Tuam Babies

[seafoid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme

In 1948 Dr.Noël Browne, a new T.D. for Clann na Poblachta, and a socialist, became Minister for Health in a coalition government. Browne was an admirer of Fianna Fáil's 1947 Health Act[4] and intended to implement its provisions as part of a plan to reduce the alarmingly high rate of child mortality (especially from tuberculosis) in Ireland,[5][6][7] modernise the Irish healthcare system and make it free and without means-testing for mothers and their children up to the age of 16.[4] He was impressed with the National Health Service in the United Kingdom[8] and successful medical procedural reforms in Denmark which reduced child mortality.[9] With vigour he tackled the domestic health issues and was acclaimed for the results.[10]
Then in July 1950, Browne's department formally submitted the scheme to the Irish Medical Association.[11] The Association had originally opposed the 1947 bill, mentioning the "socialisation of medicine."[4][10] They were supported in the coalition cabinet by the experienced Fine Gael T.D. Dr.Thomas F. O'Higgins, the Minister for Defence and a former member of the executive of the Irish Medical Association. More important was the opposition of the Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid, who summoned Browne to his palace[8] and read out a letter to be sent to the Taoiseach, John A. Costello, penned by Dr.James Staunton, Bishop of Ferns, which contained, "...they [the Archbishops and bishops] feel bound by their office to consider whether the proposals are in accordance with Catholic moral teaching," and, "Doctors trained in institutions in which we have no confidence may be appointed as medical officers ... and may give gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles.[12][13] The letter stated that health provision and physical education for children were solely the "right" of parents and not the State's concern. Archbishop McQuaid was the chairman of some boards of directors of Dublin hospitals. He exercised considerable influence concerning medical appointments and control over the religious orders whose members made up much of the administrative and management staff in hospitals, sanatoria etc.[14][15] Concerning the term "moral teaching" in the letter to the Taoiseach, Browne received supportive advice - in secret - from Francis Cremin, a Maynooth professor of theology and canon law.[8] Some bishops, McQuaid and others feared the scheme could pave the way for abortion and birth control. Though some Catholic Church leaders may have been privately sympathetic to Browne and wished to reach an accommodation, what was viewed as Browne's tactless handling of the Catholic Church forced the moderates into silence, allowing the anti-Mother and Child Scheme members of the hierarchy under McQuaid to set the agenda.[16]

What the hell is "gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles"??

Ireland was a sick, disgusting place back then.

Symphisiotomy would have been part of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphysiotomy
It is estimated that 1,500 women unknowingly and without consent underwent symphysiotomies during childbirth in the Republic of Ireland between 1944—1984.[12] A 2012 study found that many of the women say the Catholic church "encouraged, if not insisted upon, symphysiotomies" [13] It has been suggested that during that period, non-Catholic doctors recommended sterilisation of women after three Caesarean section operations; while Catholic doctors usually recommended "compassionate hysterectomies" as a solution to the prohibition on sterilisations

[J70]

That is f**king sick.

[seafoid]

Inge Morath was an Austrian photographer who went to Puck Fair in Killorglin in 1954. It was a different world.
I imagine a good few of the dead babies in Tuam would have been itinerants.

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&ALID=2K7O3R1PHCKI

The church had an iron grip on sexual matters and anyone who fell foul was treated brutally.

[Main Street]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme

In 1948 Dr.Noël Browne, a new T.D. for Clann na Poblachta, and a socialist, became Minister for Health in a coalition government. Browne was an admirer of Fianna Fáil's 1947 Health Act[4] and intended to implement its provisions as part of a plan to reduce the alarmingly high rate of child mortality (especially from tuberculosis) in Ireland,[5][6][7] modernise the Irish healthcare system and make it free and without means-testing for mothers and their children up to the age of 16.[4] He was impressed with the National Health Service in the United Kingdom[8] and successful medical procedural reforms in Denmark which reduced child mortality.[9] With vigour he tackled the domestic health issues and was acclaimed for the results.[10]
Then in July 1950, Browne's department formally submitted the scheme to the Irish Medical Association.[11] The Association had originally opposed the 1947 bill, mentioning the "socialisation of medicine."[4][10] They were supported in the coalition cabinet by the experienced Fine Gael T.D. Dr.Thomas F. O'Higgins, the Minister for Defence and a former member of the executive of the Irish Medical Association. More important was the opposition of the Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid, who summoned Browne to his palace[8] and read out a letter to be sent to the Taoiseach, John A. Costello, penned by Dr.James Staunton, Bishop of Ferns, which contained, "...they [the Archbishops and bishops] feel bound by their office to consider whether the proposals are in accordance with Catholic moral teaching," and, "Doctors trained in institutions in which we have no confidence may be appointed as medical officers ... and may give gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles.[12][13] The letter stated that health provision and physical education for children were solely the "right" of parents and not the State's concern. Archbishop McQuaid was the chairman of some boards of directors of Dublin hospitals. He exercised considerable influence concerning medical appointments and control over the religious orders whose members made up much of the administrative and management staff in hospitals, sanatoria etc.[14][15] Concerning the term "moral teaching" in the letter to the Taoiseach, Browne received supportive advice - in secret - from Francis Cremin, a Maynooth professor of theology and canon law.[8] Some bishops, McQuaid and others feared the scheme could pave the way for abortion and birth control. Though some Catholic Church leaders may have been privately sympathetic to Browne and wished to reach an accommodation, what was viewed as Browne's tactless handling of the Catholic Church forced the moderates into silence, allowing the anti-Mother and Child Scheme members of the hierarchy under McQuaid to set the agenda.[16]

What the hell is "gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles"??

Ireland was a sick, disgusting place back then.

Symphisiotomy would have been part of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphysiotomy
It is estimated that 1,500 women unknowingly and without consent underwent symphysiotomies during childbirth in the Republic of Ireland between 1944—1984.[12] A 2012 study found that many of the women say the Catholic church "encouraged, if not insisted upon, symphysiotomies" [13] It has been suggested that during that period, non-Catholic doctors recommended sterilisation of women after three Caesarean section operations; while Catholic doctors usually recommended "compassionate hysterectomies" as a solution to the prohibition on sterilisations

This article 'The murder of infants'? Symphysiotomy in Ireland, 1944–66  offers a comprehensive account
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-murder-of-infants-symphysiotomy-in-ireland-1944-66/

However, I don't get the direct connection between that catholic church approved practice of a highly dangerous medical procedure carried out in hospitals  and the mass grave at the Mother and baby home in Tuam.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/13/mother-behind-galway-childrens-mass-grave-story

[Tubberman]

The religious order states that when they closed they gave all records to Galway County Council. These records will have to be fully examined to see what form of recording deaths of infants was maintained, what medical treatment was provided and who if anyone signed death certificates. Of course it is likely also that there are many people who do not want it known that they were born in a Mother and Baby home or were resident there. The investigation will have to be very aware of this and respect peoples privacy.

I heard on radio yesterday they got a woman who worked (and lived) in the home as a cleaner to sign all the death certs. None of the nuns put their names to them.

[seafoid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Child_Scheme

In 1948 Dr.Noël Browne, a new T.D. for Clann na Poblachta, and a socialist, became Minister for Health in a coalition government. Browne was an admirer of Fianna Fáil's 1947 Health Act[4] and intended to implement its provisions as part of a plan to reduce the alarmingly high rate of child mortality (especially from tuberculosis) in Ireland,[5][6][7] modernise the Irish healthcare system and make it free and without means-testing for mothers and their children up to the age of 16.[4] He was impressed with the National Health Service in the United Kingdom[8] and successful medical procedural reforms in Denmark which reduced child mortality.[9] With vigour he tackled the domestic health issues and was acclaimed for the results.[10]
Then in July 1950, Browne's department formally submitted the scheme to the Irish Medical Association.[11] The Association had originally opposed the 1947 bill, mentioning the "socialisation of medicine."[4][10] They were supported in the coalition cabinet by the experienced Fine Gael T.D. Dr.Thomas F. O'Higgins, the Minister for Defence and a former member of the executive of the Irish Medical Association. More important was the opposition of the Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid, who summoned Browne to his palace[8] and read out a letter to be sent to the Taoiseach, John A. Costello, penned by Dr.James Staunton, Bishop of Ferns, which contained, "...they [the Archbishops and bishops] feel bound by their office to consider whether the proposals are in accordance with Catholic moral teaching," and, "Doctors trained in institutions in which we have no confidence may be appointed as medical officers ... and may give gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles.[12][13] The letter stated that health provision and physical education for children were solely the "right" of parents and not the State's concern. Archbishop McQuaid was the chairman of some boards of directors of Dublin hospitals. He exercised considerable influence concerning medical appointments and control over the religious orders whose members made up much of the administrative and management staff in hospitals, sanatoria etc.[14][15] Concerning the term "moral teaching" in the letter to the Taoiseach, Browne received supportive advice - in secret - from Francis Cremin, a Maynooth professor of theology and canon law.[8] Some bishops, McQuaid and others feared the scheme could pave the way for abortion and birth control. Though some Catholic Church leaders may have been privately sympathetic to Browne and wished to reach an accommodation, what was viewed as Browne's tactless handling of the Catholic Church forced the moderates into silence, allowing the anti-Mother and Child Scheme members of the hierarchy under McQuaid to set the agenda.[16]

What the hell is "gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles"??

Ireland was a sick, disgusting place back then.

Symphisiotomy would have been part of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphysiotomy
It is estimated that 1,500 women unknowingly and without consent underwent symphysiotomies during childbirth in the Republic of Ireland between 1944—1984.[12] A 2012 study found that many of the women say the Catholic church "encouraged, if not insisted upon, symphysiotomies" [13] It has been suggested that during that period, non-Catholic doctors recommended sterilisation of women after three Caesarean section operations; while Catholic doctors usually recommended "compassionate hysterectomies" as a solution to the prohibition on sterilisations

This article 'The murder of infants'? Symphysiotomy in Ireland, 1944–66  offers a comprehensive account
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-murder-of-infants-symphysiotomy-in-ireland-1944-66/

However, I don't get the direct connection between that catholic church approved practice of a highly dangerous medical procedure carried out in hospitals  and the mass grave at the Mother and baby home in Tuam.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/13/mother-behind-galway-childrens-mass-grave-story

very interesting link
The church was opposed to efforts to take care of vulnerable mothers
"Doctors trained in institutions in which we have no confidence may be appointed as medical officers ... and may give gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles"
Abortion and contraception were not permitted but symphisiotomy was
This graveyard was part of the same system

[magpie seanie]

Every time I think of this I feel physically sick. The sickos that are responsible for this should be named and shamed - even if they are no longer alive.

The cruelty with which the Catholic Church dealt with people it perceived to have broken their sex obsessed rules was and still is in places (don't forget up until recently Africans were being taught condoms give you HIV) horrific. Together with their facilitation and protection of paedophiles and their vicious tormenting of their victims it's really past time that something meaningful and honest was done by the Catholic orders to show they're actually sorry for what happened. They talk of a truth commission up north for the troubles - I think more damage has been done by agents of the church on this island. Yet they still preach to people on how to live their lives, they still own vast amounts of land and buildings while telling us to help the less well off. The hypocrisy must end if they're to have any credibility.

Sorry for going off on one....this is how I genuinely feel. Mostly when I think of the Catholic Church I feel sick.

[seafoid]

The nuns didn't operate in a vacuum. They operated with the consent of the wider society

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-that-tuam-mass-grave-may-extend-beneath-local-houses-35500870.html

"They were illegitimate children. They weren't wanted"

[Hardy]

The nuns didn't operate in a vacuum. They operated with the consent of the wider society.

This is true, but the wider society didn't get its ideology from a vacuum either. The primary source of all this evil is the baleful influence on society of the dogma of the Catholic Church that drove this truly evil treatment of human beings. But we should all be ashamed of ourselves that it was not until very recent times that we stood up as a people and began the process of expelling this evil influence from our society. Sadly, though, there are still a few who continue to resist what they call this "agenda".

[seafoid]

The nuns didn't operate in a vacuum. They operated with the consent of the wider society.

This is true, but the wider society didn't get its ideology from a vacuum either. The primary source of all this evil is the baleful influence on society of the dogma of the Catholic Church that drove this truly evil treatment of human beings. But we should all be ashamed of ourselves that it was not until very recent times that we stood up as a people and began the process of expelling this evil influence from our society. Sadly, though, there are still a few who continue to resist what they call this "agenda".

The people that ran Irish society from the 20s to the 60s came from a very restricted pool. Davitt warned about creating a conservative social class of small farmers but he was overruled.  The economic model was based on exporting beef and dairy products.  Hundreds of thousands of people had no choice but to emigrate. Most of the people who might have changed things left.  Christy Ring and Mick Mackey were sporting legends and all there was for them to do workwise was a job as a driver.

That home closed in 1961 which was around the time that FF gave up on the economic model and opened things up.

[seafoid]

It is a massive story

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/04/irish-excavation-confirms-mass-grave-of-babies-toddlers-at-former-home-for-unwed-mothers/

[whitey]

Inge Morath was an Austrian photographer who went to Puck Fair in Killorglin in 1954. It was a different world.
I imagine a good few of the dead babies in Tuam would have been itinerants.

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&ALID=2K7O3R1PHCKI

The church had an iron grip on sexual matters and anyone who fell foul was treated brutally.

I doubt many Travellers in any at all would have been in this home.....to this day Travellers have very traditional views on sex outside marriage and co habitation

[seafoid]

Inge Morath was an Austrian photographer who went to Puck Fair in Killorglin in 1954. It was a different world.
I imagine a good few of the dead babies in Tuam would have been itinerants.

http://pro.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&ALID=2K7O3R1PHCKI

The church had an iron grip on sexual matters and anyone who fell foul was treated brutally.

I doubt many Travellers in any at all would have been in this home.....to this day Travellers have very traditional views on sex outside marriage and co habitation

Catherine Corless is quoted in the WaPo article and she suspects many cases may have involved rape

[Main Street]

The nuns didn't operate in a vacuum. They operated with the consent of the wider society.

This is true, but the wider society didn't get its ideology from a vacuum either. The primary source of all this evil is the baleful influence on society of the dogma of the Catholic Church that drove this truly evil treatment of human beings. But we should all be ashamed of ourselves that it was not until very recent times that we stood up as a people and began the process of expelling this evil influence from our society. Sadly, though, there are still a few who continue to resist what they call this "agenda".

I feel many emotions over this event, but shame is not one of them.
That could just be a religious guilt thing 

The symphysiotomy medical procedures has a direct line to a religious dogma,
to do with the "sin" of sterilisation and contraception.
The catholic church is responsible for destructive dogmas  but there is much more than the effects of religious dogma here, there is a deeper one, the dogma of poor people being stigmatised just for being poor, for just being at the lowest strata of society.

This is an ever present dogma, even exists long after a society has put good distance and loosened the shackles between the state and  church dogma.
Pre 1946, infant mortality figures were very high but always much higher among the poor and even higher still with the infants of the unmarried mother, because the health of those unmarried women was the poorest.
Factually, the main reasons for the very sharp fall in infant mortality during 1940s was due to enforced improvements in sanitation, drinking water, food hygiene and rubbish disposal.
I'd say such mother children homes (Tuam) were underfunded and overcrowded, society's dumping ground for the poorest of the poor. Reports that I read previous, indicated that authorities in various counties absconded responsibility and dumped children into these institutions where they died due to neglect and poverty related diseases common at that time but rampant in such homes.

In the main, the poorest sent their single mother children to these homes or they ended up being sent there, I've read research that stated thousands of unmarried catholic mothers kept their children over the decades since the establishment of the free state, some research even claimed that most unmarried mother kept their children.
Definitely catholic church dogma had an evil influence on women, children and society   but it's far from being a single factor and far from being a main factor  in this Tuam horror.

[seafoid]

There were other mother baby homes in Castlepollard in Westmeath, Cork, Sean Ross in Wexford and 3 in Dublin according to Catherine Corless. There must have been more than that.