Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

trailer

Quote from: westbound on June 25, 2018, 04:36:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2018, 04:22:53 PM
Have 3 tiers as I've said.

would Kerry Cork not be in the same tier?

My argument is we should be trying to improve the counties who are falling behind. Not putting a system in place where the likely outcome is that the gap between top and bottom will bigger.

How do you improve Leitrim or Fermanagh? Honest question. Coaches? Transfer players? Money?

seafoid

Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2018, 04:46:31 PM
1 -How do you improve "the counties who are falling behind"?

2 -Do you start with Cork who won 10 Munster U21s in the last 15 years and can't get a decent Senior team out of it
Or do you start with Leitrim who have 30,000 people
Or do you start with Fermanagh, Carlow , Longford who have done reasonably well recently?
Or do you try and make football better in the Hurling Counties
I don't think the hurling counties are the issue. Limerick, Waterford, Wexford don't really care
Galway and Cork are dual and have always had ups and downs
Tipp know thy have work to do

The system doesn't work for Laois and Clare
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

sligoman2

http://www.the42.ie/all-ireland-football-two-tier-championship-john-horan-4242334-Sep2018/

Looks like this idea might be making a comeback.  If they don't change the rules to increase the enjoyment factor for players and spectators it won't make a difference as people won't go to watch the crap that football has become especially if it's for a second tier competition.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

Rossfan

Few neutrals go to games any more anyways so it will only be followers of the 2 Counties playing  anyway.
Putting a tiered 2 Final along with the Senior Final will mean that only a small number of people from the 2 Counties will be able to attend.
Not much fun for Leitrim or Carlow etc - Wonderful to get to the All Ireland Final but only 2,500 ofor them can see it.
For utm_source to have any hope as a stand alone competition it will need to be officially called "All Ireland Senior B or 2 Football Championship" and be held early enough to allow the winners into the last 12 of the main Championship.
Calling it officially the Dermot Earley/Páidi  O Sé or whoever Cup will nearly guarantee it will be a flop.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

johnnycool

Quote from: Rossfan on September 19, 2018, 12:58:45 PM
Few neutrals go to games any more anyways so it will only be followers of the 2 Counties playing  anyway.
Putting a tiered 2 Final along with the Senior Final will mean that only a small number of people from the 2 Counties will be able to attend.
Not much fun for Leitrim or Carlow etc - Wonderful to get to the All Ireland Final but only 2,500 ofor them can see it.
For utm_source to have any hope as a stand alone competition it will need to be officially called "All Ireland Senior B or 2 Football Championship" and be held early enough to allow the winners into the last 12 of the main Championship.
Calling it officially the Dermot Earley/Páidi  O Sé or whoever Cup will nearly guarantee it will be a flop.

Tiering works for Camogie and ladies football as the finals are all played on the same showcase day.

I don't think that may be workable for hurling or Football AI finals, but I do think a second tier final could be before an AI semi-final.

Those that removed the CR and Nicy Rackard finals from the AI semi-final spots did hurling in weaker counties a huge disservice and should be ashamed of themselves. Hurling men my arse.

If the same was allowed to happen in a tiered football championship then Horan and Co need their holes booted the length and breadth of the country.


snoopdog

Down are div 3 next year. So on that basis we would be in a 2nd tier comp. Personally id rather not compete at all. The GAA will run this like the dead rubber 2nd 3rd and 4th string hurling comps that no one attends.

Rossfan

Nobody ever attended hurling games played by the Louths,  Longfords or Cavans of this world.
I recall a Ros V London Hurling Championship game which took place after we played Cork in football back in 2003.
69 spectators stayed back to watch it.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Blowitupref

Quote from: snoopdog on September 19, 2018, 02:59:44 PM
Down are div 3 next year. So on that basis we would be in a 2nd tier comp. Personally id rather not compete at all. The GAA will run this like the dead rubber 2nd 3rd and 4th string hurling comps that no one attends.
2013 Monaghan were in Div 3 and this summer they managed to reached the last 4 and were inches away from reaching the AI final. Would they have made that type of progress if they played in a 2nd tier comp? i highly doubt it.

Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Rossfan

They won Ulster in 2013 didn't they so they'd have been in Tier 1 anyway.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

APM

How does the second tier resolve the shite that is the Leinster Championship?

The second-tier will just do away with mismatches in the qualifiers which aren't televised.  It doesn't do away with the televised mismatches in Leinster. 

Solution.  No Second Tier - stop televising so many games in the Leinster Championship.  And I'm not really joking.

seafoid

Football is a total mess. It needs fundamental reform with money the focus.
A second tier may or may not work. It depends on whether or not the GAA is arsed. I think the Feng shui in Croke Park is dreadful.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

twohands!!!

In the last 9 years teams that played Division 4 have played 182 championship games.

They have won just 2 games against Division 1 opposition and 6 games against Division 2 opposition.

A second tier championship won't magically solve the problems of these lowest tier counties, but it could at least lead to a situation where they get an increased number of competitive games.

This year the margins in the 16 games that Division 4 teams lost were (in points) 27, 23, 18, 18, 14, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 10, 8, 7, 5

10 out of these 16 games were home games for the Division 4 teams - the rule about Division 3 and Division 4 teams getting home advantage in the qualifiers, didn't seem to have much of an affect in helping with the scoreline the margins in these 10 games were 27, 23, 18, 14, 14, 13, 10, 10, 5

Maybe teams and players in Division 4 are grand and content with the current situation but the current situation seems a long way from ideal to my mind.






High Fielder

Flogging a dead horse. County boundaries are not, and never have been, an appropriate way of sectioning players into teams. The County system is used in England for Cricket, but movement is allowed in and out of the county so that the County can be competitive. Not here. You're stuck with your population and player base and that closed door policy will ensure that the weak can never prosper. Basically, the county system is a complete sham, but ironically enough, the GAA use it as their USP.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

RadioGAAGAA

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