Author Topic: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...  (Read 19964 times)

Minus15

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #195 on: May 24, 2023, 09:21:24 PM »
There's a correlation between parents as coaches and stronger players on teams for a reason. A coach who has an affinity for the game and willingness to coach usually means the family is football orientated or has a background in the game. That becomes bred into the children and part of their DNA from a young age. The kids love the game as its the environment they are used to. As a result they practise more, have a drive to get better and generally end up doing better than most early on at least.

You hear a lot about such and such a coach and their children are playing etc etc. It's nonsense. I would argue that sometimes the children of the coaches get a raw enough deal. Have seen it in GAA and soccer. Coaches more likely to be outwardly seen to be as fair as possible which sometimes means their own are the first to be subbed or do nets or whatever.

From the Bunker

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #196 on: May 24, 2023, 10:07:30 PM »
There's a correlation between parents as coaches and stronger players on teams for a reason. A coach who has an affinity for the game and willingness to coach usually means the family is football orientated or has a background in the game. That becomes bred into the children and part of their DNA from a young age. The kids love the game as its the environment they are used to. As a result they practise more, have a drive to get better and generally end up doing better than most early on at least.

You hear a lot about such and such a coach and their children are playing etc etc. It's nonsense. I would argue that sometimes the children of the coaches get a raw enough deal. Have seen it in GAA and soccer. Coaches more likely to be outwardly seen to be as fair as possible which sometimes means their own are the first to be subbed or do nets or whatever.

I speak from experience as I am on both sides of the coin in relation to local Gaelic football and Soccer teams when i talk of the following.

Coaches who are parents will give the benefit of the doubt and let their kid grow into a position. As with a lot of clubs there are Families who are part of the fabric, their kids will always get more leeway with coaches even if they are not their children. I have seen lads of equal ability go in complete different directions because of this bias.

Now there are lads who, no matter how many opportunities they get, they'll never come good. And there are lads no matter how much they are held back, they'll stick it out and get their chance.

Most coaches are waiting for the weak ones to gives up (unless it's their own son).

No amount of Goo Games or bringing in of rules will change this. It's just the way it is.

angermanagement

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #197 on: May 24, 2023, 11:15:36 PM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Armagh18

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #198 on: May 24, 2023, 11:44:45 PM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?
Rule should be if you donít train you go to back of the queue when it comes to playing.

As for the competition thing, some of my favourite childhood memories were winning blitzes (some bad ones from losing too of course but thats life lol)

Never beat the deeler

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #199 on: May 25, 2023, 12:10:49 AM »
It's an interesting debate - my kids are not sporting age just yet, and it's been a while since I played!

But a thought crossed my mind. The opinions in this forum for this topic may be a bit like assessing the bullet holes in the returned planes.
Most of the people who post here were never lost to the game.
To grow the game - even to stabilise with the increasing global pull of international sports - we should be trying to ensure the players who were traditionally lost to the game, are not lost to the game.

There are so many players who might not have been competitive as a 6,7,8,9 even 15 year old but who become great players or club people.
Would suggest that of those children, more of them stopped playing.

I didn't play from age approx 14/15 - 25 because they started bringing players from younger teams in to start ahead of me in 'important' games when we didn't have subs. I just gravitated towards other sports. It's a regret that I didn't stick at it, but 15 year old me didn't want the disappointment.
Hasta la victoria siempre

seafoid

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #200 on: May 25, 2023, 08:28:06 AM »
Presumable the go games concept will be extended to the Leinster Football Championship
Lookit

clonian

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #201 on: May 25, 2023, 08:36:57 AM »
It's an interesting debate - my kids are not sporting age just yet, and it's been a while since I played!

But a thought crossed my mind. The opinions in this forum for this topic may be a bit like assessing the bullet holes in the returned planes.
Most of the people who post here were never lost to the game.
To grow the game - even to stabilise with the increasing global pull of international sports - we should be trying to ensure the players who were traditionally lost to the game, are not lost to the game.

There are so many players who might not have been competitive as a 6,7,8,9 even 15 year old but who become great players or club people.
Would suggest that of those children, more of them stopped playing.

I didn't play from age approx 14/15 - 25 because they started bringing players from younger teams in to start ahead of me in 'important' games when we didn't have subs. I just gravitated towards other sports. It's a regret that I didn't stick at it, but 15 year old me didn't want the disappointment.

I was pretty close to being the same, couldn't get playing at 14 and only for a coach in the club coming to get me back out I was gone. He stuck me back in goals that year and I actually played a game for our seniors that season at 15. There probably was a few other things at play too but you can lose lads very easily.

I've been involved with teams from u6s up to u13s now, big ball and wee ball, and I've seen the good and bad of the tournament set up. Everybody keeps saying it's the parents or the odd coach that's the problem - well that's not going to get fixed by leaving everything as it is. In Down I thought the U11 football league works well but an odd one has lost their head in it too but better than the tournaments. In hurling there was the same but it's not as competitive on the sidelines, younger than that there's blitzes every couple of weeks and most go home happy.

The soccer was good too but as they've got older it's definitely more ruthless. Less crap on the sideline in my experience. The amount of da's running their 10 year old to Glenavon etc thinking this is the way to the premier league is nuts.

trailer

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #202 on: May 25, 2023, 08:46:36 AM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.


Milltown Row2

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #203 on: May 25, 2023, 08:59:11 AM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.

The parent can't take them!! 40 years ago, when the family was lucky to one car how did these kids get to training or the club? I can't remember my dad ever taking me to the club, which was about 2 miles or more away
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

trailer

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #204 on: May 25, 2023, 09:20:04 AM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.

The parent can't take them!! 40 years ago, when the family was lucky to one car how did these kids get to training or the club? I can't remember my dad ever taking me to the club, which was about 2 miles or more away

40 years ago there was no U8 or U10s. 40 years ago the roads were about 80% less busy. Not everyone lives in Belfast and about 200m from the club.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #205 on: May 25, 2023, 10:55:37 AM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.

The parent can't take them!! 40 years ago, when the family was lucky to one car how did these kids get to training or the club? I can't remember my dad ever taking me to the club, which was about 2 miles or more away

40 years ago there was no U8 or U10s. 40 years ago the roads were about 80% less busy. Not everyone lives in Belfast and about 200m from the club.

We had mentors that came around and collected the players in a mini bus, kids didn't need their mammys and daddy's to cart them around. The cotton wool generation generated by parents. There may not have been under 8's or 10's but I'd have been playing p5 at school and under 12 for club, no age restrictions either in those days.. Ah !! Life was simple, bar the rioting not many distractions
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

marty34

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #206 on: May 25, 2023, 12:10:32 PM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.

The parent can't take them!! 40 years ago, when the family was lucky to one car how did these kids get to training or the club? I can't remember my dad ever taking me to the club, which was about 2 miles or more away

40 years ago there was no U8 or U10s. 40 years ago the roads were about 80% less busy. Not everyone lives in Belfast and about 200m from the club.

We had mentors that came around and collected the players in a mini bus, kids didn't need their mammys and daddy's to cart them around. The cotton wool generation generated by parents. There may not have been under 8's or 10's but I'd have been playing p5 at school and under 12 for club, no age restrictions either in those days.. Ah !! Life was simple, bar the rioting not many distractions

Ahh, the helicopter parents!

johnnycool

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #207 on: May 25, 2023, 12:12:00 PM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.

The parent can't take them!! 40 years ago, when the family was lucky to one car how did these kids get to training or the club? I can't remember my dad ever taking me to the club, which was about 2 miles or more away

40 years ago there was no U8 or U10s. 40 years ago the roads were about 80% less busy. Not everyone lives in Belfast and about 200m from the club.

We had mentors that came around and collected the players in a mini bus, kids didn't need their mammys and daddy's to cart them around. The cotton wool generation generated by parents. There may not have been under 8's or 10's but I'd have been playing p5 at school and under 12 for club, no age restrictions either in those days.. Ah !! Life was simple, bar the rioting not many distractions

We'd the coach pick up kids at the side of the road with maybe 6 to 8 kids jammed into the cortina estate or hillman hunter and only two teams ever trained at our place, the U14's and once you were too old for them it was onto the main pitch with the seniors..

We've sanitised childhood in lots of good ways, but somewhere along the way we've lost ourselves as well.

DhoireTheas

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #208 on: May 25, 2023, 02:25:49 PM »
The biggest shame was making all underage competitions become All county competitions. There was a real pride in competing for South Derry honours. I have a few South Derry medals in the house which are good to have given that it changed to All county in 2008 even for the B and C leagues. They also used to have playoffs between North Derry and South Derry winners so you could become county champions but also do away with having to make long away trips to North Derry as a teen.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 02:31:04 PM by DhoireTheas »

DhoireTheas

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #209 on: May 25, 2023, 02:28:49 PM »
I can see both sides of the argument to an extent but coming from a coaches perspective kids need competition. Some of the best days my kids have been at tournaments in different counties, provinces. It built up a great comradery among the boys, boys from different schools gelled at these tournaments and friendships were made. Never won a tournament the boys couldn't tell you who won it but will remember the craic they had together.

When it comes to equal game time in principle I agree, but you've children showing up for go games who rarely train, you can tell they never practice at home but expect to play the same amount as some kids who never misses a session and you know is down the pitch practicing flat out and expect to get asked to play at the tournaments.

Is that fair on the kid who trains and practices?

Training is a tricky one. Firstly most kids want to go to training and maybe they don't attend because the parent can't take them. If a kid doesn't get to play then they are hardly encouraged to practice. I say equal game time up to u-12 anyway and where poss give weaker players more time, especially if the opposition is weaker.

The parent can't take them!! 40 years ago, when the family was lucky to one car how did these kids get to training or the club? I can't remember my dad ever taking me to the club, which was about 2 miles or more away

My father said recently that there was no training when he played under 16 football in the 1970s.