Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[The Bearded One]

yes i beilieve mattie donnelly was marking kelly yet   i presume he was told by management to run back and stand in front of full back line. this allowed kelly to get plenty of space and kick 3 points and nearly another before tyrone changed things. Player or managements fault?

Presume lol?? As far as my eyes could see, Matty was the closest person to Kelly on two of his scores...McCann possibly the third.

One of my biggest issues is the lack of urgency and aggression with this zonal defence system, opponents can play about outside the 45 line at their will without a glove touching them. I might be wrong, but I have noticed some movement away from this tactic already this year with increased pressure out the field. There are small signs of change and this won't happen in one foul sweep, a little patience for now and see how it materialises in the summer.

[bigpackiechestout]

yes i beilieve mattie donnelly was marking kelly yet   i presume he was told by management to run back and stand in front of full back line. this allowed kelly to get plenty of space and kick 3 points and nearly another before tyrone changed things. Player or managements fault?

Presume lol?? As far as my eyes could see, Matty was the closest person to Kelly on two of his scores...McCann possibly the third.

One of my biggest issues is the lack of urgency and aggression with this zonal defence system, opponents can play about outside the 45 line at their will without a glove touching them. I might be wrong, but I have noticed some movement away from this tactic already this year with increased pressure out the field. There are small signs of change and this won't happen in one foul sweep, a little patience for now and see how it materialises in the summer.

Agreed, I can definitely see progress and again thought it was noticeable on Saturday that we were leaving more men up. As well as Lee and Skeet, Sludden spent a fair bit of time in the full forward line, and Petey Harte spent some time closer to goal. These changes in style take time however my one worry is whether a relegation would have a significant impact on the confidence and morale of the team going into the summer. For that reason the Donegal game is massive (although in light of the heavy snow predicted for this week it is likely to be moved to St Paddys weekend).

Another concern is Petey Harte's form, we can't seem to get him on the ball enough. He is spending most of his time in the half forward line this year, I'm wondering does this not suit him as he prefers to be running on to the ball more?

Also on the above point on Richy Donnelly, I agree he played a lot of bad kick passes into the full forward line at the weekend however it is a positive that we had someone getting the ball around the middle looking for that first time ball in. I assume he is in the team because he has shown in training he is capable of playing good passes in (I'm also thinking of his ball in for O'Neill's first goal v Derry in championship 2016) and so hopefully this will come good as the year progresses. Bear in mind Richy has had rotten luck with injuries the past few years and to my memory has never had a proper run of games at senior county level so I'm not rushing to judgement on him yet

[Fuzzman]

Has anyone else noticed how much scores we're conceding despite playing so many bodies back?
Is there a general lack of ownership now in who is marking who or are they all just marking space and if someone come into that zone you tackle him.

I think often defenders think I can't make a good clean tackle here so I'll let the next man pick him up.

It all seems to be that the attitude this year is feck the GAA in the winter months and lets just make it to the last 8 and then we'll start playing like Mayo, Kerry and the Dubs do but you can't just cruise through Ulster though many would say we did last year.

Seems unreal Mark Bradley isn't the 1st forward on the team sheet as he is so mobile and slippery

[sensethetone]

Has anyone else noticed how much scores we're conceding despite playing so many bodies back?
Is there a general lack of ownership now in who is marking who or are they all just marking space and if someone come into that zone you tackle him.

I think often defenders think I can't make a good clean tackle here so I'll let the next man pick him up.

It all seems to be that the attitude this year is feck the GAA in the winter months and lets just make it to the last 8 and then we'll start playing like Mayo, Kerry and the Dubs do but you can't just cruise through Ulster though many would say we did last year.

Seems unreal Mark Bradley isn't the 1st forward on the team sheet as he is so mobile and slippery

When on form Mark Bradley can lift the crowd nobody else can.

[bigpackiechestout]

Has anyone else noticed how much scores we're conceding despite playing so many bodies back?
Is there a general lack of ownership now in who is marking who or are they all just marking space and if someone come into that zone you tackle him.

I think often defenders think I can't make a good clean tackle here so I'll let the next man pick him up.

It all seems to be that the attitude this year is feck the GAA in the winter months and lets just make it to the last 8 and then we'll start playing like Mayo, Kerry and the Dubs do but you can't just cruise through Ulster though many would say we did last year.

Seems unreal Mark Bradley isn't the 1st forward on the team sheet as he is so mobile and slippery

When on form Mark Bradley can lift the crowd nobody else can.

Also agree with this but I'm afraid Bradley and Lee just can't play together in a two man full forward line. They are both small and left-footed and neither is a consistent ball winner. Personally I think Bradley is the better player but if we have to choose one Lee also deserves a run of games and is the better free taker.

However with our style of play if we can't currently fit Bradley into the side I do think it would be worthwhile giving him a game or two at 11. He was great in this role for us in 2015 and played there for Jordanstown recently in the Sigerson. I like Sludden but he has a serious tendency for kicking wides and I think Bradley would be a more reliable scorer in this role, while Sludden could be just as effective at wing back or wing forward.

[Club boi]

This is thread is getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage. Any chance of just debating the football?

You can blame Mickey Harte all you want for a one point loss to Monaghan....but is it his fault that Richard Donnelly kicked ball after ball into a sweepers hands all night? Is he to blame for Niall Morgan misplacing a couple of kick-outs that led directly to scores or Mark Bradley going for goal twice when they weren't on. Was he to blame for Fintan Kelly kicking 3 points from 3 possessions because no one checked his runs at the start of the game? The players take the field and play to a devised game plan but when the game takes a life of it's own and they make mistakes or take wrong options it is not Mickey Harte's fault or Horse or Stevie O'Neill.

A bit of perspective is needed here. We simply don't have the resources to go all out attack and we don't have the defenders capable of going man to man..so we have to balance all that. I don't think anyone doubts a need to play with a more attacking approach and you can see already that they seem to be pressing further up the pitch with less men rushing back to stand on the D. You can also see more kick passing into the full forward line, this is a work in progress because we simply have ignored this skill for too many years. Last year we won league games and Mickey Harte ridiculed 'it was only the league'. This year we are losing these games and he is still wrong.

100%

Buck stops with Management. If it doesnt work in any other field of profession in the world, the Manager has to take the flack and the blame. He is responsible for "his" team, performances and results

[Tyrone Dreamer]

This is thread is getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage. Any chance of just debating the football?

You can blame Mickey Harte all you want for a one point loss to Monaghan....but is it his fault that Richard Donnelly kicked ball after ball into a sweepers hands all night? Is he to blame for Niall Morgan misplacing a couple of kick-outs that led directly to scores or Mark Bradley going for goal twice when they weren't on. Was he to blame for Fintan Kelly kicking 3 points from 3 possessions because no one checked his runs at the start of the game? The players take the field and play to a devised game plan but when the game takes a life of it's own and they make mistakes or take wrong options it is not Mickey Harte's fault or Horse or Stevie O'Neill.

A bit of perspective is needed here. We simply don't have the resources to go all out attack and we don't have the defenders capable of going man to man..so we have to balance all that. I don't think anyone doubts a need to play with a more attacking approach and you can see already that they seem to be pressing further up the pitch with less men rushing back to stand on the D. You can also see more kick passing into the full forward line, this is a work in progress because we simply have ignored this skill for too many years. Last year we won league games and Mickey Harte ridiculed 'it was only the league'. This year we are losing these games and he is still wrong.

100%

Buck stops with Management. If it doesnt work in any other field of profession in the world, the Manager has to take the flack and the blame. He is responsible for "his" team, performances and results

That means he's responsible for back to back ulster titles, something we've done very rarely over the last 100 years.

[longballin]

This is thread is getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage. Any chance of just debating the football?

You can blame Mickey Harte all you want for a one point loss to Monaghan....but is it his fault that Richard Donnelly kicked ball after ball into a sweepers hands all night? Is he to blame for Niall Morgan misplacing a couple of kick-outs that led directly to scores or Mark Bradley going for goal twice when they weren't on. Was he to blame for Fintan Kelly kicking 3 points from 3 possessions because no one checked his runs at the start of the game? The players take the field and play to a devised game plan but when the game takes a life of it's own and they make mistakes or take wrong options it is not Mickey Harte's fault or Horse or Stevie O'Neill.

A bit of perspective is needed here. We simply don't have the resources to go all out attack and we don't have the defenders capable of going man to man..so we have to balance all that. I don't think anyone doubts a need to play with a more attacking approach and you can see already that they seem to be pressing further up the pitch with less men rushing back to stand on the D. You can also see more kick passing into the full forward line, this is a work in progress because we simply have ignored this skill for too many years. Last year we won league games and Mickey Harte ridiculed 'it was only the league'. This year we are losing these games and he is still wrong.

100%

Buck stops with Management. If it doesnt work in any other field of profession in the world, the Manager has to take the flack and the blame. He is responsible for "his" team, performances and results

That means he's responsible for back to back ulster titles, something we've done very rarely over the last 100 years.

and for that debacle against Dublin in August last year... all duck or no dinnner

[Over the Bar]

This is thread is getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage. Any chance of just debating the football?

You can blame Mickey Harte all you want for a one point loss to Monaghan....but is it his fault that Richard Donnelly kicked ball after ball into a sweepers hands all night? Is he to blame for Niall Morgan misplacing a couple of kick-outs that led directly to scores or Mark Bradley going for goal twice when they weren't on. Was he to blame for Fintan Kelly kicking 3 points from 3 possessions because no one checked his runs at the start of the game? The players take the field and play to a devised game plan but when the game takes a life of it's own and they make mistakes or take wrong options it is not Mickey Harte's fault or Horse or Stevie O'Neill.

A bit of perspective is needed here. We simply don't have the resources to go all out attack and we don't have the defenders capable of going man to man..so we have to balance all that. I don't think anyone doubts a need to play with a more attacking approach and you can see already that they seem to be pressing further up the pitch with less men rushing back to stand on the D. You can also see more kick passing into the full forward line, this is a work in progress because we simply have ignored this skill for too many years. Last year we won league games and Mickey Harte ridiculed 'it was only the league'. This year we are losing these games and he is still wrong.

100%

Buck stops with Management. If it doesnt work in any other field of profession in the world, the Manager has to take the flack and the blame. He is responsible for "his" team, performances and results

That means he's responsible for back to back ulster titles, something we've done very rarely over the last 100 years.

and for that debacle against Dublin in August last year... all duck or no dinnner

So are you suggesting without an AI win everything else is meaningless? If you are then you're an idiot.    Thankfully most of us are old enough to remember when Tyrone had no AI titles and an Ulster was fondly appreciated by every Tyrone fan. 

[longballin]

This is thread is getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage. Any chance of just debating the football?

You can blame Mickey Harte all you want for a one point loss to Monaghan....but is it his fault that Richard Donnelly kicked ball after ball into a sweepers hands all night? Is he to blame for Niall Morgan misplacing a couple of kick-outs that led directly to scores or Mark Bradley going for goal twice when they weren't on. Was he to blame for Fintan Kelly kicking 3 points from 3 possessions because no one checked his runs at the start of the game? The players take the field and play to a devised game plan but when the game takes a life of it's own and they make

mistakes or take wrong options it is not Mickey Harte's fault or Horse or Stevie O'Neill.

A bit of perspective is needed here. We simply don't have the resources to go all out attack and we don't have the defenders capable of going man to man..so we have to balance all that. I don't think anyone doubts a need to play with a more attacking approach and you can see already that they seem to be pressing further up the pitch with less men rushing back to stand on the D. You can also see more kick passing into the full forward line, this is a work in progress because we simply have ignored this skill for too many years. Last year we won league games and Mickey Harte ridiculed 'it was only the league'. This year we are losing these games and he is still wrong.

100%

Buck stops with Management. If it doesnt work in any other field of profession in the world, the Manager has to take the flack and the blame. He is responsible for "his" team, performances and results

That means he's responsible for back to back ulster titles, something we've done very rarely over the last 100 years.

and for that debacle against Dublin in August last year... all duck or no dinnner

So are you suggesting without an AI win everything else is meaningless? If you are then you're an idiot.    Thankfully most of us are old enough to remember when Tyrone had no AI titles and an Ulster was fondly appreciated by every Tyrone fan.

Spare me the bullshit. I remember 2009 and 2010 when Tyrone won Ulster lifted the cup and went to the dressingroom without even a lap of honour when fans werent allowed on the field it meant so little. And it was all about winning Sam. Phillip Jordan said winning Ulster meant little then. Its good to win Ulster but dont pretend its like before the backdoor system when you were Ulsters representative in the All Ireland semi final.

[Therealdonald]

This is thread is getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage. Any chance of just debating the football?

You can blame Mickey Harte all you want for a one point loss to Monaghan....but is it his fault that Richard Donnelly kicked ball after ball into a sweepers hands all night? Is he to blame for Niall Morgan misplacing a couple of kick-outs that led directly to scores or Mark Bradley going for goal twice when they weren't on. Was he to blame for Fintan Kelly kicking 3 points from 3 possessions because no one checked his runs at the start of the game? The players take the field and play to a devised game plan but when the game takes a life of it's own and they make mistakes or take wrong options it is not Mickey Harte's fault or Horse or Stevie O'Neill.

A bit of perspective is needed here. We simply don't have the resources to go all out attack and we don't have the defenders capable of going man to man..so we have to balance all that. I don't think anyone doubts a need to play with a more attacking approach and you can see already that they seem to be pressing further up the pitch with less men rushing back to stand on the D. You can also see more kick passing into the full forward line, this is a work in progress because we simply have ignored this skill for too many years. Last year we won league games and Mickey Harte ridiculed 'it was only the league'. This year we are losing these games and he is still wrong.

100%

Buck stops with Management. If it doesnt work in any other field of profession in the world, the Manager has to take the flack and the blame. He is responsible for "his" team, performances and results

That means he's responsible for back to back ulster titles, something we've done very rarely over the last 100 years.

and for that debacle against Dublin in August last year... all duck or no dinnner

So are you suggesting without an AI win everything else is meaningless? If you are then you're an idiot.    Thankfully most of us are old enough to remember when Tyrone had no AI titles and an Ulster was fondly appreciated by every Tyrone fan.

I think what he is suggesting has some merit, Monaghan have won Ulster twice in the last 5 years, yet ultimately their seasons have been regarded as a failure because they didn't make it past the AIQF. While you may be old enough to remember when Tyrone had no AI titles, ultimately through the introduction of the backdoor (which we benefited from twice very generously) Ulster titles do not mean as much as they ought to.

[southtyronegael]

from this year onward the provincial win will merely be the quickest way into the super 8s. the trophy will mean very little unless its a county that hasnt won it in 20+ years. the super 8s will be the only show in town from now on.

[longballin]

Super 3 and middling 5 

[Dire Ear]

Super 3 and middling 5 

Super 1, middlin 2, crap 5 ??

[longballin]

Super 3 and middling 5 

Super 1, middlin 2, crap 5 ??

Mayo give Dublin a great game in the championship and Kerry up there too. Rest a bit behind though...