The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[armaghniac]

The lions have escaped and are devouring everything in sight.

There was a suggestion to hobble the lions, but the lionkeeper exercised a veto.

I haven't been too pessimistic in the past, but now they have definitely lost the plot.
Good summary here (from Irish economy)
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/orourke1/English

[johnpower]

This clip really explains it all in lay man terms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

brilliant

[lawnseed]

david cameron is playing a blinder. he knows there is strong opposition in britain to further european integration and gerneral disillusionment with the whole european project. the so called 'bulldog spirit' is alive and well on the streets of britain. on the other hand hes dependant on the 'namby pamby' pro-european lib dems to stay in power they will have to swallow what hes done and lose further credibility or break up the coalition forcing a gereral election. given the way 'the city' and the press will row in behind cameron because hes seen as protecting their interests from interferring eurocrats (and he actually is) and the total disaray of the labour party the tories will probably scrape enough votes in an election to aust the lib dems and form a government free from the restrictions of coalition.. then he can revisit the european problem by that time the path that britain will take will become clearer and whether or not they should become re-involved or maintain a safe distance or indeed if anti european.. anti immigrant.. anti brussels feeling has continued to rise they could pull out altogether. as net contributors to european funding britains see themselves as propping up hitherto failed european states just so they can dump their 'flotsum and jetsum' on the social services and poach british jobs back to lower cost economies. a change is comming

[muppet]

david cameron is playing a blinder. he knows there is strong opposition in britain to further european integration and gerneral disillusionment with the whole european project. the so called 'bulldog spirit' is alive and well on the streets of britain. on the other hand hes dependant on the 'namby pamby' pro-european lib dems to stay in power they will have to swallow what hes done and lose further credibility or break up the coalition forcing a gereral election. given the way 'the city' and the press will row in behind cameron because hes seen as protecting their interests from interferring eurocrats (and he actually is) and the total disaray of the labour party the tories will probably scrape enough votes in an election to aust the lib dems and form a government free from the restrictions of coalition.. then he can revisit the european problem by that time the path that britain will take will become clearer and whether or not they should become re-involved or maintain a safe distance or indeed if anti european.. anti immigrant.. anti brussels feeling has continued to rise they could pull out altogether. as net contributors to european funding britains see themselves as propping up hitherto failed european states just so they can dump their 'flotsum and jetsum' on the social services and poach british jobs back to lower cost economies. a change is comming

Tell me, are you in Sinn Féin's National Front wing long?

[lawnseed]

david cameron is playing a blinder. he knows there is strong opposition in britain to further european integration and gerneral disillusionment with the whole european project. the so called 'bulldog spirit' is alive and well on the streets of britain. on the other hand hes dependant on the 'namby pamby' pro-european lib dems to stay in power they will have to swallow what hes done and lose further credibility or break up the coalition forcing a gereral election. given the way 'the city' and the press will row in behind cameron because hes seen as protecting their interests from interferring eurocrats (and he actually is) and the total disaray of the labour party the tories will probably scrape enough votes in an election to aust the lib dems and form a government free from the restrictions of coalition.. then he can revisit the european problem by that time the path that britain will take will become clearer and whether or not they should become re-involved or maintain a safe distance or indeed if anti european.. anti immigrant.. anti brussels feeling has continued to rise they could pull out altogether. as net contributors to european funding britains see themselves as propping up hitherto failed european states just so they can dump their 'flotsum and jetsum' on the social services and poach british jobs back to lower cost economies. a change is comming

Tell me, are you in Sinn Féin's National Front wing long?

theyre not very fussed on paddy either at the moment

[muppet]

With apologies to An Spailpín............

David's 26 friends all decided to go to the pub. The pub is called The Piston Broke. However David decided that it wasn't in his bank manager's interests for him to go, so he exercised his veto. Now David's 26 friends are all in The Piston Broke, his bank manager will be there shortly and he is at home wondering if he will have to pay for some of the drinks.

[Rossfan]

Sure the Brits main role in the EU was to push the US's interests .

[bennydorano]

david cameron is playing a blinder. he knows there is strong opposition in britain to further european integration and gerneral disillusionment with the whole european project. the so called 'bulldog spirit' is alive and well on the streets of britain. on the other hand hes dependant on the 'namby pamby' pro-european lib dems to stay in power they will have to swallow what hes done and lose further credibility or break up the coalition forcing a gereral election. given the way 'the city' and the press will row in behind cameron because hes seen as protecting their interests from interferring eurocrats (and he actually is) and the total disaray of the labour party the tories will probably scrape enough votes in an election to aust the lib dems and form a government free from the restrictions of coalition.. then he can revisit the european problem by that time the path that britain will take will become clearer and whether or not they should become re-involved or maintain a safe distance or indeed if anti european.. anti immigrant.. anti brussels feeling has continued to rise they could pull out altogether. as net contributors to european funding britains see themselves as propping up hitherto failed european states just so they can dump their 'flotsum and jetsum' on the social services and poach british jobs back to lower cost economies. a change is comming

Bought the sunday times today to see their reaction (they've lurched so embarassingly to the right and in behind the tories that I've been giving it a miss lately), he certainly got no real plaudits from them, although the editorial was it's usual shite.

Personally speaking I no longer see the point of the European project, bar the benefits of having a free trade area I fail to see any other tangible benefits for the 'UK'.  (Cue a Monty Pythonesque list of what the Romans have done for us )

[lawnseed]

just watching the bbc news it seems near enough impossible to get any footage of david cameron without edna kenny lurking around behind him like stray dog

[thejuice]

Some creepy looking man on Bloomberg talking about the Irish and Euro economy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhveMreilw&feature=player_embedded

He's almost sitting on her lap.



Anyway he reckons we will say yes to a Euro referendum but by the sounds of it he'd rather we didn't have one.

[AQMP]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/dec/15/irish-voters-hobsons-choice-euro

Henry McDonald's take on any potential referendum issues facing Irish voters in the Guardian

The X Factor may be over in the UK for another year but a new contest has just started across the Irish Sea – The Fear Factor.

Michael Noonan, Ireland's finance minister, set the tone for the battle on RTÉ last night and it will be one shot through with the F-word.

Noonan warned that any new referendum on the outcome of last week's EU agreement (the one minus the Brits) would be centred on whether or not Ireland stays in the euro. Although the Fine Gael minister's remarks have provoked accusations from Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin that the government is engaged in early scaremongering, the tactic is a shrewd one.

The minister and the Fine Gael-Labour government know that a population worn down by austerity cuts in the last budget and still furious over the bailout of the country's hated banks might use any forthcoming referendum to punish the coalition.

In the event of a no vote the magnitude of the chaos across Europe would be far greater than when Ireland first rejected the Lisbon treaty. The stakes will not be higher when (it is no longer a question of If) the Irish go to the polls to ratify any new EU treaty coming out of last week's meeting in Brussels.

Given the serious crisis Ireland and the entire eurozone finds itself you can hardly blame Noonan and the rest of the cabinet for signalling that the next referendum will be a negative campaign.

In effect Irish voters will be faced with an economic/fiscal Hobson's choice: vote yes even if means a further dilution of sovereignty; vote no and you will probably end up junking your euro notes and coins for a currency pegged to sterling. The latter choice, the Dublin government will suggest, would mean essentially coming back under British influence 90 years after the state was founded following the Anglo-Irish treaty.

Framing the next referendum on Europe around the republic's continued presence in euro does indeed inject the fear factor into the campaign. Essentially it saying this to the Irish electorate: "In the 20th century you swapped one union, ie the connection with Britain, with another union, namely by joining the EU and becoming in fact one of the most passionately pro-European nations. By voting no you are in danger of reversing your history and sending the nation back into the arms of the British!"

In addition the government will point to the billions of euros the Europeans – principally the Germans – have pumped into the Irish economy, and ask if the country could continue to afford to pay its public servants and maintain its massive welfare bills it the Republic ejects itself from the new EU arrangements.

In short, Noonan's play on the Fear Factor is for real. It is admission of the real position Ireland finds itself in after the boom went bust – a nation that is vulnerable, dependant and weak vis-a-vis other more powerful EU states.

This may cause outrage and consternation about those of strong nationalist opinions in the Republic but the coalition will be hoping that a majority in Middle Ireland might hold their noses and vote yes on the new treaty because the alternative is even more unthinkable.

[Evil Genius]

Sure the Brits main role in the EU was to push the US's interests .

I think you'll find that our main role in the EU has always been to push the UK's interests, actually.

Or do you imagine that President Obama was happy to hear of Cameron's walkout last week:
"After meeting European Council President Herman Van Rompuy and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, President Obama said he was keen to see the eurozone crisis end."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8922122/Barack-Obama-says-US-willing-to-help-Europe-resolve-debt-crisis.html

I think your confusion may arise from the fact that unlike eg France (esp) and Germany, we in the UK have never taken a purely Euro-centric view of what constitutes our own self-interest.

On the contrary, we continue pay regard to events in all  parts of the world, especially those which were once our colonies... 

[Evil Genius]

In effect Irish voters will be faced with an economic/fiscal Hobson's choice: vote yes even if means a further dilution of sovereignty; vote no and you will probably end up junking your euro notes and coins for a currency pegged to sterling. The latter choice, the Dublin government will suggest, would mean essentially coming back under British influence 90 years after the state was founded following the Anglo-Irish treaty.

Noonan's "softening-up" of the electorate in anticipation of a Referendum is particularly interesting in the light of this recent comment by Enda:
Mr Kenny, who spoke to Prime Minister David Cameron on Tuesday night, said that Britain was "very often our staunchest ally at the European table".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16181844

So if ROI should vote "No", dear old Britain will be your safety net, then, eh?

Hmmm. Do you think we'll get back our "Three Green Fields" in time for the 1916 Centenary, or might it be neater to wait until 2021 to unite Ireland?

Again. 

[AQMP]

In effect Irish voters will be faced with an economic/fiscal Hobson's choice: vote yes even if means a further dilution of sovereignty; vote no and you will probably end up junking your euro notes and coins for a currency pegged to sterling. The latter choice, the Dublin government will suggest, would mean essentially coming back under British influence 90 years after the state was founded following the Anglo-Irish treaty.

Noonan's "softening-up" of the electorate in anticipation of a Referendum is particularly interesting in the light of this recent comment by Enda:
Mr Kenny, who spoke to Prime Minister David Cameron on Tuesday night, said that Britain was "very often our staunchest ally at the European table".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16181844

So if ROI should vote "No", dear old Britain will be your safety net, then, eh?

Hmmm. Do you think we'll get back our "Three Green Fields" in time for the 1916 Centenary, or might it be neater to wait until 2021, when we can finally end Partition in Ireland? 

I always knew the Nellie Dean's visit to the Garden of Remembrance was the thin end of the wedge!

[Evil Genius]

In effect Irish voters will be faced with an economic/fiscal Hobson's choice: vote yes even if means a further dilution of sovereignty; vote no and you will probably end up junking your euro notes and coins for a currency pegged to sterling. The latter choice, the Dublin government will suggest, would mean essentially coming back under British influence 90 years after the state was founded following the Anglo-Irish treaty.

Noonan's "softening-up" of the electorate in anticipation of a Referendum is particularly interesting in the light of this recent comment by Enda:
Mr Kenny, who spoke to Prime Minister David Cameron on Tuesday night, said that Britain was "very often our staunchest ally at the European table".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16181844

So if ROI should vote "No", dear old Britain will be your safety net, then, eh?

Hmmm. Do you think we'll get back our "Three Green Fields" in time for the 1916 Centenary, or might it be neater to wait until 2021, when we can finally end Partition in Ireland? 

I always knew the Nellie Dean's visit to the Garden of Remembrance was the thin end of the wedge!

Just think of it as "A viewing with the Estate Agent"...