The Official Golf Thread

[thewobbler]

My feelings on pro golf is that the the format we've become accustomed to was organic rather than forced.

72 hole stroke play tournaments were deemed (by trial and error) to be the fairest way to determine a genuine champion. Eligibility is based predominantly on performance in similar events, with a ladder system for players to progress up the ranks through weaker events. Prize money largely determines just how many of the spots are taken by elite golfers. The absolute elite have their own side show at the end of the season to reward their prowess. The Ryder Cup provides a welcome sideshow for fish out of water golf, partly because it happens so rarely. And most of all, everyone understands that greatness is achieved by winning one or more of the four competitions that every elite golfer for the past 80 years has set their season around winning.

It all works as a system with minimal interference or change or marketing campaigns necessary, because it has arrived here organically.

And ultimately I think this is why LIV will be short lived. The changes to the format have been too drastic. The safety cushion provided to mediocre players means they'll never have any reason to improve. The need to play golf constantly in the USA (it's not just the key market, it's the market) means it will always be competing with a homegrown product. Non-golfers might be drawn initially to watch it. But i just can't see the current golf market being drawn to it.

[Orior]

I hope you're right Wobbler.

[stephenite]

And ultimately I think this is why LIV will be short lived. The changes to the format have been too drastic. The safety cushion provided to mediocre players means they'll never have any reason to improve. The need to play golf constantly in the USA (it's not just the key market, it's the market) means it will always be competing with a homegrown product. Non-golfers might be drawn initially to watch it. But i just can't see the current golf market being drawn to it.

I think it's a first step, and I tend to disagree with the point on playing constantly in the US. For me this will be an evolving model, which will eventuate in a World Tour of golf type of model - massive markets in Asia and Australia that simply don't get enough access to the professional game in comparison to the Northern Hempisphere.

If there's a world tour with an Australian swing, move up to Asia and a follow the sun type of model I think that's where it will eventually land - how long it takes and what damage is done is the only question in my mind

[trailer]

My feelings on pro golf is that the the format we've become accustomed to was organic rather than forced.

72 hole stroke play tournaments were deemed (by trial and error) to be the fairest way to determine a genuine champion. Eligibility is based predominantly on performance in similar events, with a ladder system for players to progress up the ranks through weaker events. Prize money largely determines just how many of the spots are taken by elite golfers. The absolute elite have their own side show at the end of the season to reward their prowess. The Ryder Cup provides a welcome sideshow for fish out of water golf, partly because it happens so rarely. And most of all, everyone understands that greatness is achieved by winning one or more of the four competitions that every elite golfer for the past 80 years has set their season around winning.

It all works as a system with minimal interference or change or marketing campaigns necessary, because it has arrived here organically.

And ultimately I think this is why LIV will be short lived. The changes to the format have been too drastic. The safety cushion provided to mediocre players means they'll never have any reason to improve. The need to play golf constantly in the USA (it's not just the key market, it's the market) means it will always be competing with a homegrown product. Non-golfers might be drawn initially to watch it. But i just can't see the current golf market being drawn to it.

I wouldn't be so sure. LIV isn't going anywhere. The idea that Golfers won't improve is ludicrous. If there are only 48 spots on the tour and a shit load of cash you can bet your bottom dollar guys will want to improve. The Stenson and Cam Smith defections are huge. Current Ryder Cup and Open Champions. There will be loads more. The Darts is a great analogy, no one watches BBC darts now.

[square_ball]

The Darts is a great analogy, no one watches BBC darts now.

BDO World Championship doesn't actually exist any more so definitely no one is watching it now! Good analogy all the same. You can't blame the players for going with the kind of money on offer. It will be interesting to see over the next few months what both tours will look like as we head into 2023.

Rory may be the last man standing on the PGA Tour. . .

[trailer]

The Darts is a great analogy, no one watches BBC darts now.

BDO World Championship doesn't actually exist any more so definitely no one is watching it now! Good analogy all the same. You can't blame the players for going with the kind of money on offer. It will be interesting to see over the next few months what both tours will look like as we head into 2023.

Rory may be the last man standing on the PGA Tour. . .

Ha! I didn't know that but kind of proves my point.

[Estimator]

News regarding Stenson has been confirmed, he has been stripped of the captaincy.

[Gmac]

News regarding Stenson has been confirmed, he has been stripped of the captaincy.

they should have their own version of the Ryder cup , should be plenty of players available from both teams

[screenexile]

News regarding Stenson has been confirmed, he has been stripped of the captaincy.

He does get €40m though so...

[thewobbler]

A few things.

There aren't as many parallels between darts and golf as one might think. Professional darts was on its knees then, as it was intrinsically linked to grass roots through the BDO. The WDC (which became PDC) was formed to make a career in darts a viable option. Yet the PDC didn't really prosper until it was agreed that BDO players could transfer in and out for tournaments; and therefore providing a ladder from the bottom to the top. That's when it stopped being exhibition darts, and became a touring global championship. The thing is, pro golf has had a touring global championship since forever. It doesn't actually need a new one, or a better marketed one. It has it. So unless LIV are going to develop a ladder system too, then it's going to struggle to come across as anything but an exhibition match.

Re one of the comments about "players will get better on LiV", this throws up two questions. One is simply "why?". Why would anyone work harder to improve when they're guaranteed annual and weekly payments regardless of performance. The second one is "how will we know anyway?". I mean the reason we know that Rory is among the very best golfers in the world is because he competed victoriously against the class of 2010-20, and is still doing the same now against every bright young thing being delivered by the college system.

Lastly. America IS the market. There might be bucket loads of money around the world but it's not golf money on the same way. Half of the world's courses are in the USA and half of the world's golfers are in the USA. That's where the real golf money is and is why the majority of PGA events are at home. Furthermore LIV'a riches might not be carrot enough is their tour is going to demand events around the world. Elite players aren't as fond of travelling as you might think. Most of them live in Florida for a reason.

[screenexile]

Fair points wobbler... the question for Team Europe now is who's the new captain. Do you want to come in as a backup to the man who was supposed to do it?

Not a good place for Team Europe to start mentally that's for sure but plenty of time to get things back on track if they get the right man!

Could they want a proven steady hand for this one?? Step up captain fantastic McGinley!!!

[Estimator]

News regarding Stenson has been confirmed, he has been stripped of the captaincy.

they should have their own version of the Ryder cup , should be plenty of players available from both teams

Sure the LIV lads are already in teams, with team captains:
Aces GC
Cleeks GC
Crushers GC
Fireballs GC
Hy Flyers GC
Iron Heads GC
Majesticks GC
Niblicks GC
Punch GC
Torque GC
Smash GC
Stinger GC

[trailer]

A few things.

There aren't as many parallels between darts and golf as one might think. Professional darts was on its knees then, as it was intrinsically linked to grass roots through the BDO. The WDC (which became PDC) was formed to make a career in darts a viable option. Yet the PDC didn't really prosper until it was agreed that BDO players could transfer in and out for tournaments; and therefore providing a ladder from the bottom to the top. That's when it stopped being exhibition darts, and became a touring global championship. The thing is, pro golf has had a touring global championship since forever. It doesn't actually need a new one, or a better marketed one. It has it. So unless LIV are going to develop a ladder system too, then it's going to struggle to come across as anything but an exhibition match.

Re one of the comments about "players will get better on LiV", this throws up two questions. One is simply "why?". Why would anyone work harder to improve when they're guaranteed annual and weekly payments regardless of performance. The second one is "how will we know anyway?". I mean the reason we know that Rory is among the very best golfers in the world is because he competed victoriously against the class of 2010-20, and is still doing the same now against every bright young thing being delivered by the college system.

Lastly. America IS the market. There might be bucket loads of money around the world but it's not golf money on the same way. Half of the world's courses are in the USA and half of the world's golfers are in the USA. That's where the real golf money is and is why the majority of PGA events are at home. Furthermore LIV'a riches might not be carrot enough is their tour is going to demand events around the world. Elite players aren't as fond of travelling as you might think. Most of them live in Florida for a reason.

There are finite spaces on the LIV tour unless things change. That in time will mean the best. But for the moment they just want to piss off the two tours, that's their key ambition. Paying some of these ballbags obscene money. Like Patrick Reed ffs. Even his own family hate him. It's like Joe Exotic's Zoo a bunch of misfits.

[screenexile]

As someone said what happens to the nomarks who are filling the gaps at the minute once the big boys appear?? Is the money they're getting enough to sustain them when they're out?

[Gabriel_Hurl]

As someone said what happens to the nomarks who are filling the gaps at the minute once the big boys appear?? Is the money they're getting enough to sustain them when they're out?

back off to the Asian/Euro tour