Sam Maguire Group 4 - Derry, Clare, Monaghan, Donegal

[Mario]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

[Captain Obvious]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

To be fair if done right every team woud be getting at least two weeks between every game.

[lenny]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

To be fair if done right every team woud be getting at least two weeks between every game.

If done right every team would get one weeks rest and that would be fair. If there was 2 weeks rest between all games then the club season would end up very short.

[yellowcard]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

The loss of Gallagher is massive for Derry. The media won't say it too loud as he is now deemed persona non grata but his imprint was all over that team as he was the coach, manager, tactician and motivator all in one. Add in the terms of his departure with the claims hanging over him with players and their family reading the media stories about it ever since then and it can't be easy for the Derry players.

That is a large part of why I think we will continue to see such a drop off in their performance levels. I don't think they were ever going to win an All Ireland anyway but now I'd be surprised if they get past the quarter finals.

As for Corey complaining about the 2 week gap, well some of these county managers just need a chip on their shoulder about something. These are highly conditioned athletes so I don't see how they need more than a week to recover between matches. The same managers would likely be running weekend training camps or playing full 70 minute training matches if they didn't have a match anyway. Too few games and they are complaining and too many games and they are complaining also.     

[Blowitupref]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

The loss of Gallagher is massive for Derry. The media won't say it too loud as he is now deemed persona non grata but his imprint was all over that team as he was the coach, manager, tactician and motivator all in one. Add in the terms of his departure with the claims hanging over him with players and their family reading the media stories about it ever since then and it can't be easy for the Derry players.

That is a large part of why I think we will continue to see such a drop off in their performance levels. I don't think they were ever going to win an All Ireland anyway but now I'd be surprised if they get past the quarter finals.

As for Corey complaining about the 2 week gap, well some of these county managers just need a chip on their shoulder about something. These are highly conditioned athletes so I don't see how they need more than a week to recover between matches. The same managers would likely be running weekend training camps or playing full 70 minute training matches if they didn't have a match anyway. Too few games and they are complaining and too many games and they are complaining also.   

High intensity championship matches takes a lot out of teams, can totally understand Corey's complaint now going up against team with a two week break.

Will be interesting to see how Monaghan, Louth, Armagh, Cork, Dublin, Roscommon, Westmeath and Derry will fare this weekend and also have to take into account that's its forecast to be very warm this weekend so any sore and tired limbs will be tested.

[J70]

Only returnee for Donegal for this game is Stephen McMenamin. Mogan is now gone for the season along with Langan and the other lads who've been out all year.

Part of the reason we beat Clare was the kick out performance of Patton. Clare couldn't cope in the second half between the kick outs and Jason McGee coming on (hope he's fit to start!). But Derry shut Patton down completely last year, and closed that two point gap at the end of normal time by pressing the short kick out (Armagh took note and did the same a few weeks later).

We're also relying on Thompson and Gallen and the like to shoot the lights out again. I don't see it happening. And we've no plan B to come off the bench.

Derry by eight.

[marty34]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

The loss of Gallagher is massive for Derry. The media won't say it too loud as he is now deemed persona non grata but his imprint was all over that team as he was the coach, manager, tactician and motivator all in one. Add in the terms of his departure with the claims hanging over him with players and their family reading the media stories about it ever since then and it can't be easy for the Derry players.

That is a large part of why I think we will continue to see such a drop off in their performance levels. I don't think they were ever going to win an All Ireland anyway but now I'd be surprised if they get past the quarter finals.

As for Corey complaining about the 2 week gap, well some of these county managers just need a chip on their shoulder about something. These are highly conditioned athletes so I don't see how they need more than a week to recover between matches. The same managers would likely be running weekend training camps or playing full 70 minute training matches if they didn't have a match anyway. Too few games and they are complaining and too many games and they are complaining also.   

Yeah, week on week games are the way to go. Cuts down on training:game ratio.  That's good in my opinion.

I'd like to think players feel the same also. Bit of recovery the first evening, light session and tactical the next night.

Players want games.

[seafoid]

I think you are seeing a drop off in Derry due to the absence of Gallagher. Both Donegal and Derry now have caretaker managers and the uncertainty can't be good for either team. That game will not be one for the purist and I'd predict a horrible spectacle and the fact that it is in Ballybofey there won't be much in it. If Derry get out with any sort of victory they would sign up for that now.

Yeah that's my take too.
Earlier in the year I would have had us in with a real chance of an AI. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we finished 3rd in the group and got knocked out in the QF.
The loss of Gallagher is huge for this team in terms of the intensity he drew out of the players. That has definitely been missing the last 2 games.

Gallagher prepared the team for the Armagh - i appreciate he wasn't at the game but it was always going to be a tight game. If Brendan Rogers had of fisted the point over the bar near the end we'd probably have won by 3 points and everyone would say it was a great performance. Levels definitely dipped for the Monaghan game, who were excellent on the day, had 4 weeks to prepare and played us in their last game. We would have found that game tough under RG too. Every provincial finalist underperformed in the 1st round of group games.

I'm still expecting us to beat Donegal but probably not as hopeful of a long run in the AI as i was pre RG scandal but we'll see. The last day out, of our key players only McGuigan has performed near the level we have become accustomed to so I am still expecting an improvement in the next 2 group games.

I see Vinney Corey isn't happy with the scheduling as it gives Clare an advantage this week (2 week rest). He wasn't too bothered about it last week.

The loss of Gallagher is massive for Derry. The media won't say it too loud as he is now deemed persona non grata but his imprint was all over that team as he was the coach, manager, tactician and motivator all in one. Add in the terms of his departure with the claims hanging over him with players and their family reading the media stories about it ever since then and it can't be easy for the Derry players.

That is a large part of why I think we will continue to see such a drop off in their performance levels. I don't think they were ever going to win an All Ireland anyway but now I'd be surprised if they get past the quarter finals.

As for Corey complaining about the 2 week gap, well some of these county managers just need a chip on their shoulder about something. These are highly conditioned athletes so I don't see how they need more than a week to recover between matches. The same managers would likely be running weekend training camps or playing full 70 minute training matches if they didn't have a match anyway. Too few games and they are complaining and too many games and they are complaining also.   

Yeah, week on week games are the way to go. Cuts down on training:game ratio.  That's good in my opinion.

I'd like to think players feel the same also. Bit of recovery the first evening, light session and tactical the next night.

Players want games.

Nobody wants to be injured but injuries happen and often to key players. The weekly game proposal would punish lighter panels. Roscommon can't have as much panel depth as Galway, for example.

[Estimator]

Derry name the same team that started against Monaghan.
Only change is on the bench: N O'Donnell was a late replacement for S Downey last week, but that has been reversed this week.
Would have liked to see Murray start v Donegal. From his v limited game time in the C'ship, he has actually scored a couple of points from play, which can't be said about some of the regular forwards.

[tbrick18]

Derry name the same team that started against Monaghan.
Only change is on the bench: N O'Donnell was a late replacement for S Downey last week, but that has been reversed this week.
Would have liked to see Murray start v Donegal. From his v limited game time in the C'ship, he has actually scored a couple of points from play, which can't be said about some of the regular forwards.

Yeah Derry forwards really need to step up a bit more.
They seem to be playing with a lack of confidence, perhaps RG was able to bring the best out of them.

I'm not sure about starting Murray/McFaul. Murray in particular has been very effective off the bench and if we start him, we lose that impact capability.
McFaul, was ok against Monaghan. scored a great point early in the game and then, like most others, was largely anonymous for the rest of the game.  He might be more effective off the bench too.

I'm going to give a tentative nod to Derry here as McGuigan is in the form of his life and I hope we can't play as badly as we did against Monaghan.
Derry by 4 or 5.

[J70]

McBrearty back on the bench?

I'm doubtful...

Assuming he's fit, I'd expect Stephen McMenamin to start.

[God14]

Thats a decent looking Donegal line up
All of a sudden this game isnt the mismatch it was perceived to be.

[JoG2]

Thats a decent looking Donegal line up
All of a sudden this game isnt the mismatch it was perceived to be.

Compared to Donegal teams of the last 10 years, its not a great Donegal team on paper. This game isn't a mismatch due to Derry's current form.

[God14]

Thats a decent looking Donegal line up
All of a sudden this game isnt the mismatch it was perceived to be.

Compared to Donegal teams of the last 10 years, its not a great Donegal team on paper. This game isn't a mismatch due to Derry's current form.

There's plenty of height in the middle for Patton to aim his kick outs at
There would appear to be a bit more pace & mobility, than they had in last years Ulster final too
They could actually match up quite well for Derry. Looking forward to this one.

[Wildweasel74]

Donegal is still the team that folded to a poor Down team over a month ago, win to Clare or not. Derry to win this but what's the point of having a panel when you play the, same team every game, even though I think 2/3 lads should be Dropped. You can't won't win anything without 3/4 good scoring forwards whick Kerry, Galway, and Dublin have. We good enough everywhere in the team