Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

Ed Ricketts

Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)
Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

Both correct.

If the idea is to go down this tiered route, then it needs to be done properly with three tiers. Counties around 9-16 will remain no hopers in the top tier. And counties down at 25-32/33 will remain uncompetitive in the second tier.

Two tiers is half an idea, just like most out of Croke Park.
Doc would listen to any kind of nonsense and change it for you to a kind of wisdom.

Captain Obvious

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on September 17, 2019, 11:02:42 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)
Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

Both correct.

If the idea is to go down this tiered route, then it needs to be done properly with three tiers. Counties around 9-16 will remain no hopers in the top tier. And counties down at 25-32/33 will remain uncompetitive in the second tier.

Two tiers is half an idea, just like most out of Croke Park.

If it was to be done properly the NFL would be made more important as that is our tiered competition already in place.

From the Bunker

The Ladies version of tiered this year!

Senior Championship


Cork      
Armagh   
Cavan   
Dublin   
Waterford   
Monaghan   
Galway   
Kerry   
Westmeath
Mayo      
Tyrone   
Donegal   


Intermediate championship


Sligo   3   
Kildare   
Down   
Limerick   
Tipperary   
Meath   
Wicklow   
Longford   
Wexford   
Clare   2   
Laois   2   
Roscommon   
Offaly   
Leitrim   


Junior Championship


Louth   
London   
Carlow
Fermanagh   
Antrim   
Derry   

LeoMc

Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)

Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

What it there to motivate them now? We have 1 tier and tankings occur regularly even in the so caller Super 8's.

sligoman2

#1024
Quote from: LeoMc on September 18, 2019, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)

Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

What it there to motivate them now? We have 1 tier and tankings occur regularly even in the so caller Super 8's.

Think about this,
every county will still have at least one chance to win an all-ireland final (at the highest level).

Every county will still have a chance to win a provisional championship

The only difference is instead of being knocked out in one (or maybe two) rounds of the qualifiers the weaker counties now have a realistic shot at winning an All Ireland (tier 2).

It makes sense to me, as I've said before however I think the winners should be allowed back into the tier 1 competition but that might not be possible due to scheduling issues. 

Looking at the poll results it seems the majority are in favour of the proposal.  Change comes slow in the GAA but give Horan credit, he sees the big picture.



I think this is a good proposal, it's gives team more realistic chance of silverware
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

Hound

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 18, 2019, 01:12:28 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 18, 2019, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)

Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

What it there to motivate them now? We have 1 tier and tankings occur regularly even in the so caller Super 8's.

Think about this,
every county will still have at least one chance to win an all-ireland final (at the highest level).

Every county will still have a chance to win a provisional championship

The only difference is instead of being knocked out in one (or maybe two) rounds of the qualifiers the weaker counties now have a realistic shot at winning an All Ireland (tier 2).

It makes sense to me, as I've said before however I think the winners should be allowed back into the tier 1 competition but that might not be possible due to scheduling issues. 

Looking at the poll results it seems the majority are in favour of the proposal.  Change comes slow in the GAA but give Horan credit, he sees the big picture.

I think this is a good proposal, it's gives team more realistic chance of silverware

Reluctant to comment on this as I think it should be the players and fans of the Div 3 and 4 teams who decide. But there was a guy on OTB (didn't catch who it was) and he completely slammed it and pretty much railroaded Emlyn Mulligan into agreeing with him.

His main problem was the provincial backdoor. It's much harder for Derry to make the provincial final than Sligo. But, so what, that's luck of the draw, you could end up with 4 worst teams in Ulster in the same half. Sligo could have to beat Galway and Mayo to get to a final, or they could have to beat London and Leitrim. It's a very minor point to argue about. If a team is that determined that they should be in Tier 1, then all they have to do is get promoted to the Second Division of the league.

I'm not sure I agree with the provincial final backdoor, I'd leave it to winners only. But a team that wins Tier 2 should definitely be automatically into Tier 1 the following year, as if they were a Div 1/2 team. 

Cunny Funt

Quote from: sligoman2 on September 18, 2019, 01:12:28 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 18, 2019, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)

Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

What it there to motivate them now? We have 1 tier and tankings occur regularly even in the so caller Super 8's.

Think about this,
every county will still have at least one chance to win an all-ireland final (at the highest level).

Every county will still have a chance to win a provisional championship

The only difference is instead of being knocked out in one (or maybe two) rounds of the qualifiers the weaker counties now have a realistic shot at winning an All Ireland (tier 2).

It makes sense to me, as I've said before however I think the winners should be allowed back into the tier 1 competition but that might not be possible due to scheduling issues. 

Looking at the poll results it seems the majority are in favour of the proposal.  Change comes slow in the GAA but give Horan credit, he sees the big picture.



I think this is a good proposal, it's gives team more realistic chance of silverware

You realize that the GAA president is a figurehead 3 year position? In Horan's case he's been a great mouthpiece for a second tier which those in HQ with power have been pushing hard to get in place as soon as possible and regardless what the players and managers of the "lesser" teams think.

Rossfan

Haven't heard or seen many objections from the "lesser teams" managers or players.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

BennyCake

Quote from: LeoMc on September 18, 2019, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM
If there is two tiers what is to motivate the lesser counties in the top tier?

Take Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and possibly Donegal out of it and the Dubs will hockey every other team by double figures who are also in the top tier (they will beat those 4 mentioned teams by 5-9 points usually on any given day)

Quote from: BennyCake on September 16, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Galway etc are around 7th-10th ranked last few years. Each have been stuffed by Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc last few years.

Whats to motivate those players to participate in the HIGHEST tier? Never mind the lower tiers. The tankings will still take place in Tier 1.

What it there to motivate them now? We have 1 tier and tankings occur regularly even in the so caller Super 8's.

Yes, but all along it's been little Leitrim, Waterford, Antrim etc getting stuffed, and we need a tiered system because they clearly can't compete with the big boys.

Brolly sat on TSG earlier in the championship and moaned about Div 4 Antrim getting stuffed by Div 1 Tyrone, and that they should be in a B championship because they can't compete. Yet a week or two before, Div 4 Derry pushed Div 1 Tyrone all the way in their clash, but he never mentioned that.

The bottom tier teams will never make anything from being there, because HQ won't be funding them. They'll just tell us, ah sure that's just where they are, that's their level, they need to get off their arses and sort it out. Eventually tier 2 will drift off into oblivion, never to be seen again. But they don't bring in huge revenue to the GAA anyway, so they don't care. They already have their tier 1/Super 8/ Champions League groups cash cows.

Tier 1 will consist of the massive-funded Dublin, and 4/5 on a similar level that won't be catching the Dubs. The other 10 counties below the top 6 will be treated the same as the tier 2 teams - ie. get up off your arses and sort it out. They'll get no funding either.

seafoid

A second tier won't address the ongoing crisis in GF which is the Dublin situation.

The GAA probably needs a citizens Assembly , similar to what they had for the abortion referendum 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

sligoman2

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

Rossfan

Would have made sense to hold on till the Review group reported.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Blowitupref

Rushing any new format in is a wrong way to do things. Always interesting to hear the views from players that may end up playing in the 2nd tier.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/gaelic-football-news/tier-two-proposal-special-report-20317254
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2019, 01:35:35 PM
Would have made sense to hold on till the Review group reported.
That's the problem. What happens if the Review comes up with something different?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi