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GAA Discussion => Local GAA Discussion => Down => Topic started by: Betsy Gray on December 28, 2020, 11:46:00 AM

Title: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Betsy Gray on December 28, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
There has been a lot of talk in GAA circles recently about the dominance of Dublin and how a large reason for their success is simply a numbers game. Huge population leads to increased participation which leads to greater chances of success at elite level. There was clearly a huge emphasis placed on securing increased participation in the capital. A solution was proposed to solve that issue. While successful it has created a monster. A very successful monster.

Down currently has a massive participation problem on the County Down side of the River Lagan. I’m not just sure anyone realises it.

It is no secret that at present South Belfast has a rapidly growing nationalist population. For the sake of this thread I am talking only about the County Down side. The area from the Ormeau bridge to Carryduff and stretching eastwards towards Holywood.

For the past 10-15 years the streets around the ormeau road, Ravenhill Road, Rosetta, Four Winds has saw a huge increase in Nationalist population as people from across Ireland ( but mainly Tyrone, Derry, Fermanagh) have made the area their home. It is well publicised that the local primary schools are now struggling to cope with the numbers. Bredagh has clearly benefited greatly from this increase in population given the sheer size of their current enrolled membership.

Of greater concern to those of us concerned with the fortunes of Down GAA is the number of people not currently participating in Gaelic games at any level having made the area their home.

The main outlook of the County Board, and the GAA generally, should be to maximise participation is Gaelic games. As we have seen with Dublin, if you have the numbers participating the excellence should naturally follow on. At present the lack of participation by a large portion of the population in South Belfast is the elephant sitting in the corner of the Down County Office.

In doing some very basic research around this point I came across a 2015 document published by the Down & Connor diocese. It gave the number of enrolled Catholics in each parish. Now I know this is a very crude way to measure The GAA supporting population but it was the only rough reference tool I could find.

Broadly speaking there is a club for every 1500-1800 registered population. For example,

Loughinisland - 1416
Lower Mourne (Glasdrumman and Ballymartin) - 2874
Kilcoo - 1066

The one that sticks out from the group is Downpatrick with a population of 8768 and only one club.

Looking then at Belfast the scale of the issue becomes clear.

Holy Rosary & St Bernadettes which is essentially Bredagh territory has a combined population of 11557. Drumbo and Carryduff has a population of 9690. The parishes which are now more or less serviced by the East Belfast GAA Club are St Matthews, St Colmcilles and St Anthony’s. THe combined registered population there is 13,709. Until this year there was no club to provide an outlet for participation in Gaelic games in the latter 3 parishes.

The above numbers would have an added warning in that those living in the more rural communities are much more likely to formally register with the parish than those moving to live in the city. From what I have garnered so far most of those usually don’t register with the parish until children come along.

I would estimate that there are currently hundreds of young adults living in the south Belfast area who are currently not participating in Gaelic games at any level. A snapshot of the problem can be seen by the sheer number of people who transferred to the newly formed East Belfast club. I would be fairly certain that those outside Belfast would have laughed at the prospect of forming an East Belfast club until it was done.

It is correct that there are clubs in the area but the reality is that those clubs are now under subscribed. With the populations involved it is surely not acceptable that only 30 men take to the field each Friday night to play adult senior football with the same number of ladies taking to the field on a Saturday for the ladies senior league. Before someone says it, yes there are 2nds and 3rds but we all know it’s just not the same.

This is the greatest problem currently facing the GAA in County Down. The question is, does anyone have any idea about how to go about starting to fix it.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Sandstorm on December 28, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
Excellent post which certainly is thought and debate provoking g. Highlights a massive untapped potential in the county.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Mourne Rover on December 28, 2020, 01:28:50 PM
It is true that the GAA still has the potential for considerable further development on the southern and eastern side of Belfast, but the massive efforts which have already gone into expanding the Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's clubs should also be acknowledged. The new East Belfast club is attracting further significant numbers, many of whom are not from a Catholic background. If figures per parish are going to be compared, it may be worth noting that Lower Mourne does not only include the Ballymartin and Glasdrumman clubs but also Longstone.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Mourne Red on December 28, 2020, 01:43:15 PM
Might come across rude here but I don't mean to but what is the question of the post? Is it why aren't Down doing better with the population we have? Or is it about the lack of numbers of players within the club scene?
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 28, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
Surely this is Gaelfasts job partly
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 03:05:38 PM
Many more clubs in Antrim than down Belfast wise. Carryduff not in Belfast but at present I think they are improving massively. Huge numbers, county final and now a few county players so on the up. Bredagh starting to make a dent in the hurling too and now senior in the football so definitely improving.

I am interested to see how st Brigids improve too they have been competing year in year out at underage but just haven’t made any significant moves at senior level thus far.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: general_lee on December 28, 2020, 03:49:41 PM
How is any potential new club meant to muscle in on the two power houses that are Bredagh and Carryduff?. A look across the Lagan into west Belfast (a population greater than some counties) and they’ll tell you they’ve too many clubs. I say let east Belfast get established first
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 28, 2020, 07:52:32 PM
The question is, does anyone have any idea about how to go about starting to fix it.

One possible approach would be for the Belfast clubs (and Carryduff) would to have a sub-board for themselves - giving us (i) north Down, (ii) east Down and (iii) south Down.

Currently 4 clubs:
Bredagh
Carryduff
East Belfast
St Pauls

At U-15 and below, the four could hold blitzes every weekend - giving kids regular consistent gametime without having to travel up to an hour and a half down the road. Which places a massive burden on volunteer time, club finances or both.

Get player numbers up, player quality up and down the line, it may be that more clubs could be formed depending on catchments. That'd be something included in the north Down board's ongoing mission statement.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 28, 2020, 07:53:31 PM
Many more clubs in Antrim than down Belfast wise.

Antrim are a f**king joke. Between rows of country vs. city and hurling vs. football - they are best left to do their own thing.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: 6th sam on December 28, 2020, 07:59:16 PM
Might come across rude here but I don't mean to but what is the question of the post? Is it why aren't Down doing better with the population we have? Or is it about the lack of numbers of players within the club scene?
One ultimately leads to the other. Does anyone know What percentage of Gaelfast budget and resources goes to Down?
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Betsy Gray on December 28, 2020, 08:07:09 PM
Might come across rude here but I don't mean to but what is the question of the post? Is it why aren't Down doing better with the population we have? Or is it about the lack of numbers of players within the club scene?

Sorry if I didn’t make that clear Mourne Red. The point of the post relates to participation in Gaelic games generally in south & east Belfast. Of course it will feed into the potential quality of the Down senior teams but that would be a benefit to be reaped by the next generation of Down gaels. The issue for now is the significant amount of people living in these areas who are GAA people but are not currently involved.

The fact that East Belfast now have teams playing in all codes shows that the numbers are there. The East Belfast club have drawn their pool of players from people living in the area who were not involved with a club. None of the local existing clubs lost members to the new club. But for David McGreevy being brave enough to stick his hand up and start a new club the majority of those members would not be involved in GAA and quite possibly never would have been involved again in their lives.

I do not have any data to back it up but would hazard a guess that there would be 3/4 times the amount of unaffiliated players living in south Belfast as opposed to east Belfast. To answer one of the other posts, it wouldn’t be muscling in on Bredagh and Carryduff. It would in fact be helping to share the burden of providing the outlet to participate in Gaelic games in the area.

The west Belfast argument set out above is irrelevant. In fact it’s the opposite to the issue here. The playing population is falling in the west of the city simply because the west of the city is spreading outwards towards Lisburn and up the mountain. South Belfast has the opposite problem. It has a massively expanding Gaelic population with limited outlets for the provision of games.

The main aim of the original post was simply to generate a bit of discussion. There are a lot of ideas put forward on the ordinary thread about how to improve GAA within our county. Given that participation is key tapping into a ready made population should be high up the list of priorities.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 08:55:20 PM
Many more clubs in Antrim than down Belfast wise.

Antrim are a f**king joke. Between rows of country vs. city and hurling vs. football - they are best left to do their own thing.

[edit] I just realised this was in the down thread. Still a pig ignorant I’ll informed reply. Anyway as you were...

(Btw bredagh and carryduff making serious improvements. As per rest of Belfast though player retention key.)
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: marty34 on December 28, 2020, 09:28:31 PM
There has been a lot of talk in GAA circles recently about the dominance of Dublin and how a large reason for their success is simply a numbers game. Huge population leads to increased participation which leads to greater chances of success at elite level. There was clearly a huge emphasis placed on securing increased participation in the capital. A solution was proposed to solve that issue. While successful it has created a monster. A very successful monster.

Down currently has a massive participation problem on the County Down side of the River Lagan. I’m not just sure anyone realises it.

It is no secret that at present South Belfast has a rapidly growing nationalist population. For the sake of this thread I am talking only about the County Down side. The area from the Ormeau bridge to Carryduff and stretching eastwards towards Holywood.

For the past 10-15 years the streets around the ormeau road, Ravenhill Road, Rosetta, Four Winds has saw a huge increase in Nationalist population as people from across Ireland ( but mainly Tyrone, Derry, Fermanagh) have made the area their home. It is well publicised that the local primary schools are now struggling to cope with the numbers. Bredagh has clearly benefited greatly from this increase in population given the sheer size of their current enrolled membership.

Of greater concern to those of us concerned with the fortunes of Down GAA is the number of people not currently participating in Gaelic games at any level having made the area their home.

The main outlook of the County Board, and the GAA generally, should be to maximise participation is Gaelic games. As we have seen with Dublin, if you have the numbers participating the excellence should naturally follow on. At present the lack of participation by a large portion of the population in South Belfast is the elephant sitting in the corner of the Down County Office.

In doing some very basic research around this point I came across a 2015 document published by the Down & Connor diocese. It gave the number of enrolled Catholics in each parish. Now I know this is a very crude way to measure The GAA supporting population but it was the only rough reference tool I could find.

Broadly speaking there is a club for every 1500-1800 registered population. For example,

Loughinisland - 1416
Lower Mourne (Glasdrumman and Ballymartin) - 2874
Kilcoo - 1066

The one that sticks out from the group is Downpatrick with a population of 8768 and only one club.

Looking then at Belfast the scale of the issue becomes clear.

Holy Rosary & St Bernadettes which is essentially Bredagh territory has a combined population of 11557. Drumbo and Carryduff has a population of 9690. The parishes which are now more or less serviced by the East Belfast GAA Club are St Matthews, St Colmcilles and St Anthony’s. THe combined registered population there is 13,709. Until this year there was no club to provide an outlet for participation in Gaelic games in the latter 3 parishes.

The above numbers would have an added warning in that those living in the more rural communities are much more likely to formally register with the parish than those moving to live in the city. From what I have garnered so far most of those usually don’t register with the parish until children come along.

I would estimate that there are currently hundreds of young adults living in the south Belfast area who are currently not participating in Gaelic games at any level. A snapshot of the problem can be seen by the sheer number of people who transferred to the newly formed East Belfast club. I would be fairly certain that those outside Belfast would have laughed at the prospect of forming an East Belfast club until it was done.

It is correct that there are clubs in the area but the reality is that those clubs are now under subscribed. With the populations involved it is surely not acceptable that only 30 men take to the field each Friday night to play adult senior football with the same number of ladies taking to the field on a Saturday for the ladies senior league. Before someone says it, yes there are 2nds and 3rds but we all know it’s just not the same.

This is the greatest problem currently facing the GAA in County Down. The question is, does anyone have any idea about how to go about starting to fix it.

Got post.  Would you suggest anything club in that area but where at?

I think, as someone else alluded to, that the other clubs in the area are just getting together now (with serious hard work) but where would it go.  I suppose you're correct to a point, in that planning in cities is very important as they spread out.

Isn't their a club in Holywood (or Hollywood??)? Is that part of that catchment area?
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 28, 2020, 09:35:56 PM
Many more clubs in Antrim than down Belfast wise.

Antrim are a f**king joke. Between rows of country vs. city and hurling vs. football - they are best left to do their own thing.

[edit] I just realised this was in the down thread. Still a pig ignorant I’ll informed reply. Anyway as you were...

(Btw bredagh and carryduff making serious improvements. As per rest of Belfast though player retention key.)

I've played for clubs in both Down and Antrim.

Pig ignorant maybe, but its not an ill informed opinion.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 09:44:02 PM
I think it, now, is but no interest in derailing the thread.

Carryduff numbers are through the roof. How they build on last year will be interesting but they look to be on the up. Bredagh too - they look to have done it more through boys coming through the ranks than in previous times where it was a lot of guys from outside.

I am not convinced yet on east Belfast (but hope I am wrong). I think there is a good outlet for a club there but I guess remains to be seen whether they can build from the ground up or continually rely on imports though to begin with it has to be imports but the hope would be they start to help build from underage right through. If you look at st brigids who are to a degree a success(though still could be better) they just started from underage up then when the teams got to adult age or close started to enter in lower leagues. Dunno if that is better way to do it but good to see an outlet in east Belfast.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 28, 2020, 09:46:45 PM
I do not have any data to back it up but would hazard a guess that there would be 3/4 times the amount of unaffiliated players living in south Belfast as opposed to east Belfast. To answer one of the other posts, it wouldn’t be muscling in on Bredagh and Carryduff. It would in fact be helping to share the burden of providing the outlet to participate in Gaelic games in the area.

The west Belfast argument set out above is irrelevant. In fact it’s the opposite to the issue here. The playing population is falling in the west of the city simply because the west of the city is spreading outwards towards Lisburn and up the mountain. South Belfast has the opposite problem. It has a massively expanding Gaelic population with limited outlets for the provision of games.

So, for these other clubs, the obvious question would be... where?

Hydebank? Suitable for a club set up somewhere between Bredagh and Carryduff? But they will always be council pitches and the club will never be able to develop its own facilities.

The four winds? Could potentially buy land on the east of the Ballymaconaghy Road.

As you head north on the Knock dual carriageway, there isn't much. Hire ground off Campbell College? CIYMS?

You could fit a pitch on the old Sirocco works beside the Short Strand - but the cost of the land would be hideously expensive.



Probably the only one I see as having any potential for viability (at least in the next 20 years) would be at the Four Winds.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: 6th sam on December 28, 2020, 09:52:47 PM
The question is, does anyone have any idea about how to go about starting to fix it.

One possible approach would be for the Belfast clubs (and Carryduff) would to have a sub-board for themselves - giving us (i) north Down, (ii) east Down and (iii) south Down.

Currently 4 clubs:
Bredagh
Carryduff
East Belfast
St Pauls

At U-15 and below, the four could hold blitzes every weekend - giving kids regular consistent gametime without having to travel up to an hour and a half down the road. Which places a massive burden on volunteer time, club finances or both.

Get player numbers up, player quality up and down the line, it may be that more clubs could be formed depending on catchments. That'd be something included in the north Down board's ongoing mission statement.

With respect, if anyone is put off by having to travel from belfast to Kilclief for a well run East Down blitz in Kilclief on the shores of Strangford lough on a sunny Saturday, then they’re never going to stick it. GAA entails travel. There is no indication that Bredagh carryduff and St. Paul’s have any issue with the East Down board , so why add another layer of admin.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 28, 2020, 10:08:02 PM
With respect, if anyone is put off by having to travel from belfast to Kilclief for a well run East Down blitz in Kilclief on the shores of Strangford lough on a sunny Saturday, then they’re never going to stick it.

With respect, if parents are having to juggle commitments of several young children, the past-time that eats the most time is most likely to get sacrificed.

Its not the commitment of the player that is the issue at that age - its the player's parents.


GAA entails travel.

It does - but it doesn't have to at very young age groups.

Clubs cannot afford to run buses for frequent blitzes, too expensive. But they could run a bus for a minor team in an all-county league.
 

There is no indication that Bredagh carryduff and St. Paul’s have any issue with the East Down board , so why add another layer of admin.

I never indicated they do. Its a means of further localising fixtures at the younger age groups.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: DuffGael on December 28, 2020, 11:14:20 PM
A few points,  Carryduff and Bredagh know exactly the population in their area and are currently the 2 biggest GAA clubs, membership wise,  in the North.  Both are and St Paul's are involved in Gaelfast and I assume E Belfast  will become involved as they introduce juvenile teams.  Down have for years ignored us but the growing population is brilliant for us and the county. Both St.  Paul's and E.  Belfast have the potential to be were Carryduff and Bredagh are now in 20 years.  The potential for more clubs up here is strong too but they will come out of need not just be invented, it will be a long time before one is set up between Carryduff and and Bredagh for instance. 
There are still parents who bring their kids to play in Antrim even though they live in Down and that isn't going to change, same as kids live and play in different counties in and around Newry. 
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Mourne Rover on December 30, 2020, 12:37:30 PM
It is reasonable to have a discussion about expanding the GAA to the south and east of Belfast but some of the suggestions on this thread make little sense. The Four Winds area, which is not exactly a GAA heartland, has always been divided between Bredagh and Carryduff, with both benefitting from the arrangement through a nominal border along Newton Park. Attempting to introduce a third club there is not viable at any level, with the proposal that it could be based on Ballymaconaghy Road, which is little more than a couple of fields away from Carryduff's rapidly expanding complex, illustrating the point. Playing Gaelic games at the Hydebank pitches, beside Belvoir estate, is another non-starter, with previous attempts ending badly.  The logical way forward is encouraging the existing growth of Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's, with the new East Belfast club filling the gap between them. If East Belfast can find a permanent home, which is not going to be easy, there will be a decent platform for the development of the GAA at the northern end of our county.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: 6th sam on December 30, 2020, 12:50:31 PM
It is reasonable to have a discussion about expanding the GAA to the south and east of Belfast but some of the suggestions on this thread make little sense. The Four Winds area, which is not exactly a GAA heartland, has always been divided between Bredagh and Carryduff, with both benefitting from the arrangement through a nominal border along Newton Park. Attempting to introduce a third club there is not viable at any level, with the proposal that it could be based on Ballymaconaghy Road, which is little more than a couple of fields away from Carryduff's rapidly expanding complex, illustrating the point. Playing Gaelic games at the Hydebank pitches, beside Belvoir estate, is another non-starter, with previous attempts ending badly.  The logical way forward is encouraging the existing growth of Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's, with the new East Belfast club filling the gap between them. If East Belfast can find a permanent home, which is not going to be easy, there will be a decent platform for the development of the GAA at the northern end of our county.
Agree totally
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: delgany on December 30, 2020, 10:19:09 PM
Carryduff expanding their facilities - £200 000 from Community Landfill tax funds from Eastwood recycling @ Irish News
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 01, 2021, 04:03:10 PM
It is reasonable to have a discussion about expanding the GAA to the south and east of Belfast but some of the suggestions on this thread make little sense. The Four Winds area, which is not exactly a GAA heartland, has always been divided between Bredagh and Carryduff, with both benefitting from the arrangement through a nominal border along Newton Park. Attempting to introduce a third club there is not viable at any level, with the proposal that it could be based on Ballymaconaghy Road, which is little more than a couple of fields away from Carryduff's rapidly expanding complex, illustrating the point. Playing Gaelic games at the Hydebank pitches, beside Belvoir estate, is another non-starter, with previous attempts ending badly.  The logical way forward is encouraging the existing growth of Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's, with the new East Belfast club filling the gap between them. If East Belfast can find a permanent home, which is not going to be easy, there will be a decent platform for the development of the GAA at the northern end of our county.
Agree totally

Please note that the post you are talking about was in response to a post supporting the idea of additional clubs and itself was sceptical of the idea - noting that only one possible area of even potential viability existed!

It even led with the question:

Quote
So, for these other clubs, the obvious question would be... where?

There are no straightforward answers to expansion of number of clubs in Belfast.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Betsy Gray on January 01, 2021, 07:51:35 PM
It is reasonable to have a discussion about expanding the GAA to the south and east of Belfast but some of the suggestions on this thread make little sense. The Four Winds area, which is not exactly a GAA heartland, has always been divided between Bredagh and Carryduff, with both benefitting from the arrangement through a nominal border along Newton Park. Attempting to introduce a third club there is not viable at any level, with the proposal that it could be based on Ballymaconaghy Road, which is little more than a couple of fields away from Carryduff's rapidly expanding complex, illustrating the point. Playing Gaelic games at the Hydebank pitches, beside Belvoir estate, is another non-starter, with previous attempts ending badly.  The logical way forward is encouraging the existing growth of Bredagh, Carryduff and St Paul's, with the new East Belfast club filling the gap between them. If East Belfast can find a permanent home, which is not going to be easy, there will be a decent platform for the development of the GAA at the northern end of our county.

The points in relation to facilities, or to put it more accurately the lack of potential facilities, is definitely the greatest obstacle for potential new clubs.

What I do not agree with is the focus on geographical area. Urban areas, particularly cities, do not subscribe to the geographical rules which govern membership of rural clubs. The reason for starting the thread was not regarding additional clubs in a geographical sense it. The issue at hand is the number of players within the exiting catchment areas and whether additional clubs are needed within those areas to satisfy the demand for players seeking to play adult football.

In west Belfast it is common to have clubs basically on top of each other. In the case of St Paul’s, Rossa and Sarsfields their pitches sit side by side.

The GAA population in South Belfast is now huge. The population could easily sustain 5 clubs playing adult football on a Friday/Saturday night as opposed to the existing 3 clubs.

The lack of opportunity to play senior football is a problem that is seriously underestimated by the wider GAA membership in County Down.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: east down gael on January 01, 2021, 08:20:51 PM
The geographical rules that govern membership in Bredagh or carryduff are the exact same as the rules which apply to Annaclone or warrenpoint. And rightly so. Unlike the Antrim side of Belfast, there is a set catchment area for the down clubs.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: imtommygunn on January 01, 2021, 08:28:33 PM
Are you sure? Round where I live has bredagh and carryduff players. (St brigids too)
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: east down gael on January 01, 2021, 08:36:16 PM
Not sure where you live, but if you grow up on the ormeau road you’d play for Bredagh, and similarly if you grow up in carryduff you’d play for carryduff. If you have moved to the area from the country you could play for any of those teams I would have thought. But you could say the same for if you moved to newry.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: imtommygunn on January 01, 2021, 08:43:59 PM
South Belfast over towards shaws bridge. I don’t think these people are “blow ins”. One house, the carryduff one,  has been here for double figures of years. I know this as I know the da. The other house I don’t know the people but I do think they have been here a good long while. (I don’t know the st brigids people but there are kids with their jersies).
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: east down gael on January 01, 2021, 08:52:36 PM
You’re probably right at the border between the two clubs and maybe even saint brigids aswell. I’d say there would be plenty of streets in the four winds be the same,kids from the same street playing for different clubs. That’s to be expected with the two clubs existing side by side and more or less joined by new estates now.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: imtommygunn on January 01, 2021, 08:54:13 PM
I would say nearly equi distant from those three clubs.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 01, 2021, 08:57:14 PM
I think it, now, is but no interest in derailing the thread.

Carryduff numbers are through the roof. How they build on last year will be interesting but they look to be on the up. Bredagh too - they look to have done it more through boys coming through the ranks than in previous times where it was a lot of guys from outside.

I am not convinced yet on east Belfast (but hope I am wrong). I think there is a good outlet for a club there but I guess remains to be seen whether they can build from the ground up or continually rely on imports though to begin with it has to be imports but the hope would be they start to help build from underage right through. If you look at st brigids who are to a degree a success(though still could be better) they just started from underage up then when the teams got to adult age or close started to enter in lower leagues. Dunno if that is better way to do it but good to see an outlet in east Belfast.
The longevity of E. Belfast beyond being a cause celebre will rely on feeder schools. I don't know where they come from. I think it's great to see but it could easily become another Belfast Giants where everyone is going mad for it for a year or 2 and then thr novelty wears off. Anyone know the area well enough to suggest where their long-term pipeline of players come from? Especially as they have suggested that they actively want to see people from all backgrounds but the primary schools aren't going to promote Gaelic games.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: armaghniac on January 01, 2021, 11:53:55 PM
I think it, now, is but no interest in derailing the thread.

Carryduff numbers are through the roof. How they build on last year will be interesting but they look to be on the up. Bredagh too - they look to have done it more through boys coming through the ranks than in previous times where it was a lot of guys from outside.

I am not convinced yet on east Belfast (but hope I am wrong). I think there is a good outlet for a club there but I guess remains to be seen whether they can build from the ground up or continually rely on imports though to begin with it has to be imports but the hope would be they start to help build from underage right through. If you look at st brigids who are to a degree a success(though still could be better) they just started from underage up then when the teams got to adult age or close started to enter in lower leagues. Dunno if that is better way to do it but good to see an outlet in east Belfast.
The longevity of E. Belfast beyond being a cause celebre will rely on feeder schools. I don't know where they come from. I think it's great to see but it could easily become another Belfast Giants where everyone is going mad for it for a year or 2 and then thr novelty wears off. Anyone know the area well enough to suggest where their long-term pipeline of players come from? Especially as they have suggested that they actively want to see people from all backgrounds but the primary schools aren't going to promote Gaelic games.

There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 02, 2021, 12:04:40 AM
Integrated schools that arent supplying to existing teams?
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 02, 2021, 08:02:56 AM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 02:53:24 PM
Integrated schools that arent supplying to existing teams?

There could be such schools where some children play, because of their parents, but where others could be enticed in.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: johnnycool on January 04, 2021, 01:57:16 PM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.

Lagan College are a large integrated in the catchment area outlined. do they participate in Colleges gaelic games at all?

Bredagh are a large club in terms of catchment and in fairness to them they are a proper dual club from adult right the way down to the juvenile ranks so I'm sure there's an outlet for everyone to get game time at an appropriate level. That's a huge level of commitment from their volunteers and hurling wise you'll see the same faces along the line with more than one team.
They're a breath of fresh air in the hurling.

Carryduff dip in and out of the hurling underage wise and probably one of the main reasons they really haven't gotten going at adult hurling in a serious way, once again same faces along the lines with most teams and that's a big ask.

I don't think either are too big at all and compared to clubs in Cork and Dublin they'd be on the smaller side of members and I could see through it if they're lifting underage titles year on year across the board, but they're not. Let them keep developing the way they are.

How do Burren keep all their adult footballers happy? Same question.

East Belfast need to lay down grass roots to survive any great length of time, I'd like to see that happen but I've my doubts.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: marty34 on January 04, 2021, 02:11:51 PM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.

Lagan College are a large integrated in the catchment area outlined. do they participate in Colleges gaelic games at all?

Bredagh are a large club in terms of catchment and in fairness to them they are a proper dual club from adult right the way down to the juvenile ranks so I'm sure there's an outlet for everyone to get game time at an appropriate level. That's a huge level of commitment from their volunteers and hurling wise you'll see the same faces along the line with more than one team.
They're a breath of fresh air in the hurling.

Carryduff dip in and out of the hurling underage wise and probably one of the main reasons they really haven't gotten going at adult hurling in a serious way, once again same faces along the lines with most teams and that's a big ask.

I don't think either are too big at all and compared to clubs in Cork and Dublin they'd be on the smaller side of members and I could see through it if they're lifting underage titles year on year across the board, but they're not. Let them keep developing the way they are.

How do Burren keep all their adult footballers happy? Same question.

East Belfast need to lay down grass roots to survive any great length of time, I'd like to see that happen but I've my doubts.
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I suppose this all depends on the future demographics of the area and the overspill to the club from that.  New people, with gaa experience, will only be a good thing. 

I suppose keeping afloat over the next few years is important and especially the ways things are with Covid, hopefully the club won't regress after a strong 'opening' period.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: 6th sam on January 04, 2021, 05:30:10 PM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.

Lagan College are a large integrated in the catchment area outlined. do they participate in Colleges gaelic games at all?

Bredagh are a large club in terms of catchment and in fairness to them they are a proper dual club from adult right the way down to the juvenile ranks so I'm sure there's an outlet for everyone to get game time at an appropriate level. That's a huge level of commitment from their volunteers and hurling wise you'll see the same faces along the line with more than one team.
They're a breath of fresh air in the hurling.

Carryduff dip in and out of the hurling underage wise and probably one of the main reasons they really haven't gotten going at adult hurling in a serious way, once again same faces along the lines with most teams and that's a big ask.

I don't think either are too big at all and compared to clubs in Cork and Dublin they'd be on the smaller side of members and I could see through it if they're lifting underage titles year on year across the board, but they're not. Let them keep developing the way they are.

How do Burren keep all their adult footballers happy? Same question.

East Belfast need to lay down grass roots to survive any great length of time, I'd like to see that happen but I've my doubts.
That’s one of the problems I have with so-called

“integrated” education. First of all, there shouldn’t  be a demand for an integrated sector or indeed “Catholic” sector if the “state” sector recognised the supposed equal status of Irishness and Britishness in NI. However given the loaded funding and support for the “integrated” sector, it should be contingent on evidence of equal status for Irishness and Britishness.
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: delgany on January 04, 2021, 05:55:13 PM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.

Lagan College are a large integrated in the catchment area outlined. do they participate in Colleges gaelic games at all?

Bredagh are a large club in terms of catchment and in fairness to them they are a proper dual club from adult right the way down to the juvenile ranks so I'm sure there's an outlet for everyone to get game time at an appropriate level. That's a huge level of commitment from their volunteers and hurling wise you'll see the same faces along the line with more than one team.
They're a breath of fresh air in the hurling.

Carryduff dip in and out of the hurling underage wise and probably one of the main reasons they really haven't gotten going at adult hurling in a serious way, once again same faces along the lines with most teams and that's a big ask.

I don't think either are too big at all and compared to clubs in Cork and Dublin they'd be on the smaller side of members and I could see through it if they're lifting underage titles year on year across the board, but they're not. Let them keep developing the way they are.

How do Burren keep all their adult footballers happy? Same question.

East Belfast need to lay down grass roots to survive any great length of time, I'd like to see that happen but I've my doubts.

Lagan play in Ulster Colleges - lower level- won a title two years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/46612336
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: 6th sam on January 04, 2021, 06:05:58 PM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.

Lagan College are a large integrated in the catchment area outlined. do they participate in Colleges gaelic games at all?

Bredagh are a large club in terms of catchment and in fairness to them they are a proper dual club from adult right the way down to the juvenile ranks so I'm sure there's an outlet for everyone to get game time at an appropriate level. That's a huge level of commitment from their volunteers and hurling wise you'll see the same faces along the line with more than one team.
They're a breath of fresh air in the hurling.

Carryduff dip in and out of the hurling underage wise and probably one of the main reasons they really haven't gotten going at adult hurling in a serious way, once again same faces along the lines with most teams and that's a big ask.

I don't think either are too big at all and compared to clubs in Cork and Dublin they'd be on the smaller side of members and I could see through it if they're lifting underage titles year on year across the board, but they're not. Let them keep developing the way they are.

How do Burren keep all their adult footballers happy? Same question.

East Belfast need to lay down grass roots to survive any great length of time, I'd like to see that happen but I've my doubts.

Lagan play in Ulster Colleges - lower level- won a title two years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/46612336

That’s a start, but the integrated sector don’t deserve preferential status unless they promote parity of irishness and Britishness as per GFA
Title: Re: What to do about Belfast
Post by: delgany on January 04, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
There must be some so called "integrated" schools in those parts.

I know of at least one integrated school in Belfast that plays football. Albeit, very badly, but they do try.

Lagan College are a large integrated in the catchment area outlined. do they participate in Colleges gaelic games at all?

Bredagh are a large club in terms of catchment and in fairness to them they are a proper dual club from adult right the way down to the juvenile ranks so I'm sure there's an outlet for everyone to get game time at an appropriate level. That's a huge level of commitment from their volunteers and hurling wise you'll see the same faces along the line with more than one team.
They're a breath of fresh air in the hurling.

Carryduff dip in and out of the hurling underage wise and probably one of the main reasons they really haven't gotten going at adult hurling in a serious way, once again same faces along the lines with most teams and that's a big ask.

I don't think either are too big at all and compared to clubs in Cork and Dublin they'd be on the smaller side of members and I could see through it if they're lifting underage titles year on year across the board, but they're not. Let them keep developing the way they are.

How do Burren keep all their adult footballers happy? Same question.

East Belfast need to lay down grass roots to survive any great length of time, I'd like to see that happen but I've my doubts.

Lagan play in Ulster Colleges - lower level- won a title two years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/gaelic-games/46612336

That’s a start, but the integrated sector don’t deserve preferential status unless they promote parity of irishness and Britishness as per GFA

10 integrated colleges affiliated to Ulster Colleges GAA, to what extent or degree they are involved is an interesting fact to establish