2023 National Football League Division 4

Started by Junior Ex Laoistalk, November 10, 2022, 08:07:42 PM

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Laoiseabu

Quote from: Giovanni on March 31, 2023, 07:45:31 AM
I don't want to dismiss the idea that our structures and player development systems are in chaos. I honestly don't know enough about that and the evidence suggests that something is wrong structurally. But we're not talking about getting on the Kildare team (although I think several of them would). We're talking about doing better than Leitrim and Wicklow. This doesn't require a team of David Cliffords. It just requires good preparation, organisation and motivation. Obviously, as you move higher in the Divisions something more is needed but really in Division 4, it's not.

Do you still think several of our lads would get on the Kildare team ? In my opinion not one of our lads would be let carry in the water for a full strength Kildare . The sooner we pull our heads out of our own arses the better . What went on between Laois and Dublin last weekend was nothing short of DISGRACEFUL. That same Dublin team today SHOULD of been beaten by Kildare in croke park only for some bad decision making . I knew we were bad but to be honest we are A LOT worse than I actually thought . SERIOUS SERIOUS changes are needed in this county just to keep our names on the map now the way it's gone .

Joeythelips

Quote from: High Fielder on March 31, 2023, 08:36:00 AM
The players themselves need to take ownership.  If they're as good as you think they are, they should go out and show it. Are they putting their shoulders to the wheel individually? Remember a lot of them have walked away and come back again. That hardly sings dedication. And then you have these lads coming in for a fortnight and walking away. How disruptive is that? A lot of harm done before Billy or any other coach could ever have an influence. As well as everything else, there's a culture and attitude problem in Laois

I get that but all you do is look at what a good coach brings, look at Laois in 2002 v 2003. Colm Browne I believe was the manager in 2003, hardly a terrible manager but they lost to Offaly in Leinster championship and got a hiding off Meath in the qualifiers. Micko came in and the same group won a Leinster title straight away. Now there are a few things here, Micko was a huge name so all of a sudden you had everyone in the country wanting to get on the panel, obviously he was no idiot and knew Laois had a strong pool of players after winning minor titles.

I know this is not the case not the case now but the point is to highlight the difference the right man in charge can make, a better example would be the impact Sugrue had after Lillis and Creedon terms. Players defiantly buy into people in charge who really know what their are doing.

Im not blaming the current management team for all Laois ills, its not their fault the underage teams have not been doing well for example, but I simply do not think they are up to the task. In my opinion this current group of players under a good management team would at least be mid Div 3 and give the Tailteann Cup a decent rattle, not earth shattering targets granted but its better than whats happening currently.

Chrimtain

It's not that long ago that Louth were a division 4 team. They had the foresight to ask Mickey Harte to coach their senior football team and now they have gained promotion and reached a Leinster final. That's what I call an inspired and inspiring appointment.



High Fielder

In fairness,  they have some very good players. It was the right time for them to get a quality coach to glue it together. A coach is not a magician. I don't believe for a minute there's a coach out there that would get us much further than Division 3; at best

Joeythelips

Quote from: High Fielder on May 02, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
In fairness,  they have some very good players. It was the right time for them to get a quality coach to glue it together. A coach is not a magician. I don't believe for a minute there's a coach out there that would get us much further than Division 3; at best

So what your saying is if we had a good management set up the current group of players could get to Div 3, i.e we are underachieving under Sheehan. I fully agree.

Spiritof86

Division 3/4 is our level regardless of the manager in charge . We don't have players in the county who can consistently compete at a higher level . The lads who represent Laois give absolutely everything to the cause . Unfortunately you need more attributes such as physique which we lack in all grades as was evident  this year with the minors and u20 .

High Fielder

Quote from: Joeythelips on May 02, 2023, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 02, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
In fairness,  they have some very good players. It was the right time for them to get a quality coach to glue it together. A coach is not a magician. I don't believe for a minute there's a coach out there that would get us much further than Division 3; at best

So what your saying is if we had a good management set up the current group of players could get to Div 3, i.e we are underachieving under Sheehan. I fully agree.

I said at best, but happy to concede to your obvious dislike of Sheehan

High Fielder

Quote from: Spiritof86 on May 02, 2023, 03:07:36 PM
Division 3/4 is our level regardless of the manager in charge . We don't have players in the county who can consistently compete at a higher level . The lads who represent Laois give absolutely everything to the cause . Unfortunately you need more attributes such as physique which we lack in all grades as was evident  this year with the minors and u20 .

100%. We are a long way off

Joeythelips

Quote from: High Fielder on May 02, 2023, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on May 02, 2023, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 02, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
In fairness,  they have some very good players. It was the right time for them to get a quality coach to glue it together. A coach is not a magician. I don't believe for a minute there's a coach out there that would get us much further than Division 3; at best

So what your saying is if we had a good management set up the current group of players could get to Div 3, i.e we are underachieving under Sheehan. I fully agree.

I said at best, but happy to concede to your obvious dislike of Sheehan

I neither like or dislike the man, do not know him and have nothing against him. I am just stating my opinion that I don't not believe on the evidence I have seen that he is up to the task of improving the Laois team. I get the current crop of players may not be world beaters but feel with a better coach in place they would be getting the best out of them. I thought the same under previous management such as Mick Lillis for example, people who it was clear were no up to the task and seemed out of their depth.

Laois Rising

Last year Laois had a glorious opportunity to defeat Westmeath in the Tailteann Cup-a man up and a goal up and conspired to blow it. Westmeath went on the win the competition. I don't think Cavan are going to get caught twice after last year but hopefully Laois can win through to perhaps a semi-final with the luck of the draw and build up the experience of some of the younger players who maybe have potential to kick on over the next few years. This year it is important to put the building blocks in place for a better 2024 where Laois might gain promotion to Division 3 of the league and possibly give the Tailteann Cup a right rattle.

High Fielder

Quote from: Joeythelips on May 03, 2023, 10:46:20 AM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 02, 2023, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on May 02, 2023, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on May 02, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
In fairness,  they have some very good players. It was the right time for them to get a quality coach to glue it together. A coach is not a magician. I don't believe for a minute there's a coach out there that would get us much further than Division 3; at best

So what your saying is if we had a good management set up the current group of players could get to Div 3, i.e we are underachieving under Sheehan. I fully agree.

I said at best, but happy to concede to your obvious dislike of Sheehan

I neither like or dislike the man, do not know him and have nothing against him. I am just stating my opinion that I don't not believe on the evidence I have seen that he is up to the task of improving the Laois team. I get the current crop of players may not be world beaters but feel with a better coach in place they would be getting the best out of them. I thought the same under previous management such as Mick Lillis for example, people who it was clear were no up to the task and seemed out of their depth.

It's Catch 22 though isn't it? We struggled to get a coach last time and we'll struggle the next time because we're in decline. We're relying on this bunch or the next to rise up and get us out of this mess. Under 21s, Minors, anything.  Truth is, the whole shagging lot appears desperate at the moment. Every team we send out is getting a walloping. We're in particular trouble physically and defensively. These appear to be legacy issues that have never been properly addressed

Pugwash

Could Laois potentially look at putting together u12/u13 development squads? Am I right in saying that u14s is the youngest age group that we have at the moment?

The younger you can catch these players the better, because you would hope by the time they mature, all of what they've learned will just become second nature to them. I.E. drilling home the basic fundamentals, the importance of nutrition, S&C training, exposing players to what it's like to be in an elite environment etc.

Inviting in local club coaches of the players involved into training to show them how a session is properly structured, that will ultimately allow it to flow properly. Or even spread training around the county regularly, which will allow "Laois development squads to come to them" per say.

Our senior team cannot go any lower than when we're at the moment, so instead of being short sighted and pluck for a big name on huge wages invest that money into better coaching structures at underage level.

I completely get the reasoning behind hiring a Mickey Harte type, because now Louth will ride the crest of a wave for a few years with them getting into a Leinster Final. "But" Louth haven't won a Leinster minor title since 1953 or an under 20 title since 1981 so you would wonder how long they will sustain the consistency they've shown this year and last year per say?

When Laois were doing really well at underage level in the mid to late 90s and into the 00s, it was no fluke that we were able to sustain a competitive senior team for the best part of a decade.

It really isn't rocket science, plough money into developing our younger players and into coaching structures and watch it bear fruit. Have a target that by 2034 that we will have our senior side in Division 1/2 with our underage sides competing regularly in Leinster Finals and beyond.

Joeythelips

Quote from: Pugwash on May 03, 2023, 02:01:40 PM
Could Laois potentially look at putting together u12/u13 development squads? Am I right in saying that u14s is the youngest age group that we have at the moment?

The younger you can catch these players the better, because you would hope by the time they mature, all of what they've learned will just become second nature to them. I.E. drilling home the basic fundamentals, the importance of nutrition, S&C training, exposing players to what it's like to be in an elite environment etc.

Inviting in local club coaches of the players involved into training to show them how a session is properly structured, that will ultimately allow it to flow properly. Or even spread training around the county regularly, which will allow "Laois development squads to come to them" per say.

Our senior team cannot go any lower than when we're at the moment, so instead of being short sighted and pluck for a big name on huge wages invest that money into better coaching structures at underage level.

I completely get the reasoning behind hiring a Mickey Harte type, because now Louth will ride the crest of a wave for a few years with them getting into a Leinster Final. "But" Louth haven't won a Leinster minor title since 1953 or an under 20 title since 1981 so you would wonder how long they will sustain the consistency they've shown this year and last year per say?

When Laois were doing really well at underage level in the mid to late 90s and into the 00s, it was no fluke that we were able to sustain a competitive senior team for the best part of a decade.

It really isn't rocket science, plough money into developing our younger players and into coaching structures and watch it bear fruit. Have a target that by 2034 that we will have our senior side in Division 1/2 with our underage sides competing regularly in Leinster Finals and beyond.

AS High Fielder said its a bit of a catch 22 situation. Im not talking though about going and getting some big name just yet. I am talking about a John Sugrue type, someone who can get the best out of the players at his disposal. Granted people like that do not grown on trees but someone like that I believe could get the current Laois team to Div 3 and give the Taitleann cup a real go. Hardly earth shattering targets. I do remember seeing underage players under Sean Dempsey and they were very well trained and looked after but Laois did also have a good senior team that players looked up to and aspired to be part of. So both aspects need looking at. Schools are also vital, when laois were winning minor titles, the likes of Knockbeg, Portlaoise and Ballyfin were having lots of success with their school teams.


Smellyball

Schools are also vital, when laois were winning minor titles, the likes of Knockbeg, Portlaoise and Ballyfin were having lots of success with their school teams.
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The most sensible comment I've seen on this site in a while.
All this talk of S&C for 12 or 13 Yr olds is a load of nonsense.
Kids that young don't need any of that sort of sh!t, they need to enjoy the game first and foremost. Trying to turn them semi pro before they have hair on their balls will turn them off the game.

Laois has 40 odd clubs, you're not goin to get great coaches into all those clubs. Get them into 5 or 6 schools instead.