gaaboard.com

3rd year in a row!
Odds should swing a bit after today's match. Donegal going in after a poor performance, similar to 2013. At least there will no complacency on the part of Donegal.

BTW, I've heard it repeated a few times this week that Donegal reaching their fifth final in a row is the first time its been done since the 60s. That's bullshit. Donegal played in five consecutive Ulster Finals between 89 and 93.

If you count the 89 replay, it was 6 in a row ;)

And they say Munster is predictable.....

Some old acquaintances just won't go away. they keep coming back.
I suppose we can accept that Donegal have earned their right this year to challenge us for the title but it will mean jack all on the day. Malachy will be all out to make amends for last year's numb performance. Donegal are still much of a muchness,  but with sporadic bursts of devastating football instead of what they once had, devastating sustained  periods of play.

I don't get this Donegal being complacent bit , why on earth would Donegal entertain complacency in a UCSF or UCF?  That's an absurd idea. They were not complacent against Derry, they just weren't that good.

Finding your place is often the job of others.

Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2015, 12:01:11 AM
Some old acquaintances just won't go away. they keep coming back.
I suppose we can accept that Donegal have earned their right this year to challenge us for the title but it will mean jack all on the day. Malachy will be all out to make amends for last year's numb performance. Donegal are still much of a muchness,  but with sporadic bursts of devastating football instead of what they once had, devastating sustained  periods of play.

I don't get this Donegal being complacent bit , why on earth would Donegal entertain complacency in a UCSF or UCF?  That's an absurd idea. They were not complacent against Derry, they just weren't that good.

How do you know no Donegal players were complacent? Do you reject out of hand the idea that even a little complacency could affect individuals on a team that is being lauded up and down the land and whose next opponent has presented them very few problems in meetings over the past couple of seasons?

I agree they weren't very good. They were pretty awful in fact, even when completely on top in the first 15 minutes, with some very poor wides hit then. Although you just have to live with wides some days, especially on a very wet day like that. My biggest concern watching it was the amount of times Derry men won the scrappy ball, sometimes when surrounded by two or three Donegal men. They just seemed to want it more at times and looked to have a greater intensity for the battle than the Donegal players. I'd be interested to see the stats on blocked shots. I remember one Donegal block, very late on, whereas Derry had quite a few. That is why I would question the attitude a wee bit today, especially as it is usually not something that is found wanting in the team.
But, it is easy to criticize from the sidelines. Derry were well up for the physical battle, and as Monaghan, Armagh and others have shown in various games over the last couple of years, sometimes Donegal don't cope too well when faced with it.

Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2015, 12:35:30 AM

Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2015, 12:01:11 AM
Some old acquaintances just won't go away. they keep coming back.
I suppose we can accept that Donegal have earned their right this year to challenge us for the title but it will mean jack all on the day. Malachy will be all out to make amends for last year's numb performance. Donegal are still much of a muchness,  but with sporadic bursts of devastating football instead of what they once had, devastating sustained  periods of play.

I don't get this Donegal being complacent bit , why on earth would Donegal entertain complacency in a UCSF or UCF?  That's an absurd idea. They were not complacent against Derry, they just weren't that good.

How do you know no Donegal players were complacent? Do you reject out of hand the idea that even a little complacency could affect individuals on a team that is being lauded up and down the land and whose next opponent has presented them very few problems in meetings over the past couple of seasons?

I agree they weren't very good. They were pretty awful in fact, even when completely on top in the first 15 minutes, with some very poor wides hit then. Although you just have to live with wides some days, especially on a very wet day like that. My biggest concern watching it was the amount of times Derry men won the scrappy ball, sometimes when surrounded by two or three Donegal men. They just seemed to want it more at times and looked to have a greater intensity for the battle than the Donegal players. I'd be interested to see the stats on blocked shots. I remember one Donegal block, very late on, whereas Derry had quite a few. That is why I would question the attitude a wee bit today, especially as it is usually not something that is found wanting in the team.
But, it is easy to criticize from the sidelines. Derry were well up for the physical battle, and as Monaghan, Armagh and others have shown in various games over the last couple of years, sometimes Donegal don't cope too well when faced with it.

Admit it, you are worried.

Quote from: The Subbie on June 28, 2015, 01:57:47 AM

Quote from: J70 on June 28, 2015, 12:35:30 AM

Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2015, 12:01:11 AM
Some old acquaintances just won't go away. they keep coming back.
I suppose we can accept that Donegal have earned their right this year to challenge us for the title but it will mean jack all on the day. Malachy will be all out to make amends for last year's numb performance. Donegal are still much of a muchness,  but with sporadic bursts of devastating football instead of what they once had, devastating sustained  periods of play.

I don't get this Donegal being complacent bit , why on earth would Donegal entertain complacency in a UCSF or UCF?  That's an absurd idea. They were not complacent against Derry, they just weren't that good.

How do you know no Donegal players were complacent? Do you reject out of hand the idea that even a little complacency could affect individuals on a team that is being lauded up and down the land and whose next opponent has presented them very few problems in meetings over the past couple of seasons?

I agree they weren't very good. They were pretty awful in fact, even when completely on top in the first 15 minutes, with some very poor wides hit then. Although you just have to live with wides some days, especially on a very wet day like that. My biggest concern watching it was the amount of times Derry men won the scrappy ball, sometimes when surrounded by two or three Donegal men. They just seemed to want it more at times and looked to have a greater intensity for the battle than the Donegal players. I'd be interested to see the stats on blocked shots. I remember one Donegal block, very late on, whereas Derry had quite a few. That is why I would question the attitude a wee bit today, especially as it is usually not something that is found wanting in the team.
But, it is easy to criticize from the sidelines. Derry were well up for the physical battle, and as Monaghan, Armagh and others have shown in various games over the last couple of years, sometimes Donegal don't cope too well when faced with it.

Admit it, you are worried.

Yes.

I said pretty much that in the first post in the thread.

I think Monaghan would certainly have beaten Donegal on today's performance.

J70, didn't see the game but reading about it Donegal did enough, if they keep doing enough then sound.
If Monaghan play like last years final it's Donegals day, no question at all.

What Monaghan team are going to turn up though, I'm long enough watching them to be worried myself but underdog tag really suits us

Quote from: The Subbie on June 28, 2015, 02:53:45 AM
J70, didn't see the game but reading about it Donegal did enough, if they keep doing enough then sound.
If Monaghan play like last years final it's Donegals day, no question at all.

What Monaghan team are going to turn up though, I'm long enough watching them to be worried myself but underdog tag really suits us

I think the odds will be evenly split after today. Monaghan are a better team than Derry, and Derry will consider that a chance missed. And Monaghan,  on paper, came through the far easier side of the draw. But, on the other hand, I would expect Donegal to be really up for this, just as they were last year, and match the Monaghan men for effort and commitment.  Maybe today will be a blessing in disguise... or maybe,  as Canavan predicts, it was the first sign of a team with a lot of mileage starting to lose a bit of steam.

The first two games, against Tyrone & Armagh, were seen by everyone as being big hurdles to get over.

Having done that, with some style against Armagh, it would be difficult to maintain that intensity against a team that were seen by many to be on a poor run of form.

No matter how much you guard against it or tell yourself different the performance levels can slip by 10% - 15% & if the opposition are up for it then you are in trouble.

Let's not forget that Monaghan weren't brilliant against Fermanagh, for the same reasons, but I suspect that both side will be at full tilt for the final.

Monaghan are capable of beating Donegal at home in Clones if they have another off day, but they are going nowhere in the championship afterwards.

My main prediction here is for Hughes to get frustrated with Donegal's diving antics, throw a few punches and pick up a deserved red card towards the end of the game.

Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 28, 2015, 02:06:34 PM
The first two games, against Tyrone & Armagh, were seen by everyone as being big hurdles to get over.

On the basis of Tyrone and Armagh's performances since the Donegal game - unconvincing wins against a side that came joint bottom of Division 4 and a side that just avoided relegation to Division 3, you have to wonder were they really that big of a hurdle for Donegal to overcome.

Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 28, 2015, 02:06:34 PM
The first two games, against Tyrone & Armagh, were seen by everyone as being big hurdles to get over.

Having done that, with some style against Armagh, it would be difficult to maintain that intensity against a team that were seen by many to be on a poor run of form.

No matter how much you guard against it or tell yourself different the performance levels can slip by 10% - 15% & if the opposition are up for it then you are in trouble.

Let's not forget that Monaghan weren't brilliant against Fermanagh, for the same reasons, but I suspect that both side will be at full tilt for the final.

That's it in a nutshell. They were two big games. I'd say Donegal (as well as the rest of us) was surprised how easily Armagh rolled over. So in fairness they were not going to have the same intensity yesterday, it's about winning and not peaking from here to the AI semi finals. It's hard to deal with such test earlier in the championship and not use up all your positive energy?

When Armagh won Ulster from the preliminary round it was big news, as it  had only happened once before. Donegal have made this routine and they may not have seen Derry as quite as big a threat as Tyrone or Armagh away. I'd say they would like to beat Monaghan.

Quote from: twohands!!! on June 28, 2015, 07:32:06 PM

Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 28, 2015, 02:06:34 PM
The first two games, against Tyrone & Armagh, were seen by everyone as being big hurdles to get over.

On the basis of Tyrone and Armagh's performances since the Donegal game - unconvincing wins against a side that came joint bottom of Division 4 and a side that just avoided relegation to Division 3, you have to wonder were they really that big of a hurdle for Donegal to overcome.

On the contrary, Tyrone & Armagh's performances in the qualifiers make my point.

It is difficult to get yourself to top performance levels against teams you expect to beat. For Tyrone & Armagh it would be even more difficult having been knocked out of the Ulster Championship.

Quote from: BluestackBoy on June 28, 2015, 02:06:34 PM
The first two games, against Tyrone & Armagh, were seen by everyone as being big hurdles to get over...
Let's not forget that Monaghan weren't brilliant against Fermanagh, for the same reasons, but I suspect that both side will be at full tilt for the final.

Donegal's performances so far in the championship make them obvious favourites, as they've put away decent sides convincingly. Derry were always going to up their game. Had Bradley put over a fairly easy free it would have been a lot tighter. Derry lost the momentum they'd gained, Donegal capitalised.

Monaghan know they can't spurn easy chances that come along and they won't. Donegal's midfield is probably the difference on paper. Apart from last year's Ulster Final, I haven't witnessed a flat performance against our friends from the north west.

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on June 28, 2015, 07:21:18 PM
Monaghan are capable of beating Donegal at home in Clones if they have another off day, but they are going nowhere in the championship afterwards.

My main prediction here is for Hughes to get frustrated with Donegal's diving antics, throw a few punches and pick up a deserved red card towards the end of the game.

It's good to see a Dub take such a healthy interest in the most competitive province and seeing you acknowledge that football doesn't cease to exist beyond The Naul or Finglas, well done.
If you need to know any good pubs to go to before the final let me know but try and be on time for the game, Utd wont be playing so you should be able to sup up and make the throw in , allow an extra few minutes for the walk up the hill though.

Monaghan were fairly unconvincing in 2013 against Antrim and Cavan. I'd take the same outcome in the final.

Monaghan's element of surprise is gone. Donegal's system is tried and tested.

It's a real tribute to Monaghan that when they won that Ulster final, Monaghan were any price to win and Donegal were 1/10. Donegal are 4/9 and Monaghan best priced 9/4. That's how much progress Monaghan have made in the interim. It won't be a shock if Monaghan beat Donegal unlike the bolt from the "blue" of a few years ago.

I'm really looking forward to this one.

Was thinking about the likely impact in terms of the subs benches and had a quick look at the games both have played so far and how much they have used the subs bench.

So far in the championship Donegal have used 12 subs in 3 games playing roughly 130 minutes and contributing zero to the scoreboard.

Monaghan by contrast have used 10 subs in 2 games playing roughly 210 minutes and contributing 7 points (all from play)

7 of those Donegal subs were made in the 68th minute or later while the latest Monaghan made any sub was the 67th minute.

The total time played is an approximate figure as trying to get completely accurate time subs are on the field with injury time is almost impossible.

However overall I think it's clear that there is a definite gap in the teams in terms of the subs bench and I don't think this is down to Monaghan having an especially strong bench but more down to the fact that Donegal have a very weak one.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 28, 2015, 08:17:03 PM
When Armagh won Ulster from the preliminary round it was big news, as it  had only happened once before. Donegal have made this routine and they may not have seen Derry as quite as big a threat as Tyrone or Armagh away. I'd say they would like to beat Monaghan.

They would have seen the Kilkenny footballers as a bigger threat than Armagh after that performance @ the Athletic grounds !

Quote from: twohands!!! on June 29, 2015, 09:24:59 AM
Was thinking about the likely impact in terms of the subs benches and had a quick look at the games both have played so far and how much they have used the subs bench.

So far in the championship Donegal have used 12 subs in 3 games playing roughly 130 minutes and contributing zero to the scoreboard.

Monaghan by contrast have used 10 subs in 2 games playing roughly 210 minutes and contributing 7 points (all from play)

7 of those Donegal subs were made in the 68th minute or later while the latest Monaghan made any sub was the 67th minute.

The total time played is an approximate figure as trying to get completely accurate time subs are on the field with injury time is almost impossible.

However overall I think it's clear that there is a definite gap in the teams in terms of the subs bench and I don't think this is down to Monaghan having an especially strong bench but more down to the fact that Donegal have a very weak one.

You're adamant about this donegal subs bench!

Quote from: orangeman on June 29, 2015, 07:57:00 AM
Monaghan's element of surprise is gone. Donegal's system is tried and tested.

It's a real tribute to Monaghan that when they won that Ulster final, Monaghan were any price to win and Donegal were 1/10. Donegal are 4/9 and Monaghan best priced 9/4. That's how much progress Monaghan have made in the interim. It won't be a shock if Monaghan beat Donegal unlike the bolt from the "blue" of a few years ago.

I'm really looking forward to this one.

Sure I think we were slight favourites last year and that didn't work out too well! At the very least it was about 50/50. So hopefully we can repeat 2013 by winning as the underdog, even if the odds are much closer.

It's true that the element of surprise is long gone, but I think the team have learned to deal with that over the last year. They won't lack for motivation after the poor showing of last year either. Whether this will be enough to beat Donegal remains to be seen. We're in a better place than last year but we'll definitely need to improve a good bit from the first two games.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 29, 2015, 10:09:03 AM

Quote from: twohands!!! on June 29, 2015, 09:24:59 AM
Was thinking about the likely impact in terms of the subs benches and had a quick look at the games both have played so far and how much they have used the subs bench.

So far in the championship Donegal have used 12 subs in 3 games playing roughly 130 minutes and contributing zero to the scoreboard.

Monaghan by contrast have used 10 subs in 2 games playing roughly 210 minutes and contributing 7 points (all from play)

7 of those Donegal subs were made in the 68th minute or later while the latest Monaghan made any sub was the 67th minute.

The total time played is an approximate figure as trying to get completely accurate time subs are on the field with injury time is almost impossible.

However overall I think it's clear that there is a definite gap in the teams in terms of the subs bench and I don't think this is down to Monaghan having an especially strong bench but more down to the fact that Donegal have a very weak one.

You're adamant about this donegal subs bench!

Yeah I know ;)

Shure there's worse things I could be bothered about....

We're definitely in a better place compared to last years final: Conor McManus had the flu, Kieran Hughes was on pain killing injections, Eoin Lennon and Neil McAdam were absent. The performance simply wasn't there last year and I can't see that happening again this year. We have a much stronger bench this year also who can influence the game.

Donegal's half-back and half forward lines are the danger men and need to be tightly marked. Monaghan can beat them but they will need to perform significantly better than they have done in their first two games. Let's hope it's a slow build up from Malachy and the real character is on display on the 19th...

It's strange how nervous I am about this and how fearful I am of Monaghan.  Because they haven't made the mark we have outside of Ulster. I guess it's about match-ups, and Monaghan have clearly shown they can out - compete and beat us over the past couple of seasons. But like Monaghan compared to last year, I think we are in much better shape than 2013, provided McBrearty's latest knock is minor.

It's going to be grim though!

And the loser, should they get through the qualifier, get Mayo, Dublin or Kerry! (Sorry Sligo, Westmeath and Cork!)

The loser will only get the losers of Connacht if they make it through. They can't play Munster or Leinster. They are in the B side.

It's generally accepted that Monaghan played poorly in last year's final.

And yet we were only beaten by three points..... a kick of the ball.

Monaghan are well fit for Donegal.

Fancy Monaghan to win this, Donegal will have used up a lot of energy in just getting to the Ulster final whereas Monaghan have had a fairly easy run to the final and could tailor their training to arrive at the final in peak condition. Monaghan are physically powerful and are patient enough and happy enough to engage in a war of attrition that this match will probably become.

Quote from: charlie linkbox on June 29, 2015, 02:33:42 PM
It's generally accepted that Monaghan played poorly in last year's final.

And yet we were only beaten by three points..... a kick of the ball.

Monaghan are well fit for Donegal.

3 points was not a reflection on that game. Donegal were far the better team and the margin was so narrow due to McGlynn dropping the ball and coughing up the goal. Similarly,  the previous year, Monaghan were probably 10 points better than Donegal.

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 29, 2015, 02:32:14 PM
The loser will only get the losers of Connacht if they make it through. They can't play Munster or Leinster. They are in the B side.

We had better win this, so!

Don't fancy Mayo at all, at least not at that stage.

We're playing our reflection



M McHugh needs to be allowed wear shouler pads & a crash helmet ..it's only fair

Quote from: Whitnail on June 29, 2015, 03:11:07 PM
We're playing our reflection

M McHugh needs to be allowed wear shouler pads & a crash helmet ..it's only fair

You'll be chasing shadows  ;)

Donegal need to cut out the histrionics. Some of the playacting against Derry wasn't nice. Refs took note I'd say.

Interesting tweet about McGuinness and Gallagher.

https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/615781431323680768 (https://twitter.com/KCsixtyseven/status/615781431323680768)

I did notice Jim referring to Donegal as "we" at one stage on Sky on Saturday but I didn't notice this.

Massive interest in this already round Monaghan. Real sense that this is a massive test of where this team is as many feel they are in a better place than previous years. 2013 was a case of real underdogs with nothing to lose, 2014 was still a strange one, was nearly overconfidence in some quarters but team had injuries.

This year it is closer to 2013 following Donegals performances to date and Monaghan struggling over the line rather than blowing anyone away, so they will be viewed as underdog. But its a better and fresher team than last year - Lennon and McAdam give them more physical options. McManus is better than ever and can handle the attention he gets. Kieran Hughes in great form and they can match Donegal for fitness levels but maybe not physicality, yet not a mile off them.

Should be a very interesting build up and I think it will be very close on the day once both teams get there in one piece.

HT Donegal 0-2 Monaghan 0-2

FT Donegal 0-8 Monaghan 1-4

Quote from: Pub Bore on June 30, 2015, 01:23:39 PM
HT Donegal 0-2 Monaghan 0-2

FT Donegal 0-8 Monaghan 1-4

If Conor McManus is barb-wired to the back of the goal posts Monaghan will still get more than 5 scores (and two more than Donegal at the final whistle  ;))

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 30, 2015, 01:43:20 PM

Quote from: Pub Bore on June 30, 2015, 01:23:39 PM
HT Donegal 0-2 Monaghan 0-2

FT Donegal 0-8 Monaghan 1-4

If Conor McManus is barb-wired to the back of the goal posts Monaghan will still get more than 5 scores (and two more than Donegal at the final whistle  ;))

Jeez don't be giving them McGee lads any ideas ;)

I have a sneaky fancy for Monaghan in this one. I'd say it won't be a classic free-flowing game but it should be an interesting contest

Quote from: Bingo on June 30, 2015, 01:06:40 PM
Massive interest in this already round Monaghan. Real sense that this is a massive test of where this team is as many feel they are in a better place than previous years. 2013 was a case of real underdogs with nothing to lose, 2014 was still a strange one, was nearly overconfidence in some quarters but team had injuries.

This year it is closer to 2013 following Donegals performances to date and Monaghan struggling over the line rather than blowing anyone away, so they will be viewed as underdog. But its a better and fresher team than last year - Lennon and McAdam give them more physical options. McManus is better than ever and can handle the attention he gets. Kieran Hughes in great form and they can match Donegal for fitness levels but maybe not physicality, yet not a mile off them.

Should be a very interesting build up and I think it will be very close on the day once both teams get there in one piece.

Good upbeat preview there Bingo. I hear the Doogan is available too, an extra experienced option in midfield. Neil Gallagher is playing great stuff, and they're scooping up a lot of breaking ball, so we've really got to up it in midfield.

I'd like to see K Hughes press forward. He and Darren are motoring well. It's important we vary and up the supply with runs from Kelly, Mone and O'Connell, with Duffy coming in later. Derry gave us a good pointers in this.

Collie Walsh will hopefully be back to himself. Pity to lose Drew, but it's a strong defense.

Looking forward to this one.

I thought Derry killed us at midfield for a lot of the game, especially second half, although Neil individually played very well. Derry won an awful lot of the breaks.

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 29, 2015, 02:32:14 PM
The loser will only get the losers of Connacht if they make it through. They can't play Munster or Leinster. They are in the B side.

Is it not so that provincial losers can only meet, if they both get through to the semi final.

The provincial loser plays a r3 qualifier winner
and then that winner meets a provincial champion.
Of course, I'm just working this one out for our challenged Donegal friends :)

Quote from: Bingo on June 30, 2015, 01:06:40 PM
Massive interest in this already round Monaghan. Real sense that this is a massive test of where this team is as many feel they are in a better place than previous years. 2013 was a case of real underdogs with nothing to lose, 2014 was still a strange one, was nearly overconfidence in some quarters but team had injuries.

This year it is closer to 2013 following Donegals performances to date and Monaghan struggling over the line rather than blowing anyone away, so they will be viewed as underdog. But its a better and fresher team than last year - Lennon and McAdam give them more physical options. McManus is better than ever and can handle the attention he gets. Kieran Hughes in great form and they can match Donegal for fitness levels but maybe not physicality, yet not a mile off them.

Should be a very interesting build up and I think it will be very close on the day once both teams get there in one piece.

No doubt that we are underdogs for this game,  but confident underdogs.

Quote from: Main Street on June 30, 2015, 09:21:28 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 29, 2015, 02:32:14 PM
The loser will only get the losers of Connacht if they make it through. They can't play Munster or Leinster. They are in the B side.

Is it not so that provincial losers can only meet, if they both get through to the semi final.

The provincial loser plays a r3 qualifier winner
and then that winner meets a provincial champion.
Of course, I'm just working this one out for our challenged Donegal friends :)

I thought he was saying that the loser of Donegal v Monaghan could only get the winner of Connacht in the quarter final should they win their qualifier, but I see now that he said "loser" of the Connacht final.

Looking at the GAA website, the losers in Connacht and Ulster finals will play whichever pair come out of Tyrone/Meath/Armagh/Galway/Tipp/Louth/Wexford/Derry.

Then, the winners of those ties will be paired with the Connacht/Ulster winners in the quarter finals.

I have no idea if and when rematches are allowed. For example, could we be drawn with Armagh, Monaghan or Tyrone in the qualifiers or quarter final?

Presumably, at least, they wouldn't have a quarter final being a rematch of a provincial final?!

Quote from: Main Street on June 30, 2015, 09:23:40 PM

Quote from: Bingo on June 30, 2015, 01:06:40 PM
Massive interest in this already round Monaghan. Real sense that this is a massive test of where this team is as many feel they are in a better place than previous years. 2013 was a case of real underdogs with nothing to lose, 2014 was still a strange one, was nearly overconfidence in some quarters but team had injuries.

This year it is closer to 2013 following Donegals performances to date and Monaghan struggling over the line rather than blowing anyone away, so they will be viewed as underdog. But its a better and fresher team than last year - Lennon and McAdam give them more physical options. McManus is better than ever and can handle the attention he gets. Kieran Hughes in great form and they can match Donegal for fitness levels but maybe not physicality, yet not a mile off them.

Should be a very interesting build up and I think it will be very close on the day once both teams get there in one piece.

No doubt that we are underdogs for this game,  but confident underdogs.

The odds are insane based on what we've seen:

Ladbrokes/PP: Monaghan 9/4 Donegal 4/9 Draw 15/2
Betfair: Monaghan 2/1 Donegal 4/11

Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2015, 01:56:46 AM
The odds are insane based on what we've seen:

Ladbrokes/PP: Monaghan 9/4 Donegal 4/9 Draw 15/2
Betfair: Monaghan 2/1 Donegal 4/11

Donegal look pretty much unbackable at those odds while Monaghan at 9/4 look like they might be worth a value punt.

Can't help but wonder if the amount backed on both sides to win Sam has affected the odds for this game a bit. Donegal are 9/2  to win Sam while Monaghan are 30/1 on Paddypower. I could see a fair amount of people backing Donegal for Sam while I'm not sure that many have backed Monaghan to go all the way even with the odds difference. Bookies might want to keep their exposure down in case of a Donegal win as if they win this they have one less win to win Sam than if they lose, which given Donegal's squad is likely to be a bit of a factor. Not sure if I explained this well - Maybe some mathematical betting person might be able to explain it.

Tis late and I never sleep properly with the weather.

Dublin are 10/11, Kerry are 7/2 with Mayo at 8/1

Goddamit I knew twohands!!!! was a gambler

One hand on the stats sheet
The other on the betting slip


Don't know why he don't call himself "Hands!!!" though.
The "two" part is  overkill.

Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2015, 01:56:46 AM

Quote from: Main Street on June 30, 2015, 09:23:40 PM

Quote from: Bingo on June 30, 2015, 01:06:40 PM
Massive interest in this already round Monaghan. Real sense that this is a massive test of where this team is as many feel they are in a better place than previous years. 2013 was a case of real underdogs with nothing to lose, 2014 was still a strange one, was nearly overconfidence in some quarters but team had injuries.

This year it is closer to 2013 following Donegals performances to date and Monaghan struggling over the line rather than blowing anyone away, so they will be viewed as underdog. But its a better and fresher team than last year - Lennon and McAdam give them more physical options. McManus is better than ever and can handle the attention he gets. Kieran Hughes in great form and they can match Donegal for fitness levels but maybe not physicality, yet not a mile off them.

Should be a very interesting build up and I think it will be very close on the day once both teams get there in one piece.

No doubt that we are underdogs for this game,  but confident underdogs.

The odds are insane based on what we've seen:

Ladbrokes/PP: Monaghan 9/4 Donegal 4/9 Draw 15/2
Betfair: Monaghan 2/1 Donegal 4/11

Not so insane.
What we have seen were two impressive Donegal performances followed by a bit of a stumble.
Insane was when Monaghan were evens favourite on two occasions, pre championship and after they beat Cavan. It's Monaghan who have already claimed the insane prediction tag and we'll hold onto it for a while longer.
4/9  is just about right for Donegal, don't be too meek about wearing the mantle of strong favourites. It's Monaghan who have the greater task.

Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2015, 01:50:24 AM

Quote from: Main Street on June 30, 2015, 09:21:28 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 29, 2015, 02:32:14 PM
The loser will only get the losers of Connacht if they make it through. They can't play Munster or Leinster. They are in the B side.

Is it not so that provincial losers can only meet, if they both get through to the semi final.

The provincial loser plays a r3 qualifier winner
and then that winner meets a provincial champion.
Of course, I'm just working this one out for our challenged Donegal friends :)

I thought he was saying that the loser of Donegal v Monaghan could only get the winner of Connacht in the quarter final should they win their qualifier, but I see now that he said "loser" of the Connacht final.

Looking at the GAA website, the losers in Connacht and Ulster finals will play whichever pair come out of Tyrone/Meath/Armagh/Galway/Tipp/Louth/Wexford/Derry.

Then, the winners of those ties will be paired with the Connacht/Ulster winners in the quarter finals.

I have no idea if and when rematches are allowed. For example, could we be drawn with Armagh, Monaghan or Tyrone in the qualifiers or quarter final?

Presumably, at least, they wouldn't have a quarter final being a rematch of a provincial final?!

Afaics the provincial finalists cannot meet in the 1/4 final under any circumstance
The Ulster champion awaits the victor of the Connacht loser v qualifier  game
The Ulster loser, should they come through the r4 tie against a qualifier, can only meet the Connacht champion in the 1/4 final

Quote from: Main Street on July 01, 2015, 11:33:57 AM

Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2015, 01:56:46 AM

Quote from: Main Street on June 30, 2015, 09:23:40 PM

Quote from: Bingo on June 30, 2015, 01:06:40 PM
Massive interest in this already round Monaghan. Real sense that this is a massive test of where this team is as many feel they are in a better place than previous years. 2013 was a case of real underdogs with nothing to lose, 2014 was still a strange one, was nearly overconfidence in some quarters but team had injuries.

This year it is closer to 2013 following Donegals performances to date and Monaghan struggling over the line rather than blowing anyone away, so they will be viewed as underdog. But its a better and fresher team than last year - Lennon and McAdam give them more physical options. McManus is better than ever and can handle the attention he gets. Kieran Hughes in great form and they can match Donegal for fitness levels but maybe not physicality, yet not a mile off them.

Should be a very interesting build up and I think it will be very close on the day once both teams get there in one piece.

No doubt that we are underdogs for this game,  but confident underdogs.

The odds are insane based on what we've seen:

Ladbrokes/PP: Monaghan 9/4 Donegal 4/9 Draw 15/2
Betfair: Monaghan 2/1 Donegal 4/11

Not so insane.
What we have seen were two impressive Donegal performances followed by a bit of a stumble.
Insane was when Monaghan were evens favourite on two occasions, pre championship and after they beat Cavan. It's Monaghan who have already claimed the insane prediction tag and we'll hold onto it for a while longer.
4/9  is just about right for Donegal, don't be too meek about wearing the mantle of strong favourites. It's Monaghan who have the greater task.

My attitude towards the odds or who is favourite is irrelevant to the outcome. I just don't understand them. This game is 50/50 for me, and I expect the same for any honest observer. Monaghan have too good a track record against Donegal to be such relative outsiders.

I'll make another stab at this, to see if I can clarify.


Section B of the qualifiers currently has reached round 2, i.e. 2B, and has the following fixtures.

Tipperary v Louth
Tyrone v Meath
Derry v Wexford
Armagh v Galway


Round 3B will have only 2 matches, featuring an open draw of the 4 winners of round 2B.

Round 4B is where the provincial losers come in. And as Connacht and Ulster Finals are designated B section games, it is the losers of Connacht and Ulster who will feature in round 4B.

They will be drawn, from a separate pot, against the winners of the 2 round 3B games.

That, then is the end of Qualifying Rounds, per se.

The Quarter Finals continue to enforce the A and B split, so the winners of Round 4B will be drawn against the winners of Connacht and Ulster. If the provincial losers manage to win their round 4B game, they will NOT be allowed play the team that just beat them in a provincial final.

A worked example.

2B
Tipperary v Louth
Tyrone v Meath
Derry v Wexford
Armagh v Galway

3B
Louth v Tyrone
Wexford v Armagh

4B
Connacht losers Mayo v Tyrone
Ulster losers Donegal v Armagh

Quarter Final
Connacht Champions Sligo v Donegal
Ulster Champions Monaghan v Mayo

So win or lose the Ulster final, we could easily be meeting Tyrone or Armagh again.

Yes.

Quote from: AZOffaly on July 01, 2015, 02:51:08 PM
I'll make another stab at this, to see if I can clarify.

I think I had clarified it very simply and concisely :)

QuoteThe Quarter Finals continue to enforce the A and B split, so the winners of Round 4B will be drawn against the winners of Connacht and Ulster. If the provincial losers manage to win their round 4B game, they will NOT be allowed play the team that just beat them in a provincial final.

The structure of the draw does not allow for the possibility of  Donegal meeting Monaghan in the 1/4 final.

Quote4B
Connacht losers Mayo v Tyrone
Ulster losers Donegal v Armagh

Quarter Final
Connacht Champions Sligo v Donegal
Ulster Champions Monaghan v Mayo

In your example, Ulster champion Monaghan can only draw the winners of Mayo v Tyrone.
There is no other possibility.

Yes. Exactly. That's what I said.

People cry about the quality of football these days. Look at this passage from the 1979 Ulster Final (the goal was a decent strike, but the amount of aimless, anywhere will do kicking!)

https://vimeo.com/112911347 (https://vimeo.com/112911347)

One full-on hefty late tackle and a dangerously loose fly-kick in those 40 seconds, no wonder the ref didn't spot the pick-up from the ground, he was probably wiping blood splatter from his face.

Quote from: AZOffaly on July 01, 2015, 04:05:20 PM
Yes. Exactly. That's what I said.

Fair enough.
I understood  that your use of the words "not allow"  more implies that a choice exists in the 1/4 final pairings and that the GAA would step in to take away the choice.
Whereas, the 1/4 final pairings are predetermined all the way in the structure of the draw, to prevent provincial finalists meeting.

Quote from: twohands!!! on July 01, 2015, 02:25:35 AMCan't help but wonder if the amount backed on both sides to win Sam has affected the odds for this game a bit. Donegal are 9/2  to win Sam while Monaghan are 30/1 on Paddypower. I could see a fair amount of people backing Donegal for Sam while I'm not sure that many have backed Monaghan to go all the way even with the odds difference. Bookies might want to keep their exposure down in case of a Donegal win as if they win this they have one less win to win Sam than if they lose, which given Donegal's squad is likely to be a bit of a factor. Not sure if I explained this well - Maybe some mathematical betting person might be able to explain it.

I would be happy to.

Monaghan are simply not capable of winning the All Ireland Championship.

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 01, 2015, 09:51:48 PM

Quote from: twohands!!! on July 01, 2015, 02:25:35 AMCan't help but wonder if the amount backed on both sides to win Sam has affected the odds for this game a bit. Donegal are 9/2  to win Sam while Monaghan are 30/1 on Paddypower. I could see a fair amount of people backing Donegal for Sam while I'm not sure that many have backed Monaghan to go all the way even with the odds difference. Bookies might want to keep their exposure down in case of a Donegal win as if they win this they have one less win to win Sam than if they lose, which given Donegal's squad is likely to be a bit of a factor. Not sure if I explained this well - Maybe some mathematical betting person might be able to explain it.

I would be happy to.

Monaghan are simply not capable of winning the All Ireland Championship.

Maybe so but that does not answer the question, despite your evident blissful eagerness to jump in with both feet, the question is about Donegal not Monaghan.

Leo mcloone apparently back training with the donegal squad tonight. Be great to have Leo back in the squad, like Declan walsh return it would help to strengthen the overall squad

And McBrearty is back to full training this weekend too, apparently.

For overall squad depth Leo and Declan are massive additions. Regarding the Ulster Final both teams will be up a notch from previous outings but I will be bullish and say Donegal to win with an awesome display of brains and braun. Murphy to do damage inside this time and Mark McHugh to play a 2012 style starring role as sweeper starving McManus of ball. Who's the ref anyone?

It's all gone quiet here since that little positive flurry from Donegal.

The Clash of Ulster titans Part 3.

1 all.  tic toc...

It may sound cliché but if both teams play to their true potential then there'll not be much in it. Expect it to be a tactical battle on the sideline as much as across the white line. As I said previously, Monaghan definitely have a greater strength in depth this time around (and 14 of our 15 regulars fit and ready...) The addition of McCloone and Walsh will certainly help Donegal but both have no big game experience this year, for which there is no substitute.

Who's gonna blink first?  :o

Referee: David Coldrick (same as 2013)

http://www.hoganstand.com/Monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=240741 (http://www.hoganstand.com/Monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=240741)

Ahh, the mind games.. It would be fantastic to have a player of Drew's ability available but I believe Sunday week will come too soon. He wasn't fit before he sustained his latest injury so it's highly unlikely that he would be anywhere near match fit come the final. A very unfit Conor McManus played against Tyrone last year in the first round but that's different. To me, your full back needs to be absolutely flying fit to stick with his man. Wylie's always done well on McFadden and was one of the stand out pairings in last years dour final..

Hopefully we'll need him down the road this year though..

I'm starting to think that Donegals refusal to play with any sort of attacking intent against us in the league was all just a big ploy for next Sunday.... 

Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on July 10, 2015, 04:00:33 PM
I'm starting to think that Donegals refusal to play with any sort of attacking intent against us in the league was all just a big ploy for next Sunday....

It was the long con from the beginning!

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 08, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
It may sound cliché but if both teams play to their true potential then there'll not be much in it. Expect it to be a tactical battle on the sideline as much as across the white line. As I said previously, Monaghan definitely have a greater strength in depth this time around (and 14 of our 15 regulars fit and ready...) The addition of McCloone and Walsh will certainly help Donegal but both have no big game experience this year, for which there is no substitute.

Who's gonna blink first?  :o

I assume you mean this year. Unlike everyone on the Monaghan team who have been truly tested so far?

Quote from: dlgael on July 11, 2015, 04:12:23 AM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 08, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
It may sound cliché but if both teams play to their true potential then there'll not be much in it. Expect it to be a tactical battle on the sideline as much as across the white line. As I said previously, Monaghan definitely have a greater strength in depth this time around (and 14 of our 15 regulars fit and ready...) The addition of McCloone and Walsh will certainly help Donegal but both have no big game experience this year, for which there is no substitute.

Who's gonna blink first?  :o

I assume you mean this year. Unlike everyone on the Monaghan team who have been truly tested so far?

No need to assume. The next two words will do.

Quote from: dlgael on July 11, 2015, 04:12:23 AM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 08, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
It may sound cliché but if both teams play to their true potential then there'll not be much in it. Expect it to be a tactical battle on the sideline as much as across the white line. As I said previously, Monaghan definitely have a greater strength in depth this time around (and 14 of our 15 regulars fit and ready...) The addition of McCloone and Walsh will certainly help Donegal but both have no big game experience this year, for which there is no substitute.

Who's gonna blink first?  :o

I assume you mean this year. Unlike everyone on the Monaghan team who have been truly tested so far?

Yes, finishing third in Division 1 and running the league champions to a point was a decent test. How much more difficult your Championship games to date were compared to ours... well, hard to call.

Page 2. Cute hoorism going on and no-one is saying anything  ;D

Word on the street is that match could be close to a sell out, with only terrace tickets remaining at this stage. I'd expect some to be freed up later in week with returns etc.

Team news expected on Thursday night, O'Rourke has made at least 2 changes to each named team so far this year, has Gallagher followed the same lead?

Was told at weekend that McBrearty has struggled badly to recover from his injury over last few weeks and is a big doubt but again, see the opening line and I'd expect many stories to circulate on his availability.

No tickets available online ATM so seems we on our way to a complete sell out. I don't think Gallagher has started the team named in any of the games so far in the championship making at least 1 change each game

Different stories going about up here on mcbrearty some saying he struggling others (including Rory Gallagher) saying the injury wasn't as bad as first thought and he be fit for the final

Quote from: donegal lad on July 14, 2015, 02:00:35 PM
No tickets available online ATM so seems we on our way to a complete sell out. I don't think Gallagher has started the team named in any of the games so far in the championship making at least 1 change each game

Different stories going about up here on mcbrearty some saying he struggling others (including Rory Gallagher) saying the injury wasn't as bad as first thought and he be fit for the final

Maybe the two managers will play McBrearty and Drew Wylie and see which one lasts the furtherest. Spice it up a bit.

Monaghan will not get caught out like last year. Before that game not many of us witnessed a defeat to Donegal, so complacency was definitely a factor in the flat performance.

For their part Donegal won't take us for granted, but we all know they expect to leave Clones with the cup.

It's a bit far out to be accurate, but the weather mightn't be a 'terra' on Sunday. This would suit us nicely.

Quote from: donegal lad on July 14, 2015, 02:00:35 PM
Different stories going about up here on mcbrearty some saying he struggling others (including Rory Gallagher) saying the injury wasn't as bad as first thought and he be fit for the final

I say we let Gollogly clatter into him early on and we'll soon see if he's fit or not!!!

Quote from: babarino on July 14, 2015, 05:23:01 PM
Monaghan will not get caught out like last year. Before that game not many of us witnessed a defeat to Donegal, so complacency was definitely a factor in the flat performance.

For their part Donegal won't take us for granted, but we all know they expect to leave Clones with the cup.

It's a bit far out to be accurate, but the weather mightn't be a 'terra' on Sunday. This would suit us nicely.

Still haven't got me feckin' tickets and I don't want to end up in the Blueshirt (Eoghan O'Duffy) stand like last year. Any help by private message would be great. Family ticket ideally - 2 adults, 3 children.

Donegal WON'T take you for granted, but we EXPECT to win?

What is that based on?

Quote from: Bingo on July 14, 2015, 05:22:30 PM

Quote from: donegal lad on July 14, 2015, 02:00:35 PM
No tickets available online ATM so seems we on our way to a complete sell out. I don't think Gallagher has started the team named in any of the games so far in the championship making at least 1 change each game

Different stories going about up here on mcbrearty some saying he struggling others (including Rory Gallagher) saying the injury wasn't as bad as first thought and he be fit for the final

Maybe the two managers will play McBrearty and Drew Wylie and see which one lasts the furtherest. Spice it up a bit.

Decent odds that Wylie will be marking McBrearty - stick a special camera on them to see who survives longest.

Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2015, 06:42:04 PM

Donegal WON'T take you for granted, but we EXPECT to win?

What is that based on?

Based on the fact that you're considered a top 4 side in the country and you've won an All Ireland with more or less the same squad. Also Donegal have looked a lot better in the Championship to date than they were at this stage last year.

Won't take us for granted 'cause we're in better shape than we were last year. Yet to fire on all cylinders in this year's championship all the same.

Got my tickets through tickets.ie  8)

I would think, based on how we've matched up over the last few seasons,  that Monaghan are going in equally expecting to win.

Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2015, 08:18:21 PM
I would think, based on how we've matched up over the last few seasons,  that Monaghan are going in equally expecting to win.

I'd agree, and i'd be surprised and disappointed if the team / management were going into the game in any other frame of mind. There's absolutely no reason for either of these teams to be facing Sunday without the expectation of leaving as Ulster champions.

Quote from: Bingo on July 14, 2015, 12:45:55 PM
Word on the street is that match could be close to a sell out, with only terrace tickets remaining at this stage. I'd expect some to be freed up later in week with returns etc.

Haven't the last 2 years been a sell out? 2013 definitely was.

Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2015, 08:18:21 PM
I would think, based on how we've matched up over the last few seasons,  that Monaghan are going in equally expecting to win.

Expectation comes with confidence. Yes we're confident we can win it, but we haven't shown the type of form needed, to date in the championship. So it's got to be a big performance for Monaghan. Donegal have shown it.

Donegal won my admiration for the way they dispatched the Dubs last year, as much as their All Ireland win.

Thompson in particular did a lot of damage in the Ulster Final last year. We didn't match Donegal's energy all over the park.

Talking to my Ulster neighbours, outside Monaghan, this is how they read it. You're favourites on Sunday, for good reasons.

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 14, 2015, 09:34:55 PM

Quote from: Bingo on July 14, 2015, 12:45:55 PM
Word on the street is that match could be close to a sell out, with only terrace tickets remaining at this stage. I'd expect some to be freed up later in week with returns etc.

Haven't the last 2 years been a sell out? 2013 definitely was.

Donegal's support is fantastic. Can't recall ever meeting an obnoxious one, which I can't say for most counties, including my own.

We've got better. Not many of you will remember, when we hit the big time in 1979 and we didn't behave very well when we got to Croke Park, to take a tanking from Kerry.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=579269055545529 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=579269055545529)

Monaghan are ready!

Quote from: Bingo on July 15, 2015, 09:52:14 AM
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=579269055545529 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=579269055545529)

Monaghan are ready!

Great video. It's important the players enjoy the week before and not let the nerves get the better of them.

Living outside the county I'm missing the craic of the build up. Looking forward to heading 'home' on Saturday and a few settlers with the lads.

Quote from: babarino on July 14, 2015, 10:25:06 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 14, 2015, 09:34:55 PM

Quote from: Bingo on July 14, 2015, 12:45:55 PM
Word on the street is that match could be close to a sell out, with only terrace tickets remaining at this stage. I'd expect some to be freed up later in week with returns etc.

Haven't the last 2 years been a sell out? 2013 definitely was.

Donegal's support is fantastic. Can't recall ever meeting an obnoxious one, which I can't say for most counties, including my own.

We've got better. Not many of you will remember, when we hit the big time in 1979 and we didn't behave very well when we got to Croke Park, to take a tanking from Kerry.

Much and all as I would like to agree with you Babarino, I'm afraid we have some choice specimens amongst our supporters, same as everyone else.

I even witnessed two tanked up sons of Tirconaill rolling around on the pavement on the approach to Clones. Neither of them could stand up straight but that didn't prevent them making holy shows of themselves in their Donegal jersies stretched tight over ample frames.

We all have them I'm afraid.

Outside of McManus, and the 2 Hughes, Donegal have the better players, and i expect them to beat monaghan, not sure what sort of match it would be.

Tough one to call this. Donegal obvious favourites but if Derry can run them as close as they did then Monaghan can beat them. Family connections mean I will be cheering on Monaghan. Hughes for man of match - well there is 2 of them so my odds must improve!

I like monaghan people, I know quite a few and rank them very high

But I hate their football team

A/ They know how to beat us
B/ They're our reflection in style & tactics
C/ They're  f**king rough

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 15, 2015, 05:20:22 PM
Outside of McManus, and the 2 Hughes, Donegal have the better players, and i expect them to beat monaghan, not sure what sort of match it would be.

Hopefully it won't plumb the depths of the league game!

What was the score - 0-9 to 1-4 I think?

It will be defensive though (to state the bleeding obvious! )

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 15, 2015, 05:20:22 PM
Outside of McManus, and the 2 Hughes, Donegal have the better players, and i expect them to beat monaghan, not sure what sort of match it would be.

That would be a very bad match.

Quote from: J70 on July 15, 2015, 08:19:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 15, 2015, 05:20:22 PM
Outside of McManus, and the 2 Hughes, Donegal have the better players, and i expect them to beat monaghan, not sure what sort of match it would be.

Hopefully it won't plumb the depths of the league game!

What was the score - 0-9 to 1-4 I think?

It will be defensive though (to state the bleeding obvious! )

I'd take that scoreline and result again.

Purely in the interest of novelity, I'm going to take a stab at the Monaghan starting team that I think O'Rourke will start on Sunday:

Beegan
R Wylie
D Wylie (Just going out on a mad theory that if he is ready or close to it, he'll start, if not K Duffy and a reshuffle)
C Walshe
K O'Connell
V Corey
F Kelly
N McAdam
E Lennon
D Mone
D Hughes
S Gollogy
D Malone
K Hughes
C McManus

Quote from: Bingo on July 16, 2015, 10:11:42 AM
Purely in the interest of novelity, I'm going to take a stab at the Monaghan starting team that I think O'Rourke will start on Sunday:

Beegan
R Wylie
D Wylie (Just going out on a mad theory that if he is ready or close to it, he'll start, if not K Duffy and a reshuffle)
C Walshe
K O'Connell
V Corey
F Kelly
N McAdam
E Lennon
D Mone
D Hughes
S Gollogy
D Malone
K Hughes
C McManus

Very strong side.

Hard to know how this will go. Pressure is all on Donegal. Monaghan weren't that convincing over Fermanagh. Same could be said about Donegal over Derry.

Intriguing battle ahead.

I fully expect this game to be tight all the way with Big Dick coming on to swing it for Monaghan.

Quote from: Jinxy on July 16, 2015, 11:34:20 AM
I fully expect this game to be tight all the way with Big Dick coming on to swing it for Monaghan.

That would make for some headline in Monday's paper.


Big Dicks swings it !

Right, who's Farney on the Hoganstand! Posted my team but made one change - Finlay for Gollogy. And I know this because it is exactly set out the same bar that one change and like mine, starts with just Beegan as apposed to R Beegan. The rest of the players got their first name initials included.   >:(

I read in the IT that Donegal are up to their old spying tricks.
Jim McGuinness in a marathon ramble in the IT,
"I heard during the week that Monaghan were playing 15 versus 20 in training matches and were filming it so they could study it afterward. Malachy O'Rourke knows what is coming down the track in the Ulster final next Sunday and needs to know that his players are practiced in coping with it. Being able to think and play your way through extreme pressure"

I suppose you could also read into that training exercise,  that it takes 20 Monaghan player to simulate the effect of 15 Donegal players in a match :)
No wonder Donegal are still red hot favourites at 1/3  to lift the Anglo Celt.

(http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/mug_baccus.jpg)

O'Rourke usually has a surprise up his sleeve in the team line up. I wouldn't have thought Carey would start against Cavan or indeed retain his place against Fermanagh. It wouldn't be unlike O'Rourke to start someone like Tommy Kerr in the final.

Quote from: Sleater on July 16, 2015, 05:59:38 PM
O'Rourke usually has a surprise up his sleeve in the team line up. I wouldn't have thought Carey would start against Cavan or indeed retain his place against Fermanagh. It wouldn't be unlike O'Rourke to start someone like Tommy Kerr in the final.

I'd like to see Owen Duffy start. He's a great talent, has an eye for scores, which he showed before a serious injury a few years ago. He's had a few run outs of late and I suspect he'd be well up for it.

Quote from: babarino on July 16, 2015, 06:42:28 PM

Quote from: Sleater on July 16, 2015, 05:59:38 PM
O'Rourke usually has a surprise up his sleeve in the team line up. I wouldn't have thought Carey would start against Cavan or indeed retain his place against Fermanagh. It wouldn't be unlike O'Rourke to start someone like Tommy Kerr in the final.

I'd like to see Owen Duffy start. He's a great talent, has an eye of scores, which he showed before a serious injury a few years ago. He's had a few run outs of late and I suspect he'd be well up for it.

I'd like to see him in too - had a good performance against Cavan and anyone who can take some of the pressure off McManus is worth a shot. I'd also like to see McGuinness get half a game. Hughes, McManus and one of those two in the forward line should yield some scores.

Forecast for Sunday isn't good with a lot of rain in prospect.

This will turn the game into even more of a dogfight & have the lovers of open football in even more of a tizzy.

Us Ulstermen, players & spectators,  will however relish the conditions & will look forward to seeing real men give it their all.

Bring it on.

The train from Bundoran will be packed for this one.

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 16, 2015, 07:54:02 PM

Quote from: babarino on July 16, 2015, 06:42:28 PM

Quote from: Sleater on July 16, 2015, 05:59:38 PM
O'Rourke usually has a surprise up his sleeve in the team line up. I wouldn't have thought Carey would start against Cavan or indeed retain his place against Fermanagh. It wouldn't be unlike O'Rourke to start someone like Tommy Kerr in the final.

I'd like to see Owen Duffy start. He's a great talent, has an eye of scores, which he showed before a serious injury a few years ago. He's had a few run outs of late and I suspect he'd be well up for it.

I'd like to see him in too - had a good performance against Cavan and anyone who can take some of the pressure off McManus is worth a shot. I'd also like to see McGuinness get half a game. Hughes, McManus and one of those two in the forward line should yield some scores.

Owen Duffy for Carey with Gollogly to come in. Agreed re McGuinness.

Clerkin/Finlay to come in for Lennon. I'd like to see him start but can't see him stickin with Gallagher/McElhinney for the full 74 mins..

Another lazy preview of the match from McStay on RTÉ Morning Ireland. He predicts a Donegal win, which is fair enough, but says Monaghan are "far too reliant on McManus." McManus is to Monaghan, what O'Donoghue is to Kerry, Brogan to Dublin - a stand out class forward. Many counties are fortunate to have one.

The same McStay that rubbished our chances of staying in Division 1.

I keep hearing how good Murphy has been this season but has he really been exceptional bar the Armagh game?

Tyrone he was a nonymous from play having been shackled by Justin McMahon and against Derry he was largely on the periphery

Quote from: DennistheMenace on July 17, 2015, 09:02:54 AM
I keep hearing how good Murphy has been this season but has he really been exceptional bar the Armagh game?

Tyrone he was a nonymous from play having been shackled by Justin McMahon and against Derry he was largely on the periphery

Wasn't his best game overall for sure, but the two 50+m points he hit from play were vital scores, especially the second one which put us three up in the last few minutes when Derry were dominating possession. And even in the Tyrone game, when McMahon literally had him tied up, he hit three difficult long distance frees late on which won the game.

Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2015, 09:22:15 AM

Quote from: DennistheMenace on July 17, 2015, 09:02:54 AM
I keep hearing how good Murphy has been this season but has he really been exceptional bar the Armagh game?

Tyrone he was a nonymous from play having been shackled by Justin McMahon and against Derry he was largely on the periphery

Wasn't his best game overall for sure, but the two 50+m points he hit from play were vital scores, especially the second one which put us three up in the last few minutes when Derry were dominating possession. And even in the Tyrone game, when McMahon literally had him tied up, he hit three difficult long distance frees late on which won the game.

So essentially he's been superb from frees which I wouldn't disagree with and was outstanding from play against Armagh? Just think there is far too much emphasis put on him and Donegal are far more a whole than the sum of their parts.

If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 09:58:25 AM
If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

If Murphy was playing a decade ago I'd say he would definitely be playing closer to goal and would largely be unstoppable in the style of games back then when top class forwards could express themselves on a weekly basis.

Quote from: DennistheMenace on July 17, 2015, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 09:58:25 AM
If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

If Murphy was playing a decade ago I'd say he would definitely be playing closer to goal and would largely be unstoppable in the style of games back then when top class forwards could express themselves on a weekly basis.

There seems to have been an evolution after an evaluation of Murphy's input. When Murphy played in the first year or two, he was played mostly on the square but over time he has come out more and more around the middle.

But I suppose you can afford that when you have lads like Mc Fadden and MC Brearty around.

Question is - if MC Brearty is injured and doesn't play on Sunday, where does Murphy go ?.

Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 16, 2015, 08:52:43 PM
Forecast for Sunday isn't good with a lot of rain in prospect.

This will turn the game into even more of a dogfight & have the lovers of open football in even more of a tizzy.

Us Ulstermen, players & spectators,  will however relish the conditions & will look forward to seeing real men give it their all.

Bring it on.

Yep, I for one can't wait to stand in the rain for 2/3 hours. Bring it on ::)

So our fellas are getting suited up by Tommy Bowes clothing range. White with a trim of blue obviously...

(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article9023724.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Rudd.jpg)

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 16, 2015, 10:27:41 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 16, 2015, 07:54:02 PM

Quote from: babarino on July 16, 2015, 06:42:28 PM

Quote from: Sleater on July 16, 2015, 05:59:38 PM
O'Rourke usually has a surprise up his sleeve in the team line up. I wouldn't have thought Carey would start against Cavan or indeed retain his place against Fermanagh. It wouldn't be unlike O'Rourke to start someone like Tommy Kerr in the final.

I'd like to see Owen Duffy start. He's a great talent, has an eye of scores, which he showed before a serious injury a few years ago. He's had a few run outs of late and I suspect he'd be well up for it.

I'd like to see him in too - had a good performance against Cavan and anyone who can take some of the pressure off McManus is worth a shot. I'd also like to see McGuinness get half a game. Hughes, McManus and one of those two in the forward line should yield some scores.

Owen Duffy for Carey with Gollogly to come in. Agreed re McGuinness.

Clerkin/Finlay to come in for Lennon. I'd like to see him start but can't see him stickin with Gallagher/McElhinney for the full 74 mins..

A lot depends on how much progress Lennon has made since his rusty performance against Fermanagh. Are not Monaghan fans just assuming Lennon will be fit enough to be up to this pace? I'd have a lot more confidence in Clerkin starting, he has always looked fit and sharp when he comes on, don't know about his stamina though.
Unfortunately Finlay has slowed a bit and errors are creeping in.

Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on July 17, 2015, 11:35:09 AM
So our fellas are getting suited up by Tommy Bowes clothing range. White with a trim of blue obviously...

(http://i2.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article9023724.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Rudd.jpg)

I would pay good money to see Monaghan arrive in Clones in suits like those :o :o :o

Not to derail the thread, but no one gave a bollocks about those suits until Ferguson ' s book came out five years later. I've never seen what the big deal was.

I say fair play to the Monaghan boys if they arrive like that! :)

More likely they'll look like this
(http://gifstumblr.com/themes/img/the-smurfs_203.jpg)

Brolly fairly accurate on Kieran Hughes http://t.co/jp9KILHCa1

Drew Wylie is named in the match day squad, as a sub, but I'd say will start ahead of Carey with Mone to go half forward. Paudie McKenna missing from the squad - any idea why?

Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 05:39:51 PM
Brolly fairly accurate on Kieran Hughes http://t.co/jp9KILHCa1

He wants K Hughes to learn from the likes of the Gooch? Sure he thinks the Gooch is a 'choker' 

Anybody going from Dublin to match on Sunday.
Lift needed.

Have teams been announced.

Quote from: JoG2 on July 17, 2015, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 05:39:51 PM
Brolly fairly accurate on Kieran Hughes http://t.co/jp9KILHCa1

He wants K Hughes to learn from the likes of the Gooch? Sure he thinks the Gooch is a 'choker'

Joe at his work again.

Haven't read too many predictions yet (very little press build-up for this game with most focus on Munster replay), but Canavan and Kevin Cassidy have gone for Monaghan.

Monaghan (SFC v Donegal): Rory Beggan; Dessie Mone, Vinny Corey, Ryan Wylie; Colin Walshe, Fintan Kelly, Karl O'Connell; Neil McAdam, Darren Hughes; Owen Duffy, Stephen Gollogly, Shane Carey; Dermot Malone, Kieran Hughes, Conor McManus.

Subs: Cian Mohan, Kieran Duffy, Conor Boyle, Drew Wylie, John McCarron, Owen Lennon, Dick Clerkin, Paul Finlay, Ryan McAnespie, Thomas Kerr, Paul Meegan.


What stood out most for me is the strength of our bench, relative to a few years ago. Nearly all the subs could reasonably expect to be called on at some point, whereas previously only a few were ever really in contention.

Not sure there's much point in commenting on the first 15. I wouldn't be surprised by a few changes in personnel and there'll definitely be positional changes.

I see Drew Wylie is named on the bench which leads me to suspect that he will start.

If the cruciate wasn't properly healed then it would be foolhardy in the extreme to use him at all so the fact that he is named would suggest to me that he is fit & will play.

How sharp he is could be another matter but time will tell.

It wasn't his cruciate.

Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

No Christopher Mc Guinness listed. He has looked impressive every time I've seen him.

I'd say the team that wins will be the side whose manager gives the best team talk in front of the camera. That seems to work.

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Didn't see the game. How so?

Donegal name the same line-up as that for the Derry game.

1. Paul Durcan
2. Paddy McGrath
3. Neil McGee
4. Eamon McGee
5. Ryan McHugh
6. Karl Lacey
7. Frank McGlynn
8. Neil Gallagher
9. Martin McElhinney
10. Christy Toye
11. Odhrán MacNiallais
12. Martin O'Reilly
13. Patrick McBrearty
14. Michael Murphy
15. Colm McFadden

Can't see too many switches before the game, unless Mark McHugh or Anthony Thompson come in for O'Reilly.

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 12:25:47 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Didn't see the game. How so?

Are you serious?
:D

Quote from: Main Street on July 19, 2015, 12:35:29 AM

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 12:25:47 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Didn't see the game. How so?

Are you serious?
:D

Clearly I'm missing something!

Never seen such a low key build up to an Ulster final.

Kerry/Cork seems to have sucked all the air out of the room but I hope we have a great game.

Sausage sandwiches packed, jersey fitted over ample frame & away we go.

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Don't tell me Monagahan have unearthed a James O'Donoghue!!!!

We're doomed, doomed :o :o :o :o

Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 19, 2015, 08:42:34 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Don't tell me Monagahan have unearthed a James O'Donoghue!!!!

We're doomed, doomed :o :o :o :o

Not going by his performance last night.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/07/statistical-preview-of-ulster-final/

Quote from: ONeill on July 19, 2015, 09:36:17 AM
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2015/07/statistical-preview-of-ulster-final/

6 or 8 graphs and 10 paragraphs that amount to , it'll be close !!

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 19, 2015, 09:08:40 AM

Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 19, 2015, 08:42:34 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Don't tell me Monagahan have unearthed a James O'Donoghue!!!!

We're doomed, doomed :o :o :o :o

Not going by his performance last night.

I was just going to say if your main man Mc Manus is as ineffective as O' Donoghue was last night you're in trouble.

Been trying to work out who i fancy in this one and in truth i can't really split them at all.  Draw anyone?

Quote from: beer baron on July 19, 2015, 10:10:28 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on July 19, 2015, 09:08:40 AM

Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 19, 2015, 08:42:34 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 18, 2015, 11:05:38 PM
Monaghan will take inspiration from Kerry's victory this evening.

Don't tell me Monagahan have unearthed a James O'Donoghue!!!!

We're doomed, doomed :o :o :o :o

Not going by his performance last night.

I was just going to say if your main man Mc Manus is as ineffective as O' Donoghue was last night you're in trouble.

Been trying to work out who i fancy in this one and in truth i can't really split them at all.  Draw anyone?

A draw would be a cruel irony, just when the  Ulster losing finalists  (for the first time) get an extra 6 days of space before the round 4 qualifier.

We had a rock hard team in the 1988 Ulster title winning side.

Here's how we effectively dealt with the swarm in those days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX2xS3_3rbQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX2xS3_3rbQ)

Any streams guys?

Banshee!

Martin Carney commenting on a Donegal match? Why? In Fact why is Carney a co commentator at all?

McStay must have the Sligo/Mayo gig!

Durkan is an important last line of defence for Donegal, great goalie.

never a yellow for McGlynn. disappointing to see McManus and Murphy so deep. Donegal setting an actual defensive wall and marking zones, not players. Good save from Durkan but a decent corner forward should be either to go on his weaker foot.

intense game, alot of turn overs and blocks but not a game for the neutraL

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 19, 2015, 02:19:41 PM
intense game, alot of turn overs and blocks but not a game for the neutraL

Michael Murphy takes out McManus and Carney says McManus ran in to him!!! What an idiot. He must som serious dirt on RTE to keep hs job as a so called "analyst"

Quote from: hardstation on July 19, 2015, 02:22:55 PM

Quote from: dublin7 on July 19, 2015, 02:22:29 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 19, 2015, 02:19:41 PM
intense game, alot of turn overs and blocks but not a game for the neutraL

Michael Murphy takes out McManus and Carney says McManus ran in to him!!! What an idiot. He must som serious dirt on RTE to keep hs job as a so called "analyst"

He did run into him!

Murphy didn't do anything wrong there. McManus was tracking his man and just ran straight into him.

2 brick walls here.

This is awful

Absolute utter boring painful dross.
Get rid of fcukn bandpass ..,.

Ulster senior chess final.

Shite game

Good kick pass and point there by Monaghan.

Someone needs to tell Donegal players thet can't score if they don't leave their own half. Horrible game to watch. Monaghan only team trying to play football.

James O'Donoghue man of the match so far.

Fascinating tactical game of chess

Half time has came at a good time for Donegal.

Donegal look tired.

The overlaps aren't coming for them.

Excellent half by Monaghan. Very controlled, very deliberate.

---

Looks like some people on this thread aren't actually watching the game. It's no enthralling but it is a good game of football.

This game is dung. Pure dung. Take the excitement of the the underdog putting it up to the favourite and what re you left with?

RTE have decided that the short kick outs, because they not contested, are not worth showing. Probably right but its a poor day when Martin "he has been eaten by a crocodile" Carney is more interesting than the game.

Is it illegal to kick the ball forward?

The highlight remains Spillane'sline about the poets.

Only one team wants this. 2013 all over again.  Donegal repeatedly running into traffic and being diverted into the corners to be dispossessed.  The two McManus points came from ridiculous turnovers as well.

Quote from: LCohen on July 19, 2015, 02:42:55 PM
RTE have decided that the short kick outs, because they not contested, are not worth showing.

It's the BBC NI camera lads doing the game - the one million and one crowd shots are a trademark of the BBC NI gaa football games.

Quote from: twohands!!! on July 19, 2015, 02:45:45 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 19, 2015, 02:42:55 PM
RTE have decided that the short kick outs, because they not contested, are not worth showing.

It's the BBC NI camera lads doing the game - the one million and one crowd shots are a trademark of the BBC NI gaa football games.

Yeah, they spent 30 seconds on the lad with a program on his head while play was on?

Fair enough re BBC but we aren't missing anything. Keeper puts ball down and kicks it forward on the ground the minimum distance. Unopposed defender picks it up and trunddles forward 30 metres.

How many of the kick passes (there have been about 9) have been made by a player who is not on the move?

Mick O'Connell is correct - the game should not be called football

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 02:49:10 PM

Quote from: twohands!!! on July 19, 2015, 02:45:45 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 19, 2015, 02:42:55 PM
RTE have decided that the short kick outs, because they not contested, are not worth showing.

It's the BBC NI camera lads doing the game - the one million and one crowd shots are a trademark of the BBC NI gaa football games.

Yeah, they spent 30 seconds on the lad with a program on his head while play was on?

Yup - if I was the GAA I'd be on to them about the sub-par coverage.
Do people want to watch the game or watch people watching the game?

Is there much of a wind blowing? Looks like Donegal have it this half.

Karl Lacey off  :o

Looks like the McHughs will be doing a lot of running into the Monaghan blanket!

For big men, they're well able to hit the deck

Monaghan's shot accurracy is very good, especially given they're under as much pressure as Donegal who are bombing everything wide.

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 19, 2015, 03:02:53 PM
For big men, they're well able to hit the deck

Ryan McHugh only has to see a tackler coming to hit the ground.  Only way Donegal look like scoring is from frees

The three scores for the second half from Donegal have come from the McHughs winning frees by running at the Monaghan defense!

Donegal could rob this one!

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 03:23:19 PM
Donegal could rob this one!

Theyve had all the play this half. If theyd brought their shooting boots theyd be ahead already

The two Mc Hugh's have done some diving for frees.

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 03:23:19 PM
Donegal could rob this one!

There's a lot to be said for a man throwing himself to the ground when touched.  I'd say refs give a free 80%  of the time.  It's a no brained really

Who mentioned a draw negating the two week gap? Very possible.

Monaghan have made hard work of this one, 5 points clear and missed a couple of points, let Donegal back into it

How was that a free?

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2015, 03:30:33 PM
How was that a free?

ridiculous

Clerkin  taken down.  Why didn't monaghan all mill in with the handbags and kill a few minutes a la Donegal? 

You'd wonder how Clerkin could throw himself so dramatically on the ground at his age.

Another poor ref. 2 mins for that free. neither it nor the previous one were even frees

That was awful close.

Big miss, wheres hawkeye now lol, McBreaty should have scored that one but Monaghan deserved it

When is Hawk Eye coming to the provinces?

Well done Monaghan.

Sad that the BBC don't know when the qualifier is. Not good enough.

Jez, I think the last McB effort was a point!

Not quite sure how only 3 mins can be added when Beggan was down for over 3 mins one occasion.

Better team won. But I'd still wager Donegal get further in the AI.

Does this result mean (if Mayo beat Sligo) that it's Donegal v Galway in the next round (as Donegal played Tyrone already)?

Donegal wont go too far with that tired looking inaccurate performance.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 19, 2015, 03:35:25 PM
Not quite sure how only 3 mins can be added when Beggan was down for over 3 mins one occasion.

Better team won. But I'd still wager Donegal get further in the AI.

[/b]

I don't know.  Donegal didn't fire in the semi or final.  The next game they'll have to prove they still have the fire in the belly

Monagahan by far the better team for 50 minutes did their best to throw it away.  Only for frees (some of them very soft) Donegal never looke like scoring from pllay. Think they got 1/2 points from play in 2nd half.  Looked a very tired/old team in the 2nd half.  Their lack of any options on the bench was a big disadvantage as well.

Crazy how Monaghan just collapsed in the last 20 minutes. Missed some easy chances to finish the game.  Donegal kicked some shocking wides in the 2nd half

Donegal didn't deserve to win. Very poor. Maybe they'll realise they can't play just as defensively.

Sickening.  Played poorly for 50 minutes,  but really should have rescued at least a draw there. Some appalling wides in that second half. Needed Hawkeye for that last one.

Hard to see us going much further now with the extra game and hard quarter final draw should we make it.

Congrats to Monaghan.  You really do have our number!

Quote from: galwayman on July 19, 2015, 03:36:44 PM
Does this result mean (if Mayo beat Sligo) that it's Donegal v Galway in the next round (as Donegal played Tyrone already)?

As far as I make it, yeah. On the back door thread someone posted a press release from Croke park saying that round four games will will avoid repeat games if at all possible.

Monaghan just about hung on at end however they won that game in the 1st half.

Is O'Rourke trying to jinx us? I wouldn't write off Donegal just yet Colm.

Hawkeye would have called that last effort wide  :D

Donegal will be kicking themselves at losing that game, a game they should have won handy in the 2nd half.
But if you take the 4 or 5 easy frees out of the equation Donegal were indescribably poor on the day.
Delighted of course with Monaghan winning but they just about held on to a winning position against a beaten docket, they will have a lot to improve upon to get past the 1/4 final.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 19, 2015, 03:44:58 PM
Is O'Rourke trying to jinx us? I wouldn't write off Donegal just yet Colm.

+1

Good test for Galway. These are the teams Galway need to be playing in Championship. In McHale Park?

Was that referee blind.

Fooled by players holding opponent's arm and falling to the ground

Murphy as usual flattered to deceive, he's simply not a marquee forward, and contributes little other than frees and the odd catch. When played out the field the game passes him by and he can only resort to constant cynical fouling and mouthing.

O'Rourke's gameplan was spot on, Monaghan were by far the better team despite the close scoreline.

Quote from: The Stallion on July 19, 2015, 03:55:08 PM
Murphy as usual flattered to deceive, he's simply not a marquee forward, and contributes little other than frees and the odd catch. When played out the field the game passes him by and he can only resort to constant cynical fouling and mouthing.

O'Rourke's gameplan was spot on, Monaghan were by far the better team despite the close scoreline.

Where were they in the second half?

Winning the game and toying with Donegal

Quote from: The Stallion on July 19, 2015, 04:00:55 PM
Winning the game and toying with Donegal

I'll look out for your expert analysis in future.

Good

Some great performances by Monaghan players, But I haven't seen Vinny Corey give such a relentless performance throughout a whole game,  running with the ball, tackling and after all that effort he was the cool head managing the time in the crucial last 5 minutes.

Hearty congratulations to Monaghan. Kingpins of Ulster and without a doubt they have the voodoo sign over us. Would have been undeserved if we had nicked a draw

Extremely disappointed with our performance. We looked as if we were surprised that Murphy and Gallagher were so closely marked. Noticeable that none of our lads seemed to want the ball when the draw was they for the taking at the end. Lots of questions about leadership to be answered.

Donegal need to play Murphy Full forward and keep him there, thats where he dangerous,

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 19, 2015, 05:20:15 PM
Donegal need to play Murphy Full forward and keep him there, thats where he dangerous,

Look at the damage O'Shea is doing against (an admittedly dire) Sligo in that position. Murphy would easily occupy 2 men in there.

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 03:35:11 PM
Jez, I think the last McB effort was a point!

I was behind that goal and I'm pretty sure it was wide alright. There was another one over the same post given earlier in the half as a point that looked wide from my position but we'll never know.

On the whole I think Monaghan just about deserved it but Donegal must be kicking themselves for the bad shooting.

A word on the carry on by one mcgee on mcmanus and to a lessor extent the other one on hughes. It was incessant abuse and is a real blight on the game. When the ref finally decided to intervene he books mcmanus as well - the usual cop out we see from refs week in week out.

Great win for Monaghan but given the way they ran out of steam in the last 15-20 minutes, I'd worry a little for them if they come up against Kerry in the semi-final.

Another wonderful provincial final occasion and it just shows what madness it would be to do away with them.

wides, wides, wides

congrats Monaghan

Dire game, par for the course for games involving these two sides.

Donegal choked hard. They lost to an old team who are simply not championsip material. A Dublin, Mayo or Kerry would have smashed Monaghan today. Donegal missed at least 10 EASY scores.

The total roasting McManus give McGee you think he keep his mouth shut!

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 19, 2015, 06:46:08 PM
Dire game, par for the course for games involving these two sides.

Donegal choked hard. They lost to an old team who are simply not championsip material. A Dublin, Mayo or Kerry would have smashed Monaghan today. Donegal missed at least 10 EASY scores.

What drivel!!

useless fact but i think the 2015 provincial winners are same as those exactly 30 years ago in 1985. if i'm not mistaken monaghan took kerry to a replay in the semis that year and a mayo player scored a cracking goal against the dubs.

Quote from: clarshack on July 19, 2015, 07:42:58 PM
useless fact but i think the 2015 provincial winners are same as those exactly 30 years ago in 1985. if i'm not mistaken monaghan took kerry to a replay in the semis that year and a mayo player scored a cracking goal against the dubs.

Another useless fact: in both 1955 and 1985 both All-Ireland semi-finals finished in draws and Kerry beat Dublin in the final. It's a Back To The Future thing, I think.

Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 05:42:17 PM
Great win for Monaghan but given the way they ran out of steam in the last 15-20 minutes, I'd worry a little for them if they come up against Kerry in the semi-final.

I'd worry a little for them if they come up against Tyrone in the quarter-final.

Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:47:39 PM

Quote from: clarshack on July 19, 2015, 07:42:58 PM
useless fact but i think the 2015 provincial winners are same as those exactly 30 years ago in 1985. if i'm not mistaken monaghan took kerry to a replay in the semis that year and a mayo player scored a cracking goal against the dubs.

Another useless fact: in both 1955 and 1985 both All-Ireland semi-finals finished in draws and Kerry beat Dublin in the final. It's a Back To The Future thing, I think.

ironically the Back To The Future reunion is being held this weekend in London lol.

Quote from: Blowitupref on July 19, 2015, 07:51:16 PM

Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 05:42:17 PM
Great win for Monaghan but given the way they ran out of steam in the last 15-20 minutes, I'd worry a little for them if they come up against Kerry in the semi-final.

I'd worry a little for them if they come up against Tyrone in the quarter-final.

I'd have Monaghan to beat Tyrone by 4-6 points, but to lose to Kerry by a similarly comfortable scoreline

Once Monaghan figured out that having six lads back on McBrearty doesn't work unless you mark him and the space in front of him they were the better team.

Donegal completely tied up the two Hughes brothers and McManus for half an hour. It'd be interesting to see how many times those three touched the ball in that time. Once McGee went in the book it freed up McManus a bit.

The all-out defensive tactics of both was hard to believe at times but Monaghan were able to break through when it mattered and Donegal couldn't.

I found it very strange how little ball was actually kicked in by both sides when their inside forwards were making runs. It seemed like a stick to the running game regardless of how obvious a pass was.

I'm not sure either will be a match for any of Dublin, Kerry or Mayo.

Finally, how did McFadden and McNialais stay on for so long? The former seems to have reverted to his 2014 form.

Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2015, 07:42:47 PM

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 19, 2015, 06:46:08 PM
Dire game, par for the course for games involving these two sides.

Donegal choked hard. They lost to an old team who are simply not championsip material. A Dublin, Mayo or Kerry would have smashed Monaghan today. Donegal missed at least 10 EASY scores.

What drivel!!

Missed the first 25 minutes, but what I saw of it, it was a very enjoyable game.

Quote from: screenexile on July 19, 2015, 07:42:47 PM

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 19, 2015, 06:46:08 PM
Dire game, par for the course for games involving these two sides.

Donegal choked hard. They lost to an old team who are simply not championsip material. A Dublin, Mayo or Kerry would have smashed Monaghan today. Donegal missed at least 10 EASY scores.

What drivel!!

96 posts and everyone of them negative drivel.

Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

That's very true, John Evans after we beat a poor down team in the league final was considered to be one of the best managers in the country, now he will do well to be kept on in ros. Donegal were poor today, but unlucky not to get at least a draw. McManus ate McGee, Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Media is always knee-jerk, as is the public discourse it drives.

What ever happened to the sledging "crisis"?

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 09:48:52 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Media is always knee-jerk, as is the public discourse it drives.

What ever happened to the sledging "crisis"?

I assume that was an extremely tough game for you to watch J70,  I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemies, never mind our Donegal brethren. Overall the game was played tough but fair enough and without histrionics.
Nevertheless, I would expect Donegal to make it to Croke Park  and possibly both Monaghan and Donegal will be looking for 1/4 final redemption against Mayo and Tyrone respectively.

Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2015, 09:43:44 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

That's very true, John Evans after we beat a poor down team in the league final was considered to be one of the best managers in the country, now he will do well to be kept on in ros. Donegal were poor today, but unlucky not to get at least a draw. McManus ate McGee, Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

The only team I don't think they'd ever beat is Dublin. Kerry would probably beat them 9 times out of 10 but outside those 2 they're a match for anyone

Quote from: Esmarelda on July 19, 2015, 08:50:18 PM
Once Monaghan figured out that having six lads back on McBrearty doesn't work unless you mark him and the space in front of him they were the better team.

Donegal completely tied up the two Hughes brothers and McManus for half an hour. It'd be interesting to see how many times those three touched the ball in that time. Once McGee went in the book it freed up McManus a bit.

The all-out defensive tactics of both was hard to believe at times but Monaghan were able to break through when it mattered and Donegal couldn't.

I found it very strange how little ball was actually kicked in by both sides when their inside forwards were making runs. It seemed like a stick to the running game regardless of how obvious a pass was.

I'm not sure either will be a match for any of Dublin, Kerry or Mayo.

Finally, how did McFadden and McNialais stay on for so long? The former seems to have reverted to his 2014 form.

McFadden in particular - couldn't believe how poor he was.
Corey did a great job on Murphy as well- kept him very quiet

Quote from: Main Street on July 19, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
96 posts and everyone of them negative drivel.

Your team won a provincial title today, go out and celebrate.

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Eamon Fitzmaurice is lauded as a tactical genius despite Kerry struggling hugely with Donegal's defensive system in last year's All-Ireland final and only winning due to a catastrophic goalkeeping error.

Quote from: Main Street on July 19, 2015, 09:56:56 PM

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 09:48:52 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Media is always knee-jerk, as is the public discourse it drives.

What ever happened to the sledging "crisis"?

I assume that was an extremely tough game for you to watch J70,  I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemies, never mind our Donegal brethren. Overall the game was played tough but fair enough and without histrionics.
Nevertheless, I would expect Donegal to make it to Croke Park  and possibly both Monaghan and Donegal will be looking for 1/4 final redemption against Mayo and Tyrone respectively.

I was extremely frustrated for most of it, but a bit happier, if ultimately sickened :p with the last fifteen when we finally figured out that the McHughs and other small forwards running at you might bring a bit of success. Just a shame it took so long. Better team over the whole game clearly won though.

And yes, it was nice to see an absence of bullshit and shoving!

I think we are up against it now in terms of reaching last four. Galway will be very tough,  before we even begin to think of Mayo!

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 10:19:38 PM

Quote from: Main Street on July 19, 2015, 09:56:56 PM

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 09:48:52 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Media is always knee-jerk, as is the public discourse it drives.

What ever happened to the sledging "crisis"?

I assume that was an extremely tough game for you to watch J70,  I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemies, never mind our Donegal brethren. Overall the game was played tough but fair enough and without histrionics.
Nevertheless, I would expect Donegal to make it to Croke Park  and possibly both Monaghan and Donegal will be looking for 1/4 final redemption against Mayo and Tyrone respectively.

I was extremely frustrated for most of it, but a bit happier, if ultimately sickened :p with the last fifteen when we finally figured out that the McHughs and other small forwards running at you might bring a bit of success. Just a shame it took so long. Better team over the whole game clearly won though.

And yes, it was nice to see an absence of bullshit and shoving!

I think we are up against it now in terms of reaching last four. Galway will be very tough,  before we even begin to think of Mayo!

Naw - galway needed serious help from the ref to beat a worse derry team than you've already beaten. You'll beat them easily.

Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2015, 09:43:44 PM
Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Aye right. Gonna quote you on that.

am i right that monaghan ultimately are in line to play kerry in the aisf.  i think they will have enough to reach the aif this year.  they were super...

Delighted with result today, although the last 20 minutes were tough on the nerves. Some great defensive work, but still plenty of room for improvement. If I was from Donegal i'd have been sick looking at the endless number of shots drifting wide, although i'm putting a lot of them down to having no options due to Monaghan's defence.

It's Tyrone next (sorry Sligo, I just can't see any other scenario), the winners to play Kerry. Monaghan really need to push on past the QF this year to show progress. Tyrone will be a tough test, but Monaghan are more than capable of beating them - and at least with playing Tyrone there should be no complacency.

No tour of the county with the cup, is what I'm hearing. We've got eyes on bigger days.

Our 2nd quarter today was excellent. Donegal shot a lot of wides in the 3rd.

4th quarter was poor from Monaghan. Clerkin should have been on 20 minutes out.

I was very surprised Big Dick wasn't brought in sooner.
A steadying influence was badly needed in the middle third.
Could have been very costly.

Quote from: straightred on July 19, 2015, 10:40:05 PM

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 10:19:38 PM

Quote from: Main Street on July 19, 2015, 09:56:56 PM

Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2015, 09:48:52 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
Five weeks ago Donegal were world beaters and lauded for their innovative style of football. Mayo were seen as being stale with no new players coming through and not in the top three. Today Mayo are seen as a team of real potential in the championship. While Donegal were seen as a tired team with no plan B. Kerry two weeks ago after being completely outplayed by a so called useless Cork team survived courtesy of a dodgy penalty and a hail Mary point! The reality is you are from here on is you are one game away from being World beaters or a game away from being useless!

Media is always knee-jerk, as is the public discourse it drives.

What ever happened to the sledging "crisis"?

I assume that was an extremely tough game for you to watch J70,  I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemies, never mind our Donegal brethren. Overall the game was played tough but fair enough and without histrionics.
Nevertheless, I would expect Donegal to make it to Croke Park  and possibly both Monaghan and Donegal will be looking for 1/4 final redemption against Mayo and Tyrone respectively.

I was extremely frustrated for most of it, but a bit happier, if ultimately sickened :p with the last fifteen when we finally figured out that the McHughs and other small forwards running at you might bring a bit of success. Just a shame it took so long. Better team over the whole game clearly won though.

And yes, it was nice to see an absence of bullshit and shoving!

I think we are up against it now in terms of reaching last four. Galway will be very tough,  before we even begin to think of Mayo!

Naw - galway needed serious help from the ref to beat a worse derry team than you've already beaten. You'll beat them easily.

2 weeks should be long enough for Donegal to find their mojo. This final was very different to the totally shattering 2013 game, this was mainly a sickener.
Where will the game against Galway be played?

Thought Monghan should never have left themselves in that nerve-jangling position near the end, which speaks to how superior they were for much of the match.

I think Monaghan have every chance of making the AISF this year and are exactly the type of tough and defensively sound northern team that have given Kerry so much trouble over the last decade. I can't see them being fodder for anyone.

Quote from: Syferus on July 20, 2015, 01:13:11 AM
Thought Monghan should never have left themselves in that nerve-jangling position near the end, which speaks to how superior they were for much of the match.

I think Monaghan have every chance of making the AISF this year and are exactly the type of tough and defensively sound northern team that have given Kerry so much trouble over the last decade. I can't see them being fodder for anyone.

2nd half, Monaghan's incursions into the Donegal half were few but should have had a point or two from those attacks.
I'd assume that the Monaghan plan in the 2nd half was to control the game by playing Donegal at their own game. Donegal are more effective when teams attack them but have a difficulty to play against the likes of themselves. Tactically just too rigid?
The situation today was similar to the 2013 final when Monaghan built up a comfortable cushioned lead in the first half and controlled the game after that.
Up to the 65th minute on sunday, Monaghan were a cosy 3 points ahead. McHugh began to have some effect for Donegal, but the real damage caused were the easy frees he and others won from a very benign Coldrick
Still plenty of room for improvement. and this is an experienced team. 7 from the 2007 final team were on the pitch today, 8 if you include Finlay who nearly came on as a sub.

Am I missing something with this game?

Monaghan for all their endeavour (with a very strong wind in the first half) were hanging on by the skin of their teeth for the last 15-20min against a Donegal side who peaked against Tyrone and Armagh.

Yet some folks have them comfortably dispatching Tyrone and then rattling Kerry after that.

Whatever about Monaghan v Tyrone (and I wouldn't call it on the basis of the first league match) Kerry in fourth gear would have far too much for Monaghan.

A big well done to Monaghan who managed to do a real number on our big name players. Never have I seen Murphy, McFadden, McNiallis, Toye, & Lacey so ineffective together in one game.

Monaghan also put us under big pressure when going for scores which resulted in 17 wides, again a first for Donegal.

I hope the Monaghan lads all had a great night!!

Quote from: tyroneman on July 20, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Am I missing something with this game?

Monaghan for all their endeavour (with a very strong wind in the first half) were hanging on by the skin of their teeth for the last 15-20min against a Donegal side who peaked against Tyrone and Armagh.

Yet some folks have them comfortably dispatching Tyrone and then rattling Kerry after that.

Whatever about Monaghan v Tyrone (and I wouldn't call it on the basis of the first league match) Kerry in fourth gear would have far too much for Monaghan.

You're missing something if you think there was a "very strong wind" in the first half. There wasn't.

And on what basis did Donegal peak against Tyrone and Armagh? Do you mean they had better performances against them? Do you see not think the opposition could have had an impact on how well Donegal looked in their various matches?

Very little mention of the Donegal management, what do the Donegal lads think of Gallagher and the way he set up the team? Would McG have made much difference?

Murphy quiet again, same with Tyrone and Derry game. He's had 1 good game in the Championship this year. Donegal still deserved the win I thought.

Well that was some day!

We were saying on the way to the game yesterday that, if we won, it wouldn't be able to match the feeling in 2013. But in a way it kind of surpassed it. Two years' ago we knew we had it won with a few minutes to go so we were in celebration mode and ready to go mad at the final whistle but yesterday was pure tension and anxiety right to the last kick of the ball. The way the Donegal crowd behind the goal cheered McBrearty's last effort and then the umpire waved it wide was not good for the blood pressure! It took a moment to recover from that before we could concentrate on our celebrations.

Malachy the genius once again got it spot on. Once we settled into the game after 10 minutes we were completely dominant for the rest of the first half. The team showed admirable patience and skill to hold possession, often for long periods, to wait for the right opportunity to work a score. It may not have looked pretty but it was a great ploy to bring both McManus and Kieran Hughes out the field in the first half to get them on the ball as Malachy knew they'd be suffocated and ineffective inside and often when you looked at our one man full forward line in the first half it was Fintan Kelly, Neil McAdam, Kieran Duffy or Eoin Duffy in there. Kieran Duffy's excellent point came from exactly that tactic. Then in the second half, when we had built our lead and Donegal were forced to push up and chase the game McManus went back inside where there was a bit more room and he got a good point in there. Donegal did get a run on us towards the end but that's what good teams do and had the game been two minutes longer then who knows how it may have panned out. But who cares about that this morning, the best team won.

Vinny Corey was excellent and did the job on Murphy that we have come to expect from him. Ryan Wylie was his usual tenacious self. Karl O'Connell and Dessie Mone carried the ball at Donegal all day and both got good points that their hard work deserved. Good to see Eoin Lennon back, how we have missed him! And of course there's nothing more to say about McManus that hasn't been said before. With Drew Wylie and Chris McGuinness still to come back we're in good shape heading into August.

To complete the day a most enjoyable night was had in Terry's last night in the company of the team and the Anglo Celt.

As an aside, and I know this is a debate for another day and another thread, but how could they ever take the Ulster Final out of Clones?  The whole day and setting was a fantastic occasion to be part of.

Great day, great win, great feeling. Up Monaghan!!!

Great day for the county. Went to the very wire and made everyone sweat but winning is all that matters and you take that any day.

Was very surprised at Donegal at times, particularly in second half. They came out like a team that had been told the wind was on their backs and shoot from distance. In first 5 mins of second half they done this at any chance and paid for it, aimless pot shots from some and snap shots from others like McFadden who should have done better.

I think the Monaghan defence aren't get much credit but they where superb throughout as a unit after a shaky start. Constantly working to close down in the danger areas, forcing the ball wide and out and getting a hand in at crucial times. Donegal had plenty of wide's but they got forced into them a lot of the time.

Donegal can look at themselves at not playing well but Monaghan had a big say in that. Corey on Murphy was brilliant, never left him when Donegal had the ball and then pulled him round the field when play broke up. Wylie, Mone and O'Connell ran constantly up the field and ensured Monaghan broke as one.

Monaghan will need and have another gear to go up. They will be disappointed with their own forward play at times - the two Hughes in particular very quiet, missed McGuinness to come into the game as well and they missed the only goal chance of the game. I couldn't believe Malone missed that, he is normally lethal from there, drops the shoulder and rounds the keeper.

No idea if the last wide was a point, was on side of it. Spoke to a few after it and they swear it was wide  :D Regardless, I was close to the last free that Donegal "won" to make it a 1 point game and it was never a free.

Happy days in Monaghan. No tour of the county today, so the lads can enjoy themselves today and back to the grindstone tomorrow.

Hit the Diff lads  :)

Quote from: babarino on July 19, 2015, 11:29:16 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2015, 09:43:44 PM
Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Aye right. Gonna quote you on that.

You already did. You just beat a Donegal team that was way over-trained by a single point, the same team kicked the game away. McManus is top class, one of the best in the country, however if he is double marked, Monaghan have nothing else. The management team deserve great credit for getting far more than the sum of the parts. Have a very bad habit of defending a lead instead of pushing on in a big game. By the way I honestly wish Monaghan well, small county like ourselves and all that.

One thing that got me thinking yesterday was the save by Durcan - surely it should be permissible for a keeper to lift the ball off the ground in one of the designated areas where he is likely to make saves.  Also, Darren Hughes should have saw black in the second half, referees are making a complete hash of the black card in general.

Quote from: Rudi on July 20, 2015, 01:06:56 PM

Quote from: babarino on July 19, 2015, 11:29:16 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2015, 09:43:44 PM
Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Aye right. Gonna quote you on that.

You already did. You just beat a Donegal team that was way over-trained by a single point, the same team kicked the game away. McManus is top class, one of the best in the country, however if he is double marked, Monaghan have nothing else. The management team deserve great credit for getting far more than the sum of the parts. Have a very bad habit of defending a lead instead of pushing on in a big game. By the way I honestly wish Monaghan well, small county like ourselves and all that.

McManus was double marked yesterday and didn't do too bad.

Went to my first ever Ulster final yesterday and throughly enjoyed the day. Great setting for a match and a wonderful atmosphere about for the whole day. On the match itself, well that type of game is certainly more enjoyable to watch live rather than on TV where you can see the options for the man on the ball and some of the shenanigans off it. However, speaking to a few people afterwards, they shared my view that it was like looking at soccer played through the hands. The tightness of the finish and the quality of some of the scores made it enjoyable overall but there was little intensity in much of the action and you'd not like to see football played like that regularly. I'll go again though!

Donegal subs yesterday

M O'Reilly for Toye (32)
A Thompson for Lacey (41)
D O'Connor for McFadden (52)
L McLoone for MacNiallais (69)

4th game in the championship and 4 subs once again and still no Donegal sub player has made a contribution on the score sheet.

A laboured looking Christy Toye got subbed right after getting ambushed by Ryan Wylie and then McManus scooped up the ball and hit the point that set the tone for the rest of the game.

Quote from: Rudi on July 20, 2015, 01:06:56 PM

Quote from: babarino on July 19, 2015, 11:29:16 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2015, 09:43:44 PM
Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Aye right. Gonna quote you on that.

You already did. You just beat a Donegal team that was way over-trained by a single point, the same team kicked the game away. McManus is top class, one of the best in the country, however if he is double marked, Monaghan have nothing else. The management team deserve great credit for getting far more than the sum of the parts. Have a very bad habit of defending a lead instead of pushing on in a big game. By the way I honestly wish Monaghan well, small county like ourselves and all that.

Where you're getting this over-trained theory from, who knows? You must have the ear of someone in the know. More likely it's just begrudgery. Not very convincing with the wishing us well at the end.

Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 10:31:16 AM

Quote from: DennistheMenace on July 17, 2015, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 09:58:25 AM
If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

If Murphy was playing a decade ago I'd say he would definitely be playing closer to goal and would largely be unstoppable in the style of games back then when top class forwards could express themselves on a weekly basis.

There seems to have been an evolution after an evaluation of Murphy's input. When Murphy played in the first year or two, he was played mostly on the square but over time he has come out more and more around the middle.

But I suppose you can afford that when you have lads like Mc Fadden and MC Brearty around.

Question is - if MC Brearty is injured and doesn't play on Sunday, where does Murphy go ?.

Monday's independent report -

Monaghan must have been delighted to see Murphy posted so far from their goal for so long. With Corey and some others crowding him at every turn, Murphy rarely got within striking distance of goal until late on when he was posted in a traditional full-forward slot.


Corey 3 Ulster finals holding Murphy scoreless is what's been said - technically correct but when Murphy is away out the field, happy days for the man that's marking him.

Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2015, 12:48:21 AM

Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 10:31:16 AM

Quote from: DennistheMenace on July 17, 2015, 10:05:19 AM

Quote from: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 09:58:25 AM
If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

If Murphy was playing a decade ago I'd say he would definitely be playing closer to goal and would largely be unstoppable in the style of games back then when top class forwards could express themselves on a weekly basis.

There seems to have been an evolution after an evaluation of Murphy's input. When Murphy played in the first year or two, he was played mostly on the square but over time he has come out more and more around the middle.

But I suppose you can afford that when you have lads like Mc Fadden and MC Brearty around.

Question is - if MC Brearty is injured and doesn't play on Sunday, where does Murphy go ?.

Monday's independent report -

Monaghan must have been delighted to see Murphy posted so far from their goal for so long. With Corey and some others crowding him at every turn, Murphy rarely got within striking distance of goal until late on when he was posted in a traditional full-forward slot.


Corey 3 Ulster finals holding Murphy scoreless is what's been said - technically correct but when Murphy is away out the field, happy days for the man that's marking him.

There's a wonderful photo of one of their tussles in the Indo match report (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/monaghan-beat-donegal-at-their-own-game-as-ulster-champions-dethroned-31387629.html) from a batch by an excellent sports photographer, Stephen McCarthy.

(http://cdn4.independent.ie/incoming/article31387687.ece/6738e/BINARY/donegal1.jpg)

Great to see Monaghan do it, hope they keep f**king about with Casement so the final is in clones for many years to come.

Monaghan really backed their defence - they let Donegal gain possession from their own kickouts, inviting them on, but were able to largely prevent them scoring. It was in complete contrast to the pressure Donegal put on Monaghans kickouts; you could see them sprinting up on their men to prevent the short kickout, and they got a lot of joy when Monaghan then had to kick the ball longer. You were never confident that Monaghan were going to win any of their own kickouts, and at times men seemed surprised it was coming to them; they'll certainly need to work something there.

On another note, it pisses me off to hear 'experts' harping on about how Murphy should be played closer to the goal - the same eejits would be saying he should have been brought out had he been in there surrounded by defenders. In either position, there's an element of robbing Peter to pay Paul, but I'm happy to defer to McGuinness and now Gallagher when it comes to where best to play him.

Quote from: haranguerer on July 21, 2015, 10:06:26 AM
Great to see Monaghan do it, hope they keep f**king about with Casement so the final is in clones for many years to come.

Monaghan really backed their defence - they let Donegal gain possession from their own kickouts, inviting them on, but were able to largely prevent them scoring. It was in complete contrast to the pressure Donegal put on Monaghans kickouts; you could see them sprinting up on their men to prevent the short kickout, and they got a lot of joy when Monaghan then had to kick the ball longer. You were never confident that Monaghan were going to win any of their own kickouts, and at times men seemed surprised it was coming to them; they'll certainly need to work something there.

On another note, it pisses me off to hear 'experts' harping on about how Murphy should be played closer to the goal - the same eejits would be saying he should have been brought out had he been in there surrounded by defenders. In either position, there's an element of robbing Peter to pay Paul, but I'm happy to defer to McGuinness and now Gallagher when it comes to where best to play him.

There was a discussion on the BBC panel about that but I thought it was considered discussion. Oisin's strong point was that at 5 points down, Donegal still had the same cautious defensive approach. McHugh said it was a difficult choice,  Oisin said what choice? lose by one or lose by 10 is all the same? McHugh replied that Donegal  did create enough chances with their approach in the 2nd half, but just missed them.
Both arguments had merit, but bear in mind Donegal still had Murphy collecting the short pass from his goalkeeper late on in the game, with Donegal still 3 points down.
Sometimes an image like that just sticks in the mind.

Donegal probably admired Armagh's self effacing tactics and decided to copy them.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338)

Very insightful from Jimmy, still a bit sickened.

I'm not saying he should be played out the field all the time, nor am I saying he should be played closer to goal all the time. My point is that it seems to be lazy analysis to blame Murphy being out the field as the reason Donegal lost. He'll be missed where ever he isn't playing, and now they've lost its easy to say this or that should have been done. But we have seen Donegal win big games where he has been out round the middle, are we assume these were despite this, or is it likely it was in fact a large part of it?

Quote from: The Subbie on July 21, 2015, 10:58:25 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338)

Very insightful from Jimmy, still a bit sickened.

Plenty of time for Jim McGuinness, but its not insightful. Explain the difference here, apart from in the language used:

'The Monaghan players were very successful in stifling that too and regrouped quickly around their own 45 and so forced the Donegal boys to play lateral passes, all of which made Donegal look ponderous on attack.'
'Once Donegal got back to their 45 to defend was when Monaghan really began to turn the screw. I counted double digit instances where they carried the ball up along the Gerry Arthurs stand side and they were right out about three metres from the sideline until they hit the 45 and then they turned and bounced the ball back and recycled it to the far wing. So they played keep ball just beyond Donegal's line of defence.'

He also says re Monaghan 'Interestingly, they sought to kick-pass the ball rather than hand-pass it, thus shifting the Donegal unit over and back the pitch.' Its not particularly true - they were kicking it when required across the pitch as they kept possession, they didn't go out of their way to do so.

Usual over analysis (of the wrong areas), but he does have to submit something, and it must have been difficult not having seen the game live.

The insight was as to how sickened he seems with the result.

Like I said , very insightful.

Quote from: haranguerer on July 21, 2015, 11:13:32 AM

Quote from: The Subbie on July 21, 2015, 10:58:25 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338)

Very insightful from Jimmy, still a bit sickened.

Plenty of time for Jim McGuinness, but its not insightful. Explain the difference here, apart from in the language used:

'The Monaghan players were very successful in stifling that too and regrouped quickly around their own 45 and so forced the Donegal boys to play lateral passes, all of which made Donegal look ponderous on attack.'
'Once Donegal got back to their 45 to defend was when Monaghan really began to turn the screw. I counted double digit instances where they carried the ball up along the Gerry Arthurs stand side and they were right out about three metres from the sideline until they hit the 45 and then they turned and bounced the ball back and recycled it to the far wing. So they played keep ball just beyond Donegal's line of defence.'

He also says re Monaghan 'Interestingly, they sought to kick-pass the ball rather than hand-pass it, thus shifting the Donegal unit over and back the pitch.' Its not particularly true - they were kicking it when required across the pitch as they kept possession, they didn't go out of their way to do so.

Usual over analysis (of the wrong areas), but he does have to submit something, and it must have been difficult not having seen the game live.

So Donegal lateral passing across the 45 is laboured but Monaghan lateral passing across the 45 is recycling to keep it away from the Donegal defence.
That is why he is the tactical Guru

I think Jimmy's article is a good tactical read on this game. He's a very articulate character, interesting to listen to. and you get a good bonus with quantity of words used.
I do note that there is more than just a hint of him damning Gallagher with faint praise, such as  the use of McBrearty as the lone target  was described as an "interesting strategy".  As well as  comments that the team were more  versatile and flexible last year, probably  implying that it was down to his legacy.
and he compares his team whose "game plan was predicated on overwhelming teams with defensive intensity" to this year's dumbing down  "they are calibrated to defend no further out than their 50".

But McManus' pat on McGee's chest after he scored that point just after the 30 minute mark, was not about a statement of intent as Jimmy surmises, it was more about a  satisfying gesture of one-upmanship against his over attentive marker.

What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 21, 2015, 05:02:55 PM
Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

I will await your expansion on his 'limited' analysis :)

Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 21, 2015, 04:31:18 PM
What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

Think the average age of the starting 15 on Sunday was about 26-27. Outside of Lennon, Dessie and Vinny everyone else was 27 or younger as far as i remember.

What age is Conor McManus?

Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
What age is Conor McManus?

Ask Neil McGee, he was in his pocket long enough on Sunday to have got a good look at his id  :D

Quote from: Gael85 on July 22, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
What age is Conor McManus?

26

Quote from: Main Street on July 21, 2015, 06:16:58 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 21, 2015, 05:02:55 PM
Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

I will await your expansion on his 'limited' analysis :)

I think Jim McGuinness is largely deserving of his reputuation, he clearly studies the game and tries to think about it in different ways, but I think this was one article he just pumped out.
Its already pointed out above that his point about Donegal being forced to play laterally across the 45 is greatly weakened by having to also point out Monaghan were forced to do the exact same thing, but one of the main tactical differences on Sunday, which doesn't get a mention and was the main factor in the shape of the game was the different attitude to kick outs - Donegal pushing up to put pressure on, Monaghan sitting back and inviting Donegal on.

Monaghan setup in a way very similar to Kerry did last year I thought. I'd worry abouit that as it indicates they haven't really learnt from that defeat.

There are also more gaps in Donegal's defense this year than there were last year. Every team has had goal chances against them which wouldn't have happened last year.

Very interesting to see how Donegal react to this. Will they begin to doubt themselves, their system, their new management team? A lot of them have been through the ringer in last number of years and doesn't seem to much pressure on many of them in terms of places on the team. Its well documented that they have a lot of miles on the clock.

This year they looked so good against Tyrone and Armagh but has been a decline since. Hard to put finger on it buts it more a missing spark as much as anything.

Everyone asking if they have peaked early in the season.

Will this defeat and the route they now face to win all-Ireland further dampen the spirits and belief in the squad.

I don't think it should and they'll have a lot to say in the outcome of the championship yet but its an early test of Gallaghers management.

Quote from: haranguerer on July 22, 2015, 08:43:51 AM

Quote from: Main Street on July 21, 2015, 06:16:58 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 21, 2015, 05:02:55 PM
Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

I will await your expansion on his 'limited' analysis :)

I think Jim McGuinness is largely deserving of his reputuation, he clearly studies the game and tries to think about it in different ways, but I think this was one article he just pumped out.
Its already pointed out above that his point about Donegal being forced to play laterally across the 45 is greatly weakened by having to also point out Monaghan were forced to do the exact same thing, but one of the main tactical differences on Sunday, which doesn't get a mention and was the main factor in the shape of the game was the different attitude to kick outs - Donegal pushing up to put pressure on, Monaghan sitting back and inviting Donegal on.

That's not what McGuinness wrote, I don't know how you can interpret an effect of a game plan, playing laterally, was the actual game plan.

Here is the essence of what he wrote about the  "2 game plans"
Donegal  "From the outset, Rory Gallagher decided to go with a one-man-up formation"
Monaghan "Defensively", "negated the long ball option into Patrick" "man marked inside and had a double sweeper, one on the left and one of the right of Patrick and then had everyone else marking their men"

Donegal " are calibrated to defend no further out than their 50".
Monaghan "played keep ball just beyond Donegal's line of defence" "it was about patience, steadily wearing Donegal down"
"excelled at not taking the ball into contact"
Monaghan  "knew what the Donegal boys would do. Asking a team (donegal) to adjust – to push out" which they couldn't do.

Are Mayo smart enough to bate Donegal?

Quote from: Schkite on July 21, 2015, 06:26:59 PM

Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 21, 2015, 04:31:18 PM
What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

Think the average age of the starting 15 on Sunday was about 26-27. Outside of Lennon, Dessie and Vinny everyone else was 27 or younger as far as i remember.

In terms of the squad Gollogly, Clerkin and Finlay would all be over 30.

Keeping as many of these over 30s around the squad could be crucial for the next year or two.

Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 21, 2015, 04:31:18 PM
What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

One thing about Donegal's squad is that a serious chunk of their key performers are over 30

Gallagher, Toye, Durcan, Eamonn McGee, Colm McFadden, Karl Lacey are all over 30.
In addition to being over 30, these lads have been soldiering with Donegal for a long time.

Also a couple of the younger lads in the Donegal squad pull down the Donegal age significantly.

2 of the subs Donegal brought on the last day were U21s - O'Reilly and O'Connor which sounds good but doesn't exactly say much for the  quality of the squad depth.

It's very hard to see Donegal not having an issue once those over 30s move on. They will still have some top quality players but the quality of the supporting cast will be key.

You'll Never Walk Alone... Monaghan style!
Had you a hand in this Bingo?!
http://youtu.be/SktFvJs8H24

Quote from: laoislad on July 22, 2015, 04:09:44 PM
You'll Never Walk Alone... Monaghan style!
Had you a hand in this Bingo?!
http://youtu.be/SktFvJs8H24

I can't claim any credit for that, a lot of the players after it claimed to be singing the Celtic version rather than the Liverpool one  :o

By all accounts it got another airing in Blayney on Monday evening from the same player and a few of the other players weren't caught shy when it came to doing a bit of singing on the mic either.

Are Monaghan really doing official engagements with the Anglo Celt and an All Ireland 1/4 final on the horizon?

How did Dublin, Kerry and Mayo's celebrations go?

Quote from: DuffleKing on July 22, 2015, 05:56:36 PM

Are Monaghan really doing official engagements with the Anglo Celt and an All Ireland 1/4 final on the horizon?

How did Dublin, Kerry and Mayo's celebrations go?

I wouldn't read too much into that. Unlike other years they have 3 weeks to the next day so its no harm to celebrate success before quickly moving on to the next challenge. Any player interview I've heard has been about how they won't over celebrate and how they have greater ambitions that an Ulster. its an amateur sport and they've had a great season so far  -they've every right to enjoy themselves.

Quote from: DuffleKing on July 22, 2015, 05:56:36 PM

Are Monaghan really doing official engagements with the Anglo Celt and an All Ireland 1/4 final on the horizon?

How did Dublin, Kerry and Mayo's celebrations go?

No. They went up on a stage (that was put up for a musical festival) for about 20min on Sunday night.

Quote from: DuffleKing on July 22, 2015, 05:56:36 PM

Are Monaghan really doing official engagements with the Anglo Celt and an All Ireland 1/4 final on the horizon?

How did Dublin, Kerry and Mayo's celebrations go?

It's nothing like the celebrations from two years ago. In 2013, the celebrations lasted for days and there was a parade through all the towns with the cup. As far as I know training resumed as normal last night. Sure McManus was down in Killarney early yesterday morning for the launch of the All-Ireland series and all the players are talking about going further than we have previously. The focus has already switched to the quarter-final and we've actually a week extra to prepare than two years ago. A few beers on Sunday night isn't going to change anything.