Murder of Aisling Murphy

[HokeyPokey]

Plus not all attention is unwanted.

So these women are all full of shit?

No, but you only have to open Instagram etc. to see that there are a lot of women who want attention.

There's people of both sexes who seek attention. But what has that got to do with men harassing and being violent towards women? What is the point you are making?

I think the point is that you cannot pigeon-hole all men into one box, and you also cannot pigeon-hole all women into one box. By way of example, I believe that there are women who love attention and there are those that do not.

Yes. I agree, but how is that point relevant? How does certain women liking attention have anything to do with harassment and violence against women?

[RedHand88]

I'm deleting the Internet and going to live up a mountain.

[HokeyPokey]

It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.

Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.

It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer.  It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.

There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.

You shouldn't be trying to minimise. Pointing out that we will never get to a point of zero violence, sexism, misogyny, is not a reason to not take action. Problems don't get solved with passivity and fatalism. Raising the issue forces people (mainly men) to reflect, it forces people and politicians to take action. One in five women have been raped in their lifetime. Forty-nine percent of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed. This is not unavoidable. There are many actions that need to be taken by governments and individuals.

[HokeyPokey]

It's all pretty fucked up. I think we are living in challenging times. We now have a generation that has grown up looking at porn from a young age, moved straight on to social media apps like Instagram and Snapchat, you have awful role models that young people look up to, garbage on tv like love island. All this combines into a misleading array of what is and isn't real life, what behaviour should be expected and is acceptable and how women and young girls should be treated. I know first hand from a girl I know who was able to rhyme off a load of lads I know who have sent unsolicited pictures, messages on social media, tried it on etc and these are men in their 30s. This might not directly relate to the horrendous attack on Aisling but there is still a conversation to be had with our young men.

Conversely I doubt there has ever been a safer time in the history of society to be female.

Yeah women are having a great time at the minute!!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1482817514241417218?s=21

I think we need to f**k up on this one it's struck a chord with a lot of women and they're demanding changes and they're right!!

That women from that account quoted is a pornstar/ OnlyFans account. Don't think she represents women at all. People like that are part of the problem.

I think the most pertinent fact here is that a man saw fit to stream a video of masturbation in an online vigil for a young woman who was murdered. I don't think we should distract from that by focusing on a bystander to that.

[Rossfan]

Right wing extremist filth showing their true hateful colours in Limerick

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40786386.html

[thewobbler]

It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.

Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.

It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer.  It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.

There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.

You shouldn't be trying to minimise. Pointing out that we will never get to a point of zero violence, sexism, misogyny, is not a reason to not take action. Problems don't get solved with passivity and fatalism. Raising the issue forces people (mainly men) to reflect, it forces people and politicians to take action. One in five women have been raped in their lifetime. Forty-nine percent of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed. This is not unavoidable. There are many actions that need to be taken by governments and individuals.

First up I'm not disagreeing with you. Any improvement in humanity should be encouraged.

But we are talking about half the population of the world. Or on more localised scales, half the population of country, county, city or town. And with no commonality among the half in terms of culture, tradition, education, upbringing or sexual persuasion. Their only clear commonality is that they have a penis i.e. are born of the one gender. And there is an oddity in that if a campaign was to focus on educating more specific group of loosely bound men - e.g all Catholic men, all Jewish men, all Irish men, all black men, all red haired men - telling them that they must do better, then that group face an uproar. But targeting "all men" is just too vague, too broad, too easy to ignore.

[trileacman]

It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.

Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.

It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer.  It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.

There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.

You shouldn't be trying to minimise. Pointing out that we will never get to a point of zero violence, sexism, misogyny, is not a reason to not take action. Problems don't get solved with passivity and fatalism. Raising the issue forces people (mainly men) to reflect, it forces people and politicians to take action. One in five women have been raped in their lifetime. Forty-nine percent of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed. This is not unavoidable. There are many actions that need to be taken by governments and individuals.

First up I'm not disagreeing with you. Any improvement in humanity should be encouraged.

But we are talking about half the population of the world. Or on more localised scales, half the population of country, county, city or town. And with no commonality among the half in terms of culture, tradition, education, upbringing or sexual persuasion. Their only clear commonality is that they have a penis i.e. are born of the one gender. And there is an oddity in that if a campaign was to focus on educating more specific group of loosely bound men - e.g all Catholic men, all Jewish men, all Irish men, all black men, all red haired men - telling them that they must do better, then that group face an uproar. But targeting "all men" is just too vague, too broad, too easy to ignore.

Agree with that sentiment. Of the women in Ireland who were murdered in the last 3 years a disproportionately high amount were murdered by non-nationals. The stats were in the Irish times today. Yet no-one and I include myself in that would dare to suggest it's the non-nationals who are the problem or the danger here. So why has this descended into a men v women argument across social media?

The attacks and deaths were so varied and incomparable that describing it as a issue with patriarchal or men's role is society is simply just incorrect. For example one was the murdered suicide in lixnaw co Kerry where a 60 year old man killed his wife. Another was where a middle aged Mongolian women was stabbed outside the IFSC by a 15 year old boy. Another was the murder of a woman by her teenage son.

Collectively gathering up these deaths of women by men and ascribing their cause to a ingrained chauvinistic society is wrong in my opinion. Chauvinistic attitudes do exist, many women are challenged by sexist attitudes but I question the degree to which these attitudes contribute to premeditated murder.

[seafoid]

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1482730209312968706

[Armagh18]

Awful lot going on here and since it's a thread about the murder of Aisling Murphy I'm not going to wade in on the whole sexism/harassment/misogyny thing. Moderators can that talk be moved to a separate thread as there is a discussion to be had but this isn't the thread for it.

Back to the topic, I was in the Athletic grounds for the Ulster final yesterday and there was the lovely gesture of a minutes silence for Aisling before the game. 

[NAG1]

Yeah could we keep this one on topic for Ashling or other women who have suffered the same horrible untimely demise.

If someone wants to open another thread to discuss the wider issues that have flooded social media since the incident that might be more appropriate.

[Cavan19]

Fully agree with last two posts.

[seafoid]

There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ashling-murphy-murder-suspect-being-treated-for-injuries-he-could-not-satisfactorily-explain-1.4778075

 L

The Garda investigation into the murder of Ashling Murphy last night remained focused heavily on a man being treated for a variety of wounds in a Dublin hospital.

His DNA was being cross-checked against a DNA profile taken from the crime scene and forensic evidence on a mountain bike found there and believed to have been used by the killer.

Garda divers were also searching the Grand Canal at Cappincur, Tullamore, Co Offaly, yesterday looking for evidence, specifically a weapon, following Ms Murphy's murder last Wednesday at about 4pm. A facility in Co Offaly used by the public was also searched for a weapon at the weekend.

The suspect for Ms Murphy's murder, who has a partner and children, has been in hospital since last Thursday night. He had sustained a mix of wounds, some of which are believed to be self-inflicted and serious. The suspect must also be mentally assessed before being interviewed and it was unclear last night when those checks would be completed.

Gardaí went to the Dublin hospital after being alerted by medical staff that a man was being treated for serious injuries he could not satisfactorily explain. When initial checks were made, links to Co Offaly quickly emerged. While the suspect has spoken to gardaí briefly, he has not been arrested.

[RedHand88]

There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.

Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists

It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.

[JimStynes]

There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.

Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists

It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.

That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.