Down Club Hurling & Football

[imagine]

Starred fixtures and the move to Friday night coincided with the demise of our County team.

[thewobbler]

Jesus Christ I've heard it all now. Down's fall from grace wasn't down to these factors:

- Armagh getting a once in a century crop of players.
- Tyrone doing likewise, and building an infrastructure to stay on the pedestal.
- Donegal and Monaghan matching that infrastructure and techniques.
- An unwillingness by a succession of Down senior managers to employ the necessary tactics to beat any of the teams above.
- That between 2000 and 2009, not one single Down player put in an individually outstanding season worthy of being nominated for an All Star.
- The shocking way that the players and management surrendered meekly in the back door for the first 5-6 years of the format.
- The abysmal lack of county team playing facilities in the county.
- The appalling youth structures that have delivered precisely 0 Ulster minor titles in 17 years.

No, apparently it's all due to club matches being played on Friday nights and county players getting a reduction in their demands during championship time.

f**king madness.

You might as well trace our failings back to the PIRA ceasefire of 1995, or the rise of the ROI soccer team during the early nineties.

I hate the internet because it means bonkers foolish shit like this actually gets aired for everyone to see.


-----

Re the starred system, it was created to protect the clubs who contribute to county football.

Before it happened, the club season was a horrendous, disjointed, never-ending mess of cancellations, postponements and objections. The deaths of distant club men were routinely used to force a postponement during the county season.

The playoffs, particularly the relegation playoffs, are the most vital part of this arrangement. Ultimately, these are used to decide among peers, who is most fit to stay in a division, when all things are equal in terms of commitments.

Trust me, the last thing Down football needs is a team that is awash with County players, dropping down to division 2. It is utterly demoralising for a D2 team to face them, and from a player development perspective is a huge step backwards.

Similarly you don't want a team with one outstanding talent, dropping into D4, as nobody will be able to mark him.

But the most important thing is that due to the starred system, and ONLY because of it, the leagues "proper" haven't gone past October in 20 years, and our summers have been stuffed full of club games throughout. It's been an extraordinary positive for club footballers.

[Ed Hardy]

Jesus Christ I've heard it all now. Down's fall from grace wasn't down to these factors:

- Armagh getting a once in a century crop of players.
- Tyrone doing likewise, and building an infrastructure to stay on the pedestal.
- Donegal and Monaghan matching that infrastructure and techniques.
- An unwillingness by a succession of Down senior managers to employ the necessary tactics to beat any of the teams above.
- That between 2000 and 2009, not one single Down player put in an individually outstanding season worthy of being nominated for an All Star.
- The shocking way that the players and management surrendered meekly in the back door for the first 5-6 years of the format.
- The abysmal lack of county team playing facilities in the county.
- The appalling youth structures that have delivered precisely 0 Ulster minor titles in 17 years.

No, apparently it's all due to club matches being played on Friday nights and county players getting a reduction in their demands during championship time.

f**king madness.

You might as well trace our failings back to the PIRA ceasefire of 1995, or the rise of the ROI soccer team during the early nineties.

I hate the internet because it means bonkers foolish shit like this actually gets aired for everyone to see.


-----

Re the starred system, it was created to protect the clubs who contribute to county football.

Before it happened, the club season was a horrendous, disjointed, never-ending mess of cancellations, postponements and objections. The deaths of distant club men were routinely used to force a postponement during the county season.

The playoffs, particularly the relegation playoffs, are the most vital part of this arrangement. Ultimately, these are used to decide among peers, who is most fit to stay in a division, when all things are equal in terms of commitments.

Trust me, the last thing Down football needs is a team that is awash with County players, dropping down to division 2. It is utterly demoralising for a D2 team to face them, and from a player development perspective is a huge step backwards.

Similarly you don't want a team with one outstanding talent, dropping into D4, as nobody will be able to mark him.

But the most important thing is that due to the starred system, and ONLY because of it, the leagues "proper" haven't gone past October in 20 years, and our summers have been stuffed full of club games throughout. It's been an extraordinary positive for club footballers.

See if you think playing football on Friday nights and boys drinking the head of themselves all weekend hasn't effected the county team then your heads clearly away with it..  The standard of club football has dropped dramatically in Down, especially in the lower divisions!

[thewobbler]

Okay, so now the problem with Down football is drink related? somehow we've created a system that turns average club footballers into ranging alcoholics? And that despite having entire summers without a club fixture, those rural Donegal footballers never turn to the stuff?

Some of you folks are so busy looking for excuses that you've forgotten what  the problem is.

[imagine]

Okay, so now the problem with Down football is drink related? somehow we've created a system that turns average club footballers into ranging alcoholics? And that despite having entire summers without a club fixture, those rural Donegal footballers never turn to the stuff?

Some of you folks are so busy looking for excuses that you've forgotten what  the problem is.

What is "the problem"?

[thewobbler]

Okay, so now the problem with Down football is drink related? somehow we've created a system that turns average club footballers into ranging alcoholics? And that despite having entire summers without a club fixture, those rural Donegal footballers never turn to the stuff?

Some of you folks are so busy looking for excuses that you've forgotten what  the problem is.

What is "the problem"?

The widening gap between Down football teams and success.

[bridgegael]

There is a few boys here on the beer now I think

[rosskarr]

There is a few boys here on the beer now I think

As long as the Bridge's bar makes a profit at the end of the year never mind the silverware.

[interested]

Okay, so now the problem with Down football is drink related? somehow we've created a system that turns average club footballers into ranging alcoholics? And that despite having entire summers without a club fixture, those rural Donegal footballers never turn to the stuff?

Some of you folks are so busy looking for excuses that you've forgotten what  the problem is.

What is "the problem"?

The widening gap between Down football teams and success.

Play the Senior games and reserves on the same day as the more successful counties do and forget about Super Sundays on sky TV.

You all should admit that Sundays are good for lazing about watching Sky Sports and the foreign game.Good wins for Swansea and Chelsea today while our "stand up"rugby colleagues in the other foreign game failed to qualify for the knock-out stages of Europe :-

The sooner the NFL starts the better to get rid of this bullsh-tting that's been written over the past month.

[whitegoodman]

Amen to that

[GAAHEAD1960]

12 teams in first and second division (or so i'm lead to believe). Home and away draws meaning 22 games per team this season . There were 15 games per team last year and there was bother getting these games fitted into the schedule. Gonna be tight going.

[Blue Island]

Hopefully there will be no starred games, and those teams that finish top of their respective leagues are declared the winners and those that finish bottom are relegated. Let's get away from the absurd notion that a team finishing third can ultimately be declared champions after a play of and such games are played under lights in October.

Lol

There is genuinely only one problem with the starred system, being that it has been around so long now that twits like you have absolutely no idea/recollection of all the problems it solved.

I played under both systems and it may have solved one problem but created another. I can recall the back log of games in and around that time. I played against Burren in a league final on New Years Day such was the backlog and the pitch was frozen solid. I was all far the starred system at that time and I can fully understand why the county board made the decision to introduce the starred system.

However, the quality of football matches thereafter certainly diminished. Before the starred system you only had ten team divisions and if you lost a few matches at the start of the year you were in real trouble. Consequently, the matches were of a high intensity and because they were played with the county players the standard was higher.  I concede some matches at the end of the season were dead rubbers, but I do think it would be better for the County if we were playing at a higher intensity and standard at the start of the year when the county is still involved, rather than at the end of the season. Playing with the starred season as it is is playing with a psychological safety net.

I agree with you there are other issues maybe as important that need addressed, but the starred system as it stands is flawed. I would suggest reducing the division back to ten (fewer but higher quality games) and having a very limited number of starred games. Perhaps the top two could playoff for the title.

[6th sam]

Similarly BI , I played under both systems, & wobbler is right the fact that loads of club players spent weeks twiddling their thumbs waiting the next game , is of itself enough justification for the starred system. I think it was the brainchild of Trixie Dougherty who had experience of club county and schools football and was therefore acutely aware of the needs of players & managers. It is an ingenious system, so good that it has remained untouched since. However like all good concepts, it can be improved further. As evidenced by the ulster/AI chsmpionships, NFL and even this weekend's Mckenna cup fare, the Intercounty game is our showpiece , and enables promotion of our games, county pride and spectator/TV following which the club game can't match. The club game on the other hand , brilliantly provides for competitive participation and club rivalry for thousands. In my opinion the success of both aspects of the GAA is not mutually exclusive.
We should provide a system which:
1.provides regular scheduled , weekly games for our thousands of exclusively club players.
2.provides regular Intercounty games for all counties to enable them to avail of the promotional positivity of county games, in our excellent but underused stadia .
3. Legislate to Protect county players from
Overuse
4. Ensure that there are blocks of several games for clubs when their county men are available so that these clubs can enjoy seeing their county men regularly representing the club that reared them.

All the above require a national fixtures programme , with blocks of county games( when club league games go ahead without 25 named county players) . Then blocks of club championship games ( when all county players are available.)
In effect this is a modification of the starred system with the added bonus of protecting county players, and ensuring weekly club games.

This actually means that club and county players would be exposed to more competitive games but less training.

The club calendar should be completed within the calendar year eg Loughinisland would have proceeded straight to AI semi after their Ulster victory. I think the Christmas break until club AI series, doesn't suit anyone well.

[thewobbler]

Blue Island, I agree entirely with you about 10 team leagues - we undoubtedly saw an increased intensity in football for a couple of seasons when they were briefly introduced at turn of this decade.

But i don't think - being pragmatic - that 10 team leagues and the starred system are the one discussion. The former is about raising standards, the latter is about ensuring that club fixtures move forward regardless of how successful the county team is.

The problem with 10 teams is that even though everybody knows it's better for footballing standards and better for fixture congestion, when push comes to shove, the majority of clubs would prefer to play in a weakened higher division than a stronger lower division. They seem to regard the possibility of playing a season or two at a division below, akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.

They know this too. Which is why sometimes democracy isn't the right solution!

6th Sam, I'm pretty sure you and me have had this discussion before, and the reality is that until the county game is fenced off into sections then nothing else is possible.

Re a few of the discussions above:

- the day that a fixture is played, and the fact that a B game happens before it, has absolutely no impact on its intensity. Successful counties don't arise from watching reserve football. They arise because their senior club footballers will do anything for success.

- related to that, if your club is suffering from an all-weekend drink culture, and you reckon that this is due to an external problem such as fixture scheduling, and not an internal one with attitudes towards drink, then you are wildly mistaken.

[rosskarr]

Blue Island, I agree entirely with you about 10 team leagues - we undoubtedly saw an increased intensity in football for a couple of seasons when they were briefly introduced at turn of this decade.

But i don't think - being pragmatic - that 10 team leagues and the starred system are the one discussion. The former is about raising standards, the latter is about ensuring that club fixtures move forward regardless of how successful the county team is.

The problem with 10 teams is that even though everybody knows it's better for footballing standards and better for fixture congestion, when push comes to shove, the majority of clubs would prefer to play in a weakened higher division than a stronger lower division. They seem to regard the possibility of playing a season or two at a division below, akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.

They know this too. Which is why sometimes democracy isn't the right solution!

6th Sam, I'm pretty sure you and me have had this discussion before, and the reality is that until the county game is fenced off into sections then nothing else is possible.

Re a few of the discussions above:

- the day that a fixture is played, and the fact that a B game happens before it, has absolutely no impact on its intensity. Successful counties don't arise from watching reserve football. They arise because their senior club footballers will do anything for success.

- related to that, if your club is suffering from an all-weekend drink culture, and you reckon that this is due to an external problem such as fixture scheduling, and not an internal one with attitudes towards drink, then you are wildly mistaken.

long as the Harp's bar makes a profit at the end of the year never mind the silverware.