Underage Grades

[Dinny Breen]

What a lot of you seem to fail to realise is that young players all develop physically, mentally and emotionally at different rates.

Just because a boy or girl doesn't feel that competitive or winning edge at 13 doesn't mean they won't feel it later at 17/18 or 20/21. You complain that you don't have the numbers etc etc but if you don't change your coaching values, your club values and how as a collective you do things, how do expect things to change?

The GAA is suppose to be about community and not only as a pathway to adult sport. Wobbler says he knows after a few Adult B games whether a 17 year old will be playing at 21, a 17 year old who is studying for exams, dealing with hormones, still not physically, emotionally or mentally mature. Have you ever asked yourself why? You need a much broader mind than that.

There has been some mad dog sh*t talked in this thread, [some of it by you Dinny which is a surprise as you are usually fairly sensible], but that by Wobbler takes first prize by a country mile.

No of us are sensible, we wouldn't be here if we were....

[Taylor]

I'm an underage coach in Armagh and it definitely impacts kids when the half year ends and they are no longer in the same age group as friends that they have played with since they were Under 6.
I do not see any advantage to going U14, U16, U18 over the half years, whereas there is a clear disadvantage in some kids being disillusioned as they no longer get to play with their mates.  Why risk that?

Completely agree.
There is no sense in risking alienating any kids at all.

While it is nice for kids to win the most important thing is keeping them involved with the club and the community

[thewobbler]

What a lot of you seem to fail to realise is that young players all develop physically, mentally and emotionally at different rates.

Just because a boy or girl doesn't feel that competitive or winning edge at 13 doesn't mean they won't feel it later at 17/18 or 20/21. You complain that you don't have the numbers etc etc but if you don't change your coaching values, your club values and how as a collective you do things, how do expect things to change?

The GAA is suppose to be about community and not only as a pathway to adult sport. Wobbler says he knows after a few Adult B games whether a 17 year old will be playing at 21, a 17 year old who is studying for exams, dealing with hormones, still not physically, emotionally or mentally mature. Have you ever asked yourself why? You need a much broader mind than that.

Dinny what you're suggesting here is that I'm fuelling this dropout, and my "narrow mind" is maybe even actively pursuing it.

If so, it's absolute nonsense. These are not actions. They are observations gained from spending 25 years involved at the entry point to adult football.

Someone else suggests that drink and women are the reason for dropouts. He's wrong. It's not drink and women that's the issue. Nor is it age grades. Some people just don't like competitive sport enough to work hard at it. As mentioned before, this does not make them weak, strange, disappointing, cowardly, or unfulfilled. It's perfectly norma behaviour and is reflected among teenagers in every competitive sport across the world. It's not a GAA issue. It's just people being people.

I played with dozens of senior players who partied hard. But they'd still find a way to make training, and on match days left no quarter given. Because competitive sport was a priority in their life.

When people can accept this simple reality, they can focus on ensuring that players who have that drive are given every opportunity to progress through the ranks, regardless of ability. Clubs will prosper.

[BenDover]

I like the even age groups up to June/July, give those players a competition then switch to odd ages for rest of year. It also brings Feile to a nice conclusion. That way each age get a chance playing in their 'stronger' year and the 18 year olds can play adult if they want.

Young players don't get enough games. That's one of the biggest issues.

Coaching under 10s last year and between go games fixtures midweek and a plethora of blitz's most weekends it actually was difficult to fit in training sessions to help develop skills.

I realise this is different to other age categories.

Thank god we are not the only coaches that felt this. Unreal amount of running around after our clubs U10s this year. Instead of weekly go games next year it may be better to host blitzes every 4 weeks and get a batch of clubs together and being more selective on which tournaments we attend.

[johnnycool]

Well said. In the 6 counties I feel half year makes sense so i would go 13.5, 14.5 etc. to let fellas play with their pals. Not sure what way school works in 26.

the half year grades only make sense until the end of primary school in the north anyway.

Once you go to secondary school it gets all mixed up - you could be the only one in your class from your club if you're from a rural area.

But you could be playing against people from your year in school?

Surely it makes sense for kids to be playing with/against kids from their school year
[/quote]

It depends on how they've been conditioned up to that point.

I'm all on for academic years up to P7 as then yes you'll by and large have kids in the same school friendship groups even if you've more than one primary school feeding into the club.

In most rural clubs playing up years is a given but they get used to playing, training and mixing with kids not in their class but they're neighbours all the same to the change to calendar years isn't really an issue.

These changes won't have an impact one way or another in that regard, but now we've a group of U17's out of U16 who the only game time they'll get is at U17 and if you're the weaker code in a county with limited teams there might not be a whole pile of fixtures to sustain development or you're playing the same team 3 or 4 times in the year.
This in fairness has always been the case but at least they'd be more challenged playing at U18 than U17 as 17 year olds.


I wouldn't just be so hasty at writing any kid or young adult off. I've seen too many young superstars fall by the wayside to be replaced with lads who'd have shown very little in the juvenile ranks but flourished in adult games.

But the point Wobbler does make about being prepared to make the sacrifices, put the effort in to make a senior grade or even reserves is pretty evident to me as well.
There's no fix for it in some kids as they just don't see the reward or maybe a lack of encouragement/role models at home or a mixture of both.
If you grow up in a house where going out training or games two, three times a week either by a parent, older siblings, or even a group of close friends that you're part of means that its part and parcel of your life and no big deal.
If you're not exposed to that even through the juvenile ranks then it's easier to drop away when things do get more demanding on you.

[LeoMc]

Well said. In the 6 counties I feel half year makes sense so i would go 13.5, 14.5 etc. to let fellas play with their pals. Not sure what way school works in 26.

the half year grades only make sense until the end of primary school in the north anyway.

Once you go to secondary school it gets all mixed up - you could be the only one in your class from your club if you're from a rural area.

But you could be playing against people from your year in school?

Surely it makes sense for kids to be playing with/against kids from their school year
[/quote] [/quote]
If you are always playing for / against kids in your year those with July and August birthdays always have an advantage over those born in May and June in both schools and club football.
Having schools football and club football with different cut off points gives everyone a chance somewhere.

[LooseCannon]

Heard from a man involved at underage with a Roscommon club that they're changing to u 13, 15, 17 and 20.

[Dinny Breen]

What a lot of you seem to fail to realise is that young players all develop physically, mentally and emotionally at different rates.

Just because a boy or girl doesn't feel that competitive or winning edge at 13 doesn't mean they won't feel it later at 17/18 or 20/21. You complain that you don't have the numbers etc etc but if you don't change your coaching values, your club values and how as a collective you do things, how do expect things to change?

The GAA is suppose to be about community and not only as a pathway to adult sport. Wobbler says he knows after a few Adult B games whether a 17 year old will be playing at 21, a 17 year old who is studying for exams, dealing with hormones, still not physically, emotionally or mentally mature. Have you ever asked yourself why? You need a much broader mind than that.

Dinny what you're suggesting here is that I'm fuelling this dropout, and my "narrow mind" is maybe even actively pursuing it.

If so, it's absolute nonsense. These are not actions. They are observations gained from spending 25 years involved at the entry point to adult football.

Someone else suggests that drink and women are the reason for dropouts. He's wrong. It's not drink and women that's the issue. Nor is it age grades. Some people just don't like competitive sport enough to work hard at it. As mentioned before, this does not make them weak, strange, disappointing, cowardly, or unfulfilled. It's perfectly norma behaviour and is reflected among teenagers in every competitive sport across the world. It's not a GAA issue. It's just people being people.

I played with dozens of senior players who partied hard. But they'd still find a way to make training, and on match days left no quarter given. Because competitive sport was a priority in their life.

When people can accept this simple reality, they can focus on ensuring that players who have that drive are given every opportunity to progress through the ranks, regardless of ability. Clubs will prosper.

This article might give you something to think about, you can change your thinking after 25 years , I wonder where Nemo would be now if they only picked the competitive boys at 13,14,15.....

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/02/22/news/we-don-t-care-if-we-lose-ye-will-all-get-a-game-joe-kavanagh-on-nemo-s-famous-underage-policy-1261352/

[Rossfan]

Heard from a man involved at underage with a Roscommon club that they're changing to u 13, 15, 17 and 20.

We had a U20 Championship last year and this year.
Didnr hear anything official about switching to 13/15 byt I suspect we have to do what HQ wishes these days.

[thewobbler]

Dinny you've replied to my comments on why 17 year olds drop out of sport, by citing an article about an under-14 policy in a club falling down with players.

This is not the same thing.

There may be come correlation here, but unless Nemo are also keeping their stronger juvenile players on board as well, and playing junior football while their old teammates  "jump ahead" of them, then it's the same situation anyhow.

[Dinny Breen]

Dinny you've replied to my comments on why 17 year olds drop out of sport, by citing an article about an under-14 policy in a club falling down with players.

This is not the same thing.

There may be come correlation here, but unless Nemo are also keeping their stronger juvenile players on board as well, and playing junior football while their old teammates  "jump ahead" of them, then it's the same situation anyhow.

You were talking about teenagers when I quoted you not specifically 17 years old. I think your attitude is wrong and symptomatic of why clubs are struggling with numbers. Unless a kid is competitive at x, y, z age he won't play adult sport to me is simply mind boggling. Since when did playing sport solely become about winning? No wonder clubs are dying on their feet.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/493869/open-letter-a-young-player-s-view.html

[thewobbler]

Dinny you've replied to my comments on why 17 year olds drop out of sport, by citing an article about an under-14 policy in a club falling down with players.

This is not the same thing.

There may be come correlation here, but unless Nemo are also keeping their stronger juvenile players on board as well, and playing junior football while their old teammates  "jump ahead" of them, then it's the same situation anyhow.

You were talking about teenagers when I quoted you not specifically 17 years old. I think your attitude is wrong and symptomatic of why clubs are struggling with numbers. Unless a kid is competitive at x, y, z age he won't play adult sport to me is simply mind boggling. Since when did playing sport solely become about winning? No wonder clubs are dying on their feet.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/493869/open-letter-a-young-player-s-view.html

Dinny this thread is about the change age grades. Some people have managed to convince themselves that it will increase dropout rates. My personal opinion is that it won't affect them. The evidence I've seen before my eyes is that the majority of 17 year olds require little coercion in either direction - those that get their kicks from competitive sport will stick at it, those that do not, will not.

Your idealistic attitude to sport is in many ways admirable, but your last few posts are going off on their own tangent.

But while we are here, for the life of me I don't fathom how blunting the competitive edge in youngsters will make them suited to adult sport.

A huge club like Nemo is always going to have 15+ oversized, overgrown players at every grade capable of dominating matches by themselves. They have to take care that their smaller and lighter players aren't sacrificed, as eventually those oversized youngsters will usually become normal sized young adults. But this isn't relevant for 99% of clubs in Ireland. Having 20 willing under-13 footballers, without having to dig into the 12s and 11s,  is once in a generation stuff for a large number of clubs. If you have only 10 of these, do you really want them to treat Gaelic Games as a social? I can't see what can be gained from this approach.

[manfromdelmonte]

Dinny you've replied to my comments on why 17 year olds drop out of sport, by citing an article about an under-14 policy in a club falling down with players.

This is not the same thing.

There may be come correlation here, but unless Nemo are also keeping their stronger juvenile players on board as well, and playing junior football while their old teammates  "jump ahead" of them, then it's the same situation anyhow.

You were talking about teenagers when I quoted you not specifically 17 years old. I think your attitude is wrong and symptomatic of why clubs are struggling with numbers. Unless a kid is competitive at x, y, z age he won't play adult sport to me is simply mind boggling. Since when did playing sport solely become about winning? No wonder clubs are dying on their feet.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/493869/open-letter-a-young-player-s-view.html

Very hard to keep 16/17 year olds involved if there isn't some sort of ambition of winning games and competitions
Might as well be at home on the couch otherwise

[SpeculativeEffort]

Dinny you've replied to my comments on why 17 year olds drop out of sport, by citing an article about an under-14 policy in a club falling down with players.

This is not the same thing.

There may be come correlation here, but unless Nemo are also keeping their stronger juvenile players on board as well, and playing junior football while their old teammates  "jump ahead" of them, then it's the same situation anyhow.

You were talking about teenagers when I quoted you not specifically 17 years old. I think your attitude is wrong and symptomatic of why clubs are struggling with numbers. Unless a kid is competitive at x, y, z age he won't play adult sport to me is simply mind boggling. Since when did playing sport solely become about winning? No wonder clubs are dying on their feet.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/493869/open-letter-a-young-player-s-view.html

Very hard to keep 16/17 year olds involved if there isn't some sort of ambition of winning games and competitions
Might as well be at home on the couch otherwise

Theres a difference between being competitive and winning. If skills have been developed properly from an early age then lads should be equipped to compete at u13/15/17/19. Doesnt mean they need to be winning everything but winning has to be possible. If they dont develop these skills they will take hammerings in these grades and soon fade away. We need to equip these lads to be able to compete.

[SkillfulBill]

Dinny you've replied to my comments on why 17 year olds drop out of sport, by citing an article about an under-14 policy in a club falling down with players.

This is not the same thing.

There may be come correlation here, but unless Nemo are also keeping their stronger juvenile players on board as well, and playing junior football while their old teammates  "jump ahead" of them, then it's the same situation anyhow.

You were talking about teenagers when I quoted you not specifically 17 years old. I think your attitude is wrong and symptomatic of why clubs are struggling with numbers. Unless a kid is competitive at x, y, z age he won't play adult sport to me is simply mind boggling. Since when did playing sport solely become about winning? No wonder clubs are dying on their feet.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/493869/open-letter-a-young-player-s-view.html

Very hard to keep 16/17 year olds involved if there isn't some sort of ambition of winning games and competitions
Might as well be at home on the couch otherwise

Theres a difference between being competitive and winning. If skills have been developed properly from an early age then lads should be equipped to compete at u13/15/17/19. Doesnt mean they need to be winning everything but winning has to be possible. If they dont develop these skills they will take hammerings in these grades and soon fade away. We need to equip these lads to be able to compete.

Sorry Dinny your Non compete methods aren't getting much support on here. The whole grading ethos is there to ensure teams can be competitive at their level. The Gaa is built on competition and winning. When you remove the possibility of winning lads lose interest.