Joe Brolly has discussion with Jamie Bryson

[johnnycool]

There are 2 ways to manage a territory with a significant regional minority .

1. Unified with high regional autonomy
2. Partitioned


The national territory was partitioned against the wishes of Unionists and Nationalists in 1920. Tyrone and Fermanagh were thrown in for free. There was no vote.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"
Mencken.

North Down and Antrim were more developed than the South.

Grace Neill's pub in Donaghdee has a photo from a century ago. Nobody was wearing tracksuits.

Post 1920 the Unionists ran NI as a separate country that was not Irish. They ran an ethnography with systematic injustice against Nationalists.

The UK was at the time richer than the South. In the 50s even Crossmaglen Republicans appreciated the NHS although they felt uncomfortable.
Dublin had zero leverage.

Until the system collapsed into civil war in 1969.

Sunningdale, the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA all had significant Dublin input.

The last 50 years have featured the slow dripping away of Unionist power in favour of Dublin influence. The GFA was described as Sunningdale for slow learners by Séamus Mallon.

Over the same time period the Northern economy faded and was overtaken by the Southern economy. 

The institutions of the Southern state  including the LLS are partitionist.  So are the papers. This is not a law of nature. The people aren't necessarily.
The national territory is still divided.

This is a very long game.

For those who seem to believe that the Republic is any way comparable to what they have in NI

A few simple facts

NI currently has a population 36% of the Republics

1.1920 2 counties Down and Antrim had 80% of the total economic output of the Island, today the total NI economic output is 8% of this islands output.

If NI was in any fit state economically, it would be contributing a third or more.

2.The Size of the Republics economy is €400bn odd, the size of NI's is £40bn odd

NI's economy should be treble what it is, £120bn odd

3.Exports

ROI total exports €160bn odd,2020 up 8% on 2019

NI total exports £7bn odd

the reality is that the increase in the Republic exports between 2019 and 2020 is greater than NI total exports tells its own story.

4.Cross Border pre 2021 Exports by value

34% NI exports to the Republic

1% ROI exports to NI


I could go on and on with examples as regards the disparity in wages, educational attainment, quality of life, life expectancy, even social welfare benefits which seems to a preoccupation of some from NI and the likes of gay rights and abortion rights but I wont.

I'm sure the sainted northern NHS will be thrown at me as an example of where NI is better the Republic, but when you look at the thousands on waiting lists up there, it kinda dilutes that claim too.

The reality is that the Republic is a free open and tolerant European country, the North ain't and maybe that's why most nordies on here resent it so much

I think some of us really understand that whilst part of the UK Northern Ireland has suffered from under investment and lack of interest from London, heck, they don't even give a shit for the north of England FFS. Now with the hardest of Brexit looming driven by little englanders with a longing for an empire that is long gone, the very same economic unionists in the north are beginning to see what the rest of us have seen for a while, that the six counties, long underachievement would be better served in a UI part of the EU.

We don't resent it, we want to be an active part of it.

[tippmaninlaois]

https://twitter.com/csblenner/status/1475161417263292417?s=21

"Virtually all the debate on the reunification of Ireland centres on how we integrate the 800k PUL citizens in NI and how we absorb a region that's been in economic freefall for decades. But Joe Brolly's dubious claims suggest the integration of republicans as another snag."

As proven by the vast majority of northern comments on here

They have more in common with their unionist neighbours and despise the south

I think it's more nuanced than that.

Northerners of my vintage and older probably take exception to how we were portrayed by the ruling elites, the media, print, television and radio in Dublin mostly, the church with the honourable exception of Cardinal Ó Fiaich not the ordinary Joe who wanted to make a living for his family in deepest Cloughjordan or the likes.

Scannal showed a documentary of the "dispute" at Holycross Primary school 20 years after the event and seeing some of the responses from the likes of Anthony Daly on twitter almost incredulous that this happened as if he was unaware of it when it was actually happening..

The Southern public were deliberately kept in the dark and fed a "one is bad as the other line" for fear of offending the unionists in the north and the London government I presume..

You presumed wrong on that front

It's like you lot think we didn't have television or just RTE only for our sources of information,when the abomination at Holy Cross was going on.

[Itchy]

What we have here is a little FGer who knows f**k all about anything from the safety of Tipp/Laois lecturing us. Best to ignore him. The FGers are in a deep set of panic at the moment and are lashing out left right and centre, just have a look at the state of them on twitter for example and in the print media. McEntee and unbelievably Norma Foley are being touted as the next great female leaders of Ireland so afraid are they of the republican movement and specifically Mary Lou McDonald.

[Rossfan]

What we have here is a little FGer who knows f**k all about anything from the safety of Tipp/Laois lecturing us. Best to ignore him. The FGers are in a deep set of panic at the moment and are lashing out left right and centre, just have a look at the state of them on twitter for example and in the print media. McEntee and unbelievably Norma Foley are being touted as the next great female leaders of Ireland so afraid are they of the republican movement and specifically Mary Lou McDonald.

Are you still not a member of any political party

[Rossfan]

There are 2 ways to manage a territory with a significant regional minority .

1. Unified with high regional autonomy
2. Partitioned

Time the pro unity people were studying Belgian and Swiss models.

[Itchy]

What we have here is a little FGer who knows f**k all about anything from the safety of Tipp/Laois lecturing us. Best to ignore him. The FGers are in a deep set of panic at the moment and are lashing out left right and centre, just have a look at the state of them on twitter for example and in the print media. McEntee and unbelievably Norma Foley are being touted as the next great female leaders of Ireland so afraid are they of the republican movement and specifically Mary Lou McDonald.

Are you still not a member of any political party

If you've proof I am produce it. I will vote SF at next election but I am not a member.

[Mikhail Prokhorov]

There are 2 ways to manage a territory with a significant regional minority .

1. Unified with high regional autonomy
2. Partitioned

Time the pro unity people were studying Belgian and Swiss models.

that would be too sensible for nordies 

they vote against their own interests but you get who and what you vote for

[seafoid]

There are 2 ways to manage a territory with a significant regional minority .

1. Unified with high regional autonomy
2. Partitioned

Time the pro unity people were studying Belgian and Swiss models.

Based on now, only Antrim, east Derry, a bit of Armagh and North Down would be considered for regional autonomy.

[Rossfan]

With the 6/26 divide possibly 120 years in existence there won't be a partition of the "Northeast semi autonomous region".
Possibly divide it into "3 sub cantons" which will feed into the NESAR Assembly?
South and West mainly Nationalist, North and East mainly Unionist and Belfast Metropolitan area 50/50.

[Main Street]

That was a very good interview with Joe on  VM by Tommy Martin,  I don't know if there has been a better one this year.  Tommy was just perfect, stayed in the background, kept the questions  to a minimum, just prodded Joe in a direction and listened to him expressing his raw to the bone complex of emotions and memories. That was Joe unplugged, stripped bare and honest.

[ONeill]

Joe seemed to sell his ma and da (recently deceased) up the river in that interview with no real detail. Very uncomfortable viewing.

[Main Street]

Joe seemed to sell his ma and da (recently deceased) up the river in that interview with no real detail. Very uncomfortable viewing.

Blatantly obvious what he was referring to  and Joe gave account to his Aunt's regrets. It was not a planned disclosure  perhaps he will add some coherance to the  experience later on as he clearly has not got 'passed it'.

[ONeill]

When he talked about thinking he was going to be punched if someone was aggressive with him, you knew the parallels he was making. The spitting thing made the parallels a bit blurred.

[Fuzzman]

Very uncomfortable viewing indeed when he talked about his horrible child hood at the boarding school in Armagh and how his aunt told him we shouldn't have sent him there.
Hard to watch him crying about the abuse.
Thought Tommy handled it well and moved on.

[Tubberman]

That was a very good interview with Joe on  VM by Tommy Martin,  I don't know if there has been a better one this year.  Tommy was just perfect, stayed in the background, kept the questions  to a minimum, just prodded Joe in a direction and listened to him expressing his raw to the bone complex of emotions and memories. That was Joe unplugged, stripped bare and honest.

Joe's honest opinion changes to suit his agenda on any given matter.