Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 380517 times)

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4860 on: January 13, 2018, 11:58:40 AM »
Rossfan,Paisley may be dead,but Eugene Reavey isn't.His hurt continues,no progress in catching the murderers,and to have this hateful slur unretracted causes him deep pain.It would help if Arlene Foster or Ian Paisley Jnr apologised and acknowledged Paisley was wrong.

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12663
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4861 on: January 13, 2018, 12:37:22 PM »
Agreed Tony.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14184
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4862 on: January 13, 2018, 02:26:41 PM »
Anyone who buys the ‘he’s too dumb to have done it on purpose’ excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It’s not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Are you trying to apply reasoned, measured logic to something in the north of Ireland?

6th sam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4863 on: January 13, 2018, 03:55:53 PM »
Anyone who buys the ‘he’s too dumb to have done it on purpose’ excuse must believe McElduff has the sort of incredible luck that would be better served in a bookmakers than a parliamentary office.

No one is silly enough for that excuse to fly, lads.
Right, expert. Explain to me, what benefit, political or otherwise, McElduff would have by deliberately tweeting something like this?

No nationalist or republican public representative would stand to benefit from behaviour of this nature. It’s not like when Unionists need a few extra votes, or or under pressure of some sort and they can resort to this sort of shite (albeit usually more subtle) in order to get a few votes or support from Loyalists.

You might not even have to wait until the end of the month for an example  this, when the flags of a certain BA regiment go up followed by predictable deafening silence

Are you trying to apply reasoned, measured logic to something in the north of Ireland?

I find this whole case bizarre , almost surreal. Whilst there has been no political progress in over a year, politicians have been exercised all week around this issue. The impassioned and dignified response from Kingsmills  family member, and John O’Dowd’s heartfelt and empathic intervention has hopefully put an end to the cynical opportunism surrounding the incident.
Putting subjective political opinion to one side which of the 2 scenarios below is most likely?
1. The scenario painted by Niamh Mcilduff: her dad with a history of childishly putting items on his head ( dad humour) , Sent by her into a shop at midnight to get bread, Lifts the most popular brand in the shop and videos himself saying “Fred where’s the bread,”  in line with a well known TV ad . He like most people was unaware of the 42nd anniversary of Kingsmills , and like most people doesn’t connect kingsmill bread with the Kingsmills massacre, and as a republican , presumably deeply ashamed about Kingsmill's. Though known  as a” class clown” , Mcilduff Has no history of such repulsive coat-trailing behaviour . He’s a university graduate , and politically sensitive ( as displayed by his early and fulsome apology) , and if he meant this , he would have been well aware that such a deliberate action would amount to political suicide.
2. The scenario painted by his political opponents and others (who apparently took 36 hours to be offended) , ie that he thought it would be a good idea , on the anniversary of One the most grotesque  atrocities of the troubles, which is an embarrassment to republicans, to callously mock victims and their families, and in the process lose the hard  earned credibility and affection he had developed From within the unionist community over several years, and completely fly in the face of the “equality & respect “ agenda which is actively promoted by his party.

 I have unqualified sympathy and respect for the Kingsmills families . Coming from a nationalist background I have always been deeply embarrassed and ashamed by massacres such as Kingsmills, which were purportedly perpetrated on behalf of my community.
And I think it’s important that the Kingsmills families should be reassured that there is little doubt this was a childish humour and complete coincidence , and that there would be no truck in the nationalist republican community for anyone deliberately mocking this horrendous massacre.
Those who promote the alternative and ridiculously improbable scenario , do The Kingsmills bereaved no favours. They would be better served working tirelessly for victims and helping them to find truth and some degree of closure, rather than the cynical opportunism so typical of politics in the North.


« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 04:20:02 PM by 6th sam »

Seany

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4864 on: January 13, 2018, 04:13:58 PM »
Good post 6 Sams. If you look at it all logically and rationally, there is not on person who would want to glorify Kingsmills because it was one of the most shameful, sectarian acts of the troubles. And Barry McElduff doesn’t post provocative political stuff on his twitter, he uses it to take the mickey out of himeslf. He is totally innocent and his treatment this last week was totally disgraceful. Those who told the kingsmills survivors and spun it to them that it was a callous mockery of their suffering have a lot to answer for. When NI fans do ‘the bouncy’, we take them at their word that they aren’t mocking the killing of Robbie Hamill. When Orangemen sing of Dollies Brae, we take them at their word that they are not glorifying the deaths of 30 Catholics by Orangemen that day and then Unionists speak in glowing terms of the UVF, we take them at their word that they mean the 1912 version. some day we will reflect that the shameful act that occurred last was not what Barry did, but the disgraceful mob rule treatment of him by the media, by opportunistic unionis tpoliticians and of course, by the SDLP who had a gilt edged opportunity to diffuse the situation and reassure unionists that McElduff meant no harm at all, but chose to join the attack.

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5242
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4865 on: January 13, 2018, 04:39:08 PM »
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre.

This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link. He should've used his loaf (pun intended) and picked a different loaf. Or better still, cop on.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 04:41:52 PM by BennyCake »

foxcommander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2311
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4866 on: January 13, 2018, 04:42:32 PM »
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.
Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

6th sam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4867 on: January 13, 2018, 05:15:27 PM »
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.

How can we possibly avoid all potential connections with incidents in the conflict . Do we ask U2 to change the name of “Sunday Bloody Sunday “. Do we change the name of the song “Enniskillen fusiliers”, do we change the name of the “Shankill Rd”, or “Sean Graham’s” bookies, and not mention any of these names in case we might offend ?
Or do we behave with maturity?
I think there’s a very clear distinction between :
1.using names in a normal fashion , or inadvertently,
or 2. Abusing those same names to cause offence.

Mcilduff’s sense of humour/class clown persona is well known , and to date had not caused offence. There is little doubt that the Mcilduff/Kingsmill scenario was a dreadfully unfortunate coincidence . It only became contentious when political opponents such as Jim Allister ( to be expected) and McCrossan whose intervention appeared opportunistic , jumped in.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:22:01 PM by 6th sam »

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14184
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4868 on: January 13, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.

How can we possibly avoid all potential connections with incidents in the conflict . Do we ask U2 to change the names of “Sunday Bloody Sunday “. Do we change the name of the song Enniskillen fusiliers, do we change the name of the shankill Rd, or Sean Graham’s bookies, and not mention any of these names in case we might offend ?
I think there’s a very clear distinction between 1.using names in a normal fashion , or inadvertently, or 2. Abusing those same names to cause offence.

Mcilduff’s sense of humour/class clown persona is well known , and to date had not caused offence, there is little doubt that the Kingsmill issue was a dreadfully unfortunate coincidence . It only became contentious when political opponents such as Jim Allister ( to be expected) and McCrossan whose intervention appeared opportunistic .

It's not hard to make an issue out of someone putting a loaf of Kingsmill bread on his head on the 42nd anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre. Stop trying to shift some of the blame to the unionists.

6th sam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4869 on: January 13, 2018, 05:43:28 PM »
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre. This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link.

If the name of the loaf of bread is offensive surely it shouldn't be on the shelves in Northern Ireland if that's the first image that springs to mind when you're buying it??

I'd like a loaf of protestant workmen massacre please.  Get the f**king name changed.

How can we possibly avoid all potential connections with incidents in the conflict . Do we ask U2 to change the names of “Sunday Bloody Sunday “. Do we change the name of the song Enniskillen fusiliers, do we change the name of the shankill Rd, or Sean Graham’s bookies, and not mention any of these names in case we might offend ?
I think there’s a very clear distinction between 1.using names in a normal fashion , or inadvertently, or 2. Abusing those same names to cause offence.

Mcilduff’s sense of humour/class clown persona is well known , and to date had not caused offence, there is little doubt that the Kingsmill issue was a dreadfully unfortunate coincidence . It only became contentious when political opponents such as Jim Allister ( to be expected) and McCrossan whose intervention appeared opportunistic .

It's not hard to make an issue out of someone putting a loaf of Kingsmill bread on his head on the 42nd anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre. Stop trying to shift some of the blame to the unionists.

Have you actually read these posts?
I’m not an apologist for McIlduff or his party. I’m just dealing with fact and giving a clear rationale for his off-the-cuff actions , and the calculated actions  of  opponents ( unionist & nationalist) who have a vested interest in demonising McIlduff.
Please don’t confuse me with others on this board, including yourself , who have turned this unfortunate incident into an irrelevant partitionist North v South cat fight .

Facts:
Kingsmill is a popular brand which most people don’t associate with the Kingsmills massacre
He has history of putting other items on his head
He has no history of mocking victims
Most people don’t know the date of anniversaries in the North( eg I am close to Loughinisland and I don’t know the date of the anniversary, much to my shame)
Those most vocally critical are those with most to gain

A just and appropriate response to this incident , would have been taking the opportunity to reflect on the dreadful pain inflicted on families in the conflict, and actively support victims , rather than stir the pot for political expediency .

armaghniac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11842
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4870 on: January 13, 2018, 05:55:09 PM »
The fact that he had a Kingsmill loaf on his head is the issue. Regardless of the anniversary it's still contentious. He, and thousands of others, knows the connection between the name of the loaf and the massacre.

This thing about him not meaning any offence is nonsense as he is fully aware of the link. He should've used his loaf (pun intended) and picked a different loaf. Or better still, cop on.

Kingsmill may be a popular brand, but McElduff should have had more sense than to tweet anything about Kingsmill given his previous involvement in controversy re the Raymond McCreesh park naming, given that a large part of the objection in that case is because McCreesh had a weapon used in Kingsmills. Likewise having done this, he should stay out of the way for the next 3 months

And as for having political sense, he was pictured at work in the SF office in Omagh after he had been suspended, which suggests that someone has no political sense.

If you are going to be a political representative then you must accept that you are in the public eye, and you should not be acting the clown in public. If you want to send your daughter a picture of you with a loaf on your head then use Whatsapp, not Twitter. Likewise having created this mess he should stay out of the way entirely for 3 months, go and walk the Camino or something.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:57:18 PM by armaghniac »
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

longballin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4871 on: January 13, 2018, 07:19:19 PM »
He probably grabbed a loaf and stuck it on his head rather than read the brand. Makes no sense at all that he would make fun about Kingsmill massacre as its not in his character and if he did was obvious what the uproar after would be...

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19923
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4872 on: January 13, 2018, 07:26:18 PM »
"He has a history of putting things on his head"

He is a public figure. He should drop the childishness
Jaysus would you shtop

longballin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4873 on: January 13, 2018, 07:30:30 PM »
"He has a history of putting things on his head"

He is a public figure. He should drop the childishness

can't disgree with that but a far cry from making joke about Kingsmill massacre

6th sam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
    • View Profile
Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #4874 on: January 13, 2018, 07:59:43 PM »
"He has a history of putting things on his head"

He is a public figure. He should drop the childishness

can't disgree with that but a far cry from making joke about Kingsmill massacre

Absolutely agree re the  behaviour of public representatives .
I dont get the humour, or the need to share it outside of his family .
However , the childishness of his actions is not what he was pilloried for .