Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

seafoid

Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2018, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 18, 2018, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2018, 12:00:52 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on July 18, 2018, 11:34:11 AM
I think voters can now petition for a by-election, which would be a waste of time, I spose.

Not been a good few weeks for the Jnr.

Means the government are down a vote for the next month though which is a plus!!

On the abstention thing well Sinn Fein have made that many concessions in the last 20 years surely this should be the next. With the current Government and Brexit they have a chance to make a real difference for North and South with regard to Brexit and they're not.

Blah blah they were voted in on abstention but that doesn't really cut the mustard anymore. Things are getting heated and they need to be seen to be doing something. I actually think it would win them more votes to say right we're going into Westminster to make a difference rather than the shite going on with the assembly.

I know one thing I'll not be voting for them in a GE again!

Problem being I guess in the short term they might have an impact and a say, on a very important issue for this part of the world. But what would rule out a GE being called soon after they went in and it wiped out any influence that they would have hoped to have. Then they are still on the outside of the decision making process that they would have sold their souls to be involved in.

"Sold their souls" is a bit dramatic!!

As I've said they've made a number of concessions over the years and this is another . . .

Who would have believed McGuinness shaking the Queen's hand or supporting the PSNI, sharing power with the DUP.

At every turn these things were seen as selling their souls but they haven't dropped support. Taking their seat at Westminster to try and preserve jobs for the North and trade for the Southcan easily be spun and should be!!
Surely they sold their souls in the 70s already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggxTtnKTMo

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

screenexile

Looks like Boris has staked his claim for PM!!!

red hander

Quote from: Hound on July 18, 2018, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2018, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 18, 2018, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 18, 2018, 12:00:52 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on July 18, 2018, 11:34:11 AM
I think voters can now petition for a by-election, which would be a waste of time, I spose.

Not been a good few weeks for the Jnr.

Means the government are down a vote for the next month though which is a plus!!

On the abstention thing well Sinn Fein have made that many concessions in the last 20 years surely this should be the next. With the current Government and Brexit they have a chance to make a real difference for North and South with regard to Brexit and they're not.

Blah blah they were voted in on abstention but that doesn't really cut the mustard anymore. Things are getting heated and they need to be seen to be doing something. I actually think it would win them more votes to say right we're going into Westminster to make a difference rather than the shite going on with the assembly.

I know one thing I'll not be voting for them in a GE again!

Problem being I guess in the short term they might have an impact and a say, on a very important issue for this part of the world. But what would rule out a GE being called soon after they went in and it wiped out any influence that they would have hoped to have. Then they are still on the outside of the decision making process that they would have sold their souls to be involved in.

"Sold their souls" is a bit dramatic!!

As I've said they've made a number of concessions over the years and this is another . . .

Who would have believed McGuinness shaking the Queen's hand or supporting the PSNI, sharing power with the DUP.

At every turn these things were seen as selling their souls but they haven't dropped support. Taking their seat at Westminster to try and preserve jobs for the North and trade for the Southcan easily be spun and should be!!
But it's not a concession to start taking their seats!

If it was a concession it would have been part of the GFA, when the abstention should have ended. SF should ended it then. But no other politician in north, south or in Britain wants them to go, so not a hope in hell they'd ask for that "concession" by SF!

They only people losing out by them not taking their seats are the people they are supposed to represent.

The people they represent knew what they were voting for, abstentionism. Anybody who believes 7 SF votes would change things at Westminster is deluded. How many Tory pro-Remain rebels would want to be seen voting with the Shinners? Imagine the headlines in the Mail and Express. What difference did Durkan, Ritchie and McDonnell ever make? What benefits did they ever bring nationalists in the north?

Wildweasel74

What benefits has there been with non-attendance! Thats right none; except lifting money for doing nothing! This is the first time  that crucial votes are literally depending on single figure votes! Sinn Fein have had no input in trying to prevent brexit except sound bites! Sure it wasnt ok to join the police to Sinn Fein said so@

Windmill abu

The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.
Never underestimate the power of complaining

trileacman

Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Therealdonald

Quote from: trileacman on July 18, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.

I don't understand this and why people don't get it. SF voters vote for them not to take their seats. It's not a grey area, when you vote SF, you're voting to not have a vote in Westminster. Its simple. I wouldn't say never, but abstentionism is along way away yet.

trileacman

Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 07:51:27 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 18, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.

I don't understand this and why people don't get it. SF voters vote for them not to take their seats. It's not a grey area, when you vote SF, you're voting to not have a vote in Westminster. Its simple. I wouldn't say never, but abstentionism is along way away yet.

If SF took their seats would you stop voting for them?
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

thewobbler

Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 07:51:27 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 18, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.

I don't understand this and why people don't get it. SF voters vote for them not to take their seats. It's not a grey area, when you vote SF, you're voting to not have a vote in Westminster. Its simple. I wouldn't say never, but abstentionism is along way away yet.


So are you telling me that over the course of the last 30 years, when the troubles were ended, UK~Ireland relationships improved, and a wee six power sharing government was formed, that Sinn Fein's rise in the ballot box for Westminster has been owed (even slightly) to their absenteeism policy?

You are of course entitled to believe this. But it doesn't add up at all.

Therealdonald

Quote from: thewobbler on July 18, 2018, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 07:51:27 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 18, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.

I don't understand this and why people don't get it. SF voters vote for them not to take their seats. It's not a grey area, when you vote SF, you're voting to not have a vote in Westminster. Its simple. I wouldn't say never, but abstentionism is along way away yet.


So are you telling me that over the course of the last 30 years, when the troubles were ended, UK~Ireland relationships improved, and a wee six power sharing government was formed, that Sinn Fein's rise in the ballot box for Westminster has been owed (even slightly) to their absenteeism policy?

You are of course entitled to believe this. But it doesn't add up at all.

I personally don't feel like I would stop voting SF just because they took their seats. However I do think it'd be an issue for others. Being honest SF voting in Westminster won't make much of a difference. If they did drop abstentionism I'd imagine there'd be an even bigger clamour for unified unionist candidates so why take the risk, just to vote in a meaningless deal-vote that will be vetoed by the EU anyway.

seafoid

Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.
They could extract valuable concessions. I am beginning to think the Shinners don't want a United Ireland
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

imtommygunn

Or they are happy to see brexit wreck northern ireland so more people all over ireland want it to happen.

Tony Baloney

Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 18, 2018, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 07:51:27 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 18, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.

I don't understand this and why people don't get it. SF voters vote for them not to take their seats. It's not a grey area, when you vote SF, you're voting to not have a vote in Westminster. Its simple. I wouldn't say never, but abstentionism is along way away yet.


So are you telling me that over the course of the last 30 years, when the troubles were ended, UK~Ireland relationships improved, and a wee six power sharing government was formed, that Sinn Fein's rise in the ballot box for Westminster has been owed (even slightly) to their absenteeism policy?

You are of course entitled to believe this. But it doesn't add up at all.

I personally don't feel like I would stop voting SF just because they took their seats. However I do think it'd be an issue for others. Being honest SF voting in Westminster won't make much of a difference. If they did drop abstentionism I'd imagine there'd be an even bigger clamour for unified unionist candidates so why take the risk, just to vote in a meaningless deal-vote that will be vetoed by the EU anyway.
By not taking their seats and voting on key issues they give the Tories and the DUP a free pass. The end.

tiempo

Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 18, 2018, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 18, 2018, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on July 18, 2018, 07:51:27 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 18, 2018, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on July 18, 2018, 07:32:25 PM
The votes taking place are only close because the Conservatives are split over the issues. If SF took their seats and voted they would be supporting one or other half of the tory party. The party under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher who most republicans hold responsible for the deaths of the hunger strikers. SF supporters would never forgive them for supporting either half of the tories.

They take seats in Stormont and form governments with unionists like Paisley, Dodds and Robinson who were responsible for the perpetuation of loyalist violence in the North so preventing one of the major f**k ups in UK history by voting with the Tories shouldn't be the sky caving in their heads.

They've flipped on several issues, not recognising Stormont etc etc. All the old excuses for not attending, (they wouldn't make a difference, etc) have been shown to be hollow so they really have no honest exemptions from this anymore.

I don't understand this and why people don't get it. SF voters vote for them not to take their seats. It's not a grey area, when you vote SF, you're voting to not have a vote in Westminster. Its simple. I wouldn't say never, but abstentionism is along way away yet.


So are you telling me that over the course of the last 30 years, when the troubles were ended, UK~Ireland relationships improved, and a wee six power sharing government was formed, that Sinn Fein's rise in the ballot box for Westminster has been owed (even slightly) to their absenteeism policy?

You are of course entitled to believe this. But it doesn't add up at all.

I personally don't feel like I would stop voting SF just because they took their seats. However I do think it'd be an issue for others. Being honest SF voting in Westminster won't make much of a difference. If they did drop abstentionism I'd imagine there'd be an even bigger clamour for unified unionist candidates so why take the risk, just to vote in a meaningless deal-vote that will be vetoed by the EU anyway.
By not taking their seats and voting on key issues they give the Tories and the DUP a free pass. The end.

Hows that working out for the SNP? Sin é.

Rossfan

Westminster is shitting on Scotland daily as the gallant 35 try to take on 530 or so English MPs plus 24 non SNP Scottish MPs who vote as instructed by their parties.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM