Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[sid waddell]

Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water

Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".

Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?

Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

[Franko]

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?

Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance

It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party" 

But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6

[Snapchap]

Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water

Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".

Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?

Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

[sid waddell]

Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water

Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".

Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?

Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

Well of course he was glorifying them

And just a couple of weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald was glorifying Kilmichael

Which, as we all know, because Shinners constantly tell us  - was exactly equivalent to Warrenpoint!

Then Mary Lou, after glorifying Kilmichael, which was equivalent to Warrenpoint - so the Shinners tell us - backtracked and told Stanley that glorification of it was out!

Sinn Fein don't know whether they're coming or going on this

Maybe Mary Lou turned up at Kilmichael to pay tribute to Tom Barry in a holistic sense, including his British Army service, although at the same time that would have made him a legitimate target

Which perhaps makes the monument itself a legitimate target, glorifying as it does a former British soldier

Curiouser and curiouser

[sid waddell]

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?

Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance

It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party" 

But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

[Angelo]

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

I think you'll find it's primarily FFG who are trying to politicise The Troubles at every single opportunity but they couldn't give a damn about the victims of British state terrorism on this island as they have shown again and again and again.

[Franko]

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?

Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance

It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party" 

But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there

[Look-Up!]

The total denial of the media and governments as to what was happening also fuelled the anger and sense of inequality. The dogs on the street knew British security forces were in collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries but to say this to most people from the Free State until only very recently they would laugh in your face. To say it to an English person they would have you committed. Media spin is a powerful thing.

Utter nonsense

People in the Republic long believed there was Loyalist/British collusion, especially as the single most devastating event of the entire Troubles took place in the Republic

Ah so the Dublin bombing was a hot topic now, not swept under the carpet. Sorry, my mistake.

Let me guess, the bastions of truth keeping people informed with accurate and free information in the relentless pursuit of justice. The BBC and RTE?

Your assertion is simply wrong

The Dublin government caved as regards pushing to find out the real truth of the bombings

But pretty much everybody down here believed there was British involvement from the get go

Open to correction but as far as I remember it was an ITV documentary in 1993 that contained the first real substantiation of this

The carping about BBC and RTE from Shinners is reminiscent of the Gembots

All yis are missing is an "RTE is the virus" avatar

BBC and RTE both had and have plenty of faults but yis sound like Celtic supporters going on about freemasons, yis sound nuts

Not in my experience. Even today if you stopped 10 random people in a southern Irish town and asked them what the B Specials were they wouldn't have a clue. You'd do better on the Dublin bombings (due to only recent publicity) but to describe the media and government response as anything other than a total whitewash would be extremely disingenuous. Some ITV documentary when the troubles were almost over, which would have limited viewership down South anyway, is stretching it to say we were all informed from the get go.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about. Maybe you think I'm someone else but I'd have little sympathy for the flak that comes government and media way. There is simply no appetite from media or government to get justice for those families. No pressure or awkward questions for politicians to deal with. In fact the hypocrisy was nauseating to see media or government trip over themselves in the rush when people like Paisley (most blood on hands from troubles) or Unionist politicians came to town, whether it be fawning over them on some Gay Byrne show or giving them a standing ovation in government buildings.

I simply stated that the assertion that very few people in the Republic believed there was Loyalist/British collusion is wrong

It is wrong

It was widely assumed from the get go that there was collusion, especially as regards the Dublin and Monaghan bombs, a lot of northern posters here have a very strange view of the views of the people in the south

But sure what the hell would they know about these views? They didn't live here! 

I would wager that the average citizen of the Republic knew far more about the North than than the average Northern Catholic knew about the South, we got all your television, and we watched it

Christ, when I was a nipper I was under the assumption that there was Loyalist/British collusion, or in children's parlance, that they were "friends"

Ian Paisley was hated down here and so were Unionists and Unionism in general, Thatcher was certainly widely despised

I'd venture that very few young Northern Catholics these days could tell you very much about the B Specials

Well that would have been fairly one sided to say the least.

If you say you know the plight of the Catholics in the north then fair enough, I'm not going to argue but to be fair it doesn't marry too well with the views that the driving force for the troubles in the 70's were about a United Ireland and Catholic's simply refused the many avenues of dialogue to power sharing open to them.

[Snapchap]

Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water

Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".

Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?

Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

Well of course he was glorifying them

And just a couple of weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald was glorifying Kilmichael

Which, as we all know, because Shinners constantly tell us  - was exactly equivalent to Warrenpoint!

Then Mary Lou, after glorifying Kilmichael, which was equivalent to Warrenpoint - so the Shinners tell us - backtracked and told Stanley that glorification of it was out!

Sinn Fein don't know whether they're coming or going on this

Maybe Mary Lou turned up at Kilmichael to pay tribute to Tom Barry in a holistic sense, including his British Army service, although at the same time that would have made him a legitimate target

Which perhaps makes the monument itself a legitimate target, glorifying as it does a former British soldier

Curiouser and curiouser

And yet, after all these rants, you still can't even quote the bit of his tweet where he "glorified" the ambushes (you know, the ones his tweet described as "a pity for everyone involved").

[Franko]

Sorry but it was exactly how the argument started

More revisionism

Unfortunately for you this time, there a written record.

The thing started with some typical moralising over a tweet from Brian Stanley regarding Kilmichael and Narrow Water

Stanley was glorifying the actual acts

There is no glory in such acts

None at all

Sure then there's nothing to stop the glorification of the Brighton bomb

Quote the bit where he glorified either Narrow Water or Kilmichael, like a good man. In reality, he described the both as a "pity for everyone".

Well if they were "a pity for everybody" are you now saying he regrets them?

Has Stanley ever shouted "Up The RA"?

David Cullinane certainly has

The Balcombe Street gang appeared at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

Sure then why not bring on the kidnappers of Don Tidey too, the guys who shot a Garda and an Irish Army man to death

This very much seems to me to be a party of glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA

And that subscription to glorification and revisionist rehabilitation of the PIRA would certainly seem to me to be a core requirement of Sinn Fein membership, or at least candidacy

As I suspected, you can't quote the part of his tweet that "glorified" what happened at Narrow Water or Kilmichael.

Meanwhile, does this count as glorification of Kilmichael?

Stanley's tweet signals a clear agreement with both Kilmichael and Warrenpoint

His party's central idea is "Up The RA" - that is what Sinn Fein as a party is about

Well apparently Fine Gael were "glorifying" the Black and Tans at the start of this year (they weren't) - at least if you're to believe the same people who say Sinn Fein do not glorify Warrenpoint! (they do)

So now you've backtracked from saying he was "glorifying" the attacks, to he was in "agreement" with them (despite his tweet describing both ambushes as "a pity for everyone"). Progress of some description, I suppose.

Well of course he was glorifying them

And just a couple of weeks ago Mary Lou McDonald was glorifying Kilmichael

Which, as we all know, because Shinners constantly tell us  - was exactly equivalent to Warrenpoint!

Then Mary Lou, after glorifying Kilmichael, which was equivalent to Warrenpoint - so the Shinners tell us - backtracked and told Stanley that glorification of it was out!

Sinn Fein don't know whether they're coming or going on this

Maybe Mary Lou turned up at Kilmichael to pay tribute to Tom Barry in a holistic sense, including his British Army service, although at the same time that would have made him a legitimate target

Which perhaps makes the monument itself a legitimate target, glorifying as it does a former British soldier

Curiouser and curiouser

And yet, after all these rants, you still can't even quote the bit of his tweet where he "glorified" the ambushes (you know, the ones his tweet described as "a pity for everyone involved").

Even if he did...

There are commemorations and a bloody monument built

Which nobody has batted an eyelid at

Until some shinner compares it to something the Provos did and the hand wringing starts

[Angelo]

As I said from the outset of this discussion

The Free State had a bombastic military celebration with dignitaries and politicians giving public orations, army tanks running down the main Dublin street, officers in uniform standing to attention in an official state celebration of the Easter Rising only 4 years ago.

How many civilians died in The Rising again?

And Sid sees no wrong with that yet decries the Provos. He's a hypocrite and it's there for all to see.

[Franko]

@sid

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"


https://twitter.com/ehallissey91/status/1339291540154363905?s=21

[marty34]

As I said from the outset of this discussion

The Free State had a bombastic military celebration with dignitaries and politicians giving public orations, army tanks running down the main Dublin street, officers in uniform standing to attention in an official state celebration of the Easter Rising only 4 years ago.

How many civilians died in The Rising again?

And Sid sees no wrong with that yet decries the Provos. He's a hypocrite and it's there for all to see.

This is it essentially.

Old Ira - good and noble.
New Ira - morally long.

I'll not be taking lessons from a muppet like Charlie Flana...ooops, Sid.

Your typical FG blueshirt.

Great that people are catching on to the hypocrisy on the the political parties in the 26 counties.

To use a hurling parlance, they've been well cleaned out on this thread.

[Hound]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

[Franko]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak