Down Club Hurling & Football

[Johnnysboys]

Well Johnnysnoys, after your rant, how many of tonight's team would get on the Kilcoo team?

Are u seriously telling me that the two O'Hagan's, Liam Kerr, Peter Fegan, Guinness and Finn wouldn't get on their team then if more deluded than you realise.

[Johnnysboys]

3 x Johnstones, Kane, McEvoy, Dylan Ward, Ceilum Doherty not fit to play county football?

There's no difference in Derry and Down regarding player turnover. Derry haven't had the same group of players for anywhere near 8 years.

From 2006-2016 only Carlow (101) used more footballers than Derry (98) in that period. Down used 78 players in the same period. In 2016 & 2017 Derry used 71 players alone.

Derry played Leitrim in January 2020 in a league game, they last played Leitrim in 2017 before that, only 1 player played for Derry in both the 2017 & 2020 games.

9 of Derry's starting 15 in the 2019 Ulster defeat to Tyrone are not on this years Derry panel. Nor are 4 of the 6 subs used that day.

Gallagher is in his 3rd year now with Derry. You could argue they've had a consistent panel in that time - this was made much easier because of the last 2 short/Covid effected short seasons. And even still, Armagh beat Derry in Gallagher's first ulster championship match in 2020, 6 players used by Derry that day are no longer on the county panel.

You're argument there was complete muck! If Down appointed McGuinness, Laverty & Co, had 6 or 7 Kilcoo committing, and started training 4-6 weeks before Down did this year, you would be at the opposite end of the division 2 table. Derry got it wrong for years and ended up in division 4. If they hadn't of got a top manager in & didn't have Slaughtneil players(Rodgers, McKaigue, Cassidy, McGuigan) committing they'd be in the exact same place. The lessons are there.
[/quote]

3 Johnston's - absolutely not. Ryan is not county level and the young buck has an attitude bigger than his dad (if that's possible) and that's coming directly from a Kilcoo player. Dylan Ward - absolutely not. Can nullify a county player here n there in club games but when surrounded by county players he don't count.
Some players are unbelievable for their club but that don't make them automatic county players. Ward was tried and it didn't work.
So ur saying the Slaughtneil players are the mainstays - they won their first championship in a while in 2014 - that's 8 years ago you clown and makes my "muck" argument all the more true. These lads have stuck with the county process for a sustained period and now are getting their rewards. Oh and by the way why are they so important anyhow - they ain't the current champions in their county nor won't be for the next while.. Getting a "top manager" in - in a recent podcast even Gallagher himself admitted he got lucky with covid saving his job.
Laverty/McGuinness didn't get the job - they didn't start 6/7 weeks before they did - MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE..
Remember this board is about opinions - you have an obvious love in with Kilcoo players but they are far from the answer we are looking for..

[Mourne Rover]

While we have had a few tough nights in Newry over recent years, this was among the most frustrating. Fair play to Offaly for producing an outstanding effort in the closing stages but we were three points up with four minutes left, had possession and the wind behind us and still managed to lose. James must be ready to tear his hair out as we finally managed to get our kick out strategy right, with Kane's precision meaning that we possibly only lost one of them all night. McElroy, McEvoy and Gilmore are all brilliant young prospects, but, barring a miracle, the next part of their development will be in D3 and the Tailteann Cup.

[Smurfy123]

Down football is in a very bad place. How that game was lost is beyond me. Now that's not saying Down we're any better than Offaly but 3 points up with 3 to go it should be game over
Bringing McKernan on with 3 to go and playing him as a full forward was a strange choice
The big players have failed all year
Mooney
Barry O
McKernan
McParland
Burns
Poland


All experienced players who have been very poor

The younger lads leading the charge
Murdock
Kerr
Gilmore


Some lads in the middle just not up to it
Havern
Doherty
Guiness

[SamFever]

As that great from the past said earlier Ross , a one year gig for James and Co. Take a few months and appoint a Management team to get us out of Div3 and develop a team.

[Lloyd p]

3 x Johnstones, Kane, McEvoy, Dylan Ward, Ceilum Doherty not fit to play county football?

There's no difference in Derry and Down regarding player turnover. Derry haven't had the same group of players for anywhere near 8 years.

From 2006-2016 only Carlow (101) used more footballers than Derry (98) in that period. Down used 78 players in the same period. In 2016 & 2017 Derry used 71 players alone.

Derry played Leitrim in January 2020 in a league game, they last played Leitrim in 2017 before that, only 1 player played for Derry in both the 2017 & 2020 games.

9 of Derry's starting 15 in the 2019 Ulster defeat to Tyrone are not on this years Derry panel. Nor are 4 of the 6 subs used that day.

Gallagher is in his 3rd year now with Derry. You could argue they've had a consistent panel in that time - this was made much easier because of the last 2 short/Covid effected short seasons. And even still, Armagh beat Derry in Gallagher's first ulster championship match in 2020, 6 players used by Derry that day are no longer on the county panel.

You're argument there was complete muck! If Down appointed McGuinness, Laverty & Co, had 6 or 7 Kilcoo committing, and started training 4-6 weeks before Down did this year, you would be at the opposite end of the division 2 table. Derry got it wrong for years and ended up in division 4. If they hadn't of got a top manager in & didn't have Slaughtneil players(Rodgers, McKaigue, Cassidy, McGuigan) committing they'd be in the exact same place. The lessons are there.

3 Johnston's - absolutely not. Ryan is not county level and the young buck has an attitude bigger than his dad (if that's possible) and that's coming directly from a Kilcoo player. Dylan Ward - absolutely not. Can nullify a county player here n there in club games but when surrounded by county players he don't count.
Some players are unbelievable for their club but that don't make them automatic county players. Ward was tried and it didn't work.
So ur saying the Slaughtneil players are the mainstays - they won their first championship in a while in 2014 - that's 8 years ago you clown and makes my "muck" argument all the more true. These lads have stuck with the county process for a sustained period and now are getting their rewards. Oh and by the way why are they so important anyhow - they ain't the current champions in their county nor won't be for the next while.. Getting a "top manager" in - in a recent podcast even Gallagher himself admitted he got lucky with covid saving his job.
Laverty/McGuinness didn't get the job - they didn't start 6/7 weeks before they did - MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE..
Remember this board is about opinions - you have an obvious love in with Kilcoo players but they are far from the answer we are looking for..

No time for personal insults at all. Shameful

[Johnnysboys]

No time for personal insults at all. Shameful
[/quote]

No personal insults given - just opinion.

Would division 3 be so bad for us? I realise we are a proud county and all that goes with that but let's be honest no silverware of note in over 25 years at senior level is a poor return particularly when it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. Division 3, get young players on board, develop them, play Tailtean cup and get as far as possible to bring confidence to a group of players. We are sadly lacking that at present.

[Lloyd p]

No time for personal insults at all. Shameful

No personal insults given - just opinion.

Would division 3 be so bad for us? I realise we are a proud county and all that goes with that but let's be honest no silverware of note in over 25 years at senior level is a poor return particularly when it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. Division 3, get young players on board, develop them, play Tailtean cup and get as far as possible to bring confidence to a group of players. We are sadly lacking that at present.
[/quote]
You named names and talking about players and their fathers attitude?

[Walter Cronc]

Would the lack of success at St Colmans indicate not all is well in Down football? Abbey never produced but been a while since Colmans won anything of sort.

[wobbller]

  The rot set into Down Senior Football when Jim McCorry was more or less pushed.He had got us to Div1 and had a very bad day at the Office
in Wexford but the wise heads saw fit to agitate for his removal.Two relegations under Eamon Burns(RIP) a bit of an improvement and a promotion under Paddy Tally retaining our
Div 2 status during Covid but agitation again after a poor Championship performance saw his departure.But hey our County Officials look good with their fancy ties at Scors and in the various Provincial and National Committees yet our County saw fit to vote against Antrim having a home venue against Cavan in the Championship.We as a County are a laughing stock in the GAA world but we do the same sh-te all the time and get the same failures over and over again.Pathetic.

[wobbller]

Today's Irish News.
........................................................

I was forced out of Down job - McCorry

Jim McCorry breaks his silence over his bitter Down departure
JIM McCORRY has insisted his position as Down senior football manager was made "untenable" following a crunch meeting with the county management committee on Monday.

McCorry, who quit the job on Thursday after just one season in charge, rejected the Down County Board's statement that they were "100 per cent" behind him.

However, McCorry was far from convinced after Monday night's meeting with the Mourne County's top brass and felt he had "no choice" but to step down from the post.

Last month, the county's management committee sensationally recommended to county delegates to get rid of McCorry – but the clubs voted to retain their manager [22-20].

Speaking to The Irish News on Friday morning, McCorry claimed the way he was treated was more in keeping with the cut-throat culture of the English Premier League.

"I was left with no choice other than to leave the post," said McCorry. "The position had become untenable. At Monday's meeting, the county committee told me they were backing me "100 per cent".

"The people who were backing me "100 per cent" were the same people who didn't see fit to back me four weeks earlier.

"When I asked for the reasons why, I was told people had the right to vote the way they wanted. That really stuck in my craw."

Immediately after last month's narrow vote to keep him, McCorry felt his position was untenable, but after a period of reflection and with a certain degree of optimism entering last Monday's meeting, the Armagh native thought he could continue as Down manager and that the situation "might be salvageable".

McCorry had drawn up a two-year plan ahead of the crunch meeting in which the objective was to remain in Division One and win an Ulster title within that time-frame.

Unfortunately, McCorry remained unconvinced about his future as Down boss upon leaving Monday's meeting.

"I still thought it was salvageable if it was going to be the right discussion and the right rational look at how we improve the county set-up at senior level to challenge for honours, with a proper strategy in place going forward.

"From that perspective, I thought it would have been salvageable, yes."

McCorry added: "I went into Monday's meeting in a positive mind, hoping I was going to hear things other than the platitudes of: 'We're behind you 100 per cent and let's move on'.

"That wasn't giving me any confidence to be able to deliver the two-year plan without them putting hurdles in my way.

"It's okay saying to someone: 'We're 100 per cent behind you', but you really have to convince someone of that.

"I would have thought it straightforward for anybody to understand that the manager in my position would have needed a lot of convincing and a lot of support after what happened.

"For them to say: 'People had the right to vote – let's move on'. That's not the type of conversation that filled me with confidence. The trust and respect wasn't there."

"They had issues with the captaincy, issues with the management team and the fact I hadn't brought in a third selector, even though it was made clear to them that a third selector would be added this year to freshen things up.

"When I weighed it up in the round and when I was told by a very trusted person in Down who said: 'They're just waiting for you to trip up, Jim, and it'll all start again,' I thought: 'Why should I go through that for it to start up all over again.'"

He continued: "What annoyed me was that there was no discussion with county management about how we'd got up to Division One, how we lost the Division Two final with a man down, how we lost away to Derry [in the Ulster Championship] with a man down. There was no talk about any of that. It was just about the Wexford defeat and not having, in their view, the best players available for that game."

Curiously, the manager had to deal with questions from the management committee over who he picked and didn't pick on his panel and why some high-profile players who had decided to step down weren't persuaded to return.

"When I asked who were the best players in the county, the only reference was the players who had retired previously or weren't available.

"There was no mention of the fact that I had asked those players to stay on; I didn't push anybody out, I wanted them to be in the squad.

"They had made the choice not to be there... There were things asked in that meeting that were matters for the manager. The manager picks the panel. That's why you pick a manager for.

"I had the best players available who wanted to commit to Down. Maybe some people thought I should beg some players to come back to play for Down. But that's not really the way I see county football.

"I don't think modern-day county footballers should be begged to come back when they've decided they want to retire. And those players who didn't wish to play all had valid reasons."

For a variety of reasons, Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Kalum King, Dan McCartan and Ambrose Rogers stepped aside while illness prevented Marty Clarke from making a return to county colours.

McCorry, however, confirmed Gordon and Clarke had "already indicated they wanted to come back, and they were part of the playing panel for next year".

McCorry was given just seven months in the job. Faced with a daunting rebuilding job, he guided the Mournemen back to Division One before a controversial refereeing decision – the sending-off of Conall McGovern in the 37th minute - contributed to their downfall against Derry in the Ulster Championship.

In their All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to lowly Wexford, there were no redeeming features in the Down performance.

McCorry was also castigated for his post-match interview with The Sunday Game where he said Division One was the team's "priority".

The Down manager was disappointed with the way in which the interview was edited and how it was used by his detractors as a stick to beat him with.

Given his incredible success with Eoghan Rua, Kilcoo, where he won four club championships, McCorry was the stand-out candidate to succeed the outgoing James McCartan.

With the senior squad in dire need of fresh faces and with very little coming through the U21 ranks, it was a major surprise to see Down gain promotion to the top flight.

"The appointment committee knew exactly what I was going to do: there would be a new panel of players, a new way of playing, players would leave and we could expect an outcry with that.

"But I told the committee we would have to ride that out. They appointed me on that basis and now they ended up lambasting me for it. The problem with Down is that they look back at the past all the time."

Despite the bitter ending and truncated time in charge, McCorry doesn't regret taking the Down post.

"I loved the job the short time I was there," he said.

"I'd love to have done the three years. I really know the players now. I met some fantastic people and had some really great experiences. I'm not leaving with a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the players.

"We'd great supporters at our games as well. And I wouldn't be worried about the keyboard warriors, I'd be concerned with the genuine supporters. A lot of people wanted me to stay on but I wasn't able to.

"Next year, some of those players will be working with their third manager in 12 months. That sounds like something you'd hear in the English Premier League. That's down to the county management committee, not me."

"Don't get me wrong, not every player is going to be satisfied because you can only play 15. Players were taken off, players were more disgruntled than others. That's the way management is.

"The amount of time and effort I put into it was phenomenal. I'd taken early retirement in April and was virtually working at the Down job full-time."

Asked what he'd learned while in charge of his adopted county, McCorry replied: "A wise man that I would listen to said to me: 'Jim, why did you think you would be treated any differently when you saw what happened to Pete McGrath, Paddy O'Rourke and Ross Carr?'

"And my response was: 'I didn't think I would be treated differently but I thought I would get more than six months of playing time.'

"What I've learned is that there is going to be no comparison to that type of scenario again in the future. There are politics at the top level in the GAA that people scratch their heads at. There are politics with a small 'p' at club level that I've dealt with over the years, and that's fairly minor and easy to deal with.

"I suppose at county level it's hard to understand why people can't see a bigger picture rather than concentrating on the last result."

In thanking the players and his backroom team of Mark Copeland, John Morgan and strength and conditioning coach Ciaran Sloan, McCorry said: "This was something I didn't particularly want to do because I really enjoyed working with the players. I'd like to thank every one of them and my backroom team – Mark, John and Ciaran.

"Success this year wasn't just about going up to Division One, it was about trying to create a club atmosphere where all the cliques were removed and to play better football. So there was a lot of progression behind the scenes.

"That's going to start again whoever is going to come in. I wanted to make it work. I wanted to be the Down manager for another two years and to win an Ulster Championship."

And the future?

To take his wife, Roisin, on an long overdue holiday.

And football?

With a roguish grin, McCorry said: "I'm looking forward to being a spectator for a while, standing behind the wire and hurling a few stones at the manager!"

[Johnnysboys]

[/quote]
You named names and talking about players and their fathers attitude?
[/quote]

So u talking bout a certain ex Loughinisland keeper and a certain Rostrevor man in previous posts is fine... ok wasn't sure how this thing worked..

[GAABoardMod5]

You boys need to stop the childish posts.

Last warning to all posters.

By the way, it is ok to say Player A is not up to county standard if that is your opinion.  Such an assessment should be based on skill, attitude, recent history, age maybe, ability to be part of a team, and a host of other traits. Personality may be part of it, but I think we must leave that part of an assessment off this board. 

[Sandstorm]

Consider yourself reprimand Johnysboys. You obviously don't like Kilcoo but get over it, they are All Ireland Champions on merit. We would all like our club to be there but no justification to your pathetic jealousy. Positive posts in future please.

[rosskarr]

 Downjim in his latest guise gets another Yellow card from the Mods.