Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

michaelg

Quote from: longballin on January 13, 2018, 10:10:28 AM
I believe it was a huge coincidence and that Barry is no way nasty to set out to slag off the victims of the Kingsmills killings. Like the chances of winning the lotto are millions to one but someone wins it. This was the very unfortunate flipside of that and I suspect many opportunist unionists know that.
I would say many are unsure.  As I stated, you cannot say for sure either way.  A strong case, however, could be made that it was intentional.

T Fearon

I made no connection to the bread and this atrocity.These atrocities are more recognisable not by the location but by phrases like "Ten Protestant workmen", "The Reavey Brothers", etc.

I do not want to get into any whataboutery,they were all innocent people,but I contend Ian Paisley's malicious lies about Eugene Reavey's alleged IRA membership,at a time when his elderly mother was still alive,and refusal to apologise was far worse than Mc Elduff acting the lig.

general_lee

Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It's not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Rossfan

I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

general_lee

Quote from: michaelg on January 13, 2018, 10:04:09 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 12, 2018, 11:44:09 PM
Reflecting on the week that it's been I would make the following observations
1 McElduff has a sense of humour worse than Tony Fearon's
2 McElduff needs to grow up.
3 McElduff meant no harm with his antic - he didn't notice the brand or make the connection
4 Unionist politicians know this
5 Kingsmill victims don't because Kingsmill is at the forefront of their minds & they think this is the same for everyone
6 Kingsmill victims are therefore upset over this
7 Unionist politicians, instead of trying to assist victims by explaining that McElduff is a harmless bollix and its nothing to get excited over, exploit the episode for their own political gain
8 Unionist politicians have more to be ashamed of than McElduff
I'm not 100% convinved that there was malicious intent in McElduff's actions, however, you cannot say for sure that he meant no harm.  There is just too much of a coincidence I'm afraid.  As such, Points 4, 7 and 8 above are horseshit.
On point 4, William Crawley has said that Unionists politicians off the record have stated that they didn't think he intended any offence. That's not to say he didn't cause a huge amount - he did.
Point 7 - see Christopher Stanford, and his tweet that he had to delete.
Point 8 - Would not say it is horseshit but certainly don't agree, no real moral high ground in all of this

general_lee

Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?
What do you mean "out of hand?" John O'Dowd's family suffered immense loss that same week in Jan 1976 so maybe he's in a better position to speak and empathise with Kingsmill relatives?

Armamike

On the face of it 3 months suspension isn't that big a deal but I'd say longer term Barry's career is over.
That's just, like your opinion man.

Rossfan

Quote from: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2018, 11:04:41 AM
I'd agree with Tony but Paisley disgusting remarks happened years ago and he's now dead.
Barry's idiocy happened last week so is all the rage.
3 months time it will be forgotten.
Meanwhile John O'Dowd was condemning Kingsmill out of hand the other night and Snarlene is in Killarney today to make some speech or other.
Choreography or coincidences?
What do you mean "out of hand?" John O'Dowd's family suffered immense loss that same week in Jan 1976 so maybe he's in a better position to speak and empathise with Kingsmill relatives?
Unreservedly
Categorically
Emphatically.
In no uncertain terms.
I know John had relatives brutally murdered too.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

T Fearon

Rossfan,Paisley may be dead,but Eugene Reavey isn't.His hurt continues,no progress in catching the murderers,and to have this hateful slur unretracted causes him deep pain.It would help if Arlene Foster or Ian Paisley Jnr apologised and acknowledged Paisley was wrong.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Quote from: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It's not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Are you trying to apply reasoned, measured logic to something in the north of Ireland?

6th sam

#4811
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 13, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 12:17:42 AM
Anyone who buys the 'he's too dumb to have done it on purpose' excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It's not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Are you trying to apply reasoned, measured logic to something in the north of Ireland?

I find this whole case bizarre , almost surreal. Whilst there has been no political progress in over a year, politicians have been exercised all week around this issue. The impassioned and dignified response from Kingsmills  family member, and John O'Dowd's heartfelt and empathic intervention has hopefully put an end to the cynical opportunism surrounding the incident.
Putting subjective political opinion to one side which of the 2 scenarios below is most likely?
1. The scenario painted by Niamh Mcilduff: her dad with a history of childishly putting items on his head ( dad humour) , Sent by her into a shop at midnight to get bread, Lifts the most popular brand in the shop and videos himself saying "Fred where's the bread,"  in line with a well known TV ad . He like most people was unaware of the 42nd anniversary of Kingsmills , and like most people doesn't connect kingsmill bread with the Kingsmills massacre, and as a republican , presumably deeply ashamed about Kingsmill's. Though known  as a" class clown" , Mcilduff Has no history of such repulsive coat-trailing behaviour . He's a university graduate , and politically sensitive ( as displayed by his early and fulsome apology) , and if he meant this , he would have been well aware that such a deliberate action would amount to political suicide.
2. The scenario painted by his political opponents and others (who apparently took 36 hours to be offended) , ie that he thought it would be a good idea , on the anniversary of One the most grotesque  atrocities of the troubles, which is an embarrassment to republicans, to callously mock victims and their families, and in the process lose the hard  earned credibility and affection he had developed From within the unionist community over several years, and completely fly in the face of the "equality & respect " agenda which is actively promoted by his party.

I have unqualified sympathy and respect for the Kingsmills families . Coming from a nationalist background I have always been deeply embarrassed and ashamed by massacres such as Kingsmills, which were purportedly perpetrated on behalf of my community.
And I think it's important that the Kingsmills families should be reassured that there is little doubt this was a childish humour and complete coincidence , and that there would be no truck in the nationalist republican community for anyone deliberately mocking this horrendous massacre.
Those who promote the alternative and ridiculously improbable scenario , do The Kingsmills bereaved no favours. They would be better served working tirelessly for victims and helping them to find truth and some degree of closure, rather than the cynical opportunism so typical of politics in the North.



Seany

Good post 6 Sams. If you look at it all logically and rationally, there is not on person who would want to glorify Kingsmills because it was one of the most shameful, sectarian acts of the troubles. And Barry McElduff doesn't post provocative political stuff on his twitter, he uses it to take the mickey out of himeslf. He is totally innocent and his treatment this last week was totally disgraceful. Those who told the kingsmills survivors and spun it to them that it was a callous mockery of their suffering have a lot to answer for. When NI fans do 'the bouncy', we take them at their word that they aren't mocking the killing of Robbie Hamill. When Orangemen sing of Dollies Brae, we take them at their word that they are not glorifying the deaths of 30 Catholics by Orangemen that day and then Unionists speak in glowing terms of the UVF, we take them at their word that they mean the 1912 version. some day we will reflect that the shameful act that occurred last was not what Barry did, but the disgraceful mob rule treatment of him by the media, by opportunistic unionis tpoliticians and of course, by the SDLP who had a gilt edged opportunity to diffuse the situation and reassure unionists that McElduff meant no harm at all, but chose to join the attack.

BennyCake

#4813
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre.

This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link. He should've used his loaf (pun intended) and picked a different loaf. Or better still, cop on.

foxcommander

Quote from: BennyCake on January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.
Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie