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Don't actually think I've spoken to anyone who is keen on this rule. For me it changes the game too much. Free flowing game, ball goes in, mark is called, entire game stops. I'm interested to see what the percentages are like for 'for' and 'against' and if anyone is happy with the rule, why?

The aim of it was 60 yards balls into the full forward line increasing high fielding, a throw back to 90s gaa. In reality it's 20m pop passes into a man's chest that stops the play and gets a handy score. Stupid rule.

Bullshit rule grossly unfair to defenders and as mentioned elsewhere, under todays rules does Canavan score the goal in 05 AIF or does Mulligan take a mark and handy point? But i'll say it again, first and foremost its an absolute kick in the balls to defenders who already have to play without any kind of offside type safety net afforded to other sports, the art of defending is sometimes losing the first chance to win the ball but getting back in position to apply pressure, dispossess etc. some perfectly good defending being punished

I dont know a single person who likes this rule.

Quote from: JoG2 on February 11, 2022, 12:59:43 PM
Don't actually think I've spoken to anyone who is keen on this rule. For me it changes the game too much. Free flowing game, ball goes in, mark is called, entire game stops. I'm interested to see what the percentages are like for 'for' and 'against' and if anyone is happy with the rule, why?

Would be for it as a player, extra dimension to attacks, doesn't have to come down from the clouds. Majority of players went through a bad run of defensive football that is now transitioning back to expansive football. Encourages man to man battle inside rather than 15 men camped inside the scoring zone.

Quote from: Mario on February 11, 2022, 01:16:53 PM
The aim of it was 60 yards balls into the full forward line increasing high fielding, a throw back to 90s gaa. In reality it's 20m pop passes into a man's chest that stops the play and gets a handy score. Stupid rule.

Horrible rule. You've hit the nail on the head. Even if someone does field a high pass, the play is ruined by the delay in taking a free kick.

A error by those in power to bring it in and need to get rid of it ASAP.

I like it. I think county teams have yet to really work adequately on it to their advantage.

Quote from: general_lee on February 11, 2022, 05:39:19 PM

Quote from: Mario on February 11, 2022, 01:16:53 PM
The aim of it was 60 yards balls into the full forward line increasing high fielding, a throw back to 90s gaa. In reality it's 20m pop passes into a man's chest that stops the play and gets a handy score. Stupid rule.

Horrible rule. You've hit the nail on the head. Even if someone does field a high pass, the play is ruined by the delay in taking a free kick.

Very few of these marks are the result of outfielding an opponent in a contested situation. most are chest high balls to men in space. The reward to the forward is too great IMO

Quote from: jmk on February 11, 2022, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: general_lee on February 11, 2022, 05:39:19 PM

Quote from: Mario on February 11, 2022, 01:16:53 PM
The aim of it was 60 yards balls into the full forward line increasing high fielding, a throw back to 90s gaa. In reality it's 20m pop passes into a man's chest that stops the play and gets a handy score. Stupid rule.

Horrible rule. You've hit the nail on the head. Even if someone does field a high pass, the play is ruined by the delay in taking a free kick.

Very few of these marks are the result of outfielding an opponent in a contested situation. most are chest high balls to men in space. The reward to the forward is too great IMO

How many of them are we seeing. I've seen plenty of matches without one happening. The problem is it's pretty difficult to execute the pass with the precision required. Shane Walsh had a brilliant 40 yard pass into an inside forward against Down and it resulted in a deserved score. Steelstown got 2 or 3 I think in the All Ireland intermediate final and those came about from great movement in the forwards and accuracy of pass. To me it's not really a massive issue as for most games I've seen you might get one or 2 maximum and it's not having a major impact.

Quote from: jmk on February 11, 2022, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: general_lee on February 11, 2022, 05:39:19 PM

Quote from: Mario on February 11, 2022, 01:16:53 PM
The aim of it was 60 yards balls into the full forward line increasing high fielding, a throw back to 90s gaa. In reality it's 20m pop passes into a man's chest that stops the play and gets a handy score. Stupid rule.

Horrible rule. You've hit the nail on the head. Even if someone does field a high pass, the play is ruined by the delay in taking a free kick.

Very few of these marks are the result of outfielding an opponent in a contested situation. most are chest high balls to men in space. The reward to the forward is too great IMO

This is it exactly. We have an ugly, interrupted spectacle as men are rewarded for executing very basic, unremarkable skills under little pressure.

And when you can win a free in the scoring zone with an easy short pass into a man in a pocket of space, why would you ever try to land a high ball in on top of your FF line? It encourages the type of conservative, low risk football that we all complain about.

It needs to go.

Bottom line.

Whatever the rule was introduced to do, it hasn't done it.

So change it. Or get rid  of it. But there's no reason to maintain it.

I've seen no improvement, in fact most players (in games I'm involved in) miss their free shot, I've noticed more quick frees to lads in better positions.

Quote from: thewobbler on February 11, 2022, 11:57:28 PM
Bottom line.

Whatever the rule was introduced to do, it hasn't done it.

So change it. Or get rid  of it. But there's no reason to maintain it.

This. I'm completely unsure as to what the problem was the mark was designed to fix. There is too much tinkering going on.

There was an incident tonight where a Fermanagh man caught the ball and McQuillan blew the whistle. So the Erne lad stopped to take the mark but didn't signal he was going to. McGeary was beside him and slapped the ball out of his hands after a few seconds for that reason. McQuillan moved the ball forward. McGeary remonstrated that yer man didn't signal it.

Was Joe correct?

Quote from: ONeill on April 16, 2022, 11:21:24 PM
There was an incident tonight where a Fermanagh man caught the ball and McQuillan blew the whistle. So the Erne lad stopped to take the mark but didn't signal he was going to. McGeary was beside him and slapped the ball out of his hands after a few seconds for that reason. McQuillan moved the ball forward. McGeary remonstrated that yer man didn't signal it.

Was Joe correct?

No.

Quote from: ONeill on April 16, 2022, 11:21:24 PM
There was an incident tonight where a Fermanagh man caught the ball and McQuillan blew the whistle. So the Erne lad stopped to take the mark but didn't signal he was going to. McGeary was beside him and slapped the ball out of his hands after a few seconds for that reason. McQuillan moved the ball forward. McGeary remonstrated that yer man didn't signal it.

Was Joe correct?

Yes.  You have to give the forward room to take 4 steps unopposed, otherwise it's a free kick.

Which is it then? 1 vote each so far

Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 17, 2022, 08:54:19 AM

Quote from: ONeill on April 16, 2022, 11:21:24 PM
There was an incident tonight where a Fermanagh man caught the ball and McQuillan blew the whistle. So the Erne lad stopped to take the mark but didn't signal he was going to. McGeary was beside him and slapped the ball out of his hands after a few seconds for that reason. McQuillan moved the ball forward. McGeary remonstrated that yer man didn't signal it.

Was Joe correct?

Yes.  You have to give the forward room to take 4 steps unopposed, otherwise it's a free kick.

4 steps yes, unless in the big square. Though I can't mind the incident

Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 17, 2022, 08:54:19 AM

Quote from: ONeill on April 16, 2022, 11:21:24 PM
There was an incident tonight where a Fermanagh man caught the ball and McQuillan blew the whistle. So the Erne lad stopped to take the mark but didn't signal he was going to. McGeary was beside him and slapped the ball out of his hands after a few seconds for that reason. McQuillan moved the ball forward. McGeary remonstrated that yer man didn't signal it.

Was Joe correct?

Yes.  You have to give the forward room to take 4 steps unopposed, otherwise it's a free kick.

If he didn't signal for the mark then mcgeary was right to tackle him surely as he wasn't aware thst he called for a mark.

Quote from: tyrone08 on April 17, 2022, 09:58:16 AM

Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 17, 2022, 08:54:19 AM

Quote from: ONeill on April 16, 2022, 11:21:24 PM
There was an incident tonight where a Fermanagh man caught the ball and McQuillan blew the whistle. So the Erne lad stopped to take the mark but didn't signal he was going to. McGeary was beside him and slapped the ball out of his hands after a few seconds for that reason. McQuillan moved the ball forward. McGeary remonstrated that yer man didn't signal it.

Was Joe correct?

Yes.  You have to give the forward room to take 4 steps unopposed, otherwise it's a free kick.

If he didn't signal for the mark then mcgeary was right to tackle him surely as he wasn't aware thst he called for a mark.

Incorrect. Smokin Joe is a rules ninja, pay heed

Quote2.12 Mark
The Referee shall award a Mark in either of the following circumstances:

(i) When a player catches the ball cleanly from a kick-out, without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the kick-out point.

or

(ii) When a player catches the ball cleanly on or inside a 45m line from a kick in play (i.e. not from set-play) delivered by an attacking player on or beyond the opposing team's 45m line, that travels at least 20m and without it touching the ground.

The following procedures shall apply:
(a) Free Kick
The player shall signify to the Referee if he is availing of the free-kick by immediately raising his arm upright and then taking the kick himself from the hands. The free kick
shall be taken from the point where the Mark is awarded except in the case of a Mark awarded to an attacking team inside a 13m line when the free shall be taken from
the point on the 13m line directly in line with where the Mark is awarded.

Once the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark', the Referee shall allow up to fifteen seconds for the player to take the kick. If the player delays longer than fifteen seconds, the Referee shall cancel the 'Mark' and throw in the ball between a player from each side.
Once the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark', the opposing players must retreat 13m to allow the player space to take the kick. If an opposing player deliberately blocks or attempts to block the kick within 13m, or if an opposing player impedes the player while he is taking the kick, the Referee shall penalise the opposing team by bringing the ball forward 13m, up to opponents' 13m line.
If the Referee determines that the player who makes the Mark has been injured in the process and is unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the player's nearest team mate to take the kick, but this may only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.
A score may be made from a free awarded for a Mark.

(b) Play on immediately
(i) In this circumstance the player may not be challenged for the ball until he carries the ball up to a maximum of four consecutive steps or holds the ball for no longer than the time needed to take four  steps and/or makes one act of kicking, hand-passing, bouncing or toe-tapping the ball.
(ii) If the Player is illegally challenged, a free kick shall be awarded to his team from  the point at which the challenge is made, and this free kick may be taken by any player on his team.

Exception:
(b)(i) and (ii) above shall not apply when a player opts to play on immediately from a Mark awarded in either the large or small rectangle

From the rule-book.

If the player doesn't signal that he is going to take the free-kick (by raising his arm) then section (b) the rules relating to playing-on apply.

If McGeary tackled him before the four steps or time for four steps elapsed it was a free kick.

The free kick should have been from where the challenge occured but could have been brought forward for dissent (especially if McGeary was remonstrating)

Based on the description, it sounds like McGeary doesn't know the rules relating to the mark.

Didn't know that meself now.

However, yer man stood still, like as if it was a mark. Can see how confusion arises.

Quote from: twohands!!! on April 17, 2022, 10:15:20 AM

Quote2.12 Mark
The Referee shall award a Mark in either of the following circumstances:

(i) When a player catches the ball cleanly from a kick-out, without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the kick-out point.

or

(ii) When a player catches the ball cleanly on or inside a 45m line from a kick in play (i.e. not from set-play) delivered by an attacking player on or beyond the opposing team's 45m line, that travels at least 20m and without it touching the ground.

The following procedures shall apply:
(a) Free Kick
The player shall signify to the Referee if he is availing of the free-kick by immediately raising his arm upright and then taking the kick himself from the hands. The free kick
shall be taken from the point where the Mark is awarded except in the case of a Mark awarded to an attacking team inside a 13m line when the free shall be taken from
the point on the 13m line directly in line with where the Mark is awarded.

Once the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark', the Referee shall allow up to fifteen seconds for the player to take the kick. If the player delays longer than fifteen seconds, the Referee shall cancel the 'Mark' and throw in the ball between a player from each side.
Once the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark', the opposing players must retreat 13m to allow the player space to take the kick. If an opposing player deliberately blocks or attempts to block the kick within 13m, or if an opposing player impedes the player while he is taking the kick, the Referee shall penalise the opposing team by bringing the ball forward 13m, up to opponents' 13m line.
If the Referee determines that the player who makes the Mark has been injured in the process and is unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the player's nearest team mate to take the kick, but this may only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.
A score may be made from a free awarded for a Mark.

(b) Play on immediately
(i) In this circumstance the player may not be challenged for the ball until he carries the ball up to a maximum of four consecutive steps or holds the ball for no longer than the time needed to take four  steps and/or makes one act of kicking, hand-passing, bouncing or toe-tapping the ball.
(ii) If the Player is illegally challenged, a free kick shall be awarded to his team from  the point at which the challenge is made, and this free kick may be taken by any player on his team.

Exception:
(b)(i) and (ii) above shall not apply when a player opts to play on immediately from a Mark awarded in either the large or small rectangle

From the rule-book.

If the player doesn't signal that he is going to take the free-kick (by raising his arm) then section (b) the rules relating to playing-on apply.

If McGeary tackled him before the four steps or time for four steps elapsed it was a free kick.

The free kick should have been from where the challenge occured but could have been brought forward for dissent (especially if McGeary was remonstrating)

Based on the description, it sounds like McGeary doesn't know the rules relating to the mark.

Cheers. It does seem confusing. If the player doesn't take the mark why should the defender have to wait 4 steps to make a challenge.

The defender has to watch for the mark then count the attacking player taking 4 steps before they can make a challenge. All this hast to be completed within a few seconds.

At least he was consistent with it. McShane rose to claim a mark but didn't claim for it and appeared to be playing on. The Fermanagh defender (number 6) tackled him and then either a free or mark was awarded. Fermanagh defender complained and free was moved up.

Interestingly I thought McQuillian played the advantage on a couple of marks as well which is obviously wrong because I couldn't see any obvious free on them.

In the Kildare v Armagh league game he let a Kildare player set up to take a free kick from the ground (indicating so) only to change his mind when the wind started up again. So it's clear he doesn't know at least one basic rule.

The simplest thing to do is abolish the "advanced" mark as the rule as quoted would need a years studying to operate it.
Keep it fir high fetches at midfield though.

Quote from: tyrone08 on April 17, 2022, 11:25:51 AM
Cheers. It does seem confusing. If the player doesn't take the mark why should the defender have to wait 4 steps to make a challenge.

The defender has to watch for the mark then count the attacking player taking 4 steps before they can make a challenge. All this hast to be completed within a few seconds.

You're confusing the mark and the free kick that can be awarded/claimed as a result of the mark. There is a "reward" for making the catch whether or not the player avails themself of the free.

In this case, the Fermanagh player fielded, Joe blew, the player didn't put hand up but stopped dead as if to take the mark.

If this is OK, then why put the hand up at all.

Once the ref blows, the players have to move away.

Regardless of him calling the mark, if the player raises the hand he has 15 seconds to play ball

So if the ref blows, and you don't raise your hand, how long have you before you can be tackled? If standing still.

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 09:16:41 PM
So if the ref blows, and you don't raise your hand, how long have you before you can be tackled? If standing still.

The time it takes to take 4 steps (if the mark is outside the penalty area)

Watched it back there. Joe moved it forward because of McGeary slapping it out of his hands. On the way to the new mark, McGeary put his hand up to tell Joe that yer man didn't show for a mark.

So, if the ref blows, as MR2 says, whether or not the man calls for it, you step away for about 2 secs?

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 09:32:23 PM
Watched it back there. Joe moved it forward because of McGeary slapping it out of his hands. On the way to the new mark, McGeary put his hand up to tell Joe that yer man didn't show for a mark.

So, if the ref blows, as MR2 says, whether or not the man calls for it, you step away for about 2 secs?

Or the time it takes for four steps or four seconds...? Either way McGeary knew what he was at

That's the thing. He did what I'd expect him to do. The Fermanagh man didn't claim the mark but stood still.

So if the ref blows the whistle, you are protected for 4 secs/4 steps if you don't signal it?

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 09:40:52 PM
So if the ref blows the whistle, you are protected for 4 secs/4 steps if you don't signal it?

Essentially yes.. and if the opposition player infringes that the free is given and brought forward and anyone can take it

Good to know that. Some handlin for a ref.

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 10:13:38 PM
Good to know that. Some handlin for a ref.

The key for the ref is to make sure it's 20m pass that the player is outside the 45, that it can be for defender and attacker that it's play on and be tackled straight (if he doesn't call a mark) away within the big square, if player is injured on taking the mark the nearest play can play the mark...

Probably some other shit i forgot

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 17, 2022, 10:30:54 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2022, 10:08:05 PM

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 09:40:52 PM
So if the ref blows the whistle, you are protected for 4 secs/4 steps if you don't signal it?

Essentially yes.. and if the opposition player infringes that the free is given and brought forward and anyone can take it

Are you saying the free is automatically brought forward for someone tackling during that 4 step no-mans-land period?

No, free from where the 'illegal' challenge has taken place. Abomination is how some on here have called this rule, sums it up perfectly

So Joe was wrong to move it forward when McGeary knocked the ball from the static player's hands cos he thought he hadn't signalled it?

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 10:43:32 PM
So Joe was wrong to move it forward when McGeary knocked the ball from the static player's hands cos he thought he hadn't signalled it?

It's not automatically moved forward, unless maybe verbals / obstruction?

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 17, 2022, 10:30:54 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2022, 10:08:05 PM

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 09:40:52 PM
So if the ref blows the whistle, you are protected for 4 secs/4 steps if you don't signal it?

Essentially yes.. and if the opposition player infringes that the free is given and brought forward and anyone can take it

Are you saying the free is automatically brought forward for someone tackling during that 4 step no-mans-land period?

If a player stops someone from taking a 'free' or a mark the ref can move the ball forward. Mcgeary was wrong to think a player has to raise his hand and if he doesn't (unless in square) he can tackle him, though when I watched it it wasn't a tackle he was just being a dick

To be fair, the Fermanagh lad had wee arms.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 17, 2022, 10:49:47 PM
It is moved forward if Joe thinks the Fermanagh man did signal and McGeary knocks the ball out of his hands.

If he didn't signal, and gets tackled in the 4 steps shite, it's just a free from there.

He then started telling Joe how to ref so he moved it forward, so it was either or. Only Joe will know.

If you infringe on someone within that 4 step/sec period then you're trying to slow play the mark, which is what he was at, so I've no problem in moving it forward

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 17, 2022, 10:58:53 PM
But that would be the wrong decision, by the rules. The penalty for such is that the actual free taker is allowed to take the kick.

I mentioned that, because the mark is cancelled and anyone can take the free, was he their free taker anyway?

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 17, 2022, 11:12:12 PM
But it is not automatically moved forward as you suggested it was.

And with good reason.

If I'm refereeing, if a player impedes a free or a mark on purpose and starts mouthing I'll bring it forward  ;)

Is it a mark if he doesn't signal it?

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 11:29:51 PM
Is it a mark if he doesn't signal it?

Refs will always blow the whistle if a pass from outside the 45m, travels more than 20m and is caught by a player, its then up to that player if its a mark or not by signalling. I'm not sure if this is a wind up or not  ;D.. Though with some of the rules, you never know

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 10:53:15 PM
To be fair, the Fermanagh lad had wee arms.

During a game, unless a player signals he is taking the 'mark', its pretty much game on re a defender putting in a tackle / hand (which is against the rules). I don't think I've seen a defender standing off for 4 steps  / the time to take 4 steps at a club or county game since the rule came in tbh.

So are you saying that the ref's whistle buys you 4 secs. If you raise the hand, you have an extra 10 secs?

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 11:29:51 PM
Is it a mark if he doesn't signal it?

Again the ref blows or should blow for each mark. Totally up to player to call though but sure there are stranger rules not being called or players not knowing them

Quote from: ONeill on April 17, 2022, 11:42:24 PM
So are you saying that the ref's whistle buys you 4 secs. If you raise the hand, you have an extra 10 secs?

Yes and no. No hand up, 4 secs / 4 steps. Hand goes up, 15 secs to take a free. I'm away to bed, head pickled. Who'd be a ref??

I doubt the mark Donegal got in 1st half of extra time was either outside the 45 or even went 20 meters

Went 20m but not sure if kicked outside the 45,

Not sure what he ended up with, but half way through the second half of todays club championship action, Michael Murphy had four scored marks from full forward for Glenswilly. This with a sweeper posted in front of him.

Wonder how many Clifford gets in club?

Quote from: J70 on September 04, 2022, 10:26:30 PM
Not sure what he ended up with, but half way through the second half of todays club championship action, Michael Murphy had four scored marks from full forward for Glenswilly. This with a sweeper posted in front of him.

Wonder how many Clifford gets in club?

The attacking mark works, stats show it. A better question would be would Murphy be at FF and would ball be kicked in in the donegal championship if there were no attacking mark?

There's a great photo of him with four boys marking him - I think he got a mark out of that.

Murphy is one of the best ever to play the game IMO.