New Catholic Church/ DUP coalition! Is this they way forward?

[Hardy]

Unfortuantely atheists who act morally will be damned.

As an atheist i find that a bit of an empty threat

I was going to say it's funny to see a grown adult threatening other grown adults with the bogeyman, but that's much more succinct.

Most of the Bible is clear and unambiguous.

  Many of Daniel O'Donnell's songs are in tune.

[T Fearon]

Actually it has been frowned upon for centuries,but that makes adultery no less a sin

[Hardy]

Look things have moved on,and stoning adulterers is now frowned upon.What hasn't and won't change however is the fact that adultery is a sin,and this is abundantly clear in the Bible

It's like a compilation of out-takes from Monty Python. Bludgeoning people to death with stones is "now" (not until now, mind) "frowned upon". But sticking your mickey where it doesn't belong will get you eternity in the furnace.

[Hardy]

Oops - deleted and re-posted. See Tony's most recent post as a reply to mine that follows it.

[LCohen]

The core message of belief,repentance and avoidance of sin is clear and unambiguous,family trees are irrelevant

Unimportant ehh? I thought Jesus's ancestory was pretty key to christianity?

And the link to David was a key part of fulfilling the old testament prophecy. Are you saying that prophecy fulfillment is unimportanat or that it is part of catholic teaching and that it is catholic techings that are now unimportant?

On the proveable facts the bible is neither clear nor unambiguous. If the basic facts cannot be got correct how are we to know that the jesus quotes are correct? how are we to know that the lesson-giving parables were ever told? were correctly recorded at origin? or have been faithfully translated through the languages?

There is a moral tale in the bible that suggests that if someone tries to sodomise your male house guest you should hand over your daughter for the same treatment in place of the guest. I can see how you can see that as unambiguous but if you believe it to be a clear moral lesson then I suggest that you very urgently need to make yourself known to the mental health authorities.

[Oraisteach]

Lovely Doublethink, Tony, reminiscent of Evil Genius.  You acknowledge that times change as do cultural norms.  Slavery was once acceptable, but no civilized society endorses it today.  The same will be true of discrimination against homosexuals, and you and your antediluvian views will be on the wrong side of history and morality.  Even the Church adjusted its thinking on Galileo, albeit centuries too late.  Maybe you will admit you're wrong, but pages of text on this site suggest not.

Don't know if Poyntspass has any little Fearons, but hypothetically, what would you do if one of them were gay and wanted a same-sex spouse.  Of course, you'd love them, but would you attend their wedding, or would you ostracize them?  Even Conservative Dick Cheney changed his tune when he discovered one of his children was gay.

Gays are God's creation as much as you are.  They don't choose to be gay, but they are, and they are deserving of love and empathy, spared from discrimination and enmity.  Pope Francis thinks so, but you seem to know better than he.  Smacks a little of Pride, one of the 7 Deadly Sins.

[T Fearon]

Paedophiles are also God's creation,but they are still repugnant,as are murderers etc.

Religion is largely down to faith.As I said God's existence can not be proved or disproved.I was interested to learn that Beulah Printing will not commercially endorse binge drinking (eg Stag weekends) or anything else the Company's proprietors deem to be contrary to their beliefs.

This is no crusade against gay people,it is simply a matter of business owners trying to live out their faith in all aspects of their life.This is admirable in this day and age,and they should be commended not condemned.

[T Fearon]

One of the owners of the printing firm in Drogheda took the time and trouble to visit the hairdresser in his premises to explain clearly why he was unable to fulfil his order (to print wedding invitations to a gay marriage) and he listed other orders in the past he was unable to fulfil due to his religious beliefs.He then offered a handshake to the hairdresser who declined it.

Now in all objectivity who was the reasonable and non bigoted person here?

[Bensars]

One of the owners of the printing firm in Drogheda took the time and trouble to visit the hairdresser in his premises to explain clearly why he was unable to fulfil his order (to print wedding invitations to a gay marriage) and he listed other orders in the past he was unable to fulfil due to his religious beliefs.He then offered a handshake to the hairdresser who declined it.

Now in all objectivity who was the reasonable and non bigoted person here?

However in the 4 years previous he and his Christian business partner were happy to take the same individuals money.

I heard the guy interviewed. The same owner was quite happy to go through different samples of envelopes, paper etc. the week previous.

It would appear that this was a sudden conscience clause

Also unlike the Ashers case, this was to a civil ceremony which is legal under Irish law. Whilst the Ashers case fell within a somewhat grey area, the Louth case is clear cut

[T Fearon]

You prove the point.If the printer was biased against homosexuals he wouldn't have done business with them at all.

There is no case to answer here.There was no discrimination against the customer on the basis of his sexuality,the business will not produce gay marriage invites for any prospective client,homosexual or heterosexual.

[Hardy]

One of the owners of the printing firm in Drogheda took the time and trouble to visit the hairdresser in his premises to explain clearly why he was unable to fulfil his order (to print wedding invitations to a gay marriage) and he listed other orders in the past he was unable to fulfil due to his religious beliefs.He then offered a handshake to the hairdresser who declined it.

Now in all objectivity who was the reasonable and non bigoted person here?

Somebody walks into your place and informs you that, in his opinion, you are an unworthy person, your lifestyle is repugnant to him and he considers himself morally superior to you and then he wants to shake hands?

[Bensars]

You prove the point.If the printer was biased against homosexuals he wouldn't have done business with them at all.

There is no case to answer here.There was no discrimination against the customer on the basis of his sexuality,the business will not produce gay marriage invites for any prospective client,homosexual or heterosexual.

The customer in this case was told by the printer, that they were against homosexuality and gay marriage.

[T Fearon]

Yes but not  against the customer himself

[Hardy]

Yes but not  against the customer himself

I don't disrespect you as a person - I disrespect you as an Armagh man?

[T Fearon]

No.Disagreement with what you are about to do (eg gay marriage) is not disrespectful it is simply abiding by your religious beliefs,which are also legal.