Was Cody right to start Shefflin?

Started by The Wedger, September 05, 2010, 08:37:08 PM

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Was Cody right to start Shefflin?

Yes
18 (48.6%)
No
19 (51.4%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Reillers

Quote from: gallsman on September 06, 2010, 12:50:21 AM
I never once said you couldn't question him. I merely pointed out that I personally wouldn't as I fully believe (as you pointed out yourself) that the TEAM is Cody's overriding concern.

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:44:38 AM
I never said Kilkenny weren't outstanding

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:35:27 AM
Tipp were outstanding, whille KK aren't.

I suppose this is my old trick of quoting one of your posts out of context again, is it?
Weren't on the day. FFS. You're as bad as Heffo.

Reillers

Quote from: SLIGONIAN on September 06, 2010, 12:50:29 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 06, 2010, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:12:31 AM
Tennyson got lucky, Shefflin didn't, that's about the sum of it, and he was out for longer than Shefflin as well to be fair.

Exactly. That's how gambles work. If they come off you're a genius. If they don't you're an idiot. The decision is in whether to gamble or not. Cody obviously felt it worthwhile.

What's this bitchy shite about the "all mighty" (sic) Cody? Are you a little bit jealous? Cody has always been humble in victory and gracious in defeat. Heaven forbid anyone ever questions Sean Og or Donal Og Reillers, eh?

SLIGONIAN, I'll take up your offer of disagreeing with you. Cody has never resorted to emotional decisions. Players have always been picked on form. Back in 2003 there was uproar in the Village (his own club) when he dropped both Philly Larkin and Brian McEvoy - he's absolutely ruthless when he needs to be.
I agree to a certain extent, that this is the first and last emotional decision he will ever make imo. The pressure put on Cody by Shefflin to start in the AI final that bring the 5 in a row to me is what happened.

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:33:05 AM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on September 06, 2010, 12:23:39 AM
I agree with Reillers but ffs reillers lads are allowed to disagree with your point aswell. Agree to disagree. For me the fact he lasted 10mins is proof enough rather than dealing with ifs, buts and maybe. I would of went the caution approach and i also feel it was a EMOTIONAL decision rather than medical. Feel free to disagree.

Oh I don't care if they disagree, feel free, it's the ones who have nothing better to do but bring up the strike and have a go for no reason like the clown Magpiesean, when everyone else is saying the same. You think they'd have moved on by now.
If you didnt care you wouldnt be replying to every post that disagrees with you. People are going to be split 50/50 on this and there probably both right.

I am replying to them, that doesn't mean I don't think they can disagree. It's called a debate. FFS.

gallsman

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:51:17 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 06, 2010, 12:50:21 AM
I never once said you couldn't question him. I merely pointed out that I personally wouldn't as I fully believe (as you pointed out yourself) that the TEAM is Cody's overriding concern.

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:44:38 AM
I never said Kilkenny weren't outstanding

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:35:27 AM
Tipp were outstanding, whille KK aren't.

I suppose this is my old trick of quoting one of your posts out of context again, is it?
Weren't on the day. FFS. You're as bad as Heffo.

Ah right, so anything out of context is due to your inability to articulate what you mean?

If you'd said "Kilkenny weren't" that might imply you were referring to today specifically. However, the phrase you used was "Kilkenny aren't" which spins things entirely differently and suggests they are not an outstanding side. Forgive my inability to extract exactly what you mean.

Reillers

Quote from: gallsman on September 06, 2010, 12:57:12 AM
Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:51:17 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 06, 2010, 12:50:21 AM
I never once said you couldn't question him. I merely pointed out that I personally wouldn't as I fully believe (as you pointed out yourself) that the TEAM is Cody's overriding concern.

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:44:38 AM
I never said Kilkenny weren't outstanding

Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:35:27 AM
Tipp were outstanding, whille KK aren't.

I suppose this is my old trick of quoting one of your posts out of context again, is it?
Weren't on the day. FFS. You're as bad as Heffo.

Ah right, so anything out of context is due to your inability to articulate what you mean?

If you'd said "Kilkenny weren't" that might imply you were referring to today specifically. However, the phrase you used was "Kilkenny aren't" which spins things entirely differently and suggests they are not an outstanding side. Forgive my inability to extract exactly what you mean.
Talk about fuckin nitpicking. Get a life. Stop getting so twisted up and upset about one wrong word. I'm sure you've something better to be doing with your time than that..I mean probably anyway.

NAG1

Getting back to the point of the thread.

Lads the injury which Shefflin had as far as I read was a partial tear of his ACL, so the point being it is as easy to repair a full on tear as it is a partial so the point is he might have been told to go for it by the surgeon and if it goes it goes.

It has been done in other sports such a rugby and rugby league before so it wasnt completely 'out there' as a decision.

But for once I think it showed a level of weakness that Kilkenny have never shown before. Anyone else on the team would just been told thanks for everything this year, now heres the date for your op. I think it put them on the back foot pyschologically from day one.

spuds

Interesting discussion, aside from the usual hurling bitches here  :-*, the fact that Henry played at least 2 training games at full training game pace showed that it was a gamble worth considering. When he informed that he felt good to go and that he had also been doing some work back on the Ballyhale pitch along with the intense rehabilitation work things were looking good. Shefflin would have hardly put himself in this position if he didn't feel up to it. I'm sure the Croke park pitch didn't do him any favours either, nor the slippy surface.
This calling Cody stupid and giving out about his single-mindedness is really laughable.
"As I get older I notice the years less and the seasons more."
John Hubbard

seafoid

Being on the photo of the team that lined out for a 5 in a row which looked on at 3.30 - I'm not surprised that Shefflin went for it.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Reillers

Quote from: NAG1 on September 06, 2010, 08:23:51 AM
Getting back to the point of the thread.

Lads the injury which Shefflin had as far as I read was a partial tear of his ACL, so the point being it is as easy to repair a full on tear as it is a partial so the point is he might have been told to go for it by the surgeon and if it goes it goes.

It has been done in other sports such a rugby and rugby league before so it wasnt completely 'out there' as a decision.

But for once I think it showed a level of weakness that Kilkenny have never shown before. Anyone else on the team would just been told thanks for everything this year, now heres the date for your op. I think it put them on the back foot pyschologically from day one.

I agree, it showed Kilkenny's weakness, they have been praised for and been known for no player being above the team, and that anyone was replaceable, but what happened with Shefflin seems to point to the opposite. That Cody would rather Shefflin with an ACL injury start over a fit player, and that the team needed him that badly, I think it can't have put too much confidence into the team if Cody needed him that much, never mind the messing about and the will he play wont he play, can't have been a good atmosphere to be in, and you're right, if it was any other player there wouldn't have been a question of them playing.

The Konica

It was a very foolish decision to start or even play Shefflin.
There is NO way the man could have played in that or any game of serious competition.

How Cody thought that I don't know?

People talk about the ACL and how strong it is or not - that's not the point. The fact is a very skilled player took the field with a knee (unsupported) and exposed the cartilage and joint to a dramatically increased risk of career ending injury and a nonprofessional life of pain and discomfort.

Whether the man wanted to play or not is largely irrelevant when you consider the long term health implications. 

KK would have been far better not have him near the team and do 'one for the Gipper' rather than have all the hype and hoopla not to mention the distraction on the players wondering if Henry was fit or not. The effect of Henry Shefflin was a FAR greater blow to Kilkenny hurlers than it would have been had he not started - ignoring the boost it gave to the Tipp players.

heffo

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 05, 2010, 09:56:29 PM
I would tend to agree with Reillers here

That is genuinely the first time anyone has ever said that.

Has someone hacked into Reillers account?

heffo

#55
Quote from: Reillers on September 06, 2010, 12:12:31 AM
Quote from: gallsman on September 06, 2010, 12:00:01 AM
Quote from: Reillers on September 05, 2010, 11:51:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on September 05, 2010, 11:45:45 PM
I'm long past the stage where I ever dare to think I'm qualified to question a decision Brian Cody makes when it comes to managing a game of hurling.

Oh how "dare" we question what Cody does.  ::)

Simply pointing out that I'm nowhere near qualified to question his decisions. He's been there for 12 years, won seven All-Irelands and reached another three finals.

Was listening to Len Gaynor driving home form the match and he pointed out that the psychological boost to the other players of Shefflin starting was definitely worthwhile. If they had torn into Tipp like they did against Waterford two years ago the loss of Shefflin after 15 mins or so might not have a rallying call as opposed to a source of dismay. Tennyson (who admittedly has had a longer recovery period) lasted the full 70 and hurled quite well.

Perhaps you should put yourself forward for the Cork job next year Reillers.

How dare us average club members question the all mighty Cody.


Post Removed

imtommygunn

Quote from: heffo on September 06, 2010, 04:03:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 05, 2010, 09:56:29 PM
I would tend to agree with Reillers here

That is genuinely the first time anyone has ever said that.

Has someone hacked into Reillers account?

;D Someone had to.

I genuinely think it was very irresponsible. Like Konica said it's not just his hurling has to be considered.

What was it they said last night - he'd trained twice? Crazy.




theskull1

It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

Bacon

Down Championships Prediction League Winner 2009

johnneycool

Quote from: The Konica on September 06, 2010, 02:55:56 PM
It was a very foolish decision to start or even play Shefflin.
There is NO way the man could have played in that or any game of serious competition.

How Cody thought that I don't know?

People talk about the ACL and how strong it is or not - that's not the point. The fact is a very skilled player took the field with a knee (unsupported) and exposed the cartilage and joint to a dramatically increased risk of career ending injury and a nonprofessional life of pain and discomfort.

Whether the man wanted to play or not is largely irrelevant when you consider the long term health implications. 

KK would have been far better not have him near the team and do 'one for the Gipper' rather than have all the hype and hoopla not to mention the distraction on the players wondering if Henry was fit or not. The effect of Henry Shefflin was a FAR greater blow to Kilkenny hurlers than it would have been had he not started - ignoring the boost it gave to the Tipp players.

I'd say Cody was in a very uncomfortable position, he'd a player who he probably knew wasn't totally 100%, but was insisting he was fit to play. There was a big enough media circus around the five in a row, let alone the will he, won't he position of his talisman and that couldn't have been good for the rest of the squad either.

If he'd have told Shefflin a week earlier that he wouldn't be featuring during the game for his own good in hindsight he'd have done the right thing but he'd have been hung out to dry by the media and Kilkenny people on the 'what if? mentality
Shefflin himself may have been blinded by his own burning desire to get his place on the team and I suppose that's what seperates great hurlers from good ones. This time it didn't work out.

From a managerial POV Cody done the right thing in starting him as if he'd brought him on and as transpired it didn't work out, he'd then have to take him off again using up two substitutes leaving him less room for manouevering in the latter stages.

Who'd be a manager eh?