New Catholic Church/ DUP coalition! Is this they way forward?

[easytiger95]

Jesus repeatedly advises that sin must be avoided and that repentance is needed.

Indeed, but you miss his point spectacularly. He's talking about your own sin, not your perception of somebody else's. Not only are you not to concern yourself with the perceived sins of others, you are specifically warned that to do so is possibly the worst sin. The whole point, he says, is faith, hope and charity - "and the greatest of these is charity". He takes great pains to explain what is required under the heading of charity. You must not assume the actions of others to be sinful. You must think the best of people, not the worst. You must not judge or assume yourself to be the arbiter of morality for anybody else. You must only worry about your own morality.

In other words, he went out of his way to condemn people like you. Have you never heard of the Pharisee and the Publican? I have to warn you that if you're basing your whole life ethic and moral foundation on being some sort of teacher's pet or snitch for Jesus, you're going to get an awful gunk when you show up at them gates.

Quality stuff hardy

[imtommygunn]

LCohen,I would love actually not to believe and to have proof God doesn't exist.But there's something nagging at me saying you pay the price for not doing right.Also the story of the resurrection has survived for over 2000 years.

In any event if it's all false I've lost nothing,I have a good life,good health and count my blessings every day.

You're not really a man of faith. You're just hedging your bets. Why would anyone who believed in god love to not believe in god?

[T Fearon]

It's a core reason to believe all the same.I'm just saying I would love to have absolute certainty of God's existence or mon existence.

[Hardy]

It's a core reason to believe all the same.I'm just saying I would love to have absolute certainty of God's existence or mon existence.

We've been through this before with you. You're simply applying Pascal's wager. You don't love your god. You fear him.

[johnneycool]

Jesus repeatedly advises that sin must be avoided and that repentance is needed.

Indeed, but you miss his point spectacularly. He's talking about your own sin, not your perception of somebody else's. Not only are you not to concern yourself with the perceived sins of others, you are specifically warned that to do so is possibly the worst sin. The whole point, he says, is faith, hope and charity - "and the greatest of these is charity". He takes great pains to explain what is required under the heading of charity. You must not assume the actions of others to be sinful. You must think the best of people, not the worst. You must not judge or assume yourself to be the arbiter of morality for anybody else. You must only worry about your own morality.

In other words, he went out of his way to condemn people like you. Have you never heard of the Pharisee and the Publican? I have to warn you that if you're basing your whole life ethic and moral foundation on being some sort of teacher's pet or snitch for Jesus, you're going to get an awful gunk when you show up at them gates.

Your first paragraph is excellent and sums up a lot of what is wrong with a lot of self perceived christians. I have a lot of respect for a lot of peoples faith though wouldn't be overly religious myself. The attitude however of the judgemental, e.g. the person who started up this thread, stinks. That is not an attack on christianity. It is what is wrong with *some* christians.

I struggle a lot with some of the going's on on the board. I find myself engaging on threads where I know I shouldn't where I know I will be beat into submission or silence. But i do anyway. I don't try to be judgmental but try to give a different side to the conversation other than the usual spin that God is made up, anyone who believes in Him is an idiot..... That's hard to read/listen to over and over again without speaking up...

I'd not prescribe to that notion, but you have a point. I have no problem whatsoever in someone believing in God and having faith and living their life accordingly with zero impact to those who chose to life their life differently.

Tony on the other hand reminds me of a lot of 'devout' Christians who are only interested in how they are perceived, front of the church, bible in hand in solemn prayer, but only use it as a way to look down their noses at the rest of us mere mortals.
They are more interested in the sins of others than any spiritual enlightenment and more often than not miss the message being delivered to them every Saturday/Sunday as they believe its not aimed at them, but the 'sinners' who aren't as 'devout' as them.

[imtommygunn]

Jesus repeatedly advises that sin must be avoided and that repentance is needed.

Indeed, but you miss his point spectacularly. He's talking about your own sin, not your perception of somebody else's. Not only are you not to concern yourself with the perceived sins of others, you are specifically warned that to do so is possibly the worst sin. The whole point, he says, is faith, hope and charity - "and the greatest of these is charity". He takes great pains to explain what is required under the heading of charity. You must not assume the actions of others to be sinful. You must think the best of people, not the worst. You must not judge or assume yourself to be the arbiter of morality for anybody else. You must only worry about your own morality.

In other words, he went out of his way to condemn people like you. Have you never heard of the Pharisee and the Publican? I have to warn you that if you're basing your whole life ethic and moral foundation on being some sort of teacher's pet or snitch for Jesus, you're going to get an awful gunk when you show up at them gates.

Your first paragraph is excellent and sums up a lot of what is wrong with a lot of self perceived christians. I have a lot of respect for a lot of peoples faith though wouldn't be overly religious myself. The attitude however of the judgemental, e.g. the person who started up this thread, stinks. That is not an attack on christianity. It is what is wrong with *some* christians.

I struggle a lot with some of the going's on on the board. I find myself engaging on threads where I know I shouldn't where I know I will be beat into submission or silence. But i do anyway. I don't try to be judgmental but try to give a different side to the conversation other than the usual spin that God is made up, anyone who believes in Him is an idiot..... That's hard to read/listen to over and over again without speaking up...

I'd not prescribe to that notion, but you have a point. I have no problem whatsoever in someone believing in God and having faith and living their life accordingly with zero impact to those who chose to life their life differently.

Tony on the other hand reminds me of a lot of 'devout' Christians who are only interested in how they are perceived, front of the church, bible in hand in solemn prayer, but only use it as a way to look down their noses at the rest of us mere mortals.
They are more interested in the sins of others than any spiritual enlightenment and more often than not miss the message being delivered to them every Saturday/Sunday as they believe its not aimed at them, but the 'sinners' who aren't as 'devout' as them.

Yes - it always irked me to see people who are quite frankly not nice people up at the front of mass doing all the volunteering trying to look like great people meanwhile they'd steal the eye out of your head.

The everyone who believes in God is stupid argument by some people is ridiculous. As per most of us here I've been brought up in a catholic family and I personally think that people saying this are being very disrespectful to their own family heritage by saying this.

[johnneycool]

Jesus repeatedly advises that sin must be avoided and that repentance is needed.

Indeed, but you miss his point spectacularly. He's talking about your own sin, not your perception of somebody else's. Not only are you not to concern yourself with the perceived sins of others, you are specifically warned that to do so is possibly the worst sin. The whole point, he says, is faith, hope and charity - "and the greatest of these is charity". He takes great pains to explain what is required under the heading of charity. You must not assume the actions of others to be sinful. You must think the best of people, not the worst. You must not judge or assume yourself to be the arbiter of morality for anybody else. You must only worry about your own morality.

In other words, he went out of his way to condemn people like you. Have you never heard of the Pharisee and the Publican? I have to warn you that if you're basing your whole life ethic and moral foundation on being some sort of teacher's pet or snitch for Jesus, you're going to get an awful gunk when you show up at them gates.

Your first paragraph is excellent and sums up a lot of what is wrong with a lot of self perceived christians. I have a lot of respect for a lot of peoples faith though wouldn't be overly religious myself. The attitude however of the judgemental, e.g. the person who started up this thread, stinks. That is not an attack on christianity. It is what is wrong with *some* christians.

I struggle a lot with some of the going's on on the board. I find myself engaging on threads where I know I shouldn't where I know I will be beat into submission or silence. But i do anyway. I don't try to be judgmental but try to give a different side to the conversation other than the usual spin that God is made up, anyone who believes in Him is an idiot..... That's hard to read/listen to over and over again without speaking up...

I'd not prescribe to that notion, but you have a point. I have no problem whatsoever in someone believing in God and having faith and living their life accordingly with zero impact to those who chose to life their life differently.

Tony on the other hand reminds me of a lot of 'devout' Christians who are only interested in how they are perceived, front of the church, bible in hand in solemn prayer, but only use it as a way to look down their noses at the rest of us mere mortals.
They are more interested in the sins of others than any spiritual enlightenment and more often than not miss the message being delivered to them every Saturday/Sunday as they believe its not aimed at them, but the 'sinners' who aren't as 'devout' as them.

Yes - it always irked me to see people who are quite frankly not nice people up at the front of mass doing all the volunteering trying to look like great people meanwhile they'd steal the eye out of your head.

The everyone who believes in God is stupid argument by some people is ridiculous. As per most of us here I've been brought up in a catholic family and I personally think that people saying this are being very disrespectful to their own family heritage by saying this.

Obviously Tommy and I aren't being judgmental in the slightest 

[imtommygunn]

Lol.Not everyone JC just some or else we're as bad as the people we're complaining about!!

[gallsman]

LCohen,I would love actually not to believe and to have proof God doesn't exist.But there's something nagging at me saying you pay the price for not doing right.Also the story of the resurrection has survived for over 2000 years.

In any event if it's all false I've lost nothing,I have a good life,good health and count my blessings every day.

You're not really a man of faith. You're just hedging your bets. Why would anyone who believed in god love to not believe in god?

He's not even - he focuses exclusively on this one "sin" but doesn't appear to give a toss about the impact all the other "sins" he commits on a daily basis might have on the eternal salvation of his soul.

He is, in short, as we all know and have known for years, a bigot. A bit of a Neanderthal too.

[T Fearon]

Hello? It's a core tenet of the Christian faith that salvation is a basic requirement, in the form of accepting the saviour, repentance and refraining from sin, to the best of one's ability. I do nothing more than this, because I desire salvation. I do not look down my nose at anyone or judge anyone.What's wrong with that? The Bible constantly tells us to fear God. It's the way you might fear your parents as a young child, but you still love them too.

Attempts to twist my words or misinterpret my sentiments on this thread are perverse. Firstly mocked for my beliefs, then ridiculed for the allegedly having the wrong reasons for them?

[foxcommander]

He is, in short, as we all know and have known for years, a bigot. A bit of a Neanderthal too.

Matthew 7:1-2 

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

[johnneycool]

Hello? It's a core tenet of the Christian faith that salvation is a basic requirement, in the form of accepting the saviour, repentance and refraining from sin, to the best of one's ability. I do nothing more than this, because I desire salvation. I do not look down my nose at anyone or judge anyone.What's wrong with that? The Bible constantly tells us to fear God. It's the way you might fear your parents as a young child, but you still love them too.

Attempts to twist my words or misinterpret my sentiments on this thread are perverse. Firstly mocked for my beliefs, then ridiculed for the allegedly having the wrong reasons for them?

I used to tell the priest during confession (back in the day) that I told lies as I was always led to believe that was a sin ,got my 10 hail mary's and a few our fathers, an act of contrition and was on my merry way.

I think you're due a few hail marys the next time you're in the confessional Tone.............

[imtommygunn]

Hello? It's a core tenet of the Christian faith that salvation is a basic requirement, in the form of accepting the saviour, repentance and refraining from sin, to the best of one's ability. I do nothing more than this, because I desire salvation. I do not look down my nose at anyone or judge anyone.What's wrong with that? The Bible constantly tells us to fear God. It's the way you might fear your parents as a young child, but you still love them too.

Attempts to twist my words or misinterpret my sentiments on this thread are perverse. Firstly mocked for my beliefs, then ridiculed for the allegedly having the wrong reasons for them?

Belief and fear aren't synonymous though.

Why would someone who is supposedly a devout believer in God say :

LCohen,I would love actually not to believe and to have proof God doesn't exist.

How is that misinterpretation? I think it is perverse that a real believer in God would say this?? (You then backtracked by saying you would love proof of his existence or non existence - that's what it was though. Backtracking.

[gallsman]

He is, in short, as we all know and have known for years, a bigot. A bit of a Neanderthal too.

Matthew 7:1-2 

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

Thankfully I don't believe in God or Christianity or any of that and think it's perfectly acceptable, and right, to call bigotry (and those who use religion as a shield for bigotry) out as and when I see it.

At least in the case of someone like Iceman, there exists genuine belief. I don't for a second doubt that he studies the Bible regularly and attempts to live his live according to Christian beliefs. Tony just cherry picks whatever Christian beliefs he fancies that suit his particular agenda and the hides behind them, claiming piety and righteousness.

[Oraisteach]

Tony, don't you think that acting good simply out of fear  is a low standard.  If you found the proof that you seek of God's non-existence, would you act morally now that your motivation for good behaviour was gone?  And wouldn't God, being all-knowing, see your real rationale for what it is?