Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[Zulu]

There maybe trouble in the camp AS but if I'm not mistaken there were some rumours about the Tyrone camp last year as well, and generally I find that after the first year or two, especially if trophy's haven't been won, personalities tend to clash. That isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'd hold fire until the end of this year before I'd start questioning JOM.

You are right to say Mayo haven't beaten anyone of note during his reign but the first year was always going to be difficult and last year Mayo ran Tyrone closer than anyone and IMO should really have won that game. Mayo should also have won the Connacht final only for some very poor misses in the last 10 minutes when ye were on top.

I think ye could do well this year but I'm not sure Mayo lads have a realistic view of what success for Mayo is, IMO it isn't winning an AI, rather it is showing improvement on last year and beginning to fill some of the problem positions. If Mayo avoid Tyrone and Kerry until the semi final stage then I think a semi final berth is a realistic goal and from there who knows but a semi final place or a good showing against Kerry or Tyrone if ye meet them beforehand would be a good showing for 2009 IMO.

[small white mayoman]

IMO JOM is saying MD isn't part of my long term plans so I'm going to work with the players who are and I'm going to try and find the right balance with these guys. Nallen and Heaney are different because they are defenders and are willing (I'd say) to be bit part players if that is what JOM wants.

There maybe trouble in the camp AS but if I'm not mistaken there were some rumours about the Tyrone camp last year as well, and generally I find that after the first year or two, especially if trophy's haven't been won, personalities tend to clash. That isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'd hold fire until the end of this year before I'd start questioning JOM.

You are right to say Mayo haven't beaten anyone of note during his reign but the first year was always going to be difficult and last year Mayo ran Tyrone closer than anyone and IMO should really have won that game. Mayo should also have won the Connacht final only for some very poor misses in the last 10 minutes when ye were on top.

I think ye could do well this year but I'm not sure Mayo lads have a realistic view of what success for Mayo is, IMO it isn't winning an AI, rather it is showing improvement on last year and beginning to fill some of the problem positions. If Mayo avoid Tyrone and Kerry until the semi final stage then I think a semi final berth is a realistic goal and from there who knows but a semi final place or a good showing against Kerry or Tyrone if ye meet them beforehand would be a good showing for 2009 IMO.

Which makes it all the more unusual to get rid of Mc the way he did. Why not have a player of mc s experience on the panel at least. I don'y understand this logic of building for the future .Last year was 2008 and if John O had better man management skills things could have been different. Like As said i have heard rumours about the mood in the camp not been great as well however i'll give John o the benefit of the doubt untill this year is out however we would want to see some improvement this year , like getting a settled team in place well before the championship this year and stop all this talk about needing time to rebuild and writing off our chance to the press before every championship game because at this stage i think the players are beginning to believe it . John o' has been given a smooth ride by both supportes and the local press the past 2 years something other managers in the past have not been given so now its time to see what he is made of as a manager

[Zulu]

You could argue all day and all night about the benefits and drawbacks of keeping any player on a panel and when it is someone like MD opinion will always be divided but JOM has to make the decision and he has made it, but it is unfair to blame every defeat on leaving MD off the panel. If Mayo don't have other footballers who could have kicked those opportunities then the problems are much bigger than MD.

As for building for the future, well every manager has to do that even if they are winning AI's, you don't walk into the job and 4 or 5 months later have your team picked for the next 3 years. JOM has certain problem positions and it takes time to sort them out, in fact sometimes you'll never sort them out because you don't have the players. That is why Mickey Harte wouldn't win AI's with two thirds of the counties in the country.

Mayo's real problem is that you don't have enough of big time scoring forwards and therefore you don't get enough out of your periods of dominance against the top teams. JOM can't solve that in the space of 1 or 2 years, I mean Austie O'Malley wouldn't even make the Kerry or Tyrone panel let alone team. And I seem to remember many Mayo posters giving out about the then Mayo coach (I think it was Maughan) for not giving him more game time but it turns out he was right, Austie isn't IC standard.

All I'm saying is give JOM time and space, I understand you want to win AI's but you'll never progress if everytime you get a new manager he gets abuse if he doesn't deliver an AI within 2 years. There is nothing wrong with giving a guy 4 or 5 years to get things right. How long did it take Sean Boylan to win his first one?

[Davitt Man]

This building for future idea is an excuse, he got rid of McD becasue he is building for the future well why the hell is Heaney and Nallen brought back every year?? You pick your best players and thats it.

[Zulu]

Nonsense, you have to have an eye on the future, look at Kerry after the great team of the 70's and early 80's. Like I say you can argue about the merits of playing MD but IMO opinion if you want to win AI's you have to build towards it and I wouldn't start either Nallen or Heaney again, they weren't good enough the last few years so they won't be good enough this year. Put in younger lads and let them find their feet, you won't win the AI either way this year but you might be a step closer next year by playing younger lads.

[the Deel Rover]

Nonsense, you have to have an eye on the future, look at Kerry after the great team of the 70's and early 80's. Like I say you can argue about the merits of playing MD but IMO opinion if you want to win AI's you have to build towards it and I wouldn't start either Nallen or Heaney again, they weren't good enough the last few years so they won't be good enough this year. Put in younger lads and let them find their feet, you won't win the AI either way this year but you might be a step closer next year by playing younger lads.

Zulu you say to give O'mahony time and space but he has been given this and has had his "contract" extended for another 3 years . With regard JImmy he was probably mayo's best player in the championship last year and i'm not saying that because he is from cross i'm sure a lot of other posters on here would agree. As regards changing of managers we have only had 4 since 1996 Maughan , Holmes, Moran, O ' mahony not to bad for 14 years. In fairness the expectations of mayo supporters is the lowest i can ever recall thats just my opinion

[Davitt Man]

Im not saying you shouldnt build for the future of course you have to blood new lads all the time.

What i meant was people are using this excuse of "building for the future" as s reason for shafting McD even though Nallen and Heaney are in the squad.

[RedandGreenSniper]

It's not healthy to be going over the McDonald saga again.

But I think what's important to remember are two things

McDonald didn't make the situation easy by not being involved from an earlier stage and also by not responding to the text message.

O'Mahony erred by not arranging to meet with McDonald. The text message was a very poor method of communication. At the time I said there was a method to is. As Zulu says O'Mahony didn't want McDonald involved because he wanted to build for the future and felt McDonald's inclusion might hold back the development of other players because everything is centred around him when he is playing. I didn't agree with that but I was willing to trust his judgement on the issue.

Now, nine or so months on, I'm a bit more cynical. I'd be of the opinion that O'Mahony didn't want McDonald involved was because he knew he would take a bit of man management, something O'Mahony is capable of. But I get the feeling O'Mahony's heart isn't in this job and plamaising McDonald is something he feels he couldn't be bothered doing. He does carry the demenour (sp) of someone who is fed up.

I really hope I'm wrong but I'm not full of hope

[moysider]

It's not healthy to be going over the McDonald saga again.

But I think what's important to remember are two things

McDonald didn't make the situation easy by not being involved from an earlier stage and also by not responding to the text message.

O'Mahony erred by not arranging to meet with McDonald. The text message was a very poor method of communication. At the time I said there was a method to is. As Zulu says O'Mahony didn't want McDonald involved because he wanted to build for the future and felt McDonald's inclusion might hold back the development of other players because everything is centred around him when he is playing. I didn't agree with that but I was willing to trust his judgement on the issue.

Now, nine or so months on, I'm a bit more cynical. I'd be of the opinion that O'Mahony didn't want McDonald involved was because he knew he would take a bit of man management, something O'Mahony is capable of. But I get the feeling O'Mahony's heart isn't in this job and plamaising McDonald is something he feels he couldn't be bothered doing. He does carry the demenour (sp) of someone who is fed up.

I really hope I'm wrong but I'm not full of hope

I m not going over the whole MacD debate again. I wrote enough about it last year and I don't see any reason to change my views. Amazes me though that some people still think it was part of some great rebuilding scheme that would pay dividends in a few years time. That likes of Killer and Austie would improve on one of our best players ever. Laughable. There is no perestroika in Mayo football. O Mahoney is no Gorbachev. At no stage has he looked like he had a plan.

There was a photo in the Indo during the week of the team pics from the 1994 Connacht Colleges Senior A final. 6 of the lads that played that day were on the Galway senior team that won 98 All Ireland. Tomás Meehan, Divilly, Declan Meehan ( 2001 team) Padraig and Tommie Joyce, Donnellan ( all St Jarlath's) and Savage with St. Pats. That was the blue print for Galway's success.

On a different note it appears that Enda Devenney has transferred to St. John's in Sligo. Enda only bothered to play junior club last yaer but if he regains interest and form he could well feature for the All Blacks . He s one of a massive exodus from the Stephenites this year. As many as half dozen lads transfering or going abroad for at least this year.

[rosnarun]

what basis are you saying that JOM has failed over the past 2 years? And what in your opinion would be a successful 2009?

her are kust a few
the 1st basis of o'mahoneys failure was the humiliation against a very average derry team in his 1st year in charge.(at least before that it took all ireland winners to do that to us)
his failure to beat galway or anyone meaningful in the championship ,
Mayos new habit of losing games they should clearly have won(see your own post for examples there are many more from last year)
the quenching of hope in so many mayo fans expectations.

what would be a success?  some of the below maybe
Know and ensure his best 15 are availble for the championship with no excuses
winning the connaught championship
beating galway or anyone meaningful in the championship
mature enough good young players playing in a style to make mayo believe they are going forward not back.
Be very competitive in every game mayo play
not lose to new york (just to give him a chance of getting one of them)
failing that a messy all ireland final win

[Tubberman]

I read in today's Independent that Mayo lost to Cork in a challenge match over the weekend.
Was anyone at it or know any of the details - who was playing etc?

I'm looking forward to the National League getting underway on Sunday. There has been a lot of pessimism (most of it understandable), so it will be interesting to see if the lack of enthusiasm among the supporters is also a feature among the squad, or if the rumours turn out to be idle talk because of a lack of any matches to discuss

[Farrandeelin]

I'm clinging to the pessimistic hope, in that nobody is expecting anything from Mayo this year and they might surprise us all!

[mannix]

I doubt anyone will be surprised by Mayo this year.

[Davitt Man]

No one is expecting miracles, what we are expecting though

1.  A settled team, with the spine of the team picked early and left to it
2.  A good attitude and never give up attitude
3.  Players & management to do their talking on the pitch and no bitching sessions in the papers

[mannix]

davitt man, i agree 100%. Last year there was a very amateur approach by one or two lads in both word and action, they need to see the bigger picture, 100s of thousands of people are watching their every move and hoping they land Sam Maguire someday soon.I hope they surprise us but hope is the key word.