According to reports Zane Keenan is gone again. How many times does he leave and come back every year? Does he actually want to play county hurling?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=254255
Certainly a major blow if this is true.
I think if he keeps coming back, putting county commitments ahead of family and work, its quite obvious he does care about hurling with Laois. Cant have been an easy decision.
The training being done of late is monumental, I have huge respect for any man who undertakes it. Intercounty hurling is not suited to the farming life, its now for students, single men and teachers.
Thanks Zane.
We move on with who we have.
I think they tried to accom Zane everyway they could but his heart just wasn't fully in it since he got the belt on the shin early in the year...(same place he broke it few years back)...It was giving him trouble and he was finding it hard to get up to speed missing sessions through work at home and this injury so he has packed it in....
A pity!
Cheddar did mention in one of his post match interviews about the trouble that the injury was causing Keenan saying that he wasn't always able to train or play because of it.
It is a real pity but because we have so few quality players, a county like Laois really misses someone like Zane Kennan. He was very important to us in that win over Offaly last year. As a county we are always going to be up against it!
Have we any challenge games in the meantime before championship?
Hopefully we can at least beat whichever team comes through qualifiers. A lot of changes this year. A return to round robin wont help our development!
Playing Limerick Im told not sure when or where...
Quote from: Unlaoised on April 29, 2016, 05:01:33 PM
Playing Limerick Im told not sure when or where...
Hopefully can do themselves justice since time they played in league!
Any word on the Limerick match or other practice matches played? Looking at the round robin we will most likely meet Kerry or Offaly!
Hurlers spent last weekend in Dundrum House training & planning, played the U21s in a practice match Saturday evening
Going to Fota Island for the weekend next weekend training, planning, maybe this is when the limerick match is taking place?
I think we're going to have to face Offaly in Tullamore in the Leinster quarter final, and whilst Offaly are not going well and are under pressure I would not be at all confident.
Laoise are good enough to beat Offaly in Tullamore, and certainly they should have done so in the league. However, like Ogie, I wouldn't be that sure that they actually will. Mind you, Westmeath's current form puts the relegation/ promotion play-off win into some sort of perspective. Perhaps...
If they end up playing Kerry, I assume it's a neutral venue?
From reading Ogie's last message, hurlers can't be faulted for the effort and preparation they are putting into having themselves ready for the championship. I know we have lost a number of players from last year and as a result may not achieve the desire results but they have to be commended for their time given and dedication. Hopefully the seeds are being sown for future years as there are still a lot of relatively young/ inexperienced hurlers on the panel who you would hope can develop in next 3/4 years. Cheddar must be commended for this even if results don't go our way. It is looking like offaly in Tulllamore- what a realistic incentive for this current squad-to beat Offaly two years running, home and away.
Offaly are in a similar position to us this time last year. As the "top dog" in the qualifier group you are there to be shot down. We had to overcome a very tricky assignment against Westmeath and now Offaly have a tough test against Kerry. I expect them to come through that (Boyle will be a big loss for Kerry), but I wouldn't be shocked at all if Kerry won it.
For Laois, it's all about sorting the defence out. For all the players we've lost our forwards should be every bit as strong as last year when we were missing Ross King and Neil Foyle. I actually think Laois are in a grand position coming into this, as after the league the expectations are low and not a whole lot is expected. If some of the younger guys can come of age I'd be quite confident we can win the quarter final.
Anyone got any news from the Laois camp? Have they had any challenge games and how are they looking. With 3 weeks to go until the championship they should coming into tip top shape. Their fittness levels should be good and all Cheddar needs to ensure is that he has the best 15 on the pitch on the day.
Looking forward to it.
I believe Mark Kavanagh is out w/ a shoulder injury. Not a starter, I know, but he'll be a loss for the U21s.
What sort of starting 15 are we looking at for Offaly or Kerry??
Anyone been to see them train at all. That might give an indication as to the starting 15.
Corner back and full back positions haven't been settled through the league. I assume we will see something along the lines of what we saw at the latter stages of the league.
Will Mullaney hurl in the half back or full back line. Purcell will probably start in centrefield but who will start beside him. Matthew probably back to centre but someone mentioned he should be tried at full back. I would have Mullaney at full meself. Cahir Healy can play anywhere but where would he be best for Laois. Centreback? I still think no one is better than Healy to man mark a lad so the opposition might have a big say in where he starts.
Tom Delaney at left half back or would you try him in centrefield with Lee Cleere staying in the half back line.
Forwards I would assume will be 6 from Cha, Willie, Picky, Scully, King, Foyle, Conroy and Reddin. Based on league form I wouldn't say Picky would be a definate starter but he has the ability to put in a good performance and he is due one.
Cha and Willie certs to start.
One thing for sure, knowing Cheddar is that whatever team he picks there will be changes before the throw in!
Offaly in Tullamore. Lovely. ::)
Hopefully it will be a nice day and we play to our potential - at least we should be competitive. Kerry are a good side and were hard beaten, more than we could manage this year on 2 occasions. All that being said, this should be a 50:50 game.
In fairness it is the best outcome for Laois. If we manage to beat Offaly, our nearest and dearest rivals, in Tullamore it will be great preparation for the semi final. We will have to raise our game for them and it would be good to get some consistency so beating Offaly for a second year in a row would lay down a marker.
Laois have to start getting victories particularly at grounds like Tullamore if we're going to improve and become more than a 'home' team. The last decent win in O'Connor Park in either code, that I remember is the replay win for the footballers in 2003.
When did we last beat Offaly in Tullamore in hurling championship?
Any word from the camp lads? What's training going like and any idea of a starting 15? Is it taking shape.
Quote from: redsetanta on May 23, 2016, 11:06:16 AM
In fairness it is the best outcome for Laois. If we manage to beat Offaly, our nearest and dearest rivals, in Tullamore it will be great preparation for the semi final. We will have to raise our game for them and it would be good to get some consistency so beating Offaly for a second year in a row would lay down a marker.
Laois have to start getting victories particularly at grounds like Tullamore if we're going to improve and become more than a 'home' team. The last decent win in O'Connor Park in either code, that I remember is the replay win for the footballers in 2003.
When did we last beat Offaly in Tullamore in hurling championship?
Wasn't that replay in Portlaoise?
Definitely Tullamore !! Ian Fitzgerald on top form.
Quote from: redsetanta on May 23, 2016, 11:06:16 AM
When did we last beat Offaly in Tullamore in hurling championship?
29/04/1923. We won 6-3 4-3. However, we beat them in Birr in 1965, 1953, 1949, 1940, 1938, 1934 & 1932.
We also beat them in 1908, but I don't know where.
Very little chat, discussion or build up to our biggest game of the year, same on the Offaly forum, more interested in talking about Connacht rugby!!
I know the lads have been trainin hard with sole focus on this game, couple of training weekends n final preps last Friday night n Sunday,
Up until last week I didn't really fancy our chances, now I don't know if it's just hope or excitement building but I think we may be able to produce our best hurling of the year on Sunday and win it,
Mentally it must be great for cheddar & the panel to build & focus on one performance Sunday, whilst Offaly have had s turbulent few weeks, up and down,
I think first 20 minutes will be crucial, if we can start well and get ahead Offalys confidence will surely weaken & home crowd get tetchy, Offaly are dependent on Shane Dooley & Bergin, both of whom in guessing will be man marked by Healy & Matthew
I do think it will be close but I'm hoping we can get out of there with a couple of points to spare,
Quote from: Dave like the tv channel on June 01, 2016, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: redsetanta on May 23, 2016, 11:06:16 AM
When did we last beat Offaly in Tullamore in hurling championship?
29/04/1923. We won 6-3 4-3. However, we beat them in Birr in 1965, 1953, 1949, 1940, 1938, 1934 & 1932.
We also beat them in 1908, but I don't know where.
Maryborough
Quote from: muppet on June 01, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Quote from: Dave like the tv channel on June 01, 2016, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: redsetanta on May 23, 2016, 11:06:16 AM
When did we last beat Offaly in Tullamore in hurling championship?
29/04/1923. We won 6-3 4-3. However, we beat them in Birr in 1965, 1953, 1949, 1940, 1938, 1934 & 1932.
We also beat them in 1908, but I don't know where.
Maryborough
Where did you find that?
Hopefully we will hit the ground running, normally its Laois who are coming in with the round robin games under their belt, offaly have that advantage this time around and will be itching to get one over us. The bookies have them favourites so hopefully our lads have ironed out the creases since the league as given the losses to panel a win here would do wonders for their confidence. Should be a good game.
Quote from: Ogie on June 01, 2016, 01:54:57 PM
Very little chat, discussion or build up to our biggest game of the year, same on the Offaly forum, more interested in talking about Connacht rugby!!
I know the lads have been trainin hard with sole focus on this game, couple of training weekends n final preps last Friday night n Sunday,
Up until last week I didn't really fancy our chances, now I don't know if it's just hope or excitement building but I think we may be able to produce our best hurling of the year on Sunday and win it,
Mentally it must be great for cheddar & the panel to build & focus on one performance Sunday, whilst Offaly have had s turbulent few weeks, up and down,
I think first 20 minutes will be crucial, if we can start well and get ahead Offalys confidence will surely weaken & home crowd get tetchy, Offaly are dependent on Shane Dooley & Bergin, both of whom in guessing will be man marked by Healy & Matthew
I do think it will be close but I'm hoping we can get out of there with a couple of points to spare,
Zane missing for laois his laois main man ;)
we are a seeded team, should be winning this one in our stride, offaly a border line ring cup team, their fans living in the past, cannot see that they now have plonk as compared to the champagne of the past.
The low key build up is not surprising after the u21 defeat to be honest, that was a real sucker punch for Laois hurling. It's up to the seniors then to rescue something from the year, but they'll have it all to do to get the win in Tullamore. I think we have the forwards to trouble Offaly but playing with a sweeper is going to really hold back the likes of King and Foyle who thrive on one-on-one situations. We hit 29 points last year, but we can't expect Cha and Willie to be hitting 5/6 points each day out and Offaly will have them closely followed on Sunday.
Mullaney, Leigh Bergin, Rowland and Colm Stapleton are all in line to make their debuts and a lot will depend on how they take to senior championship. It's the guys in the next age bracket, the likes of Roddy, Picky and Foyle that need to really step up for this one. Hyland has being doing it for long enough now and Cha shows that leadership has no link with age, so I'd be expecting big games from these guys. Make no mistake Laois badly need a win here, but so do Offaly.
Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on June 01, 2016, 10:10:48 PM
we are a seeded team, should be winning this one in our stride, offaly a border line ring cup team, their fans living in the past, cannot see that they now have plonk as compared to the champagne of the past.
fans not living in the past at least we had one unlike laois, yes we know we are rock bottom knew that last year when laois won in portlaoise, and went on to score only 1 point in the first half again galway. all the talk of the great underage work in laois lost the last two years to carlow in under 21, and if they let the poorest offaly side on record win on sunday cheddar should get his p45.
Quote from: Thewildcat on June 02, 2016, 06:30:20 PM
Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on June 01, 2016, 10:10:48 PM
we are a seeded team, should be winning this one in our stride, offaly a border line ring cup team, their fans living in the past, cannot see that they now have plonk as compared to the champagne of the past.
fans not living in the past at least we had one unlike laois, yes we know we are rock bottom knew that last year when laois won in portlaoise, and went on to score only 1 point in the first half again galway. all the talk of the great underage work in laois lost the last two years to carlow in under 21, and if they let the poorest offaly side on record win on sunday cheddar should get his p45.
*cough* 1915 *cough*
Laois Senior Hurling manager Seamas Plunkett has announced his starting 15 for Sunday's Leinster SHC clash with Offaly at 3.30pm in Tullamore
1.Enda Rowland-St Lazerian's Abbeyleix
2. Dwane Palmer-Camross
3. Darren Maher-Clough Ballacolla
4. Cahir Healy-Portlaoise
5. Leigh Bergin-Shanahoe
6. Matthew Whelan-Borris in Ossory Kilcotton
7. Ryan Mullaney-Castletown
8. Patrick Purcell-Rathdowney Errill
9. Colm Stapleton-Borris in Ossory Kilcotton
10. Charles Dwyer-Ballinakill
11. Neil Foyle-Borris in Ossory Kilcotton
12. Stephen Maher-Clough Ballacolla
13. John Lennon-Rosenallis
14. Willie Hyland-Clough Ballacolla
15. PJ Scully-Borris in Ossory Kilcotton
Tickets for the game remain on sale at usual outlets.
Good spread of clubs - 10 is more than would usually be on a Leix lineout.
Still, it'll be a hard one to win, and Offaly certainly deserve to be favourites.
Why is there always so many borris lads named on these teams?
For a club that hasnt won a championship they always seem to have alot of lads on the team while the likes of camross tend to have very few despite probably being the most consistant club in laois in the last few years
Quote from: Ballyroan Abbey on June 02, 2016, 11:25:53 PM
Why is there always so many borris lads named on these teams?
For a club that hasnt won a championship they always seem to have alot of lads on the team while the likes of camross tend to have very few despite probably being the most consistant club in laois in the last few years
Don't think you could argue against any of them starting though. Is Lennon a bit of a surprise?
Lennon is seemingly flying in training.
I'd be surprised if there weren't the usual few switches before throw-in....
Pretty much the same team we have named all year. No surprises and hard to argue with. All about whether they can hit the ground running and are fresh.
The teams when we met in the league in February.
Offaly: J Dempsey; N Wynne, C McDonald, S Gardiner; D Shortt, D Kelleher, P Camon; S Ryan, J O'Connor (0-01); P Murphy (0-02), C Egan (0-01), S Kinsella (0-01); S Dooley (0-12, 0-07f, 0-01 65), J Bergin, J Mulrooney.
Laois: E Rowland (0-02f); D Palmer, D Maher, C Healy; L Bergin, N Foyle, R Mullaney; T Delaney, M Whelan; P Purcell, S Maher (0-03), C Collier; R King (0-02), W Dunphy, PJ Scully (0-05f).
Subs used: B Reddin for Purcell (49mins) Z Keenan (0-02, 0-01f, 0-001 65) for Dunphy (53 mins), W Hyland (0-01) for Collier (54 mins), C Stapleton for Delaney (58 mins), M Kavanagh for Scully (70 mins).
Is King injured or not deemed up to it?
Big day tomorrow for what is pretty much a new Laois team.
Conditions should be perfect tomorrow for a savage battle.
Best of luck guys.
Best of luck to all the lads today.
Hope we get big performances from the debutants, not going to be easy but what an opportunity to make a name for themselves.
I presume Healy will follow Dooley with Maher or Whelan on Bergin wherever he goes.
Cha and Willie will be watched very closely after their performance last year so we need Foyle, Picky and Scully to carry a serious threat. Foyle at 14 can be a match-winner and I have a good feeling about Picky today.
I do think the round-robin games will see Offaly that bit sharper than last year and they are worthy favourites but there is nothing between the two teams on paper and I cant help but feel this game will come down to the smallest of margins.
No excuse not to have a good Laois following so hopefully we bring plenty of noise and colour.
Second half collapse, 3-22 to 2-14 and our second goal in the dying seconds only puts a slight gloss on a horrific second half.
We just don't do hurling in this county.
Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on June 01, 2016, 10:10:48 PM
we are a seeded team, should be winning this one in our stride, offaly a border line ring cup team, their fans living in the past, cannot see that they now have plonk as compared to the champagne of the past.
not to bad for a border line ring cup team are we cuckoo ;D ;D
Was listening to the streamed commentary on midlands 103, but first half sounded a decent game, 2nd half was one way traffic. Laois did seem to make crucial mistakes at vital times, They should have had a goal only for what was described as an unbelievable save for the Offaly keeper, then Offaly go down the pitch and get a goal of their own a minute later. Pity they folded in the second half.
The Offaly 'keeper made a couple of great saves in the first half, for sure, but it felt like Laoise were lucky enough to be level at half-time - though, to be fair, they clawed back a five-point deficit to be one up approaching half-time. There was one sequence late in the first-half when Offaly looked certain to get a goal, only for some amazing saving blocks to come in. Sort of lifted them a bit. Of course, the second half was a write-off, and the only good thing from a Leix point of view was a couple of great scores from Cha. Otherwise, there's nothing to say, except that Offaly looked good, and Leix looked dire. I think it's more of the latter, to be honest, and it's back to the bad old days again. Maybe they DO need the round robin games - though on today's performance, they wouldn't even get out of that.
I think it is more than today's result.
Minors beaten by Offaly,
U21s beaten by Carlow,
Seniors beaten twice by Kerry & twice by Offaly.
To lose all of the games above is an unqualified disaster of a year. It gives the appearance of no progress after years of hard work and positivity.
When things started to go wrong we just didn't know how to hurl without the sweeper at the back and got totally opened up.
I don't know what the answers are.
Quote from: Thewildcat on June 05, 2016, 05:48:33 PM
Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on June 01, 2016, 10:10:48 PM
we are a seeded team, should be winning this one in our stride, offaly a border line ring cup team, their fans living in the past, cannot see that they now have plonk as compared to the champagne of the past.
not to bad for a border line ring cup team are we cuckoo ;D ;D
Enjoy your kick, ya sad little p***k. You're quiet enough when things don't go your way. It's a sad state when your own supporters are ashamed of your inputs. Can't wait for your pre/post Galway views, that will be riveting. Pond-life.
Second half today made for hard viewing. Had ourselves set up rightly after going in level at half time. Said to a lad beside me that even though O'Connor Park has been a bit of a graveyard for Laois teams if you were a gambling man you'd back Laois even though our record is so bad. Jaysus we were looking so good at half time after playing into that breeze. What the f**k went so badly wrong???
I think Ched's excuse of this being a young team is wearing thin when you look to what Waterford are doing. Frustrating, having said that a couple of breaks didn't go our way at critical times. Attention turns to the back door with Cork, Clare, Wexford & Westmeath you couldn't be too confident.
TOMMY CONLON SUNDAY INDEPENDENT, THAT SAID IT ALL.
All the joyful optimism they banked from their miraculous defeat of Kilkenny in the Leinster under 21 championship 10 days ago will eventually run into the sand. It will dissipate into frustration and disappointment as they experience the reality of life in one of hurling's perennial backwaters.
Seasons will slip by in circles of apathy and anonymity. They will spend most of their time down where the buses don't run, where the crowds don't appear, playing bad games against poor teams. They might get the odd day out in the championship.
More probably they will take beatings that border on the embarrassing. Managers will come and go. Players will come and go, demoralised by the futility of it all.
By the time they've reached their mid-20s, the sheer thrill they enjoyed that May evening in 2016 will seem like a moment of lost innocence. In their dejected adulthood they might even look back and marvel at their naivete at the time. They had all sorts of dreams of future glory but here they are now, turned cynical by the treadmill of mediocrity, wondering if it's worth another year of their time, what with the job and the girlfriend and the mortgage.
We have all seen this movie played out over and over, in hurling and Gaelic football. A minnow county happens upon a good underage generation; they pull off a few improbable victories and for a brief, glorious time, the limelight is theirs. Then they cross the bridge into the senior universe, the world of hardened men and big-game talents - and they discover the hard way that it's not a bridge they're trying to cross, but a chasm.
What's worse is that we all collude in feeding them this lie. Everyone pumps them full of hope at this age. It is the mythical narrative on which the GAA sustains itself: the romantic notion of The Breakthrough being just around the corner for the weaker county, the smaller parish, if they just push that little bit harder and try that little bit more.
It doesn't take a lot to peddle this line. One or two wins in a given season are enough. These are the straws that are clutched as signs of progress, harbingers of better things, staging posts to the glory that awaits just over the next hill.
The win in question will be billed as "a great boost for . . . " - fill in your own blanks here. That remarkable two-point victory for the under 21s was, of course, "a great boost for Westmeath hurling". In recent years we've had great boosts for Carlow hurling and Laois hurling and Fermanagh hurling and Longford hurling and even Warwickshire hurling. Yesterday Louth played Sligo in the Lory Meagher Cup final. Naturally, the winning team will have given a great boost to Sligo or Louth hurling, God bless the mark.
What will never be said is that none of these counties, and plenty more like them, will ever get close to becoming contenders at the top end of the game. Most of them have traditionally struggled to contend in football, by far the more popular of the Gaelic sports in their counties.
Westmeath football has won one senior Leinster title in over 120 years of trying. And it has the whole county from which to pick its players. Westmeath hurling has 13 or 14 clubs to choose from in total. "That's only as big as the West Waterford division," said Michael Ryan, their senior hurling manager, last week. "That's the size of the hurling fraternity (in Westmeath)".
What will never be said either is that this is a hopeless situation. What will never be said is that the playing population in so many of these counties is simply too small; and therefore that their teams will rarely be good enough for anything but the crumbs from the table.
The talk instead is always of putting the right structures in place, strategies for underage development, more coaching and promotion etc, etc. But all of these initiatives continually and forever run into the brick wall of demographics - player population.
The one idea that could make a meaningful difference, that might actually help the minnows put competitive teams on the field, is the one idea that remains taboo: breaking down the county boundaries. Allowing the free movement of players between counties. What if, for example, some top club hurlers in Kilkenny or Galway were allowed play county hurling, if they fancied it, for Carlow or Westmeath? Players perhaps not quite good enough to make their own home squads but who'd like to compete at county level and would get the chance to do so with another team?
But the notion remains apparently unthinkable. The principle of playing for your home county is such a sacred tenet, so embedded in the GAA's communal psyche, that few people appear ready to question it. The counties who suffer most from this demographic disadvantage have seemingly become so conditioned to their place in the pecking order that they don't challenge it either.
Let's hope the Westmeath under 21s are enjoying their moment in the sun, because sadly it might never shine on them again.
Sunday Indo Sport
Follow @IndoSport
Quote from: theoldvet on June 06, 2016, 05:23:09 PM
There it is in a nutshell, this whole idea of teams representing counties ( formed in the 16th century)is so unfair it's ridiculous.
But we all feed into and support it, like the shite we had to read and listen last w/e about the dubs and the great colour they brought to Kilkenny. Their first championship game away from home in 10 yrs ffs What other sport would allow such an advantage.
Just imagine trying to explain our structures to an outsider........ I suspect he'd say we're of our f****n heads and he'd be right.
TOMMY CONLON SUNDAY INDEPENDENT, THAT SAID IT ALL.
All the joyful optimism they banked from their miraculous defeat of Kilkenny in the Leinster under 21 championship 10 days ago will eventually run into the sand. It will dissipate into frustration and disappointment as they experience the reality of life in one of hurling's perennial backwaters.
Seasons will slip by in circles of apathy and anonymity. They will spend most of their time down where the buses don't run, where the crowds don't appear, playing bad games against poor teams. They might get the odd day out in the championship.
More probably they will take beatings that border on the embarrassing. Managers will come and go. Players will come and go, demoralised by the futility of it all.
By the time they've reached their mid-20s, the sheer thrill they enjoyed that May evening in 2016 will seem like a moment of lost innocence. In their dejected adulthood they might even look back and marvel at their naivete at the time. They had all sorts of dreams of future glory but here they are now, turned cynical by the treadmill of mediocrity, wondering if it's worth another year of their time, what with the job and the girlfriend and the mortgage.
We have all seen this movie played out over and over, in hurling and Gaelic football. A minnow county happens upon a good underage generation; they pull off a few improbable victories and for a brief, glorious time, the limelight is theirs. Then they cross the bridge into the senior universe, the world of hardened men and big-game talents - and they discover the hard way that it's not a bridge they're trying to cross, but a chasm.
What's worse is that we all collude in feeding them this lie. Everyone pumps them full of hope at this age. It is the mythical narrative on which the GAA sustains itself: the romantic notion of The Breakthrough being just around the corner for the weaker county, the smaller parish, if they just push that little bit harder and try that little bit more.
It doesn't take a lot to peddle this line. One or two wins in a given season are enough. These are the straws that are clutched as signs of progress, harbingers of better things, staging posts to the glory that awaits just over the next hill.
The win in question will be billed as "a great boost for . . . " - fill in your own blanks here. That remarkable two-point victory for the under 21s was, of course, "a great boost for Westmeath hurling". In recent years we've had great boosts for Carlow hurling and Laois hurling and Fermanagh hurling and Longford hurling and even Warwickshire hurling. Yesterday Louth played Sligo in the Lory Meagher Cup final. Naturally, the winning team will have given a great boost to Sligo or Louth hurling, God bless the mark.
What will never be said is that none of these counties, and plenty more like them, will ever get close to becoming contenders at the top end of the game. Most of them have traditionally struggled to contend in football, by far the more popular of the Gaelic sports in their counties.
Westmeath football has won one senior Leinster title in over 120 years of trying. And it has the whole county from which to pick its players. Westmeath hurling has 13 or 14 clubs to choose from in total. "That's only as big as the West Waterford division," said Michael Ryan, their senior hurling manager, last week. "That's the size of the hurling fraternity (in Westmeath)".
What will never be said either is that this is a hopeless situation. What will never be said is that the playing population in so many of these counties is simply too small; and therefore that their teams will rarely be good enough for anything but the crumbs from the table.
The talk instead is always of putting the right structures in place, strategies for underage development, more coaching and promotion etc, etc. But all of these initiatives continually and forever run into the brick wall of demographics - player population.
The one idea that could make a meaningful difference, that might actually help the minnows put competitive teams on the field, is the one idea that remains taboo: breaking down the county boundaries. Allowing the free movement of players between counties. What if, for example, some top club hurlers in Kilkenny or Galway were allowed play county hurling, if they fancied it, for Carlow or Westmeath? Players perhaps not quite good enough to make their own home squads but who'd like to compete at county level and would get the chance to do so with another team?
But the notion remains apparently unthinkable. The principle of playing for your home county is such a sacred tenet, so embedded in the GAA's communal psyche, that few people appear ready to question it. The counties who suffer most from this demographic disadvantage have seemingly become so conditioned to their place in the pecking order that they don't challenge it either.
Let's hope the Westmeath under 21s are enjoying their moment in the sun, because sadly it might never shine on them again.
Sunday Indo Sport
Follow @IndoSport
Quote from: theoldvet on June 06, 2016, 05:23:09 PM
TOMMY CONLON SUNDAY INDEPENDENT, THAT SAID IT ALL.
All the joyful optimism they banked from their miraculous defeat of Kilkenny in the Leinster under 21 championship 10 days ago will eventually run into the sand. It will dissipate into frustration and disappointment as they experience the reality of life in one of hurling's perennial backwaters.
Seasons will slip by in circles of apathy and anonymity. They will spend most of their time down where the buses don't run, where the crowds don't appear, playing bad games against poor teams. They might get the odd day out in the championship.
More probably they will take beatings that border on the embarrassing. Managers will come and go. Players will come and go, demoralised by the futility of it all.
By the time they've reached their mid-20s, the sheer thrill they enjoyed that May evening in 2016 will seem like a moment of lost innocence. In their dejected adulthood they might even look back and marvel at their naivete at the time. They had all sorts of dreams of future glory but here they are now, turned cynical by the treadmill of mediocrity, wondering if it's worth another year of their time, what with the job and the girlfriend and the mortgage.
We have all seen this movie played out over and over, in hurling and Gaelic football. A minnow county happens upon a good underage generation; they pull off a few improbable victories and for a brief, glorious time, the limelight is theirs. Then they cross the bridge into the senior universe, the world of hardened men and big-game talents - and they discover the hard way that it's not a bridge they're trying to cross, but a chasm.
What's worse is that we all collude in feeding them this lie. Everyone pumps them full of hope at this age. It is the mythical narrative on which the GAA sustains itself: the romantic notion of The Breakthrough being just around the corner for the weaker county, the smaller parish, if they just push that little bit harder and try that little bit more.
It doesn't take a lot to peddle this line. One or two wins in a given season are enough. These are the straws that are clutched as signs of progress, harbingers of better things, staging posts to the glory that awaits just over the next hill.
The win in question will be billed as "a great boost for . . . " - fill in your own blanks here. That remarkable two-point victory for the under 21s was, of course, "a great boost for Westmeath hurling". In recent years we've had great boosts for Carlow hurling and Laois hurling and Fermanagh hurling and Longford hurling and even Warwickshire hurling. Yesterday Louth played Sligo in the Lory Meagher Cup final. Naturally, the winning team will have given a great boost to Sligo or Louth hurling, God bless the mark.
What will never be said is that none of these counties, and plenty more like them, will ever get close to becoming contenders at the top end of the game. Most of them have traditionally struggled to contend in football, by far the more popular of the Gaelic sports in their counties.
Westmeath football has won one senior Leinster title in over 120 years of trying. And it has the whole county from which to pick its players. Westmeath hurling has 13 or 14 clubs to choose from in total. "That's only as big as the West Waterford division," said Michael Ryan, their senior hurling manager, last week. "That's the size of the hurling fraternity (in Westmeath)".
What will never be said either is that this is a hopeless situation. What will never be said is that the playing population in so many of these counties is simply too small; and therefore that their teams will rarely be good enough for anything but the crumbs from the table.
The talk instead is always of putting the right structures in place, strategies for underage development, more coaching and promotion etc, etc. But all of these initiatives continually and forever run into the brick wall of demographics - player population.
The one idea that could make a meaningful difference, that might actually help the minnows put competitive teams on the field, is the one idea that remains taboo: breaking down the county boundaries. Allowing the free movement of players between counties. What if, for example, some top club hurlers in Kilkenny or Galway were allowed play county hurling, if they fancied it, for Carlow or Westmeath? Players perhaps not quite good enough to make their own home squads but who'd like to compete at county level and would get the chance to do so with another team?
But the notion remains apparently unthinkable. The principle of playing for your home county is such a sacred tenet, so embedded in the GAA's communal psyche, that few people appear ready to question it. The counties who suffer most from this demographic disadvantage have seemingly become so conditioned to their place in the pecking order that they don't challenge it either.
Let's hope the Westmeath under 21s are enjoying their moment in the sun, because sadly it might never shine on them again.
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Rubbish.
So all the weaker counties are just wasting their time? Forever useless?! Proper structures and good coaching will do nothing?? The GAA as an organisation is failing at helping weaker counties get stronger, true. Especially when they are giving Dublin more funding than the rest of the country combined. But its about more than money, its about the GAA top men who dont give a f**k about Louth hurling or Meath hurling or Laois hurling either.
Cant a player go and play with another county by transfer if they wish already? Pending their circumstances etc. How would that help anyway? let our best players go off and play for a better county, and how does that help us? Not to mention a big part of your motivation as a player must be to represent YOUR county, not someone elses.
What a f**king load of bullshit "Let's hope the Westmeath under 21s are enjoying their moment in the sun, because sadly it might never shine on them again."
How about well done Westmeath on beating Kilkenny, oh no wait you guys should not have bothered playing hurling from the age on 6 upwards, it will all lead to nothing anyway. Also we will all die someday so lets not waste anymore time on this forum or anything else and just finish ourselves now for f**k sake.
Its not easy to be competitive in a sport like hurling which has a high level of skill compared to say football where if you are a decent athlete you could could probably make it, but lets look at how a county like Kilkenny are so successful. They are not a county with a huge population who have an abundance of wealth. The main reason is their love of hurling and its taught in all schools throughout the county. Kids are encouraged at an early age to play the game, then when they get older there are good coaching structures in place where they can hone their skills. They can pick the elite for development squads but they also have a pool of talent going into the club championship. If you were to go to a Kilkenny Junior hurling game, the standard would be pretty high.
Schools are a big thing also, but again you need a pool of talent to start with. When Laois won minor All Irelands for the first time in the 90s schools like Ballyfin & Portlaoise had strong sides. Then onto 3rd level where they are competing against the best from other counties and so on. By the time a player reaches the chance to get on the Kilkenny county panel they are of a high standard to begin with.
All this work thats gone into a player who may not even make it is hard work, work by parents, teachers, coaches volunteers but that is whats needed...not the ara sure we are no fu**kin good anyway and never will be attitude.
It's back to investment in coaches, schools and clubs with a plan to implement from U6 upwards, this of course requires more money to employ coaches and development officers which the likes of Dublin have for the last 20 years and we need support from Croke Park for this.
Anyway back to Sunday, for now, I feared it was one of our weakest Senior hurling teams to take the field in years,
Our middle 8 were completely dominated, Only Healy in the full back line and Foyle at Full Forward could come out with any credit from the game,
Our hurling, touch, passing were poor, I know we could simply say we're not good enough but how were we not more mentally ready and up for this game, we died after Joe Bergins goal just three in the towel,
We are hurling the sweeper system now for 3 or 4 years and we are still not comfortable with it,
I hope to god we avoid the Munster teams in the qualifier draw, I don't know where we go from here..
Merman, I'd love to hear your take on the weekend & current situation please
Quote from: Ogie on June 07, 2016, 01:46:09 PM
It's
Anyway back to Sunday, for now, I feared it was one of our weakest Senior hurling teams to take the field in years,
Our middle 8 were completely dominated, Only Healy in the full back line and Foyle at Full Forward could come out with any credit
Surely cha has to get some credit, showed a bit of fight
Draw:
Wexford v Offaly
Westmeath v Limerick
Clare v Laois
Cork v Dublin
Against Clare was one of their better showings in the league, but then again, that was at home... Yikes!
Worst possible draw!! Clare are hurting badly after the manner in which Waterford beat them and a bit like in 2013, they will be absolutely gunning for a huge victory at home, and will be ruthless. We will have to hurl the game of our lives to keep things close. Not that there were any easy draws but this is going to be tough.
Wexford at home might have been manageable, but beyond that...
Only comment I have to make......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcPDHkX1qWA
Seriously concerned about tonight's match.
Clare will be relentless and I can't see the team we have picked holding them out.
I hope our lads keep their heads and dig deep because if we hang our heads then this could be worse than that Cork game....
Safe travel down to everyone going. I know Cheddar is hoping for a crowd to greet the players at 5.30 but that will be simply too early for me.
Best of luck to the footballers also.
Quote from: merman on July 02, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
Seriously concerned about tonight's match.
Clare will be relentless and I can't see the team we have picked holding them out.
I hope our lads keep their heads and dig deep because if we hang our heads then this could be worse than that Cork game....
Safe travel down to everyone going. I know Cheddar is hoping for a crowd to greet the players at 5.30 but that will be simply too early for me.
Best of luck to the footballers also.
I'd share your concerns. What is the team?
Quote from: Keyser Söze on July 02, 2016, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: merman on July 02, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
Seriously concerned about tonight's match.
Clare will be relentless and I can't see the team we have picked holding them out.
I hope our lads keep their heads and dig deep because if we hang our heads then this could be worse than that Cork game....
Safe travel down to everyone going. I know Cheddar is hoping for a crowd to greet the players at 5.30 but that will be simply too early for me.
Best of luck to the footballers also.
You were right to be concerned, a wipe out 4-25 to 9 points with over 10 mins to go :'(
I'd share your concerns. What is the team?
Another year, another drubbing. It's high time this charade of a competition be completely overhauled. Scrap provincial competitions and alliance league. Have 4 divisions of 8 teams playing a league system home and away-14 meaningful competitivel matches played every fortnight from February till August.I'd much rather 0 see Lapis play competitive games against Offaly or Westmeath in Division 2 than being hammered by Clare. Have semifinals and finals,Division 1 winners All Ireland Champions, bottom team relegated,Division 2 Champs promoted.,etc.
IMy heart goes out to players and managem ent on a night like this,but it will be the same for years to come. As supporters and players we deserve far more from the gaa than this joke of a competition!,
Oh my God, where has all the good work gone.... feel so sorry for these lads:
QuoteClare's 5-33 to 0-12 victory over Laois tonight was their biggest ever in senior championship hurling.
The 36-point win at Cusack Park bettered the Banner's previous biggest winning margin of 34 points over neighbours Limerick in the 1953 Munster SHC. Laois manager Seamus 'Cheddar' Plunkett will consider his future after the drubbing over the next few weeks.
I'd have to say that I feel really sorry for Cheddar.
Nobody has ever put as much time, thought and money into Laois hurling and sadly after 4 years you couldn't say that he is leaving a better situation than he found (as regards results).
I don't know what happens now.
What happens now is Cheddar goes, and we try to find a really good hurling coach that the players will put their faith in. Thats the most important bit.
That scoreline is absolutely appaulling. Simple as that. Lads working all year, and then a lad loses his head and gets sent off after what? 20 minutes? Now i know we would have been hammered anyway, but that rightly fucked it for the rest of the players, condemned to a second half of torture. then 3 or 4 more yellows followed soon after. I think the players have lost faith in the current management set up. No one will question Cheddars heart or commitment etc etc. But the coaching, the system, whatever you want to call it, its not working.
Feel for the players, its definitely not all their fault.
Quote from: finbar o tool on July 03, 2016, 12:19:54 AM
What happens now is Cheddar goes, and we try to find a really good hurling coach that the players will put their faith in. Thats the most important bit.
Sounds simple......except,.....who's goina pay for all of this?!
This is heartbreaking for Cheddar and the players. They put so much into their county. All we can ask for they give. I hope Cheddar stays involved at underage level. Big challenge now for the county board to step up and very hard for lads to commit to another manager like they did for Cheddar.
Horrible result - let's be honest, the moment we drew Clare, it was always a possibility.
Coming from a perspective outside the Laois hurling community, it's hard to know where Laois hurling goes from here. The underage results this year were poor. I'd imagine it'd be difficult to envisage Cahir Healy travelling from England for another year of that possible outcome.
Quote from: Keyser Söze on July 03, 2016, 02:06:33 AM
Quote from: finbar o tool on July 03, 2016, 12:19:54 AM
What happens now is Cheddar goes, and we try to find a really good hurling coach that the players will put their faith in. Thats the most important bit.
Sounds simple......except,.....who's goina pay for all of this?!
It doesnt sound simple. But thats what needs to happen. Remember the last time we went looking for a hurling manager?? The county board need to pull their f**king finger out. If its money were lacking then the county board should chain themselves to croke park in protest if thats what needs to be done! How many 30/40 point hammerings are we gona take before we stand up and fight for the help we need, whatever help that may be. Kerry were able to get Ciaran Carey and a very good management team. And do you think Carey was rubbing his hands together with glee heading down to Kerry? But they got him, and they've bought into it and they have came on leaps and bounds this year. County Board, players, everyone needs to do whatever it takes to stop this rot.
It's probably going stale a bit and would benefit from a shake up. The retirement of so many senior players and the unavailability of Keenan certainly didn't help this year and if we're being honest we probably peaked with the result against Offaly in championship last year. Our results have been very poor this year.
Also, to see Offaly contesting the U21 final, a group of players that Laois have been beating for the past few years is hard to take. Fair enough they lost in the end but gave a decent account of themselves.
The whole Cheddar situation is bitter sweet because he has done so much while he has been there and it will be our loss if he is lost to Laois hurling. If he goes as senior manager he has to be retained in some capacity. He has the right vision for LAois hurling and all he is interested in is Laois getting back up to being competitive with the bigger counties. There is no reason that we cannot be more equipped at senior level with the right set up and coaching. Maybe Cheddar could be involved in a role overseeing under age developement and coaching, a sort of director of hurling role as the hurling community has a lot of respect for the man and he will do his best to get funding etc from the GAA for the county. He definately has to stay involved in my opinion.
Couldn't agree more. Would be great if he can stay involved as a type of hurling director. That way he can both safeguard the very professional senior team set-up and influence the underage strategy. I think it is still the latter that is still letting us badly down. The retirement of Joe Fitz, Butch, John A etc. would not have been such a big problem if there was more talent pushing up from the underage structures. We still don't display the skill levels at underage or senior level necessary to compete. When we play against good teams on fast days our basics let us down too often. Pat Critchley saw that with last years minors where we couldn't compete with the wristwork or accuracy of Kilkenny and admitted that much more work was needed from primary school level to U-14/U16 level. We see the same in Tony Forrestal / Arrabawn competitions and at club level. Until we get the coaching standards right at underage, we are at best standing still and at worst going backwards and will be passed by counties like Carlow and Westmeath. I wonder if we did some sort of a quality assurance assessment of skill development at schools and club underage levels how we would compare to Kilkenny, Clare, or Waterford?
Yes for sure Chedder needs to stay involved at some capacity.