future.
Tying league to championship is the right way. Creating back doors into championship is not.
This makes sense.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 14, 2023, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 09:19:39 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/13/jim-mcguinness-the-football-championship-should-be-raw-knockout-football-not-this/
The Tailteann Cup is a really strong competition for developing counties, because extra games in the group stages against counties of a similar standard are exactly what those teams need.
But the same number of games are not needed in the Sam Maguire, in my opinion. It would be better served with a round of 16 that does not involve any group format, but rather after the provincials we would move straight to a knockout All-Ireland championship.
Not sure Seafoid.
We'd all, or mostly all agree, that the National League is the right place for all counties to find out where they're at and where they need to improve. I don't think that's any different for a D1 team or a D4 team. So adding in a variant of the same doesn't do much more than prolong a season, in most cases, unnecessarily so.
I'd be veering towards this system:
Home and away league games, starting in January. No playoffs, no finals.
No provincial championships.
Top 6 in D1 and top 2 in D1 go to the AI.
Top 6 in D3 and top 2 in D4 go the Tailteann.
Seeded round robin (neutral venue) 4 team groups in both comps. Top 2 in each group make their respective semi finals.
Every team gets 14 games at their own level, and the early departures are back with their clubs by end of May.
The finalists play 19 games. All run off over 24-26 weeks, all done for end of July.
——
Save for a team having a lifetime league campaign, then apart from the bottom few teams in D4, the league has an incentive until the final week.
Provincials are 50% a waste of time at present and have no future.
Tying league to championship is the right way. Creating back doors into championship is not.
This makes sense.
They could run the provincials in Feb and run the League after with the championship endgame based on the League.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 14, 2023, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 09:19:39 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/13/jim-mcguinness-the-football-championship-should-be-raw-knockout-football-not-this/
The Tailteann Cup is a really strong competition for developing counties, because extra games in the group stages against counties of a similar standard are exactly what those teams need.
But the same number of games are not needed in the Sam Maguire, in my opinion. It would be better served with a round of 16 that does not involve any group format, but rather after the provincials we would move straight to a knockout All-Ireland championship.
Not sure Seafoid.
We'd all, or mostly all agree, that the National League is the right place for all counties to find out where they're at and where they need to improve. I don't think that's any different for a D1 team or a D4 team. So adding in a variant of the same doesn't do much more than prolong a season, in most cases, unnecessarily so.
I'd be veering towards this system:
Home and away league games, starting in January. No playoffs, no finals.
No provincial championships.
Top 6 in D1 and top 2 in D1 go to the AI.
Top 6 in D3 and top 2 in D4 go the Tailteann.
Seeded round robin (neutral venue) 4 team groups in both comps. Top 2 in each group make their respective semi finals.
Every team gets 14 games at their own level, and the early departures are back with their clubs by end of May.
The finalists play 19 games. All run off over 24-26 weeks, all done for end of July.
——
Save for a team having a lifetime league campaign, then apart from the bottom few teams in D4, the league has an incentive until the final week.
Provincials are 50% a waste of time at present and have no future.
Tying league to championship is the right way. Creating back doors into championship is not.
This makes sense.
I think the Tailteann works because it gives more matches to the weaker counties (plus Meath).
So I wouldn't change it.
the question is what to do with the Sam Maguire. Separating it from the Provincials means no Sligo etc.
The next question is how many matches do they need .
Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2023, 01:08:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 14, 2023, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 09:19:39 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/13/jim-mcguinness-the-football-championship-should-be-raw-knockout-football-not-this/
The Tailteann Cup is a really strong competition for developing counties, because extra games in the group stages against counties of a similar standard are exactly what those teams need.
But the same number of games are not needed in the Sam Maguire, in my opinion. It would be better served with a round of 16 that does not involve any group format, but rather after the provincials we would move straight to a knockout All-Ireland championship.
Not sure Seafoid.
We'd all, or mostly all agree, that the National League is the right place for all counties to find out where they're at and where they need to improve. I don't think that's any different for a D1 team or a D4 team. So adding in a variant of the same doesn't do much more than prolong a season, in most cases, unnecessarily so.
I'd be veering towards this system:
Home and away league games, starting in January. No playoffs, no finals.
No provincial championships.
Top 6 in D1 and top 2 in D1 go to the AI.
Top 6 in D3 and top 2 in D4 go the Tailteann.
Seeded round robin (neutral venue) 4 team groups in both comps. Top 2 in each group make their respective semi finals.
Every team gets 14 games at their own level, and the early departures are back with their clubs by end of May.
The finalists play 19 games. All run off over 24-26 weeks, all done for end of July.
——
Save for a team having a lifetime league campaign, then apart from the bottom few teams in D4, the league has an incentive until the final week.
Provincials are 50% a waste of time at present and have no future.
Tying league to championship is the right way. Creating back doors into championship is not.
This makes sense.
I think the Tailteann works because it gives more matches to the weaker counties (plus Meath).
So I wouldn't change it.
the question is what to do with the Sam Maguire. Separating it from the Provincials means no Sligo etc.
The next question is how many matches do they need .
Sam Maguire should be top 14 League.
Top 2 in Div 3 and Div 4 playoff for final 2 spots.
Provincial winners usurp the top 14 league if not already in top 14.
No spot for Provincial runners up or Tailteann Cup.
Everyone gets a shot at Sam.
12 games next weekend and every post is about this system or that system, surely there will be plenty of time for that in 6 weeks time when it's clear how the current system has worked out and what needs changing etc.,
Some game posts would be brilliant.
Well said!
I expect the 4 Quarter Finalists will be Mayowestros, Dublin, Galway and Derry.
The PQFs I expect to be Kerry, Tyrone, Ros, Monaghan home games v one of Donegal, Kildare, Armagh, Cork.
Some possibility of Donegal beating Monaghan. Would be some craic IF Louth bt Kerry while Cork bet Mayowestros would mean Kerry out!
Similarly a Westmeath win over Tyrone and Armagh get something off Galway = Tyrone gone.
No more than Sligo taking a point off Dublin won't be happening.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 14, 2023, 07:42:40 PM
Well said!
I expect the 4 Quarter Finalists will be Mayowestros, Dublin, Galway and Derry.
The PQFs I expect to be Kerry, Tyrone, Ros, Monaghan home games v one of Donegal, Kildare, Armagh, Cork.
Some possibility of Donegal beating Monaghan. Would be some craic IF Louth bt Kerry while Cork bet Mayowestros would mean Kerry out!
Similarly a Westmeath win over Tyrone and Armagh get something off Galway = Tyrone gone.
No more than Sligo taking a point off Dublin won't be happening.
Agree with the part in bold. Donegal would have to score a lot as they most likely will concede a good bit. Difficult to see them becoming a defensively orientated team in space of a few weeks.
Is it plausible that Armagh will rest anyone who is borderline injured, as they effectively would have to bust their lungs to beat Galway by more than Tyrone beat Westmeath to get second in the group. They will be out again the next weekend no matter what.
For Armagh it's bust a gut against Galway or potentially face Kerry next time out.
It's a big decision in a town called malice
if cork take a hammering from mayo and louth beat kerry say by 2 points would kerry not get third on better point difference than cork.
This weekend is effectively the start of jeopardy.
Preliminary quarter final draw Monday morning?
Quote from: Eire90 on June 15, 2023, 09:32:19 AM
if cork take a hammering from mayo and louth beat kerry say by 2 points would kerry not get third on better point difference than cork.
If Kerry lose by 2 and Cork lose by 5 and Kerry outscore Cork by 4, (or outscore by 3 but outscore in no. of goals by 1) Kerry get 3rd.
Can teams play each other who met in previous rounds
For example can tyrone now draw Monaghan again?
Preliminary Quarter-Finals
24-25.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four second-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play at home against the four third-placed teams, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.
Home Venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee.
Quarter-Finals
01-02.07.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four first-place teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play against the four Preliminary Quarter-Finals winners, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.
Semi-Finals
15-16.07.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Two Games)
The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw, subject to the avoidance of repeat pairings from the championship, where possible.
Final
30.07.2023 (Sun) | (Replay: 12.08.2023 (Sat))
(One Game)
The winners of the All-Ireland Semi-Finals shall meet in the All-Ireland Final.
Note: All-Ireland Final will have Extra time in the original fixture and will be winner on the day in the event of a replay only.
Venues
Venues for the All-Ireland Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals and Final shall be determined by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
Winner on the Day
The All-Ireland Football Preliminary Quarter-Finals, Quarter-Finals & Semi-Finals will be winner on the day.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 17, 2023, 10:14:25 PM
Preliminary Quarter-Finals
24-25.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four second-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play at home against the four third-placed teams, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.
Home Venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee.
Quarter-Finals
01-02.07.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Four Games)
The four first-place teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play against the four Preliminary Quarter-Finals winners, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.
Semi-Finals
15-16.07.2023 (Sat/Sun)
(Two Games)
The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw, subject to the avoidance of repeat pairings from the championship, where possible.
Final
30.07.2023 (Sun) | (Replay: 12.08.2023 (Sat))
(One Game)
The winners of the All-Ireland Semi-Finals shall meet in the All-Ireland Final.
Note: All-Ireland Final will have Extra time in the original fixture and will be winner on the day in the event of a replay only.
Venues
Venues for the All-Ireland Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals and Final shall be determined by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
Winner on the Day
The All-Ireland Football Preliminary Quarter-Finals, Quarter-Finals & Semi-Finals will be winner on the day.
Interesting.
"The winners of the All-Ireland Semi-Finals shall meet in the All-Ireland Final."
Well blow me down with a feather.
"The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw" - is this accurate?
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 09:24:58 AM
"The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw" - is this accurate?
What's your concern re why it might not be accurate?
The old rules re rotation of provincial champions can't apply as provincial champs may not make the QF, or you could get two provincial champs playing each other in the QF.
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 09:24:58 AM
"The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw" - is this accurate?
I presume it to mean there is no link between groups of provincial winners. Previous competition rules were "the Ulster champions, or the team that beat them, will play Munster winners, or the team that beats them".
No such words written this year, except teams from the same group cannot meet again until the final...at least that's my reading of it.
I've been wrong before though...
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 18, 2023, 09:44:19 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 09:24:58 AM
"The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw" - is this accurate?
I presume it to mean there is no link between groups of provincial winners. Previous competition rules were "the Ulster champions, or the team that beat them, will play Munster winners, or the team that beats them".
No such words written this year, except teams from the same group cannot meet again until the final...at least that's my reading of it.
I've been wrong before though...
I wasn't aware that had been removed - thought semi-finals were still pre-designated, provincially. Thanks.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 18, 2023, 09:44:19 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 09:24:58 AM
"The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw" - is this accurate?
I presume it to mean there is no link between groups of provincial winners. Previous competition rules were "the Ulster champions, or the team that beat them, will play Munster winners, or the team that beats them".
No such words written this year, except teams from the same group cannot meet again until the final...at least that's my reading of it.
I've been wrong before though...
Yes , never thought of this
With the traditional rotational semi finals vpairings , this year would be Ulster v Leinster and Munster v Connacht. But Kerry might play Gslway in a preliminary QF , so that would mean one of the provincial Winners would exit before the QFs. So , the semi final pairings might actually involve an open draw
Read the TO lads and lasses or else the Mods postings.
That Ulster/ Leinster thingy was mooted by HQ (CCCC?) but as some poster here pointed out it was against the Rule in TO so had to be dropped.
Dublin just laying in the long grass, probably start to go up through the gears from here on in.
Group winners and into the All Ireland Quarters - Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Armagh
2nd in their group and have home last 12 tie Cork, Kildare*, Donegal and Galway. (*Nowlan Park)
3rd and away tie next weekend Mayo, Monaghan,Tyrone and Roscommon
Out at the group stage Sligo, Westmeath, Louth and Clare.
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 18, 2023, 06:15:42 PM
Group winners and into the All Ireland Quarters - Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Armagh
2nd in their group and have home last 12 tie Cork, Kildare*, Donegal and Galway. (*Nowlan Park)
3rd and away tie next weekend Mayo, Monaghan,Tyrone and Roscommon
Out at the group stage Sligo, Westmeath, Louth and Clare.
And everybody would have predicted those 4 teams would be knocked out at the start. So in effect we played 24 games to get rid of the 4 teams we thought would go out in the first instance. There was a bit of excitement today but by and large those group games were a long grind to get from 16 teams down to 12.
This is where the real stuff starts now.
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Not 100% but don't think so
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Nah that would make too much sense to do.
Can a team draw another side they already played in the provincial series or in the group stages in a quarter final? If so then there is no point in doing 2 draws tomorrow since we don't yet know which 4 teams will come through.
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
It can't be drawn tomorrow as there is no way to do the draw until they know the four winning preliminary quarterfinalists so as to avoid repeat fixtures in the quarter-finals.
What time is draw?
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Nah that would make too much sense to do.
It actually makes sense to not do it tomorrow
Quote from: yellowcard on June 18, 2023, 06:38:51 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 18, 2023, 06:15:42 PM
Group winners and into the All Ireland Quarters - Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Armagh
2nd in their group and have home last 12 tie Cork, Kildare*, Donegal and Galway. (*Nowlan Park)
3rd and away tie next weekend Mayo, Monaghan,Tyrone and Roscommon
Out at the group stage Sligo, Westmeath, Louth and Clare.
And everybody would have predicted those 4 teams would be knocked out at the start. So in effect we played 24 games to get rid of the 4 teams we thought would go out in the first instance. There was a bit of excitement today but by and large those group games were a long grind to get from 16 teams down to 12.
This is where the real stuff starts now.
Yep , that's pretty much what I thought before all these group games started
Quote from: yellowcard on June 18, 2023, 06:38:51 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 18, 2023, 06:15:42 PM
Group winners and into the All Ireland Quarters - Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Armagh
2nd in their group and have home last 12 tie Cork, Kildare*, Donegal and Galway. (*Nowlan Park)
3rd and away tie next weekend Mayo, Monaghan,Tyrone and Roscommon
Out at the group stage Sligo, Westmeath, Louth and Clare.
And everybody would have predicted those 4 teams would be knocked out at the start. So in effect we played 24 games to get rid of the 4 teams we thought would go out in the first instance. There was a bit of excitement today but by and large those group games were a long grind to get from 16 teams down to 12.
This is where the real stuff starts now.
Most would have predicted those four teams but Westmeath was a kick of the ball away from reaching the last 12 and knocking Tyrone out. Had Sligo won against Kildare (drew and had what looked like a point waved wide) they would have finished 3rd in the group.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2023, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Nah that would make too much sense to do.
It actually makes sense to not do it tomorrow
Why? Gives them a chance to get the grounds and times announced.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 09:18:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2023, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Nah that would make too much sense to do.
Nah. Sure they can't make the draw as they don't know who is in it and who can't play who etc
It actually makes sense to not do it tomorrow
Why? Gives them a chance to get the grounds and times announced.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2023, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 09:18:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2023, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Nah that would make too much sense to do.
Nah. Sure they can't make the draw as they don't know who is in it and who can't play who etc
It actually makes sense to not do it tomorrow
Why? Gives them a chance to get the grounds and times announced.
Gives them an advantage of extra prep as they will know they will play A or B instead of A - H
Whatever happens the rest of the season we'll never forget the jubilant scenes when Armagh won the all Ireland in June.
They might have to have the next game in croke park AND open the aviva to put the game on a big screen to accommodate their support.
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 19, 2023, 12:19:04 AM
Whatever happens the rest of the season we'll never forget the jubilant scenes when Armagh won the all Ireland in June.
They might have to have the next game in croke park AND open the aviva to put the game on a big screen to accommodate their support.
These celebrations will only be surpassed by the Jubilant scenes when Mayo won the AI a month earlier in the month of May in Killarney! ;D
We really need to stop this celebrating winning a game.
Fckn Presbyterianism at its worst !!
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 19, 2023, 12:19:04 AM
Whatever happens the rest of the season we'll never forget the jubilant scenes when Armagh won the all Ireland in June.
They might have to have the next game in croke park AND open the aviva to put the game on a big screen to accommodate their support.
You can stop now. The village election results are in . You are the new village idiot.
Group winners was three first seeds and one second seed
Group runners up was three 4th seeds and one 1st seed.
3rd place teams was strangely enough all of the 3rd seeds.
Teams that finished bottom was three 2nd seeds and one 4th seed.
Quote from: WT4E on June 18, 2023, 10:26:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2023, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 09:18:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 18, 2023, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 18, 2023, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 18, 2023, 06:39:05 PM
Is the QF draw made tomorrow ie will Derry Kerry Dublin and Armagh find out which match their next opponents will come from?
Nah that would make too much sense to do.
Nah. Sure they can't make the draw as they don't know who is in it and who can't play who etc
It actually makes sense to not do it tomorrow
Why? Gives them a chance to get the grounds and times announced.
Gives them an advantage of extra prep as they will know they will play A or B instead of A - H
But they can't draw the quarterfinals until they know the teams so they can avoid repeat pairings etc or else you could be looking at a draw of Armagh v winners of Tyrone/monaghan. Unless it's Tyrone then it's Armagh v winners of Galway/Mayo. Unless it's Galway then.....
The big question is whether the increased number of games beforehand makes for better quarter finals.
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2023, 07:46:36 AM
The big question is whether the increased number of games beforehand makes for better quarter finals.
The last round was brilliant but RTE should have had a live table been updated. Real question is, is the shadow boxing first two rounds worth it.
Kildare versus Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
Edit to place home teams first.
Practically all of the plum draws for the GAA came out.
Eugh.
You should win that.
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 19, 2023, 08:45:39 AM
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
Kildare
Roscommon
Tyrone
Who knows!
Monaghan
Roscommon
Tyrone
Galway
Do we know the quarter match-ups or is that another draw to be made?
Quote from: GJL on June 19, 2023, 09:23:24 AM
Do we know the quarter match-ups or is that another draw to be made?
Another draw required.
The advantage of finishing top of the group is really being seen now, that one point difference yesterday has transformed the trajectory of both Galway and Armagh's seasons.
Galway to beat Mayo without Comer and Kelly is a big ask. Shane Walsh is way off form as well, no matter what squad depth you try and build, if you're top class difference makers are injured or out of form then it's tough to get results.
Donegal don't lose too many games in Donegal
Galway might have enough but huge impact on injuries going forward may scupper them
Monaghan could do it, though Kildare are looking at this as the best draw
Cork should have too much on the Rossies if they play like they did yesterday, though expect the Rossies to go full on defence
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 19, 2023, 09:31:57 AM
The advantage of finishing top of the group is really being seen now, that one point difference yesterday has transformed the trajectory of both Galway and Armagh's seasons.
Galway to beat Mayo without Comer and Kelly is a big ask. Shane Walsh is way off form as well, no matter what squad depth you try and build, if you're top class difference makers are injured or out of form then it's tough to get results.
I thought Sean O Maolchiarain was fit again. Could he not fit in the full back line ? Comer is more difficult to replace.
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2023, 09:37:22 AM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 19, 2023, 09:31:57 AM
The advantage of finishing top of the group is really being seen now, that one point difference yesterday has transformed the trajectory of both Galway and Armagh's seasons.
Galway to beat Mayo without Comer and Kelly is a big ask. Shane Walsh is way off form as well, no matter what squad depth you try and build, if you're top class difference makers are injured or out of form then it's tough to get results.
I thought Sean O Maolchiarain was fit again. Could he not fit in the full back line ? Comer is more difficult to replace.
He's not going to be next nor near the level required for Senior IC after such a long layoff, same with the like of Molloy getting back for a few minutes with the club, throwing these lads in wouldn't be fair on them or a plausible option. If Mulkerrin is starting the next day we're in serious, serious bother.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2023, 09:34:57 AM
Donegal don't lose too many games in Donegal
Galway might have enough but huge impact on injuries going forward may scupper them
Monaghan could do it, though Kildare are looking at this as the best draw
Cork should have too much on the Rossies if they play like they did yesterday, though expect the Rossies to go full on defence
Before this year Donegal didn't in Ballybofey but Derry and Mayo comfortably beat them there this year and Tyrone should be edging that game
Monaghan v Kildare a good draw for both. Can the lilywhites build on yesterday when more will be expected of them, Monaghan looking to bounce back after unexpected defeat.
Cork tails up and looking very fit as they out scored Mayo 1-6 to no score in the final quarter, Roscommon heads down and looked leggy yesterday I'd side with the home team there.
Galway v Mayo the tie of the round, if Comer and Sean Kelly are out I think Mayo will likely win by a point or two.
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 19, 2023, 09:31:57 AM
The advantage of finishing top of the group is really being seen now, that one point difference yesterday has transformed the trajectory of both Galway and Armagh's seasons.
Galway to beat Mayo without Comer and Kelly is a big ask. Shane Walsh is way off form as well, no matter what squad depth you try and build, if you're top class difference makers are injured or out of form then it's tough to get results.
Galway now have to beat Mayo, and if they do then they could meet Kerry or Dublin next, they cannot meet Armagh so that probability is increased. Whereas if Galway and Tyrone win, then Armagh will play the winners of Kildare/Monaghan or Cork/Roscommon, none of whom are front runners to win Sam and who Armagh might beat.
Injuries might stop Galway, but if they got going again than the likes of Kerry would not fancy meeting them whereas presumably Kerry cannot be drawn against Mayo in the QF.
Monaghan to beat Kildare
Cork to beat Roscommon
Tyrone to beat Donegal
Galway to beat Mayo
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 19, 2023, 09:29:17 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 19, 2023, 09:23:24 AM
Do we know the quarter match-ups or is that another draw to be made?
Another draw required.
Is the semi-final draw still based on the provincial draw or a new draw again?
I think this year would be Ulster v Leinster and Munster v Connacht but then Armagh have taken Galway's spot as Connacht winners.
If it is still based on the provincials then you imagine it will be Dublin v Derry and Kerry v the winners of Armaghs's 1/4 Final.
Quote from: clarshack on June 19, 2023, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 19, 2023, 09:29:17 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 19, 2023, 09:23:24 AM
Do we know the quarter match-ups or is that another draw to be made?
Another draw required.
Is the semi-final draw still based on the provincial draw or a new draw again?
I think this year would be Ulster v Leinster and Munster v Connacht but then Armagh have taken Galway's spot as Connacht winners.
If it is still based on the provincials then you imagine it will be Dublin v Derry and Kerry v the winners of Armaghs's 1/4 Final.
New draw - the provincial match-up structure is gone.
Current Bookies odds for the All-Ireland
Kerry 2/1
Dublin 2/1
Derry 9/1
Armagh 9/1
Mayo 10/1
Galway 10/1
Tyrone 16/1
Monaghan 40/1
Roscommon 40/1
Cork 50/1
Donegal 66/1
Kildare 80/1
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
If I think Kildare are very strongly placed to beat Monaghan. Home game and have certainly improved over the year. Monaghan seem to be struggling to hit the heights they did against Derry earlier in the group stages.
Cork v Roscommon - earlier in the year you'd have had Roscommon nailed on for this one. Now I'm not so sure. Rossies are a little bit like Armagh and put a lot of emphasis on fitness and physicality, Cork have caught up on this aspect. Really a 50-50 game I think.
Donegal vs Tyrone - there always had to be 1 all-ulster clash. Again, earlier in the year you'd have said a hammering for Donegal. But they have been really good in their last two games against Derry and Monaghan. They kept mcguigan out of the game in the Derry match for large parts. If they can do that with Canavan (not sure if McCurry will be back) then I think Tyrone won't get the scores. Whereas Donegal seem to be getting scores from more areas and Gallen is in a good run of form. Not convinced on Tyrone at all, so I'm going with Donegal as they have that bit of momentum and a point to prove.
Galway v Mayo - both tipped by many for AI honours this year and both have been stuttering recently. Galway def struggling without Comer and it seems the squad depth may not be as good as we thought. Mayo have been disappointing over the last few games. Result will depend on who Galway have available. Full strength, Galway. Missing Comer, I'm going for Mayo.
So, that's Kildare, Donegal, Cork and Mayo.
QF draw:
Dublin
Derry
Armagh
Kerry
vs
Kildare
Donegal
Cork
Mayo
Realistically, after this last weekend Dublin and Kerry look like they are well ahead of the chasing pack.
Of the rest, I think Derry and Mayo/Galway are the only teams in with a half chance of competing with them.
Quote from: GJL on June 19, 2023, 09:23:24 AM
Do we know the quarter match-ups or is that another draw to be made?
Regarding the real Quarter Finals ;)
Going by the information on gaa.ie:
There will be no repeat pairings of the provincial finals - which can't happen now, with Derry and Armagh already in the quarter-finals, and 3 of the other provincial finalists are out - Sligo, Clare and Louth.
They will also try to avoid any clashes with Round One groups so:
Derry can't face Monaghan or Donegal
Dublin can't face Roscommon or Kildare
Kerry can't face Mayo or Cork
Armagh can't face Galway or Tyrone.
The teams in bold can be drawn against any other county not on the same line as them...
ie Derry could be drawn against Roscommon, Kildare, Mayo, Cork, Galway or Tyrone (results depending),
And if Donegal and Monaghan win, then that would reduce our options to Roscommon, Cork, Galway or Mayo
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 19, 2023, 10:22:33 AM
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
If I think Kildare are very strongly placed to beat Monaghan. Home game and have certainly improved over the year. Monaghan seem to be struggling to hit the heights they did against Derry earlier in the group stages.
Cork v Roscommon - earlier in the year you'd have had Roscommon nailed on for this one. Now I'm not so sure. Rossies are a little bit like Armagh and put a lot of emphasis on fitness and physicality, Cork have caught up on this aspect. Really a 50-50 game I think.
Donegal vs Tyrone - there always had to be 1 all-ulster clash. Again, earlier in the year you'd have said a hammering for Donegal. But they have been really good in their last two games against Derry and Monaghan. They kept mcguigan out of the game in the Derry match for large parts. If they can do that with Canavan (not sure if McCurry will be back) then I think Tyrone won't get the scores. Whereas Donegal seem to be getting scores from more areas and Gallen is in a good run of form. Not convinced on Tyrone at all, so I'm going with Donegal as they have that bit of momentum and a point to prove.
Galway v Mayo - both tipped by many for AI honours this year and both have been stuttering recently. Galway def struggling without Comer and it seems the squad depth may not be as good as we thought. Mayo have been disappointing over the last few games. Result will depend on who Galway have available. Full strength, Galway. Missing Comer, I'm going for Mayo.
So, that's Kildare, Donegal, Cork and Mayo.
QF draw:
Dublin
Derry
Armagh
Kerry
vs
Kildare
Donegal
Cork
Mayo
Realistically, after this last weekend Dublin and Kerry look like they are well ahead of the chasing pack.
Of the rest, I think Derry and Mayo/Galway are the only teams in with a half chance of competing with them.
I'm not sure that Dublin and Kerry are that far ahead. They both beat hapless opposition by cricket scores but we've learned nothing new about either.
Also if you claim that the only sides that have even a half chance of competing with them contain Derry, Mayo and Galway well what about an Armagh side who have already beaten Galway and drew with Derry. I'd put Armagh in that category now that we are straight into the quarter final. I still don't think we'll win it but we now have a great chance of getting to a semi final.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 19, 2023, 10:36:44 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 19, 2023, 10:22:33 AM
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
If I think Kildare are very strongly placed to beat Monaghan. Home game and have certainly improved over the year. Monaghan seem to be struggling to hit the heights they did against Derry earlier in the group stages.
Cork v Roscommon - earlier in the year you'd have had Roscommon nailed on for this one. Now I'm not so sure. Rossies are a little bit like Armagh and put a lot of emphasis on fitness and physicality, Cork have caught up on this aspect. Really a 50-50 game I think.
Donegal vs Tyrone - there always had to be 1 all-ulster clash. Again, earlier in the year you'd have said a hammering for Donegal. But they have been really good in their last two games against Derry and Monaghan. They kept mcguigan out of the game in the Derry match for large parts. If they can do that with Canavan (not sure if McCurry will be back) then I think Tyrone won't get the scores. Whereas Donegal seem to be getting scores from more areas and Gallen is in a good run of form. Not convinced on Tyrone at all, so I'm going with Donegal as they have that bit of momentum and a point to prove.
Galway v Mayo - both tipped by many for AI honours this year and both have been stuttering recently. Galway def struggling without Comer and it seems the squad depth may not be as good as we thought. Mayo have been disappointing over the last few games. Result will depend on who Galway have available. Full strength, Galway. Missing Comer, I'm going for Mayo.
So, that's Kildare, Donegal, Cork and Mayo.
QF draw:
Dublin
Derry
Armagh
Kerry
vs
Kildare
Donegal
Cork
Mayo
Realistically, after this last weekend Dublin and Kerry look like they are well ahead of the chasing pack.
Of the rest, I think Derry and Mayo/Galway are the only teams in with a half chance of competing with them.
I'm not sure that Dublin and Kerry are that far ahead. They both beat hapless opposition by cricket scores but we've learned nothing new about either.
Also if you claim that the only sides that have even a half chance of competing with them contain Derry, Mayo and Galway well what about an Armagh side who have already beaten Galway and drew with Derry. I'd put Armagh in that category now that we are straight into the quarter final. I still don't think we'll win it but we now have a great chance of getting to a semi final.
You could be right on Dublin and Kerry, but Louth put it up to some of the top teams this year and got beat out the gate. Sligo have been improving too.
For me it feels like Dublin and Kerry have timed peaking until now. I hope I'm wrong.
The thing with Armagh is that they just beat a Galway side missing a lot of first teamers. I still think they are a fair bit behind a full strength Galway, but in saying that I guess this could be as strong as Galway get with the injuries. Of course Armagh in with a chance of semi's, but I still think the only teams that have the tools to stifle Kerry/Dublin are the 3 I mentioned.
Kerry and Dublin are expected to kick on from now and are favourites with the bookies but it's not clear they can. Dublin are a long way off their peak and Kerry continue to rely on the same faces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRaS-Jf5XU&pp=ygUlZm9vdGJhbGwgY29taW5nIGhvbWUgcm9zY29tbW9uIGJhcmJlcg%3D%3D
Only 4 games to win, football is coming home ;) ;D
His optimism is a joy to behold. ;D
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 19, 2023, 10:22:33 AM
If I think Kildare are very strongly placed to beat Monaghan. Home game and have certainly improved over the year. Monaghan seem to be struggling to hit the heights they did against Derry earlier in the group stages.
Kildare won't be at home though, they've nominated Tullamore to be the venue.
Hard to be overly optimistic for Monaghan given how we looked at the weekend, but it's the best draw we could have gotten so that will give us a boost. Also in true Monaghan tradition, we can't string 2 good performances together so we're probably due one here. Although even if we were to win, that would leave us shit out of luck in the quarters.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 19, 2023, 10:20:39 AM
Kildare v Monaghan
Cork v Roscommon
Donegal vs Tyrone
Galway v Mayo
FFS ;D
They couldn't give us the Rossies for a bit of excitement and novelty?
Kerry rely on the same faces?? From the game yesterday it would appear that all 15 starters and those that came on are contributing nicely. Geaney didn't play and he'll be chomping at the bit to get back in the next day as well. Half forwards of Spillane and Moynahan worked exceptionally hard tracking back and carrying the ball. Kerry, like Dublin, are timing their runs to hit form at the business end of the championship. For Mayo or Galway to win the All-Ireland from the position they are in now is asking a lot. It would require four big performances one after the other to win an All-Ireland which is a very tall task. Galway could potentially have to defeat Mayo, Kerry, Derry and Dublin in four consecutive games to win Sam. If they do achieve this feat it will be one of the most hard earned All-Ireland titles ever won.
Bought the Irish Times this morning for a change of scenery, noticed they still have the semi final stages down in their fixture planner for Connacht v Munster & Ulster v Leinster. I'm not sure this is the case tho? If it is presumably Armagh are now the 'Connacht' rep as well??
Quote from: Schkite on June 19, 2023, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 19, 2023, 10:22:33 AM
If I think Kildare are very strongly placed to beat Monaghan. Home game and have certainly improved over the year. Monaghan seem to be struggling to hit the heights they did against Derry earlier in the group stages.
Kildare won't be at home though, they've nominated Tullamore to be the venue.
Hard to be overly optimistic for Monaghan given how we looked at the weekend, but it's the best draw we could have gotten so that will give us a boost. Also in true Monaghan tradition, we can't string 2 good performances together so we're probably due one here. Although even if we were to win, that would leave us shit out of luck in the quarters.
The QF draw will be a complicated affair, if there is a wish to avoid previous pairings. For instance, if Galway and Tyrone win then Armagh would not play them, so Monaghan are much more likely to get Armagh which would probably seem within reach for them.
Quote from: Rudi on June 19, 2023, 10:51:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRaS-Jf5XU&pp=ygUlZm9vdGJhbGwgY29taW5nIGhvbWUgcm9zY29tbW9uIGJhcmJlcg%3D%3D
Only 4 games to win, football is coming home ;) ;D
His optimism is a joy to behold. ;D
Brilliant! That's the characters that make being at a game special!
Can't help thinking Dublin were the real winners in today's draw.
One of the two teams capable of beating them will be gone this time next week, and the other one will likely be punctured from a do or die battle.
Kerry
Dublin
Derry
Armagh
Kildare
Roscommon
Tyrone
Mayo
How does it work with QF pairings? Is it an open draw? Or any permutations of who each team played in group stages?
For the umpteenth time....
No repeat pairings of Group games or Provincial Finals (where possible).
Semi Final draw is no repeats of previous Championship games (where possible...might not be possible at that stage)
Quote from: Rudi on June 19, 2023, 10:51:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRaS-Jf5XU&pp=ygUlZm9vdGJhbGwgY29taW5nIGhvbWUgcm9zY29tbW9uIGJhcmJlcg%3D%3D
Only 4 games to win, football is coming home ;) ;D
His optimism is a joy to behold. ;D
That YouTuber seems to be some sort of Irish Unionist as he often changes his username to things like BritishIslesUnited and he always uploads videos whenever republicans misbehave. Unless he does this to try to troll nationalists which is common among southerners.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 19, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
For the umpteenth time....
No repeat pairings of Group games or Provincial Finals (where possible).
Semi Final draw is no repeats of previous Championship games (where possible...might not be possible at that stage)
I assume that's for my benefit, was the Irish Times fixture list of Connacht v Munster and Ulster v Munster at the AI semi stage wrong then?
Quote from: thewobbler on June 19, 2023, 12:03:34 PM
Can't help thinking Dublin were the real winners in today's draw.
One of the two teams capable of beating them will be gone this time next week, and the other one will likely be punctured from a do or die battle.
Defo happy to see Galway and Mayo draw each other, but i wouldn't want either of them nor Tyrone in the quarters.
I think the winners of Galway/Mayo will use that momentum to win their QF, no matter who they get.
I fancy 4 away wins in the prelims, but not with much confidence. Should be a great round of games.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2023, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 19, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
For the umpteenth time....
No repeat pairings of Group games or Provincial Finals (where possible).
Semi Final draw is no repeats of previous Championship games (where possible...might not be possible at that stage)
I assume that's for my benefit, was the Irish Times fixture list of Connacht v Munster and Ulster v Munster at the AI semi stage wrong then?
As usual, the GAA make hard work of explaining what they are at. This webpage describes the process, but only says that there will be semi-finals, not how they are grouped
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/2023-all-ireland-sfc-format-explained/
How hard is it to put a clear an complete description of the football championship?
There is going to be war over GAAGO over the next 2 weekends. GAAGO gets half of the matches.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2023, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2023, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 19, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
For the umpteenth time....
No repeat pairings of Group games or Provincial Finals (where possible).
Semi Final draw is no repeats of previous Championship games (where possible...might not be possible at that stage)
I assume that's for my benefit, was the Irish Times fixture list of Connacht v Munster and Ulster v Munster at the AI semi stage wrong then?
As usual, the GAA make hard work of explaining what they are at. This webpage describes the process, but only says that there will be semi-finals, not how they are grouped
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/2023-all-ireland-sfc-format-explained/
How hard is it to put a clear an complete description of the football championship?
As clear as mud. It's like them putting the draw this morning on the radio where nobody could see it. And then to find out that all of the plum draws they would wish for actually materialised!
Watch HQ put Kerry + Dublin games on the Sat, and make Armagh + Derry wan's travel on the Sunday!
Quote from: 5times5times on June 19, 2023, 03:32:58 PM
Watch HQ put Kerry + Dublin games on the Sat, and make Armagh + Derry wan's travel on the Sunday!
We were Sat last year and Armagh were the Sunday
Sunday's better, less traffic
Saturday:
Cork v Roscommon, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, 2pm, GAAGO
Kildare v Monaghan, O'Connor Park, 4.45pm, GAAGO
Donegal v Tyrone, MacCumhaill Park, 7pm, GAAGO
Sunday:
Galway v Mayo, Salthill, 3pm, RTE One
The odds have changed.
Dublin and Kerry are still 2/1
but 4 teams are 9/1- Derry, Armagh , Galway and Mayo
An early start Saturday!
If it was a Group game I'd probably give it a miss but as it's likely Ros' last game of 2023 I'll make the effort.
Quote from: Rudi on June 19, 2023, 10:51:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IRaS-Jf5XU&pp=ygUlZm9vdGJhbGwgY29taW5nIGhvbWUgcm9zY29tbW9uIGJhcmJlcg%3D%3D
Only 4 games to win, football is coming home ;) ;D
His optimism is a joy to behold. ;D
it sure is, God bless him.
I hope the rossies win next weekend just for him.
It's double header for Monaghan at Tullamore with the minors on first v Kerry. It's a good location for the games and I'd say both Kildare and Monaghan are at ease with their pairing. Both teams are riddled with inconsistency, difficult to guess who's gonna turn up but I just see the Kildare giants easily slicing through the porous Monaghan defence, just as they did in the league. Yet Kildare got relegated then, some hope exists I suppose.
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2023, 05:21:35 PM
It's double header for Monaghan at Tullamore with the minors on first v Kerry. It's a good location for the games and I'd say both Kildare and Monaghan are at ease with their pairing. Both teams are riddled with inconsistency, difficult to guess who's gonna turn up but I just see the Kildare giants easily slicing through the porous Monaghan defence, just as they did in the league. Yet Kildare got relegated then, some hope exists I suppose.
Kildare played Monaghan in the keague?
Monaghan are Div 1, Kildare are Div 2.
Quote from: Derryman forever on June 19, 2023, 05:39:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2023, 05:21:35 PM
It's double header for Monaghan at Tullamore with the minors on first v Kerry. It's a good location for the games and I'd say both Kildare and Monaghan are at ease with their pairing. Both teams are riddled with inconsistency, difficult to guess who's gonna turn up but I just see the Kildare giants easily slicing through the porous Monaghan defence, just as they did in the league. Yet Kildare got relegated then, some hope exists I suppose.
Kildare played Monaghan in the keague?
Monaghan are Div 1, Kildare are Div 2.
Where did he say that they played them this year, he said "then".
Seafoid, who's offering Armagh at 9/1 odds? Thanks
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 19, 2023, 06:17:16 PM
Seafoid, who's offering Armagh at 9/1 odds? Thanks
Paddy Power, Bet 365, William Hill
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
Quote from: Derryman forever on June 19, 2023, 05:39:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2023, 05:21:35 PM
It's double header for Monaghan at Tullamore with the minors on first v Kerry. It's a good location for the games and I'd say both Kildare and Monaghan are at ease with their pairing. Both teams are riddled with inconsistency, difficult to guess who's gonna turn up but I just see the Kildare giants easily slicing through the porous Monaghan defence, just as they did in the league. Yet Kildare got relegated then, some hope exists I suppose.
Kildare played Monaghan in the keague?
Monaghan are Div 1, Kildare are Div 2.
He's talking about last year when Kildare won in Newbridge against Monaghan 0-24 to 1-12.
That seems so long ago. We mauled Monaghan that day. Serious football but that's what we can do IF we are let and get little resistance...it'll be very different on Saturday.
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 19, 2023, 06:17:16 PM
Seafoid, who's offering Armagh at 9/1 odds? Thanks
Fairly shite odds. Armagh have to play 3 games and that implies 3 games pretty much 50:50. The QFs might be 50:50 if we play the likes of Monaghan/Kildare/Cork/Roscommon, but it gets harder after that.
Perhaps we'll beat a Connacht side after extra time, then beat Dublin and Kerry by a point, 2002 style.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2023, 06:58:15 PM
Quote from: Oraisteach on June 19, 2023, 06:17:16 PM
Seafoid, who's offering Armagh at 9/1 odds? Thanks
Fairly shite odds. Armagh have to play 3 games and that implies 3 games pretty much 50:50. The QFs might be 50:50 if we play the likes of Monaghan/Kildare/Cork/Roscommon, but it gets harder after that.
Perhaps we'll beat a Connacht side after extra time, then beat Dublin and Kerry by a point, 2002 style.
They were 25/1 a week ago
u think they would have done two saturday two sunday
Was speculation that the All Ireland Quarter finals would be played in provincial venues this year but not so as its confirmed this afternoon that all 4 will be played in Croke Park on July 1st and 2nd.
Surprise surprise € ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on June 20, 2023, 03:49:44 PM
Surprise surprise € ;D
Do you not think QF'inalists deserve/want them to be in Croker? It means 2x double-headers. win-win for everyone
Not if you draw feckin Dublin.
And Dublin crowd will only pile in for their game.
At least if in the now unlikely event we bate Cork we can't draw Dublin.
Why's it unlikely?
Ah we just didn't look that hot Sunday so maybe on the slide while Cork seem on the rise.
Hopefully the possible end of the road might galvanise them for one mighty effort.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 20, 2023, 04:29:41 PM
Why's it unlikely?
Standard pessimism after a loss, I felt the same going into Galway game but ye just never know
group winners should get home advantage in quarters gives a a more incentive to win group as well as getting the bye to quarter finals and means the teams thar finish 3fd have to go on the road twice which should be punishment for coming 3rd
Quote from: Eire90 on June 21, 2023, 10:37:20 AM
group winners should get home advantage in quarters gives a a more incentive to win group as well as getting the bye to quarter finals and means the teams thar finish 3fd have to go on the road twice which should be punishment for coming 3rd
In theory yes, but the gaa know they should get decent crowds for these quarter finals id imagine 40k plus. In saying that you should get good value if you went for a double header. Armagh/Dublin will probably be on different days as they would generally draw the biggest support.
The draw for the Quarter-Finals of the Sam Maguire Cup will take place next Monday morning on RTÉ Radio 1 as part of Morning Ireland after the news at 8.30am
Bowl One
Kerry
Dublin
Armagh
Derry
Bowl Two
Cork/Roscommon
Kildare/Monaghan
Donegal/Tyrone
Galway/Mayo
From GAA.ie Fixtures that can’t happen:
Kerry v Cork, Kerry v Mayo
Dublin v Kildare, Dublin v Roscommon
Armagh v Galway, Armagh v Tyrone
Derry v Donegal, Derry v Monaghan
Match arrangements will be finalised by the CCCC later that day and the games will take place at Croke Park over the weekend of July 1st/2nd.
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 23, 2023, 06:01:39 PM
The draw for the Quarter-Finals of the Sam Maguire Cup will take place next Monday morning on RTÉ Radio 1 as part of Morning Ireland after the news at 8.30am
Bowl One
Kerry
Dublin
Armagh
Derry
Bowl Two
Cork/Roscommon
Kildare/Monaghan
Donegal/Tyrone
Galway/Mayo
From GAA.ie Fixtures that can't happen:
Kerry v Cork, Kerry v Mayo
Dublin v Kildare, Dublin v Roscommon
Armagh v Galway, Armagh v Tyrone
Derry v Donegal, Derry v Monaghan
Match arrangements will be finalised by the CCCC later that day and the games will take place at Croke Park over the weekend of July 1st/2nd.
It's not a draw per se but selected pairings
is there any other possibility other than
Kerry v Mon
Dub v Gal/Mayo
Armagh v Cork
Derry v Tyrone
Quote from: Main Street on June 24, 2023, 11:42:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 23, 2023, 06:01:39 PM
The draw for the Quarter-Finals of the Sam Maguire Cup will take place next Monday morning on RTÉ Radio 1 as part of Morning Ireland after the news at 8.30am
Bowl One
Kerry
Dublin
Armagh
Derry
Bowl Two
Cork/Roscommon
Kildare/Monaghan
Donegal/Tyrone
Galway/Mayo
From GAA.ie Fixtures that can't happen:
Kerry v Cork, Kerry v Mayo
Dublin v Kildare, Dublin v Roscommon
Armagh v Galway, Armagh v Tyrone
Derry v Donegal, Derry v Monaghan
Match arrangements will be finalised by the CCCC later that day and the games will take place at Croke Park over the weekend of July 1st/2nd.
It's not a draw per se but selected pairings
is there any other possibility other than
Kerry v Mon
Dub v Gal/Mayo
Armagh v Cork
Derry v Tyrone
When you know which of Galway or Mayo is there then there are possibilities.
Kerry v Galway
Dublin v Cork
Armagh v Monaghan
Derry v Tyrone
Quote from: Rossfan on June 20, 2023, 04:52:36 PM
Ah we just didn't look that hot Sunday so maybe on the slide while Cork seem on the rise.
Sadly I was right.
Depressing oul day.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 12:04:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 24, 2023, 11:42:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 23, 2023, 06:01:39 PM
The draw for the Quarter-Finals of the Sam Maguire Cup will take place next Monday morning on RTÉ Radio 1 as part of Morning Ireland after the news at 8.30am
Bowl One
Kerry
Dublin
Armagh
Derry
Bowl Two
Cork/Roscommon
Kildare/Monaghan
Donegal/Tyrone
Galway/Mayo
From GAA.ie Fixtures that can't happen:
Kerry v Cork, Kerry v Mayo
Dublin v Kildare, Dublin v Roscommon
Armagh v Galway, Armagh v Tyrone
Derry v Donegal, Derry v Monaghan
Match arrangements will be finalised by the CCCC later that day and the games will take place at Croke Park over the weekend of July 1st/2nd.
It's not a draw per se but selected pairings
is there any other possibility other than
Kerry v Mon
Dub v Gal/Mayo
Armagh v Cork
Derry v Tyrone
When you know which of Galway or Mayo is there then there are possibilities.
Kerry v Galway
Dublin v Cork
Armagh v Monaghan
Derry v Tyrone
So can Derry v Tyrone be avoided?
Yes. 33% chance of it happening i believe. If it happens trone win. Derry man speaking..
Rematches can happen if they are the last teams in the bowl, Armagh could play Tyrone if all the other teams are out before them.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2023, 01:19:18 AM
Rematches can happen if they are the last teams in the bowl, Armagh could play Tyrone if all the other teams are out before them.
I would have thought that if they're the last two left then the balls drawn immediately before them will be redrawn in such a way as to not leave tyrone/armagh? See that in various draws
It's only rematches are avoided were possible, if they were the last line of the draw, the draw can't be redone
Why don't they just nominate one of the two teams as first out of the hat, and draw their opponent from the 6 teams they can face, and go from there?
Could be talking out my arse but I think if Galway win today I think Armagh will be drawn first as we can only meet Cork/Mon. Similarly if Mayo win today Kerry will be drawn first as they'll only have 2 options and the others still have 3 options. The second draw on a similar principle or random draw from the initially qualified Quarter finalists - if all options are equal. Haven't read this anywhere was just thinking it would be logical.
The fact that they don't properly explain what happens here leads to confusion. They can't just pull Armagh or Kerry out first, it's the first one out of the 4 balls
They WILL have a system to avoid repeat pairings, it wont be a pure random draw, it cant be.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2023, 03:23:55 PM
They WILL have a system to avoid repeat pairings, it wont be a pure random draw, it cant be.
Could happen to be a dirty random draw with warm balls.
sure they will draw the pot one team and then amend whatever teams are in the other pot? would that not avoid repeat pairs?
Nope it be one each at a time, looking for Derry to be drawn early against Cork lol
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2023, 04:23:02 PM
Nope it be one each at a time, looking for Derry to be drawn early against Cork lol
guaranteed to get tyrone
Armagh vs Mayo for sure
Most of the table toppers can draw 3/4 with the except of Kerry who only draw Monaghan or Tyrone.
This is the problem with so many games before the proper knockouts start. Trying to avoid repeat pairings is a nightmare. We'll see how it goes tomorrow anyway, maybe they'll have some system in mind rather than the usual film canisters in a bowl.
So Tyrone have a 50% chance of drawing Kerry and 25% each of Derry and Dublin.
Armagh have a 25% chance of drawing Monaghan and 37.5% each of Cork and Mayo.
Rest can be easily derived from that.
Group 1 (Ky, Mo, Ck, Lh) ended up being the best group with 3 1/4 finalists and Group 2 (Du, Ro, Ke, So) the weakest with only 1 1/4 finalist.
Armagh the only provincial runner-up to make it through.
Tyrone Kerry
Monaghan Armagh
Dublin Mayo
Cork Derry
Best draw for neutrals
Quote from: full moon on June 25, 2023, 05:08:41 PM
Tyrone Kerry
Monaghan Armagh
Dublin Mayo
Cork Derry
Best draw for neutrals
Can you please switch
Mayo to V Derry at least if we lose, I will not begrudge Derry a win.
Two Derry men that sit behind me in Croke Park have roared for Mayo for the last six or seven years.
Who would yis Derry folk prefer to get?
I presume Cork or Tyrone or would you rather beat us later on?
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 25, 2023, 05:27:53 PM
Who would yis Derry folk prefer to get?
I presume Cork or Tyrone or would you rather beat us later on?
In all honesty I'd prefer Cork. Cork, Tyrone or Mayo in that order.
Cork, Then likely Tyrone, Mayo,! Cork never should beat Roscommon. Mayo the strongest left of the 4 on that side of the draw where Derry/ Armagh the weakest on the other side.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 25, 2023, 05:27:53 PM
Who would yis Derry folk prefer to get?
I presume Cork or Tyrone or would you rather beat us later on?
Cork would be best draw for Derry I reckon.
Armagh vs Mayo
Dublin vs Cork
Monaghan vs Kerry
Derry vs Tyrone
Dublin can draw Monaghan, Tyrone, Mayo, Cork
Kerry can draw Monaghan, Tyrone
Derry can draw Tyrone, Mayo, Cork
Armagh can draw Monaghan, Mayo, Cork
Monaghan can draw Kerry, Dublin, Armagh
Tyrone can draw Kerry, Dublin, Derry
Cork can draw Dublin, Derry, Armagh
Mayo can draw Dublin, Derry, Armagh
Is the AI semis and open draw? Thought I read somewhere if Derry and Dublin win 1/4s they meet in semi.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 25, 2023, 07:26:29 PM
Is the AI semis and open draw? Thought I read somewhere if Derry and Dublin win 1/4s they meet in semi.
Apparently AI semis are an open draw. The pre-determined provincial rule has been removed.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 25, 2023, 07:26:29 PM
Is the AI semis and open draw? Thought I read somewhere if Derry and Dublin win 1/4s they meet in semi.
I posted this below last Monday as that's the way the Irish Times had it but I've yet to hear a definitive answer either way.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2023, 11:11:45 AM
Bought the Irish Times this morning for a change of scenery, noticed they still have the semi final stages down in their fixture planner for Connacht v Munster & Ulster v Leinster. I'm not sure this is the case tho? If it is presumably Armagh are now the 'Connacht' rep as well??
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2023, 07:59:03 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 25, 2023, 07:26:29 PM
Is the AI semis and open draw? Thought I read somewhere if Derry and Dublin win 1/4s they meet in semi.
I posted this below last Monday as that's the way the Irish Times had it but I've yet to hear a definitive answer either way.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2023, 11:11:45 AM
Bought the Irish Times this morning for a change of scenery, noticed they still have the semi final stages down in their fixture planner for Connacht v Munster & Ulster v Leinster. I'm not sure this is the case tho? If it is presumably Armagh are now the 'Connacht' rep as well??
I asked this question on a thread (maybe this one) and Mod 5 stated that the pre-designated provincial pairings (as above) has gone as provincial winners may not reach the quarter finals - as happened to Gaillimh. So open draw for semis apparently.
I think the chances of each county drawing each other are as follows given the need to avoid repeat pairings?
Kerry's potential opponents.
Tyrone 50%
Monaghan 50%
Tyrone's potential opponents
Kerry 50%
Dublin 25%
Derry 25%
Monaghan's Potential opponents
Kerry 50%
Armagh 25 %
Dublin 25%
Armagh's Potential opponents
Monaghan 25%
Mayo 37.5%
Cork 37.5%
Corks potential opponents
Dublin 25%
Armagh 37.5%
Derry 37.5%
Mayo's potential opponents
Armagh 37.5%
Derry 37.5%
Dublin 25%
Derrys potential opponents
Tyrone 25%
Mayo 37.5%
Cork 37.5%
Dublins potential opponents
Tyrone 25%
Kerry 25%
Mayo 25%
Cork 25%
Quote from: blanketattack on June 25, 2023, 05:02:41 PM
So Tyrone have a 50% chance of drawing Kerry and 25% each of Derry and Dublin.
Armagh have a 25% chance of drawing Monaghan and 37.5% each of Cork and Mayo.
Rest can be easily derived from that.
Group 1 (Ky, Mo, Ck, Lh) ended up being the best group with 3 1/4 finalists and Group 2 (Du, Ro, Ke, So) the weakest with only 1 1/4 finalist.
Armagh the only provincial runner-up to make it through.
Sorry didn't see you had already done it
All these % is taking me bck to school, roll on that draw on the mor, am getting memory haze lol.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2023, 09:28:34 PM
All these % is taking me bck to school, roll on that draw on the mor, am getting memory haze lol.
Couldn't think of a better way to express it. Sorry
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
That's all of Round Robin Group 1 playing Ulster teams!
Today completed the Connaught-home-team-loses triangle.
Mayo lost at home to Roscommon
Roscommon lost at home to Galway
Galway lost at home to Mayo
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Has anyone asked AI to do the draw?
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Kerry have a 50% chance of playing Tyrone and 50% chance of playing Monaghan and 0% each of Cork and Mayo.
That seems like a certainty to face Ulster to me!
Cork and Mayo both have a 75% chance of playing either Derry or Armagh and a 25% chance of playing Dublin.
Sometimes thread titles aren't very accurate, but this one has hit the nail on the head!
Quote from: blanketattack on June 25, 2023, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Kerry have a 50% chance of playing Tyrone and 50% chance of playing Monaghan and 0% each of Cork and Mayo.
That seems like a certainty to face Ulster to me!
Cork and Mayo both have a 75% chance of playing either Derry or Armagh and a 25% chance of playing Dublin.
Sometimes thread titles aren't very accurate, but this one has hit the nail on the head!
There is no pairing that definitely can't happen. An dtuigeann tú?
Quote from: clarshack on June 25, 2023, 10:33:59 PM
Has anyone asked AI to do the draw?
Paul the Octopus is doing it
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 25, 2023, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Kerry have a 50% chance of playing Tyrone and 50% chance of playing Monaghan and 0% each of Cork and Mayo.
That seems like a certainty to face Ulster to me!
Cork and Mayo both have a 75% chance of playing either Derry or Armagh and a 25% chance of playing Dublin.
Sometimes thread titles aren't very accurate, but this one has hit the nail on the head!
There is no pairing that definitely can't happen. An dtuigeann tú?
I thought the line about where possible only meant that if there was no alternative to having a team face an opponent they had already played then they would avoid such a pairing. That scenario being highly unlikely at this stage but before today was theoretically possible at semi final stage
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 25, 2023, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Kerry have a 50% chance of playing Tyrone and 50% chance of playing Monaghan and 0% each of Cork and Mayo.
That seems like a certainty to face Ulster to me!
Cork and Mayo both have a 75% chance of playing either Derry or Armagh and a 25% chance of playing Dublin.
Sometimes thread titles aren't very accurate, but this one has hit the nail on the head!
There is no pairing that definitely can't happen. An dtuigeann tú?
There is, Galway cant play any of Armagh, Kerry, Dublin or Derry in the quarter final. Fact.
Quote from: blanketattack on June 25, 2023, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Kerry have a 50% chance of playing Tyrone and 50% chance of playing Monaghan and 0% each of Cork and Mayo.
That seems like a certainty to face Ulster to me!
Why couldn't Kerry get Dublin?
Hard to believe it will be all over on July 30th!
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 26, 2023, 12:12:43 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 25, 2023, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on June 25, 2023, 10:16:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2023, 09:41:44 PM
Kerry guaranteed Ulster opposition and Cork and Mayo likely to face Ulster opposition.
No - it still depends on the order they come out tomorrow. The 'can't play' clause is not a certainty. Otherwise the draw could go on for a long time!!!
Kerry have a 50% chance of playing Tyrone and 50% chance of playing Monaghan and 0% each of Cork and Mayo.
That seems like a certainty to face Ulster to me!
Why couldn't Kerry get Dublin?
Kerry and Dublin are in the same pot, both reached the QFs directly by topping their group.
Thanks for the clarification.
No one cares about this RTE scandal. Just get on with the feckin draw.
Kerry v Tyrone
Armagh v Monaghan
Derry v Cork
Dublin v Mayo
But everyone on Twitter said that Derry and Tyrone was a certainty!!
Some good fixtures there. Derry probably got the best draw.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2023, 02:39:11 PM
Could be talking out my arse but I think if Galway win today I think Armagh will be drawn first as we can only meet Cork/Mon. Similarly if Mayo win today Kerry will be drawn first as they'll only have 2 options and the others still have 3 options. The second draw on a similar principle or random draw from the initially qualified Quarter finalists - if all options are equal. Haven't read this anywhere was just thinking it would be logical.
Ahem wildweasel
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Eugh.
Would rather had 1 more game under our belt before meeting Kerry however if you want to win the big prize you have to beat the big teams. Will be a massive game for this team. Worried about Tyrone's bench, thought McShane should have been given 20 minutes against Donegal in order to get some game time.
Handy draw for Derry anyway, that's them into the semis
Watching cork v Roscommon was a real step below the rest of the games over the weekend
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
I don't see any scenario where there's not a draw.
E.g. 2 sets of repeat pairings
Kerry, Mayo, Armagh, Derry
Still need a draw to see if Kerry meet Armagh or Derry.
I wonder if there's an order for what they try to avoid:
E.g. Round 1 > Provincial Final > Earlier Provincial game.
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
With Dublin v Mayo certain to be played Sunday due to Mayo being to only team that played yesterday, that means Kerry v Tyrone is certain to be on Saturday.
After that, hard to know, maybe Derry v Cork will then be put on Sunday to help with the traffic system for what will be close to a sellout.
Or sometimes they put Cork and Kerry on the same day.
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 26, 2023, 09:00:13 AM
Would rather had 1 more game under our belt before meeting Kerry however if you want to win the big prize you have to beat the big teams. Will be a massive game for this team. Worried about Tyrone's bench, thought McShane should have been given 20 minutes against Donegal in order to get some game time.
Not certain McShane will play a minute in whatever's left of the year. There was an article a few weeks ago about inability of him and McCurry to coexist and McCurry is going nowhere.
Very sad and unfortunate fall from grace for a fella who was so important for them and having suffered such a terrible injury.
Controversial but Cork to beat Derry.
Possibly Mayo to beat Dublin.
Can't see Tyrone beating Kerry.
Armagh and Monaghan a funny one. Armagh to hammer Monaghan or Monaghan to win a tight game.
I assume they'll take traffic/ transport into account when fixing games for teams from the north. Armagh will take biggest support so would they (Guards/PSNI) prefer Armagh/Derry play on same day rather than Armagh/Tyrone?
Paddy Power have the fixtures already listed for Saturday and Sunday which is different to what I expected.
Also thought Kerry-Tyrone would be 50:50 odds wise.
(https://pichost.net/i/2023/06/26/Polish_20230626_09232831800bff545e20da5a6.jpg)
I'd imagine the fixtures will look like below:
Cork v derry 1st game sat
Kerry v tyrone 2nd game sat
Armagh v Monaghan 1st game Sun
Dublin v Mayo 2nd game sun
Makes the most sense in terms of traffic etc and Sunday could see a sell out
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 26, 2023, 09:25:11 AM
I assume they'll take traffic/ transport into account when fixing games for teams from the north. Armagh will take biggest support so would they (Guards/PSNI) prefer Armagh/Derry play on same day rather than Armagh/Tyrone?
Derry v Cork with Dubs / Mayo you'd imagine for crowd maximisation. As Dublin v Mayo is the marquee game does that mean 4pm Sunday? Armagh v Monaghan the opener for Kerry v Tyrone Saturday evening- IMO.
Quote from: full moon on June 25, 2023, 05:08:41 PM
Tyrone Kerry
Monaghan Armagh
Dublin Mayo
Cork Derry
Best draw for neutrals
Full Moon called it right.
Derry, Armagh and Monaghan must be happy with that draw and have a great chance of making the semis.
Was thinking last night when watching TSG when Cavanagh and Tomas O'Se were discussing Canavan bros v the Clifford bros that we'll probably see that next weekend.
No doubt Kerry will be all out for revenge after the 2021 show. Wonder would they let us put the match back a few weeks?
Quote from: gallsman on June 26, 2023, 09:20:24 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on June 26, 2023, 09:00:13 AM
Would rather had 1 more game under our belt before meeting Kerry however if you want to win the big prize you have to beat the big teams. Will be a massive game for this team. Worried about Tyrone's bench, thought McShane should have been given 20 minutes against Donegal in order to get some game time.
Not certain McShane will play a minute in whatever's left of the year. There was an article a few weeks ago about inability of him and McCurry to coexist and McCurry is going nowhere.
Very sad and unfortunate fall from grace for a fella who was so important for them and having suffered such a terrible injury.
Seen that article, not sure if I believe it or not. Surely you sort that type of issue out in the training ground. A large physical player like McShane who can win his own ball and take scores should on paper work ideal along with a smaller quicker forward. Both should be feeding off each other.
If someone had said to me at rhe start of the year you have to beat Monaghan for a place in the AISF I'd have taken that. I imagine Monaghan fans would feel the same re Armagh also
Quote from: blanketattack on June 26, 2023, 09:27:46 AM
Paddy Power have the fixtures already listed for Saturday and Sunday which is different to what I expected.
Also thought Kerry-Tyrone would be 50:50 odds wise.
I've seen online bookies do that before with fixtures. They could well turn out right but at this stage they are just taking a stab in the dark.
I don't think I'd be touching Kerry at 4/9 for this one. Seems too short.
So if Derry beat Cork, and as one of Armagh/Monaghan go through, is that pairing possible in a sf since we've played Armagh in an Ulster Final and Monaghan in the groups?
If not, the one Semi permutation will possibly be Derry v (Kerry/Tyrone or Dublin/Mayo).
Is that right? That's a tough route for Derry if so, but then all routes are tough at this stage.
Monaghan have a great chance to get into an all Ireland semi final. After that....
At what time today can we expect the days/times for games to be confirmed?
Great chance for Armagh to get into a semi final now. Good draw for Derry as well. What way does the semi final draw work or is it known yet?
A Derry, Kerry and Dublin treble for me, would bet them on a through to next round as one of them will probably serve up a draw
Armagh Monaghan too tight to call
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 26, 2023, 09:24:18 AM
Controversial but Cork to beat Derry.
Possibly Mayo to beat Dublin.
Can't see Tyrone beating Kerry.
Armagh and Monaghan a funny one. Armagh to hammer Monaghan or Monaghan to win a tight game.
Cork could be wrecked after pulling wins out of the bag late on the last two weekends
Possible as Dublin aren't a patch on their Jim Gavin teams and Roscommon should have beaten them a few weeks ago
Why can't you see it? Have beaten Kerry in their last three matches.
Armagh aren't set up to hammer any team this year. Hopefully not penalties to decide it.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2023, 09:30:25 AM
Quote from: full moon on June 25, 2023, 05:08:41 PM
Tyrone Kerry
Monaghan Armagh
Dublin Mayo
Cork Derry
Best draw for neutrals
Full Moon called it right.
Derry, Armagh and Monaghan must be happy with that draw and have a great chance of making the semis.
Was thinking last night when watching TSG when Cavanagh and Tomas O'Se were discussing Canavan bros v the Clifford bros that we'll probably see that next weekend.
No doubt Kerry will be all out for revenge after the 2021 show. Wonder would they let us put the match back a few weeks?
No problem at all. We'll play it in Garvaghey aswell shur hi.. ;D
Surely can have 3 Nordy convoys travelling down same day so was thinking Derry v Cork (fans will be like Persians v 300..literally) and Kerry v Tyrone on the Saturday. But who knows with the GAA.
If we lose we lose. Just no extra time and penalties please!
Quote from: Armamike on June 26, 2023, 09:56:40 AM
If we lose we lose. Just no extra time and penalties please!
You know that extra time and penalties are a certainty in that game...lol
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 26, 2023, 09:38:19 AM
So if Derry beat Cork, and as one of Armagh/Monaghan go through, is that pairing possible in a sf since we've played Armagh in an Ulster Final and Monaghan in the groups?
If not, the one Semi permutation will possibly be Derry v (Kerry/Tyrone or Dublin/Mayo).
Is that right? That's a tough route for Derry if so, but then all routes are tough at this stage.
No repeat pairings in the semi final either!
Quote from: Estimator on June 26, 2023, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 26, 2023, 09:38:19 AM
So if Derry beat Cork, and as one of Armagh/Monaghan go through, is that pairing possible in a sf since we've played Armagh in an Ulster Final and Monaghan in the groups?
If not, the one Semi permutation will possibly be Derry v (Kerry/Tyrone or Dublin/Mayo).
Is that right? That's a tough route for Derry if so, but then all routes are tough at this stage.
No repeat pairings in the semi final either!
Semi finals are an open draw surely?
If Kerry-Tyrone is a double header with Armagh-Monaghan, I presume the 3 Ulster teams will be shouting for Tyrone?
Derry have had a handy oul path to the semis.
Quote from: full moon on June 26, 2023, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: Estimator on June 26, 2023, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 26, 2023, 09:38:19 AM
So if Derry beat Cork, and as one of Armagh/Monaghan go through, is that pairing possible in a sf since we've played Armagh in an Ulster Final and Monaghan in the groups?
If not, the one Semi permutation will possibly be Derry v (Kerry/Tyrone or Dublin/Mayo).
Is that right? That's a tough route for Derry if so, but then all routes are tough at this stage.
No repeat pairings in the semi final either!
Semi finals are an open draw surely?
Semi-final draw is even more restrictive than the 1/4 finals.
Semi-final doesn't allow a repeat of any previous Championship meetings, while 1/4s avoided provincial finals and round 1.
Therefore:
Kerry: can't play Mayo/Cork
Tyrone: can't play Arm/Mon
Armagh: can't play Tyr/Derry
Monaghan: can't play Tyr/Derry
Derry: can't play Arm/Mon
Cork: can't play Mayo/Kerry
Mayo: can't play Cork/Kerry
It looks nailed on for Armagh v Monaghan followed by Kerry v Tyrone on the Saturday.
With Derry v Cork followed by Dublin v Mayo on the Sunday.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on June 26, 2023, 10:02:46 AM
Quote from: Armamike on June 26, 2023, 09:56:40 AM
If we lose we lose. Just no extra time and penalties please!
You know that extra time and penalties are a certainty in that game...lol
Got all the hallmarks of a slogfest unfortunately. Hopefully not.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 10:29:29 AM
It looks nailed on for Armagh v Monaghan followed by Kerry v Tyrone on the Saturday.
With Derry v Cork followed by Dublin v Mayo on the Sunday.
Bit of a queue at the toll!
Quote from: blanketattack on June 26, 2023, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: full moon on June 26, 2023, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: Estimator on June 26, 2023, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 26, 2023, 09:38:19 AM
So if Derry beat Cork, and as one of Armagh/Monaghan go through, is that pairing possible in a sf since we've played Armagh in an Ulster Final and Monaghan in the groups?
If not, the one Semi permutation will possibly be Derry v (Kerry/Tyrone or Dublin/Mayo).
Is that right? That's a tough route for Derry if so, but then all routes are tough at this stage.
No repeat pairings in the semi final either!
Semi finals are an open draw surely?
Semi-final draw is even more restrictive than the 1/4 finals.
Semi-final doesn't allow a repeat of any previous Championship meetings, while 1/4s avoided provincial finals and round 1.
Therefore:
Kerry: can't play Mayo/Cork
Tyrone: can't play Arm/Mon
Armagh: can't play Tyr/Derry
Monaghan: can't play Tyr/Derry
Derry: can't play Arm/Mon
Cork: can't play Mayo/Kerry
Mayo: can't play Cork/Kerry
If the 3 teams from Group 1 make it to the semis the GAA will have to override the rules.
If Derry and Tyrone win their 1/4 finals there'll be no semi-final draw as the only way to avoid previous fixtures in the semis will be:
Derry v Tyrone
Mayo/Dublin v Armagh/Monaghan
Quote from: seafoid on June 26, 2023, 10:45:15 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 26, 2023, 10:21:43 AM
Quote from: full moon on June 26, 2023, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: Estimator on June 26, 2023, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 26, 2023, 09:38:19 AM
So if Derry beat Cork, and as one of Armagh/Monaghan go through, is that pairing possible in a sf since we've played Armagh in an Ulster Final and Monaghan in the groups?
If not, the one Semi permutation will possibly be Derry v (Kerry/Tyrone or Dublin/Mayo).
Is that right? That's a tough route for Derry if so, but then all routes are tough at this stage.
No repeat pairings in the semi final either!
Semi finals are an open draw surely?
Semi-final draw is even more restrictive than the 1/4 finals.
Semi-final doesn't allow a repeat of any previous Championship meetings, while 1/4s avoided provincial finals and round 1.
Therefore:
Kerry: can't play Mayo/Cork
Tyrone: can't play Arm/Mon
Armagh: can't play Tyr/Derry
Monaghan: can't play Tyr/Derry
Derry: can't play Arm/Mon
Cork: can't play Mayo/Kerry
Mayo: can't play Cork/Kerry
If the 3 teams from Group 1 make it to the semis the GAA will have to override the rules.
Rule says "where possible"
It looks nailed on for Armagh v Monaghan followed by Kerry v Tyrone on the Saturday.
With Derry v Cork followed by Dublin v Mayo on the Sunday.
Id be shocked if that's not the way of it. Ulster fans will be on the road early!
Would there be a chance of getting an exception for the Armagh game to be a standalone fixture in HQ?
I'm seriously worried that PSNI / Garda will have to setup escorts to ensure the game starts on time. The scale of traffic we're talking about here is gargantuan
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 26, 2023, 11:08:35 AM
Would there be a chance of getting an exception for the Armagh game to be a standalone fixture in HQ?
I'm seriously worried that PSNI / Garda will have to setup escorts to ensure the game starts on time. The scale of traffic we're talking about here is gargantuan
I've never seen anything like the tail back coming down the road for the Armagh Galway match on the Motorway (Was coming back from the Derry Clare match the next day). Bus upon bus load from Armagh stuck at the Toll for miles.
Mighty support and mighty supporters.
Quote from: Armamike on June 26, 2023, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 10:29:29 AM
It looks nailed on for Armagh v Monaghan followed by Kerry v Tyrone on the Saturday.
With Derry v Cork followed by Dublin v Mayo on the Sunday.
Bit of a queue at the toll!
I originally thought Cork v Derry followed by Kerry v Tyrone but the other 4 teams would carry too much support to be on the same day.
Derry4Sam sur!
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 26, 2023, 11:08:35 AM
Would there be a chance of getting an exception for the Armagh game to be a standalone fixture in HQ?
I'm seriously worried that PSNI / Garda will have to setup escorts to ensure the game starts on time. The scale of traffic we're talking about here is gargantuan
Tyrone and Armagh played in an All Ireland semi-final and final in Croke park and people got there. If the games are on Saturday then they will have late starts and earlier travel is advised.
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 26, 2023, 11:08:35 AM
Would there be a chance of getting an exception for the Armagh game to be a standalone fixture in HQ?
I'm seriously worried that PSNI / Garda will have to setup escorts to ensure the game starts on time. The scale of traffic we're talking about here is gargantuan
armagh had a bigger support in the early noughties
so its not an issue
my prefernece is a sunday with the dublin game
croke would be packed to the rafters
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 26, 2023, 11:08:35 AM
Would there be a chance of getting an exception for the Armagh game to be a standalone fixture in HQ?
I'm seriously worried that PSNI / Garda will have to setup escorts to ensure the game starts on time. The scale of traffic we're talking about here is gargantuan
:D Stop it, you're too funny.
Paddy power have times on.
Saturday
Derry v Cork 4pm
Armagh v Monaghan 6.15pm
Sunday
Kerry v Tyrone 1.45pm
Dublin v Mayo 4pm
Don't know if they know something or if it's a mistake.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
Paddy power have times on.
Saturday
Derry v Cork 4pm
Armagh v Monaghan 6.15pm
Sunday
Kerry v Tyrone 1.45pm
Dublin v Mayo 4pm
Don't know if they know something or if it's a mistake.
That could be feasible especially since they have the times of the matches down. Tyrone and Kerry are not that well supported and looks like they've loaded the 2 biggest games up for the Sunday.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
Paddy power have times on.
Saturday
Derry v Cork 4pm
Armagh v Monaghan 6.15pm
Sunday
Kerry v Tyrone 1.45pm
Dublin v Mayo 4pm
Don't know if they know something or if it's a mistake.
Not a mistake, bookies put the fixtures up straight away with no accuracy of dates or times just to get punters in with the publicity bounce of the draw, then change them accordingly.
Bet365 have Cork and Kerry on the Saturday with the games at 3pm and 5pm.
Boylesports have all 4 games on at 5pm on the Saturday. I guess they think it's a Royal Rumble type event with all 8 teams.
Saturday:
3.45 Kerry v Tyrone
6.00 Armagh v Monaghan
Sunday:
1.45 Derry v Cork
4.00 Dublin v Mayo
https://twitter.com/CahairOKane1/status/1673286153653587969?t=wOL0wuNwS5_x_QYEUKSfFQ&s=19
Quote from: Schkite on June 26, 2023, 12:07:19 PM
Saturday:
3.45 Kerry v Tyrone
6.00 Armagh v Monaghan
Sunday:
1.45 Derry v Cork
4.00 Dublin v Mayo
https://twitter.com/CahairOKane1/status/1673286153653587969?t=wOL0wuNwS5_x_QYEUKSfFQ&s=19
The only surprise is the order of the games with Kerry v Tyrone being the early game on the Saturday. Probably to allow Kerry supporters making the journey to get back home earlier.
The GAA can confirm the following fixture arrangements for next weekend.
All-Ireland SFC Quarter-Finals
Saturday July 1
Kerry v Tyrone, Croke Park, 3.45pm, GAAGO
Referee: Brendan Cawley (Kildare)
Armagh v Monaghan, Croke Park, 6pm, GAAGO
Referee: Conor Lane (Cork)
Sunday July 2
Derry v Cork, Croke Park, 1.45pm, RTE
Referee: Joe McQuillan (Cavan)
Dublin v Mayo, Croke Park, 4pm, RTE
Referee: David Gough (Meath)
(All fixtures E.T & Winner on the Day)
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 12:13:41 PM
Quote from: Schkite on June 26, 2023, 12:07:19 PM
Saturday:
3.45 Kerry v Tyrone
6.00 Armagh v Monaghan
Sunday:
1.45 Derry v Cork
4.00 Dublin v Mayo
https://twitter.com/CahairOKane1/status/1673286153653587969?t=wOL0wuNwS5_x_QYEUKSfFQ&s=19
The only surprise is the order of the games with Kerry v Tyrone being the early game on the Saturday. Probably to allow Kerry supporters making the journey to get back home earlier.
So I wonder is the likelihood that the SF pairings will come from the QFs played on the same day.
Kerry/Tyrone v Armagh/Monaghan
Derry/Cork v Dublin/Mayo
Derry v Tyrone AIF anyone? :P
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 26, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
Makes sense for Kerry Tyrone first . So the minibus carrying all the Kerry fans will get home at a reasonable hour
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 26, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
I'd say Kerry requested the earlier time due to the travel involved. You could have parts of Kerry with 4/5 hours drive home. If the game went to extra time they'd have a very late finish. Armagh/Monaghan lot closer so suit the later throw in time.
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 26, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
Makes perfect sense. The stay at home neutral TV supporter might tune into Kerry v Tyrone quicker alright but Armagh v Monaghan will still be better attended than Kerry v Tyrone.
do casual bandwagon types stay or get early to watch the teams that they support not involved in
The biggest game of the draw not even on tv
Mental
Is Tally still with Kerry?
Crazy that Kerry Tyrone is not televised instead of Derry Cork. All Ireland champions from past two years and we'll be stuck with more GAA Go streams faltering?
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
Paddy power have times on.
Saturday
Derry v Cork 4pm
Armagh v Monaghan 6.15pm
Sunday
Kerry v Tyrone 1.45pm
Dublin v Mayo 4pm
Don't know if they know something or if it's a mistake.
That could be feasible especially since they have the times of the matches down. Tyrone and Kerry are not that well supported and looks like they've loaded the 2 biggest games up for the Sunday.
Tyrone's league and provincial support hasn't been what it used to be the last few years, I'd give you that. But in Croke Park we travel well in my opinion. We expect to get there every year these days you see. Ye wouldn't support them Kerry boys on Saturday would you?
I'd say a lot of Armagh and Monaghan fans will want to see Kerry Tyrone game. So you'll get a lot of fans rushing to get there for 3.45 causing huge traffic problems
Then again, If you put Armagh Monaghan first, there wouldn't be as much interest from Tyrone Kerry fans, so you'll get a more staggered entry. Although the traffic would be mental (especially northbound traffic) after with more fans leaving at same time
Frig , i dunno......
Maybe they should play Kerry v Tyrone in Limerick?
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 26, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
The Armagh and Monaghan support will probably be in the for the 2nd half of the first game and they will all be cheering for Kerry so it makes it even more difficult for Tyrone.
would have preferred to have been on before the Dubs.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 26, 2023, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 26, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
I'd say Kerry requested the earlier time due to the travel involved. You could have parts of Kerry with 4/5 hours drive home. If the game went to extra time they'd have a very late finish. Armagh/Monaghan lot closer so suit the later throw in time.
last train to Tralee is at 7. They wouldn't make that with the later throw in
Quote from: ClubScene13 on June 26, 2023, 12:42:25 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
Paddy power have times on.
Saturday
Derry v Cork 4pm
Armagh v Monaghan 6.15pm
Sunday
Kerry v Tyrone 1.45pm
Dublin v Mayo 4pm
Don't know if they know something or if it's a mistake.
That could be feasible especially since they have the times of the matches down. Tyrone and Kerry are not that well supported and looks like they've loaded the 2 biggest games up for the Sunday.
Tyrone's league and provincial support hasn't been what it used to be the last few years, I'd give you that. But in Croke Park we travel well in my opinion. We expect to get there every year these days you see. Ye wouldn't support them Kerry boys on Saturday would you?
They didn't get to Croke Park last year so I suppose the novelty factor might get the Tyrone fair weather fans back out this weekend alright. But Kerry won't have a big support and as a result I still think Armagh v Monaghan will draw a bigger support overall. Armagh will take the biggest crowd over the weekend apart from the Dubs.
Quote from: Eire90 on June 26, 2023, 12:32:51 PM
do casual bandwagon types stay or get early to watch the teams that they support not involved in
Normally not that bothered about the other game but will always cheer on anyone against Tyrone
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on June 26, 2023, 12:53:34 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on June 26, 2023, 12:32:51 PM
do casual bandwagon types stay or get early to watch the teams that they support not involved in
Normally not that bothered about the other game but will always cheer on anyone against Tyrone
Think I speak for all Tyrone people when I say we love to hear bitter Armagh fans. The most successful year you will have had in the last 22 years is to win a championship game in croke Park
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 26, 2023, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 26, 2023, 12:28:04 PM
How to fk is Tyrone v Kerry the first game?
Makes no sense. Surely the Mon & Armagh support would stay to watch such a game
Can't see the same interest in the second one - most neutrals in Ireland would have no massive interest in Mon v Armagh on tv - but most of Ireland would want to watch a tyrone v Kerry 6pm game
I'd say Kerry requested the earlier time due to the travel involved. You could have parts of Kerry with 4/5 hours drive home. If the game went to extra time they'd have a very late finish. Armagh/Monaghan lot closer so suit the later throw in time.
Exactly. Monaghan and Armagh people can travel home while it is still bright.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on June 26, 2023, 12:53:34 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on June 26, 2023, 12:32:51 PM
do casual bandwagon types stay or get early to watch the teams that they support not involved in
Normally not that bothered about the other game but will always cheer on anyone against Tyrone
You afraid of us beating you 3 times in the one year?
Hopefully Armagh players behave themselves this year at Croke Park. No eye gouging ok?
No complaining about the ref's appointed? Great stuff ;D
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 26, 2023, 01:08:24 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on June 26, 2023, 12:53:34 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on June 26, 2023, 12:32:51 PM
do casual bandwagon types stay or get early to watch the teams that they support not involved in
Normally not that bothered about the other game but will always cheer on anyone against Tyrone
You afraid of us beating you 3 times in the one year?
Do you want to even things up for last year?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2023, 01:38:26 PM
No complaining about the ref's appointed? Great stuff ;D
Wait to you're named some day !!
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 26, 2023, 01:40:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2023, 01:38:26 PM
No complaining about the ref's appointed? Great stuff ;D
Wait to you're named some day !!
Water off a ducks back, as I assume the other ref's at that level are thinking ;D
Website crashed.
Got 4 choices of tickets.... 335 + 336..
**** off gaa/ticketmaster
Tickets sold out or the usual nonsense from Ticketmaster?
Trying to lump families into the worst seats in the house - who would have thought
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
Exactly, seems like a stupid statement.
Season Tickets on line from about 10 mins ago. Cusack 305 again, good seats. Croke Park will have set aside all Season Ticket seats so i would imagine that these will not all be taken so will probably be up for resale again by Wednesday Evening as you have until 1pm that day to choose your tickets or loose them. So for any of you who did not get tickets today keep a watch around Wednesday or so. Roll on Saturday Armagh Abu!
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
Would expect more than 40k on the Saturday
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
Once Kerry are 5 points ahead the crowd from the first game will leave.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
55-60k Saturday, Armagh Tyrone Monaghan have great supporters, Kerry might bring 2k. 1k which will live in Dublin.
70k-75k Sunday. Mayo will bring 30k Dublin 35k, Derry 10k Cork 500
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
55-60k Saturday, Armagh Tyrone Monaghan have great supporters, Kerry might bring 2k. 1k which will live in Dublin.
70k-75k Sunday. Mayo will bring 30k Dublin 35k, Derry 10k Cork 500
Cork have a big bandwagon support out at the moment was over 14k in Pairc ui Chaoimh on Saturday afternoon
What price the family tickets?
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2023, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
Once Kerry are 5 points ahead the crowd from the first game will leave.
Or the bandwagoner fans will stay in the pubs until near the start of the second match as Kerry rack up a big half time lead.
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
55-60k Saturday, Armagh Tyrone Monaghan have great supporters, Kerry might bring 2k. 1k which will live in Dublin.
70k-75k Sunday. Mayo will bring 30k Dublin 35k, Derry 10k Cork 500
Monaghan only has 65,000 people, there are only so many that can go. Tyrone support hasn't been that high in recent times, Armagh may get a few. Neighbouring counties like Derry and Down or Antrim or Louth have had their own games recently and will not travel and this is a Saturday. I'd say that 50k would be doing very well.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 26, 2023, 03:39:16 PM
What price the family tickets?
done know but just bought Hogan upper for 40 each
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
Exactly, seems like a stupid statement.
If Tyrone, Armagh and Derry win then there's no need for a draw. It will be Tyrone v Derry and Armagh v winner of other match. Not confident on that but it's a way to avoid a draw.
Quote from: straightred on June 26, 2023, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 26, 2023, 03:39:16 PM
What price the family tickets?
done know but just bought Hogan upper for 40 each
Juvenile tickets are €5 but TM stick you in the worst possible seats. Everyone panic buys at the time but there will no doubt be better seats available later in week. Will I f**k be paying €40 for a child.
Will the Derry wans be supporting Tyrone on Sat then as they'd rather play us than Dublin or Kerry in the semi?
45 euro for adult + juvenile, section 305 lower cusack ;)
Ticketmaster webshite pure scutter
Is there anything that bes done well in this country
Quote from: David McKeown on June 26, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
Exactly, seems like a stupid statement.
If Tyrone, Armagh and Derry win then there's no need for a draw. It will be Tyrone v Derry and Armagh v winner of other match. Not confident on that but it's a way to avoid a draw.
Just Tyrone and Derry alone winning stops the need for a draw.
Neither can face Armagh or Monaghan so have to face each other.
So Dublin/Mayo v Armagh/Monaghan would be the other semi.
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 03:18:34 PM
I'd guess that there will be around 40K on the Saturday and 50K on the Sunday. There will be plenty of seats available and not that many will stay for the duration of 2 full matches
55-60k Saturday, Armagh Tyrone Monaghan have great supporters, Kerry might bring 2k. 1k which will live in Dublin.
70k-75k Sunday. Mayo will bring 30k Dublin 35k, Derry 10k Cork 500
11k in Ballybofey would suggest otherwise. Tyrone support isn't what it once was. Which is strange.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 26, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
Will the Derry wans be supporting Tyrone on Sat then as they'd rather play us than Dublin or Kerry in the semi?
Never!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 26, 2023, 04:33:23 PM
11k in Ballybofey would suggest otherwise. Tyrone support isn't what it once was. Which is strange.
[/quote]
When you've lifted it 4 times in the hogan since Derry last did it it becomes naturally taken for granted by folk.
Derry yearning is still there as provincial titles only say so much
Quote from: blanketattack on June 26, 2023, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 26, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
Exactly, seems like a stupid statement.
If Tyrone, Armagh and Derry win then there's no need for a draw. It will be Tyrone v Derry and Armagh v winner of other match. Not confident on that but it's a way to avoid a draw.
Just Tyrone and Derry alone winning stops the need for a draw.
Neither can face Armagh or Monaghan so have to face each other.
So Dublin/Mayo v Armagh/Monaghan would be the other semi.
Why can't Tyrone play Monaghan? I thought repeat pairings only applied to the all Ireland series and provincial finals? That's the rule that applied to the groups anyway.
Quote from: David McKeown on June 26, 2023, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 26, 2023, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 26, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
Exactly, seems like a stupid statement.
If Tyrone, Armagh and Derry win then there's no need for a draw. It will be Tyrone v Derry and Armagh v winner of other match. Not confident on that but it's a way to avoid a draw.
Just Tyrone and Derry alone winning stops the need for a draw.
Neither can face Armagh or Monaghan so have to face each other.
So Dublin/Mayo v Armagh/Monaghan would be the other semi.
Why can't Tyrone play Monaghan? I thought repeat pairings only applied to the all Ireland series and provincial finals? That's the rule that applied to the groups anyway.
Larry McCarthy this morning and GAA website both said any previous Championship meetings will be avoided if possible,.
Group stage was too complicated to stop repeat pairings besides Provincial Finals, so Derry v Monaghan was a repeat pairing.
Is the ticketmaster website banjaxed
Better of getting tickets later in the week
Quote from: David McKeown on June 26, 2023, 04:51:04 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 26, 2023, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 26, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 26, 2023, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 26, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
Mc Carthy says there may be a draw for the semi-finals.
Bit mad that.
Tis mad alright , Ted
So , in what scenario would there NOT be a draw?
Exactly, seems like a stupid statement.
If Tyrone, Armagh and Derry win then there's no need for a draw. It will be Tyrone v Derry and Armagh v winner of other match. Not confident on that but it's a way to avoid a draw.
Just Tyrone and Derry alone winning stops the need for a draw.
Neither can face Armagh or Monaghan so have to face each other.
So Dublin/Mayo v Armagh/Monaghan would be the other semi.
Why can't Tyrone play Monaghan? I thought repeat pairings only applied to the all Ireland series and provincial finals? That's the rule that applied to the groups anyway.
Different rule for the Semis in the T.O.
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 26, 2023, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 26, 2023, 04:33:23 PM
11k in Ballybofey would suggest otherwise. Tyrone support isn't what it once was. Which is strange.
When you've lifted it 4 times in the hogan since Derry last did it it becomes naturally taken for granted by folk.
Derry yearning is still there as provincial titles only say so much
[/quote]
Nice spot of fishing there kid!
Joking aside Walt, Tyrone fans are shite now as last 10 years or more.
No bite, they slag the team at the first opportunity and write their season off. There'd be plenty within the county looking to see them out secretly this weekend. Then the slagging will start again.
It's gone from a well supported county to a dislike towards them which I find very odd.
Most lads I know from the local few clubs between 20-35 wouldn't go to the game this weekend
Just tried booking tickets, seems theres no jeuvenile tickets left!
Try one adult one juvenile had to use 2 ticketmaster accounts but got 2+2 in same section eventually.
Bought 1 adult and 3 junior tickets but when I went to download only 3 junior tickets are shown.
Any reason why this would be the case, confused bearing in mind confirmation email from ticketmaster shows the 4 tickets.
Quote from: Schkite on June 26, 2023, 08:42:29 AM
Kerry v Tyrone
Armagh v Monaghan
Derry v Cork
Dublin v Mayo
You can't say GAA fix the draws now. 2 semi finals in the quarter finals stage. ;D
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 26, 2023, 05:18:27 PM
Better of getting tickets later in the week
Are tickets going out thru clubs too?
I've tried waiting a few times recently and it's never worked out too well for me.
I expect two big crowds, you'd think there'll be over 60k on Saturday and near enough a sellout on Sunday?
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 26, 2023, 04:09:25 PM
Ticketmaster webshite pure scutter
Is there anything that bes done well in this country
Ticketmaster is a global corporation, is ticketmaster.ie different to.other international offerings from the same compan?
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
Quote from: onefineday on June 27, 2023, 01:05:36 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 26, 2023, 05:18:27 PM
Better of getting tickets later in the week
Are tickets going out thru clubs too?
I've tried waiting a few times recently and it's never worked out too well for me.
I expect two big crowds, you'd think there'll be over 60k on Saturday and near enough a sellout on Sunday?
Ticketmaster not offering any tickets for Sundays games now.. even requesting 1 adult ticket is returning zero response. But can still get 2 adult, 4 juvenile in the Upper Canal End for Saturdays games. Thought the Best Supporters in the Country
TM would have all those tickets snapped up already. ;)
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
Its not giving any rain on Saturday so from that point of view you should be fine. I'd say the Canal End will be pretty full with families so might find yourself out of luck with that one.
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
You could try the FB group "GAA Croke Park Ticket Exchange", and try your luck at a swap there, just don't post the request, rather keep an eye out for offerings.
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
There'll be spare seats dotted around the place, it's rarely a full sellout unless a final. I wonder is the capacity open for 82k or 77k now, there was some issue with RTE studio taking up space before which seems madness.
Anyway, I'd just keep a lookout if you spot better seats in a big gap of emptys. What tends to happen is a percentage people don't be in for the first game if they're on second and others will leave after the first especially if they lost the first match. So there will always be gaps in seats.. Even you end up in someone else's and need to move it's not a big deal. It's worth chancing for people anyway if they don't like their view, are stuck beside some header or think they'll get rained on.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 27, 2023, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
You could try the FB group "GAA Croke Park Ticket Exchange", and try your luck at a swap there, just don't post the request, rather keep an eye out for offerings.
How genuine is that?
Fixtures made middle of the day yesterday yet there were tickets being offered on that shortly after?
Why would you buy tickets at 2pm and be selling them at 3?
Are you looking a pair for the mayo game Rossman? ;)
Face value PM me
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2023, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 27, 2023, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
You could try the FB group "GAA Croke Park Ticket Exchange", and try your luck at a swap there, just don't post the request, rather keep an eye out for offerings.
How genuine is that?
Fixtures made middle of the day yesterday yet there were tickets being offered on that shortly after?
Why would you buy tickets at 2pm and be selling them at 3?
No complaints from any of the users, and ours is not to reason why.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 27, 2023, 10:11:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2023, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 27, 2023, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Panic bought and ended up with row O in Davin with two very young kids now when I investigate looks like View would have been better further back and we are not likely to be covered FML.
Wonder will it be easy to move back on the day
You could try the FB group "GAA Croke Park Ticket Exchange", and try your luck at a swap there, just don't post the request, rather keep an eye out for offerings.
How genuine is that?
Fixtures made middle of the day yesterday yet there were tickets being offered on that shortly after?
Why would you buy tickets at 2pm and be selling them at 3?
No complaints from any of the users, and ours is not to reason why.
Why?
Why not?
Is Sunday genuinely sold out at this stage??
No tickets available on line anyway at this point...
Wonder will there be a further release??
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 27, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Is Sunday genuinely sold out at this stage??
No tickets available on line anyway at this point...
Wonder will there be a further release??
Seeing what season ticket holders are doing first?? (cant be that many causing this sort of delay......)
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 27, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Is Sunday genuinely sold out at this stage??
No tickets available on line anyway at this point...
Wonder will there be a further release??
Do clubs still get tickets?
In Tyrone anyway you'll be waiting right upto the last minute Friday night likely - which isn't ideal
Plus you'll all be grouped together in the same section. In fairness tickets are usually decent
It will be interesting to see how competitive the quarter finals are. It will probably be better than last year when only one was.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 27, 2023, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 27, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Is Sunday genuinely sold out at this stage??
No tickets available on line anyway at this point...
Wonder will there be a further release??
Do clubs still get tickets?
Clubs have a special link to buy through. At least the Dublin clubs do anyway ;)
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 27, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
Is Sunday genuinely sold out at this stage??
No tickets available on line anyway at this point...
Wonder will there be a further release??
Will be further release.
Neither matches are expected to sell out according to Croke Park themselves. Roughly 70k attendance on Saturday and again on Sunday.
Still no tickets out today, maybe 5pm release down south is the North 6pm.
Translink have put on extra train for this Sunday. Derry GAA should be sharing that but maybe they don't know themselves :o
This is so true.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/26/denis-walsh-everyone-left-in-the-hurling-championship-is-racing-against-time/
There is an emotional component to championship matches that doesn't exist week-in, week-out in the bread-and-butter leagues of professional sports. In the GAA, emotional investment is what distinguishes the seasons. Those emotions can't be kept on a boilerplate, they need time to cool and heat.
Train from where? You be in Dublin by the time passed Newry
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 28, 2023, 05:53:53 PM
Translink have put on extra train for this Sunday. Derry GAA should be sharing that but maybe they don't know themselves :o
47 quid
28 for a kid
No thanks
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 28, 2023, 06:15:03 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 28, 2023, 05:53:53 PM
Translink have put on extra train for this Sunday. Derry GAA should be sharing that but maybe they don't know themselves :o
47 quid
28 for a kid
No thanks
Priced it, £163.20 for four of us
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If Derry beat Cork, then the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 08:45:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If Derry beat Cork, then the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
Unless all 3 teams from Group 1 win their quarter-finals, ie Kerry, Cork and Mayo. Then 2 of them must meet in a semi-final.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 08:45:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If Derry beat Cork, then the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
Unless all 3 teams from Group 1 win their quarter-finals, ie Kerry, Cork and Mayo. Then 2 of them must meet in a semi-final.
Yes, hence my "If Derry beat Cork" predicate
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 08:45:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If Derry beat Cork, then the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
Unless all 3 teams from Group 1 win their quarter-finals, ie Kerry, Cork and Mayo. Then 2 of them must meet in a semi-final.
Yes, hence my "If Derry beat Cork" predicate
OK...didn't see that "If Derry beat Cork" applied to all 3 lines of your post.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 08:45:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If (Derry beat Cork) then
{ the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
}
Unless all 3 teams from Group 1 win their quarter-finals, ie Kerry, Cork and Mayo. Then 2 of them must meet in a semi-final.
Yes, hence my "If Derry beat Cork" predicate
OK...didn't see that "If Derry beat Cork" applied to all 3 lines of your post.
OK, now fixed for better legibility 🤓
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:36:52 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 08:45:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If (Derry beat Cork) then
{ the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
}
Unless all 3 teams from Group 1 win their quarter-finals, ie Kerry, Cork and Mayo. Then 2 of them must meet in a semi-final.
Yes, hence my "If Derry beat Cork" predicate
OK...didn't see that "If Derry beat Cork" applied to all 3 lines of your post.
OK, now fixed for better legibility 🤓
Spot the software developer!
I honestly think Derry v Cork is a 50/50, yet there seem to be very few who are speaking about Cork.
That will suit them down to the ground coming in under the radar despite having some huge performances and results recently.
In fact, their results have been more impressive than Derry's.
It's going to be tight.
Paddy Power have Derry at 4/11. I make that about right
Quote from: God14 on June 29, 2023, 09:20:45 AM
Paddy Power have Derry at 4/11. I make that about right
Derry will probably score 4.11
I don't think Cork are ready for Derry.
Roscommon are a poor version of Derry. Even Derry in the league won't prepare Cork for what's coming Sunday.
I wonder is Rory Gallagher still being sought for input from the Derry management on the QT or is he completely gone?
And sure, isn't David Clifford only a poor man's Shane McGuigan if you listen to Paul Flynn?
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 28, 2023, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 28, 2023, 08:45:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
5 times between 2013 and last year the same 4 counties - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone - featured in the All Ireland semi finals.
This was the firm .
Now Dublin are playing Mayo and Kerry are playing Tyrone. So there are 2 semi final spots for new teams. If the winners of Dublin/Mayo were to play Kerry/Tyrone in the semi there would be a slot in the final for a new team.
If Derry beat Cork, then the winner of Dublin/Mayo can't meet the winner of Tyrone/Kerry in the semi-final.
If Tyrone win, they automatically meet Derry in the semi-final with no need for a draw.
If Kerry win, they can't meet Dublin or Mayo in the semi-final, Kerry would have a 50:50 chance of Derry or the winner of Armagh/Monaghan
Unless all 3 teams from Group 1 win their quarter-finals, ie Kerry, Cork and Mayo. Then 2 of them must meet in a semi-final.
Unless the Group 1 teams go straight to Champions League.
Why can't Kerry met Dublin, last year set up no relevance this year?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2023, 11:22:18 AM
Why can't Kerry met Dublin, last year set up no relevance this year?
I presume they can if Monaghan and Cork win or Cork and Armagh win as will be no repeat pairings?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2023, 11:22:18 AM
Why can't Kerry met Dublin, last year set up no relevance this year?
If Derry beat Cork, Kerry can't meet Dublin because Derry can't meet Monaghan (Round 1) or Armagh (Ulster Final).
And if Derry can't meet Armagh/Monaghan then the opposite fixture in the semi can't occur either.
So in fact regardless of who comes out of Kerry-Tyrone and Dublin-Mayo, the fixture Kerry/Tyrone v Dublin/Mayo can't occur for the semi (if Derry beat Cork)
56 pages of wondering who'll play who! Holy f**k
I'd just worry about the next 70mins of football first.
Quote from: maddog on June 29, 2023, 04:56:54 PM
I'd just worry about the next 70mins of football first.
the first 70 minutes isn't the problem, it is the penalty shootout!
It's a bit like the Wizard of Oz
Monaghan don't seem to have courage to beat the big teams
Derry don't seem to have a brain
Mayo don't have a marquee forward
The Dubs don't have the elixir of youth
Kerry don't have David Moran
And then there is Cork
Can Derry and Monaghan meet again before the final?
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2023, 03:14:19 PM
Can Derry and Monaghan meet again before the final?
Nope
Kerry guaranteed to play one of the Ulster teams, the winner of Dub/Mayo will play the other Ulster team.
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2023, 01:41:06 PM
It's a bit like the Wizard of Oz
Monaghan don't seem to have courage to beat the big teams
Derry don't seem to have a brain
Mayo don't have a marquee forward
The Dubs don't have the elixir of youth
Kerry don't have David Moran
And then there is Cork
Fcuk me, I know alot of stuff is thrown at Monaghan, but this must be the first time I've seen something say they lack courage
So Monaghan and Derry boys... who do yez want? ;D
There could be blood in the semi's for the 2 Ulster sides.
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2023, 05:33:52 PM
So Monaghan and Derry boys... who do yez want? ;D
Talk about picking your poison, fooking hell :o
Monaghan to be drawn against either Kerry or Dublin, it's nice to be wanted.
Exact same semi-finalists in the minor & senior championships this season. Wouldn't mind if the finalists were the same too
Derry and Monaghan will make them work for it in the semis, but the evidence from the weekend suggests that Kerry and Dublin are a significant step above the supporting cast.
Probably not a lot between the next 5 or 6. All could wriggle through a series of games against each other, but none have a mission of actually winning an AI. Fair fucks to Tyrone for sneaking that Covid AI - could end up being the only non-Dubs/ Kerry winner for a very long time.
It's clear Dublin and Kerry are levels above the rest. Tyrone and Mayo could not even make it competitive.
Monaghan and Derry will just try to keep the score down. Been a poor enough championship as a spectacle, a lot of matches but nearly all either terrible negative stuff or totally uncompetitive.
Semi final draw
Kerry v Derry
Dublin v Monaghan
Derry Monaghan final. Written in the stars.
All set up for another big Kerry v Dublin showdown. Would love to be wrong but I can't see either Derry or Monaghan troubling either side in the semi final. After that it's really toss of a coin, very hard to say with any certainty that either side are favourites.
At least both Derry,Monaghan will have two week to prepare which should be the case for all last 8 teams.
When will we know the days?
Quote from: Schkite on July 02, 2023, 03:40:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2023, 01:41:06 PM
It's a bit like the Wizard of Oz
Monaghan don't seem to have courage to beat the big teams
Derry don't seem to have a brain
Mayo don't have a marquee forward
The Dubs don't have the elixir of youth
Kerry don't have David Moran
And then there is Cork
Fcuk me, I know alot of stuff is thrown at Monaghan, but this must be the first time I've seen something say they lack courage
This is not about regular matches
Monaghan do not believe that they can win the all Ireland
That is very sad imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-35cMdd90&t=2410s
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 06:03:19 PM
Derry Monaghan final. Written in the stars.
Same as minors
Same last 4 too
Dublin 1/6
Kerry 4/11
Thought both would be shorter to be honest
Kerry conceded the kick out to Tyrone, I don't think you can do that vs Derry as they won't give the ball away cheaply in attack like Tyrone did, making Kerry look great on the counter. Derry also have a stronger midfield than Kerry if they do force the kickouts long. The game will be tighter than people think and I fancy Derry's chances of an upset.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 02, 2023, 06:20:04 PM
When will we know the days?
Tomorrow, I'd say Kerry v Derry will be on the Saturday after the Tailteann cup final and Dublin v Monaghan on the Sunday
Tailteann cup final already set for 3pm on Saturday.
At a guess
Saturday
Kerry v Derry 5pm
Sunday
Dublin v Monaghan 4pm
As much as I was glad Monaghan beat Armagh, I think Armagh likely would give Dublin a better game.
That said I don't think Derry or Monaghan will do any worse than the likes of Mayo and Tyrone showed this weekend. That was extremely disappointing by both sides who are much more fancied, many tipping them to win those games.
Could anyone be arsed with a kerry dublin final if it is that might be a good game but people are going to become disillusioned if they them two keep dominating.
Quote from: Eire90 on July 02, 2023, 09:44:27 PM
Could anyone be arsed with a kerry dublin final if it is that might be a good game but people are going to become disillusioned if they them two keep dominating.
I'm disillusioned myself after the weekend. Far too many awful matches, most games are either very negative like Derry Cork or mismatches like Mayo Dublin etc
Id rather also see Dublin or Kerry not win everything since they have dominated throughout history. I do think the media try to play down how far ahead Dublin and Kerry are to make it seem more interesting. There was huge guff about Galway and Mayo being the favourites this year, well the past week said it all about that.
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
As much as I was glad Monaghan beat Armagh, I think Armagh likely would give Dublin a better game.
That said I don't think Derry or Monaghan will do any worse than the likes of Mayo and Tyrone showed this weekend. That was extremely disappointing by both sides who are much more fancied, many tipping them to win those games.
Monaghan will rightly be looking forward to semi final. I would rate Mayo stronger than Monaghan in championship football and if Dublin are as motivated and go at Monaghan like they did Mayo, it could be one of the biggest winning, All Ireland semi final margins ever.
I think Derry are better than Tyrone but I don't see them keeping a Kerry winning margin below 8 points.
It's going to be a classic All Ireland Final this year, can't wait for it.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 02, 2023, 08:27:35 PM
Tailteann cup final already set for 3pm on Saturday.
At a guess
Saturday
Kerry v Derry 5pm
Sunday
Dublin v Monaghan 4pm
Almost... Will be 6pm
Quote from: Gael80 on July 02, 2023, 09:48:53 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
As much as I was glad Monaghan beat Armagh, I think Armagh likely would give Dublin a better game.
That said I don't think Derry or Monaghan will do any worse than the likes of Mayo and Tyrone showed this weekend. That was extremely disappointing by both sides who are much more fancied, many tipping them to win those games.
Monaghan will rightly be looking forward to semi final. I would rate Mayo stronger than Monaghan in championship football and if Dublin are as motivated and go at Monaghan like they did Mayo, it could be one of the biggest winning, All Ireland semi final margins ever.
I think Derry are better than Tyrone but I don't see them keeping a Kerry winning margin below 8 points.
It's going to be a classic All Ireland Final this year, can't wait for it.
Depends how Monaghan set up defensively if as poor and loose marking as Mayo it won't be pretty.
Derry has a set system in place that game could be a slugfest
Saturday July 15
All-Ireland SFC Semi-Final
Dublin v Monaghan, Croke Park, 5.30pm, RTE/BBC
Tailteann Cup Final
Down v Meath, Croke Park, 3pm, RTE
Sunday July 16
All-Ireland SFC Semi-Final
Derry v Kerry, Croke Park, 4pm, RTE/BBC
All-Ireland JFC Final
New York/Warwickshire v Kilkenny/London, Croke Park, 1.30pm
Quote from: markl121 on July 02, 2023, 10:33:50 PM
Saturday July 15
All-Ireland SFC Semi-Final
Dublin v Monaghan, Croke Park, 5.30pm, RTE/BBC
Tailteann Cup Final
Down v Meath, Croke Park, 3pm, RTE
Sunday July 16
All-Ireland SFC Semi-Final
Derry v Kerry, Croke Park, 4pm, RTE/BBC
All-Ireland JFC Final
New York/Warwickshire v Kilkenny/London, Croke Park, 1.30pm
Down have the support of Dublin and Monaghan supporters in Tailteann final then??
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
As much as I was glad Monaghan beat Armagh, I think Armagh likely would give Dublin a better game.
That said I don't think Derry or Monaghan will do any worse than the likes of Mayo and Tyrone showed this weekend. That was extremely disappointing by both sides who are much more fancied, many tipping them to win those games.
Monagahn won't fear Dublin and will give them their fill of it. Derry will be a whole lot closer to Kerry than Tyrone were, but don't see either of the Ulster teams causing an upset
Quote from: Mario on July 02, 2023, 06:36:07 PM
Kerry conceded the kick out to Tyrone, I don't think you can do that vs Derry as they won't give the ball away cheaply in attack like Tyrone did, making Kerry look great on the counter. Derry also have a stronger midfield than Kerry if they do force the kickouts long. The game will be tighter than people think and I fancy Derry's chances of an upset.
Derrys midfield haven't been dominate in the air too often this year
Quote from: NotedObserver on July 03, 2023, 07:35:35 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 02, 2023, 06:36:07 PM
Kerry conceded the kick out to Tyrone, I don't think you can do that vs Derry as they won't give the ball away cheaply in attack like Tyrone did, making Kerry look great on the counter. Derry also have a stronger midfield than Kerry if they do force the kickouts long. The game will be tighter than people think and I fancy Derry's chances of an upset.
Derrys midfield haven't been dominate in the air too often this year
Someone said on RTE yesterday that their job is more a mix of defence and making attacks happen
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:54:32 AM
Quote from: NotedObserver on July 03, 2023, 07:35:35 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 02, 2023, 06:36:07 PM
Kerry conceded the kick out to Tyrone, I don't think you can do that vs Derry as they won't give the ball away cheaply in attack like Tyrone did, making Kerry look great on the counter. Derry also have a stronger midfield than Kerry if they do force the kickouts long. The game will be tighter than people think and I fancy Derry's chances of an upset.
Derrys midfield haven't been dominate in the air too often this year
Someone said on RTE yesterday that their job is more a mix of defence and making attacks happen
I thought they did very well v Cork on long kickouts, especially Glass
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 03, 2023, 03:59:57 AM
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
As much as I was glad Monaghan beat Armagh, I think Armagh likely would give Dublin a better game.
That said I don't think Derry or Monaghan will do any worse than the likes of Mayo and Tyrone showed this weekend. That was extremely disappointing by both sides who are much more fancied, many tipping them to win those games.
Monagahn won't fear Dublin and will give them their fill of it. Derry will be a whole lot closer to Kerry than Tyrone were, but don't see either of the Ulster teams causing an upset
Can't see either Ulster team getting near Kerry or Dublin
Kerry and Dublin will both win by 12+ points
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 03, 2023, 10:09:41 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 03, 2023, 03:59:57 AM
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:42:02 PM
As much as I was glad Monaghan beat Armagh, I think Armagh likely would give Dublin a better game.
That said I don't think Derry or Monaghan will do any worse than the likes of Mayo and Tyrone showed this weekend. That was extremely disappointing by both sides who are much more fancied, many tipping them to win those games.
Monagahn won't fear Dublin and will give them their fill of it. Derry will be a whole lot closer to Kerry than Tyrone were, but don't see either of the Ulster teams causing an upset
Can't see either Ulster team getting near Kerry or Dublin
Kerry and Dublin will both win by 12+ points
I'm not sure of this, the margin should be less. Dublin did not thrive against Roscommon in the group stages, and if Monaghan keep their shape then the score may be kept down. Of course, Monaghan have been known to have off days too. Likewise, Derry are better than Tyrone and should keep it tighter.
Quote from: Mario on July 03, 2023, 09:19:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:54:32 AM
Quote from: NotedObserver on July 03, 2023, 07:35:35 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 02, 2023, 06:36:07 PM
Kerry conceded the kick out to Tyrone, I don't think you can do that vs Derry as they won't give the ball away cheaply in attack like Tyrone did, making Kerry look great on the counter. Derry also have a stronger midfield than Kerry if they do force the kickouts long. The game will be tighter than people think and I fancy Derry's chances of an upset.
Derrys midfield haven't been dominate in the air too often this year
Someone said on RTE yesterday that their job is more a mix of defence and making attacks happen
I thought they did very well v Cork on long kickouts, especially Glass
I thought so too. In the 2nd half we pressed their kickout and won or broke the majority of long kicks.
It seems like an anticlimax. Journalists didn't have a clue either, saying that quarter finals would be more equal or that it was going to be like 2010 with
none of the established teams left in the semis. It's a bit like Real Madrid in the final again.
To Quote.
QuoteIf Monaghan and Derry win both their semi finals the All-Ireland final will be null and void for 2023 due to both teams playing each other earlier in the group stage
Share the title lol
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 03, 2023, 06:12:23 PM
To Quote.
QuoteIf Monaghan and Derry win both their semi finals the All-Ireland final will be null and void for 2023 due to both teams playing each other earlier in the group stage
Seems fair
This thing where teams can't meet again is ridiculous. If Tyrone had reached the semis , Monaghan couldn't draw them because they played way back in the first round of Ulster? How many rounds ago is that? Madness.
The only thing about the way the semis draw has worked out is that you'll more likely get a competitive All Ireland final in Kerry and Dublin. Had one of the Ulster teams reached the final , I'd imagine it would be very one sided . Having said that , It's another AI final featuring those two , and it's not as if Kerry or Dublin are lacking in AI titles , but there ya go
They should play the semis in the morning as warm up games and the Dublin v Kerry game that afternoon?
Quote from: deadlock on July 03, 2023, 11:24:09 PM
They should play the semis in the morning as warm up games and the Dublin v Kerry game that afternoon?
I hope that post comes back to haunt you.
Monaghan have always caused Dublin plenty of problems, I see the nxt game no difference. Dublin were very good today, but Mayo calfed, they should been ahead at half time. Gave 2 very poor goals away and missed a sitter of a goal. The older a mayo team would kept with it. This team gave up, abit like last year against Kerry.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 03, 2023, 11:35:03 PM
Monaghan have always caused Dublin plenty of problems, I see the nxt game no difference. Dublin were very good today, but Mayo calfed, they should been ahead at half time. Gave 2 very poor goals away and missed a sitter of a goal. The older a mayo team would kept with it. This team gave up, abit like last year against Kerry.
Agree - the first goal was awful ball-watching by O'Hora, the second a classic end line error.
The first 15 minutes of this are very good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-4bxDLKnZg
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 03, 2023, 11:35:03 PM
Monaghan have always caused Dublin plenty of problems, I see the nxt game no difference. Dublin were very good today, but Mayo calfed, they should been ahead at half time. Gave 2 very poor goals away and missed a sitter of a goal. The older a mayo team would kept with it. This team gave up, abit like last year against Kerry.
We have not caused Dublin any problems in the 2 1/4 final championship games. Whilst we have put it up to Kerry in the last 3 championship outings. Albeit one big defeat to the Dubs was exagerbated by the corner back doing in his ACL but played on, leaking 2 goals to his opponent and effectively killing the game. I would have preferred to meet Kerry, just because of our history with them.
In the 2 semis - I expect that Derry's defensive system won't hold out simply because Kerry have too many good players with power & speed and they don't play with the fear that paralyses lesser teams, they will punch holes in it with increasing regularity as the game goes on. I don't think Derry have enough up front either, Tyrone had 3 marquee forwards and none of them counted and when you consider McGuigan will likely get the treatment it wouldn't surprise me if he's off before half time in an 'accidental' collision, I don't see who is picking up the slack or helping him to a meaningful level. I'd imagine Kerry will target Glass as well, quite possibly physically but I mean in disrupting his influence, he could well be man marked.
Without wanting to insult Monaghan I can't see them progressing to another level and the level that beat Armagh wont beat Dublin. I did think Mayo gave up the ghost very easily last Sunday tho, they gifted 2 goals, missed an absolute sitter themselves, on another day that game would have been a lot closer, so maybe Monaghan can take some solace from that as they'll surely not give up the ghost, overall I'd say Kerry look to be in pole position.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 04, 2023, 03:20:26 PM
In the 2 semis - I expect that Derry's defensive system won't hold out simply because Kerry have too many good players with power & speed and they don't play with the fear that paralyses lesser teams, they will punch holes in it with increasing regularity as the game goes on. I don't think Derry have enough up front either, Tyrone had 3 marquee forwards and none of them counted and when you consider McGuigan will likely get the treatment it wouldn't surprise me if he's off before half time in an 'accidental' collision, I don't see who is picking up the slack or helping him to a meaningful level. I'd imagine Kerry will target Glass as well, quite possibly physically but I mean in disrupting his influence, he could well be man marked.
Without wanting to insult Monaghan I can't see them progressing to another level and the level that beat Armagh wont beat Dublin. I did think Mayo gave up the ghost very easily last Sunday tho, they gifted 2 goals, missed an absolute sitter themselves, on another day that game would have been a lot closer, so maybe Monaghan can take some solace from that as they'll surely not give up the ghost, overall I'd say Kerry look to be in pole position.
Not much point Derry turning up then...
Quote from: seanyb on July 04, 2023, 03:49:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 04, 2023, 03:20:26 PM
In the 2 semis - I expect that Derry's defensive system won't hold out simply because Kerry have too many good players with power & speed and they don't play with the fear that paralyses lesser teams, they will punch holes in it with increasing regularity as the game goes on. I don't think Derry have enough up front either, Tyrone had 3 marquee forwards and none of them counted and when you consider McGuigan will likely get the treatment it wouldn't surprise me if he's off before half time in an 'accidental' collision, I don't see who is picking up the slack or helping him to a meaningful level. I'd imagine Kerry will target Glass as well, quite possibly physically but I mean in disrupting his influence, he could well be man marked.
Without wanting to insult Monaghan I can't see them progressing to another level and the level that beat Armagh wont beat Dublin. I did think Mayo gave up the ghost very easily last Sunday tho, they gifted 2 goals, missed an absolute sitter themselves, on another day that game would have been a lot closer, so maybe Monaghan can take some solace from that as they'll surely not give up the ghost, overall I'd say Kerry look to be in pole position.
Not much point Derry turning up then...
They'll only be a kick of the ball in it on Sunday week
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 02, 2023, 09:44:27 PM
Could anyone be arsed with a kerry dublin final if it is that might be a good game but people are going to become disillusioned if they them two keep dominating.
I'm disillusioned myself after the weekend. Far too many awful matches, most games are either very negative like Derry Cork or mismatches like Mayo Dublin etc
Id rather also see Dublin or Kerry not win everything since they have dominated throughout history. I do think the media try to play down how far ahead Dublin and Kerry are to make it seem more interesting. There was huge guff about Galway and Mayo being the favourites this year, well the past week said it all about that.
I think a lot of counties are disillusioned but the facts are that over the last 20 years, only 3 teams have broken the Kerry-Dublin dominance. The 90s had much more variations in different winners but for the most part it's always been a two horse race.
2021 Tyrone
2012 Donegal
2010 Cork
2008 Tyrone
2005 Tyrone
2003 Tyrone
All the chat this year about it being such an open championship looks to be ill founded although Derry & Monaghan might surprise us all.
As a spectacle the game really has gone backwards and as Aaron Kernan remarked on Saturday how he's never seen Kerry fans cheer so much for turnovers before.
Several matches now see all 30 players in the other teams half at times.
If you are a neutral you wouldnt pay in to watch it any more but like the Derry fans are experiencing, when your team is winning with these style of play then you feel it's not that bad to watch.
Competitive sport is all about the winning.
Entertaining neutrals doesn't come into it.
No neutrals will pay to watch other Counties.
Isn't it 18 of the last 20 AIs have gone to Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 04:42:22 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 02, 2023, 09:44:27 PM
Could anyone be arsed with a kerry dublin final if it is that might be a good game but people are going to become disillusioned if they them two keep dominating.
I'm disillusioned myself after the weekend. Far too many awful matches, most games are either very negative like Derry Cork or mismatches like Mayo Dublin etc
Id rather also see Dublin or Kerry not win everything since they have dominated throughout history. I do think the media try to play down how far ahead Dublin and Kerry are to make it seem more interesting. There was huge guff about Galway and Mayo being the favourites this year, well the past week said it all about that.
I think a lot of counties are disillusioned but the facts are that over the last 20 years, only 3 teams have broken the Kerry-Dublin dominance. The 90s had much more variations in different winners but for the most part it's always been a two horse race.
2021 Tyrone
2012 Donegal
2010 Cork
2008 Tyrone
2005 Tyrone
2003 Tyrone
All the chat this year about it being such an open championship looks to be ill founded although Derry & Monaghan might surprise us all.
As a spectacle the game really has gone backwards and as Aaron Kernan remarked on Saturday how he's never seen Kerry fans cheer so much for turnovers before.
Several matches now see all 30 players in the other teams half at times.
If you are a neutral you wouldnt pay in to watch it any more but like the Derry fans are experiencing, when your team is winning with these style of play then you feel it's not that bad to watch.
Very much so. Most of us like to see great attacking play, great scores, good skills , nicely worked scores. What we see now is akin to one of those sliding tile puzzles. Keep moving things around so much , til we get an inch of space 14 yards out , and tap it over the bar. Would sicken your Shiite . The game as a spectacle has totally gone to the dogs .
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 04:42:22 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 02, 2023, 09:48:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 02, 2023, 09:44:27 PM
Could anyone be arsed with a kerry dublin final if it is that might be a good game but people are going to become disillusioned if they them two keep dominating.
I'm disillusioned myself after the weekend. Far too many awful matches, most games are either very negative like Derry Cork or mismatches like Mayo Dublin etc
Id rather also see Dublin or Kerry not win everything since they have dominated throughout history. I do think the media try to play down how far ahead Dublin and Kerry are to make it seem more interesting. There was huge guff about Galway and Mayo being the favourites this year, well the past week said it all about that.
I think a lot of counties are disillusioned but the facts are that over the last 20 years, only 3 teams have broken the Kerry-Dublin dominance. The 90s had much more variations in different winners but for the most part it's always been a two horse race.
2021 Tyrone
2012 Donegal
2010 Cork
2008 Tyrone
2005 Tyrone
2003 Tyrone
All the chat this year about it being such an open championship looks to be ill founded although Derry & Monaghan might surprise us all.
As a spectacle the game really has gone backwards and as Aaron Kernan remarked on Saturday how he's never seen Kerry fans cheer so much for turnovers before.
Several matches now see all 30 players in the other teams half at times.
If you are a neutral you wouldnt pay in to watch it any more but like the Derry fans are experiencing, when your team is winning with these style of play then you feel it's not that bad to watch.
It's all about performing in the quarter final and not declaring anything before that.
They made a mess of the pre quarter final timing. With another week off who knows?
If I hear another person say armagh have no luck I really don't know. Did armagh not have the handiest draw in ulster in a while? Did they not catch a massive break scoring that goal against westmeath? They played well against galway but ride their luck to earn a win. Seriously, they've had their fair share thus year
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
Galway were beat by Armagh and Mayo, they'd the same rest before these games as their opposition. Mayo were beat by Cork and Dublin. If you are in the top 4 in the country it's likely you will top your group and get the 2 weeks rest. If you aren't you will suffer.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
Why bother with all these games to see who gets to the last 4.
Sure RTE podcast can make that decision next year.
RTE podcast has opinions, nothing more, and we all know what opinions are like.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So who are the other two best teams?
Galway?
Hmm no, armagh beat galway and monaghan beat Armagh.
Mayo?
Hmm no, Cork beat Mayo and Derry beat Cork.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Well galway certainly won't be
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 04, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Who said they don't have a right to be there? they played by the rules. I don't think the matches will be up to the standard of a few weeks ago. That is a pity.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 04, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Who said they don't have a right to be there? they played by the rules. I don't think the matches will be up to the standard of a few weeks ago. That is a pity.
You are certainly suggesting they don't have a right to be there.
What standard? In which games of a few weeks ago?
A galway supporter has no right to be pointing a disapproving finger at a team with a defensive strategy, and a mayo supporter should be envying a team with a defensive strategy.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Were Mayo or Tyrone? Also that point has no relevance to whether the best teams are represented in the last four.
Last 4 standing are the top 4. Simple as. Everything else is just jealousy. What integrity does an RTÉ podcast have? How much is Enda McGinley getting paid? He has been writing off Derry for months but not his own county for some editorial reason?!! RTÉ has a clear agenda and it doesn't include certain counties.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 04, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Who said they don't have a right to be there? they played by the rules. I don't think the matches will be up to the standard of a few weeks ago. That is a pity.
Go on then, which matches will they not be up to the standard of?
Which pairings would you like to see at AISF stage?
Quote from: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 12:34:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 04, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Who said they don't have a right to be there? they played by the rules. I don't think the matches will be up to the standard of a few weeks ago. That is a pity.
Go on then, which matches will they not be up to the standard of?
Which pairings would you like to see at AISF stage?
Any competitive match in the round robins. The semi finals will not be competitive.
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
Who are better than Derry and Monaghan? Mayo, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone? Don't think you could say any of those teams are definitively better than either, clearly not much between Armagh and Galway or Monaghan or Derry, Mayo and Tyrone had their chance against the top 2 and were beat out the gate. Let's see how Monaghan and Derry do next week, hopefully give Dublin and Kerry closer games than the 2 quarter finals anyway.
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 05:24:50 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 12:34:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 04, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Who said they don't have a right to be there? they played by the rules. I don't think the matches will be up to the standard of a few weeks ago. That is a pity.
Go on then, which matches will they not be up to the standard of?
Which pairings would you like to see at AISF stage?
Any competitive match in the round robins. The semi finals will not be competitive.
Its quite clear that, anti Ulster bias and jealousy are dripping of your every word.
Be specific, which counties have more right to be there than Monaghan and Derry? What round Robin games do you deem to be better than two games which have not been played yet?
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 05:24:50 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 12:34:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 04, 2023, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2023, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
It was a mistake to run 3 weekends in a row. The competition suffered.
What a load of nonsense.
So are Derry and Monaghan going to be there in the 69th minute looking for a winner ?
Whatever the gap between Derry , Monaghan and Dublin , Kerry. It is a long way closer than the gap to any of the other 28 counties. Because Derry and Monaghan have earned the right to be there.
So, seeing as you are convinced, Derry and Monaghan do not have the right to be there , tell us which two other teams you believe should be ?
Who said they don't have a right to be there? they played by the rules. I don't think the matches will be up to the standard of a few weeks ago. That is a pity.
Go on then, which matches will they not be up to the standard of?
Which pairings would you like to see at AISF stage?
Any competitive match in the round robins. The semi finals will not be competitive.
That remains to be seen, I think most Derry supporters aren't as pessimistic about what's in front of them as you seem to be, and having watched Dublin quite a bit this year, I remain unconvinced.
That said, if Kerry and Dublin have the same facile victories they've had in their last 2 games, is there anybody out there who would have been better able to make the games competitive?
Seafoid, no harm you are talking nonsense. The last 4 are the last 4. Going on the performances, I don't think you could make a strong case for any other county being there instead. Galway, dropped away and were extremely disappointing, Mayo not at the races, same for Tyrone. Armagh ran Monaghan close, but I think that's more to do with Monaghan being below the standard of the other 3. None of those counties could claim to be better. Connaught were very disappointing from my own perspective as I had rated both Galway and Mayo's chances this year. But both seem to have regressed slightly.
Dublin and Kerry are stronger than previous years. Derry seem to be continuing their development and are dangerously consistent imo and could have a say yet. The rest are in a grouping. Much of a muchness.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 05, 2023, 08:44:35 AM
Seafoid, no harm you are talking nonsense. The last 4 are the last 4. Going on the performances, I don't think you could make a strong case for any other county being there instead. Galway, dropped away and were extremely disappointing, Mayo not at the races, same for Tyrone. Armagh ran Monaghan close, but I think that's more to do with Monaghan being below the standard of the other 3. None of those counties could claim to be better. Connaught were very disappointing from my own perspective as I had rated both Galway and Mayo's chances this year. But both seem to have regressed slightly.
Dublin and Kerry are stronger than previous years. Derry seem to be continuing their development and are dangerously consistent imo and could have a say yet. The rest are in a grouping. Much of a muchness.
I was relaying what the RTE podcast said.
If the 2 semi finals are close and go down to the wire you are correct.
But even if they don't, it doesn't mean any of the other teams would have faired any better. Tyrone & Mayo were so poor, Galway beat by a point, but by a team that are well off the pace. Armagh, Cork couldn't claim to be any better. If there was a stand out team, that just got caught on the hop and were pipped on the day, you could make a case. But that hasn't been the case this year. Top three teams are there in Derry, Dublin & Kerry. Monaghan there on merit although a step down from the others imo.
One of the GAA's greatest strengths is hindsight.
Debate about teams having to play 3 weeks in a row. Hasn't been mentioned in the months previous to this. But now it's an issue by some pundits cause the "better" teams didn't get to the last 4. We seem obsessed with trying to create structures that the best teams on paper get to the last stages. It's the nature of the competition that there should be risk and reward for progressing at various stages.
If they had been scheduled a weeks rest and played and say Mayo beat Dublin or Tyrone beat Kerry, the opposite debate would be heard that the better teams where unprepared by waiting weeks without a game and those that played 3 games in 4 weeks and got a weeks rest are more game conditioned.
Otherwise we just go league basis or straight knockout as any other way is going to have variations of games V rest.
There are only two unbeaten teams in the last 4,
But according to Seafoid and RTE one of those teams shouldn't be there. But can't name the teams that should be there nor give an insight as to why.
Quote from: Louther on July 05, 2023, 09:43:41 AM
One of the GAA's greatest strengths is hindsight.
This is it. Monday morning quarterbacking. Fickle fans praising players they were bemoaning the week before.
Your team progresses, the format works. They get eliminated, it's unfair.
A game is boring, change the rules.
Drunk fans, ban them at the gates.
Hawkeye malfunctions, get rid of it.
Can we not try to be proactive rather than reactive?
There was some exceptionally lazy analysis by pundits before the Round Robin started about how "it was all a waste of time to only eliminate 4 teams".
It was as if they hadn't realised that finishing 1st was much better than 2nd and 2nd was a fair bit better than finishing 3rd given the structure of the PQFs and QFs.
Quote from: Louther on July 05, 2023, 09:43:41 AM
One of the GAA's greatest strengths is hindsight.
Debate about teams having to play 3 weeks in a row. Hasn't been mentioned in the months previous to this. But now it's an issue by some pundits cause the "better" teams didn't get to the last 4. We seem obsessed with trying to create structures that the best teams on paper get to the last stages. It's the nature of the competition that there should be risk and reward for progressing at various stages.
If they had been scheduled a weeks rest and played and say Mayo beat Dublin or Tyrone beat Kerry, the opposite debate would be heard that the better teams where unprepared by waiting weeks without a game and those that played 3 games in 4 weeks and got a weeks rest are more game conditioned.
Otherwise we just go league basis or straight knockout as any other way is going to have variations of games V rest.
That is exactly it. The narrative is always twisted to suit the agenda.
Seafoid - you throw out various statements and when asked about it you say you are only relaying what someone else said but don't offer any of your own insight. You don't seem to think Derry or Monaghan should be in the semis. So who should?
Exactly. If teams haven't enough competitive games then it's they don't have competitive games and if they have too many then they have too many etc.
The last 4 are there on merit. There's been enough games to decide them.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 05, 2023, 10:33:57 AM
There was some exceptionally lazy analysis by pundits before the Round Robin started about how "it was all a waste of time to only eliminate 4 teams".
It was as if they hadn't realised that finishing 1st was much better than 2nd and 2nd was a fair bit better than finishing 3rd given the structure of the PQFs and QFs.
I think too much is being made of the finishing positions in the round robins. Dublin and Kerry are way ahead of the rest and they managed the schedule knowing this fact.
Forget the league, provincial championships even the round robins, both knew they could do enough to qualify for the QF's when they'd peak. Mayo and Tyrone are ten points worse teams than both, I think we'll see Derry and Monaghan probably are as well. It won't make a difference they had two weeks break beforehand.
When the teams that got a rest won, it's because of the weeks rest.
When Kerry and Tyrone won All-Irelands via the back door in 08 and 09 it was because all the extra games were of benefit to them.
Textbook correlation/causation fallacy by lazy Irish sports journalists.
They're pissed because the two big games of the weekend were uncompetitive thrashings and the other two were dire contests. So clutch at straws like one week's rest.
The elephant in the room has been Dublin's funding and coaching is a different planet to most counties and has been for 15 years and not much sign of that changing. Add in the population and the fact the entire economy is based in one small county and you have an unstoppable beast that will continue to dominate for decades to come.
Croke Park and GAA pundits don't want to talk about that though. Only Ewan MacKenna has ever tackled that issue head on and people seem happy to ignore him.
GAA published its accounts for the 2022 financial year , with Dublin granted €1,086,251 in games development funding, around 19% of the total pot distributed among the 32 counties, and well ahead of the next best funded county, Meath, on €302,852.
That has been brushed under the carpet by all and sundry, and we were told it was changing. Even after 8 All Irelands Dublin get 10 -15 times the funding of most counties, not too mention their far superior commercial deals!
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 01:06:42 PM
GAA published its accounts for the 2022 financial year , with Dublin granted €1,086,251 in games development funding, around 19% of the total pot distributed among the 32 counties, and well ahead of the next best funded county, Meath, on €302,852.
That has been brushed under the carpet by all and sundry, and we were told it was changing. Even after 8 All Irelands Dublin get 10 -15 times the funding of most counties, not too mention their far superior commercial deals!
Population
Dublin 1.5M
Meath 0.2M
Quote from: JoG2 on July 05, 2023, 01:12:25 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 01:06:42 PM
GAA published its accounts for the 2022 financial year , with Dublin granted €1,086,251 in games development funding, around 19% of the total pot distributed among the 32 counties, and well ahead of the next best funded county, Meath, on €302,852.
That has been brushed under the carpet by all and sundry, and we were told it was changing. Even after 8 All Irelands Dublin get 10 -15 times the funding of most counties, not too mention their far superior commercial deals!
Population
Dublin 1.5M
Meath 0.2M
It's ridiculous to base funding on that, it should be based on clubs and club members. That money is going to a small fraction of the Dublin population, the clubs and members already there and divided more equally.
Dublin already has a distinct advantage in that the entire economy is based there also.
Not defending or supporting Dublin but Meath has about 4 times the population of Monaghan or the Ros Co Board area.
Why aren't they at the level of those 2 units at least?
What are the mechanics for counties getting this money?
Does it have to be applied for at County board level? Or can clubs apply? Or does CP just allocate money out on a county by county basis?
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
Had no dog in the fight and didn't care who won the upcoming semi finals but after watching that I hope Monaghan and Derry both win.
A podcast that would be far better without it's RTÉ GAA editor/producer who loves the sound of his own voice. Not a chance he'd be asking that question had his own Cork reached the last 4.
Back at the end of the league most of us would have picked Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Galway as our best four teams likely to get to the semis depending on the draw. Many would have given Mayo a good chance as well with Tyrone and Armagh maybe next best depending on the draws they got.
Galway were unlucky with injuries this year and getting caught with Armagh and then Mayo.
Monaghan had a very topsy turvy season losing to Derry and Donegal but beating Tyrone, Kildare and Armagh on penalties.
I think the four teams are worthy of being in the semifinals considering the draw.
As I said on another thread, Dublin and Kerry have always been the two main forces in GAA football and will continue to do so for some time.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2023, 02:04:32 PM
Not defending or supporting Dublin but Meath has about 4 times the population of Monaghan or the Ros Co Board area.
Why aren't they at the level of those 2 units at least?
Something is wrong in Meath, I think sprawl from Dublin has diluted the Meath identity. it's becoming more like a Dublin suburb every year it seems. Wicklow is similar. Meath don't have the underdog fight in them that Roscommon or Monaghan have. But they also don't have the same calibre of players for now. Longer term it will be tougher for Roscommon and Monaghan to stay at the top table with their population.
I do think with the right work going in Meath can bring them back to Division 1 standard. Getting tanked by Dublin every single year has really damaged them also. Supporters can be fickle.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 05, 2023, 02:49:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
Had no dog in the fight and didn't care who won the upcoming semi finals but after watching that I hope Monaghan and Derry both win.
A podcast that would be far better without it's RTÉ GAA editor/producer who loves the sound of his own voice. Not a chance he'd be asking that question had his own Cork reached the last 4.
I think he is usually fair in his analysis. We all want competitive and exciting matches and this years championship just has not delivered that outside the drama of penalty shoot outs.
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 05, 2023, 02:49:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:33:35 PM
The RTE podcast asked if the best teams were represented in the last 4 and they aren't. Instead there is a procession for Kerry and Dublin.
Had no dog in the fight and didn't care who won the upcoming semi finals but after watching that I hope Monaghan and Derry both win.
A podcast that would be far better without it's RTÉ GAA editor/producer who loves the sound of his own voice. Not a chance he'd be asking that question had his own Cork reached the last 4.
I think he is usually fair in his analysis. We all want competitive and exciting matches and this years championship just has not delivered that outside the drama of penalty shoot outs.
Your entitled to your opinion about him.
Group stages had plenty of competitive games as was 3 of the 4 Prem Quarter finals that was decided on fine margins. I also believe Tyrone and Mayo would have been a lot more competitive in their All-Ireland Quarter finals with extra week to prepare for them.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 05, 2023, 02:56:26 PM
Back at the end of the league most of us would have picked Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Galway as our best four teams likely to get to the semis depending on the draw. Many would have given Mayo a good chance as well with Tyrone and Armagh maybe next best depending on the draws they got.
Galway were unlucky with injuries this year and getting caught with Armagh and then Mayo.
Monaghan had a very topsy turvy season losing to Derry and Donegal but beating Tyrone, Kildare and Armagh on penalties.
I think the four teams are worthy of being in the semifinals considering the draw.
As I said on another thread, Dublin and Kerry have always been the two main forces in GAA football and will continue to do so for some time.
Kerry and the Dubs go in cycles and often they don't coincide. I think now it's the end of a Dub cycle while Kerry are mid cycle.
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 05, 2023, 02:56:26 PM
Back at the end of the league most of us would have picked Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Galway as our best four teams likely to get to the semis depending on the draw. Many would have given Mayo a good chance as well with Tyrone and Armagh maybe next best depending on the draws they got.
Galway were unlucky with injuries this year and getting caught with Armagh and then Mayo.
Monaghan had a very topsy turvy season losing to Derry and Donegal but beating Tyrone, Kildare and Armagh on penalties.
I think the four teams are worthy of being in the semifinals considering the draw.
As I said on another thread, Dublin and Kerry have always been the two main forces in GAA football and will continue to do so for some time.
Kerry and the Dubs go in cycles and often they don't coincide. I think now it's the end of a Dub cycle while Kerry are mid cycle.
We've been hearing about the end of the Dubs for many years, this is their 14th All Ireland semi final in a row. They aren't going anywhere, they will probably win the All Ireland again this year without too much fuss.
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 05, 2023, 02:56:26 PM
Back at the end of the league most of us would have picked Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Galway as our best four teams likely to get to the semis depending on the draw. Many would have given Mayo a good chance as well with Tyrone and Armagh maybe next best depending on the draws they got.
Galway were unlucky with injuries this year and getting caught with Armagh and then Mayo.
Monaghan had a very topsy turvy season losing to Derry and Donegal but beating Tyrone, Kildare and Armagh on penalties.
I think the four teams are worthy of being in the semifinals considering the draw.
As I said on another thread, Dublin and Kerry have always been the two main forces in GAA football and will continue to do so for some time.
Kerry and the Dubs go in cycles and often they don't coincide. I think now it's the end of a Dub cycle while Kerry are mid cycle.
We've been hearing about the end of the Dubs for many years, this is their 14th All Ireland semi final in a row. They aren't going anywhere, they will probably win the All Ireland again this year without too much fuss.
What is the average age of the Dubs now? Cluxton must have brought up the mean
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 04:17:15 PM
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 05, 2023, 02:56:26 PM
Back at the end of the league most of us would have picked Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Galway as our best four teams likely to get to the semis depending on the draw. Many would have given Mayo a good chance as well with Tyrone and Armagh maybe next best depending on the draws they got.
Galway were unlucky with injuries this year and getting caught with Armagh and then Mayo.
Monaghan had a very topsy turvy season losing to Derry and Donegal but beating Tyrone, Kildare and Armagh on penalties.
I think the four teams are worthy of being in the semifinals considering the draw.
As I said on another thread, Dublin and Kerry have always been the two main forces in GAA football and will continue to do so for some time.
Kerry and the Dubs go in cycles and often they don't coincide. I think now it's the end of a Dub cycle while Kerry are mid cycle.
We've been hearing about the end of the Dubs for many years, this is their 14th All Ireland semi final in a row. They aren't going anywhere, they will probably win the All Ireland again this year without too much fuss.
What is the average age of the Dubs now? Cluxton must have brought up the mean
Average age of the Dublin team that started Sunday was 29. What played a big part in Dublins senior dominance under Jim Gavin was the many U21 AI winners that filtered into already strong base.
U20 competition hasn't been as fruitful for Dublin with no AI title won and were beaten in the last three Leinster finals. Now is the time for Dublin seniors to win Sam as the future is uncertain for them.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 05, 2023, 10:07:14 AM
Quote from: Louther on July 05, 2023, 09:43:41 AM
One of the GAA's greatest strengths is hindsight.
This is it. Monday morning quarterbacking. Fickle fans praising players they were bemoaning the week before.
Your team progresses, the format works. They get eliminated, it's unfair.
A game is boring, change the rules.
Drunk fans, ban them at the gates.
Hawkeye malfunctions, get rid of it.
Can we not try to be proactive rather than reactive?
Love this post.
You have nailed the curmudgeons that profess to be GAA supporters , but are really only self serving, parochial , my county only supporters.
A Monaghan All Ireland would be magical.
i say most neutrals want derry or monaghan to win all ireland as kerry and dublin have won too many and it gets a bit boring seeing same teams lift trophy.
Quote from: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 07:36:42 PM
i say most neutrals want derry or monaghan to win all ireland as kerry and dublin have won too many and it gets a bit boring seeing same teams lift trophy.
Ahh now hold on.....
:)
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 05, 2023, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 07:36:42 PM
i say most neutrals want derry or monaghan to win all ireland as kerry and dublin have won too many and it gets a bit boring seeing same teams lift trophy.
Ahh now hold on.....
l :)
Quote from: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 07:36:42 PM
i say most neutrals want derry or monaghan to win all ireland as kerry and dublin have won too many and it gets a bit boring seeing same teams lift trophy.
I would usually agree but Kerry won their first Sam since 2014 last year. So the Sams haven't been fluirseach.
I would prefer one of the Ulster teams to win. Derry have 1 and Monaghan have 0.
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 01:06:42 PM
GAA published its accounts for the 2022 financial year , with Dublin granted €1,086,251 in games development funding, around 19% of the total pot distributed among the 32 counties, and well ahead of the next best funded county, Meath, on €302,852.
That has been brushed under the carpet by all and sundry, and we were told it was changing. Even after 8 All Irelands Dublin get 10 -15 times the funding of most counties, not too mention their far superior commercial deals!
So is the argument that by providing funding for hurling and football coaches in primary schools, which has undoubtedly led to an explosion of interest in Gaelic games, particularly amongst females and making it the first choice sport for many parents (typically from non-traditional gaa backgrounds), the gaa has created the Dublin mens senior football behemoth which is practically unbeatable?
If that is the argument can I ask is it not part of the association's mission to promote Gaelic games and are you and other like minded people suggesting that funding should be cut to ensure that the potential playing pool of the Dublin senior football team is reduced, thereby giving other counties a chance?
Given a large portion of those funds are directed at hurling, would Dublin now be in the Christy Ring but for this funding?
The funding makes a difference in that it massively promotes gaa and generates interest at the 4 - 7yo age groups (in my experience GPO's don't have any involvement with the club teams beyond the nursery/academy), so if people think that promoting Gaelic games to cohorts of the population who wouldn't traditionally play them is a negative, I'd question their understanding of the association and its aims.
Quote from: full moon on July 05, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2023, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 05, 2023, 02:56:26 PM
Back at the end of the league most of us would have picked Kerry, Dublin, Derry and Galway as our best four teams likely to get to the semis depending on the draw. Many would have given Mayo a good chance as well with Tyrone and Armagh maybe next best depending on the draws they got.
Galway were unlucky with injuries this year and getting caught with Armagh and then Mayo.
Monaghan had a very topsy turvy season losing to Derry and Donegal but beating Tyrone, Kildare and Armagh on penalties.
I think the four teams are worthy of being in the semifinals considering the draw.
As I said on another thread, Dublin and Kerry have always been the two main forces in GAA football and will continue to do so for some time.
Kerry and the Dubs go in cycles and often they don't coincide. I think now it's the end of a Dub cycle while Kerry are mid cycle.
We've been hearing about the end of the Dubs for many years, this is their 14th All Ireland semi final in a row. They aren't going anywhere, they will probably win the All Ireland again this year without too much fuss.
Say it ain't so!
Monaghan doesn't usually get much attention but this is a great image from the Irish Times
(https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/kOaY1yaNopTX_sDFlxVWmvAXFAY=/1600x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/irishtimes/73FDZPOLLAWDEYG74JWSN7O6K4.jpg)
JAZZ HANDS!!!!! ;D
Ulster championship still good enough to keep.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 07, 2023, 06:41:48 PM
Ulster championship still good enough to keep.
Absolutely. (Just no more feckin penalties!)