Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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Nally Stand

Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your had our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

If you come from where I come from, the first name would probably be - John Morley. Your life savings would be gone.

Jerry McCabe would certainly be high on the list, Jean McConville's name means very little in the context of the 3000 other victims. Pat Finucane would also be a name people would recall. Most people remember the Warrington bombing for the hideous death of the 2 children. They probably wouldn't remember the names but if I said Jonathon Ball and Tim Parry it might ring a bell.

People of a certain age might say the Miami Showband victims while those of a rugby bend might mention what happened Nigel Carr. Others will remember Loughlinisland because iirc that was the one where the victims were watching the ROI soccer team in the World Cup.

All hideous. A left families grieving.
My life saving wouldn't be gone. I said if I travelled across the 26 counties; not "if I travelled around muppets homeplace". If I had the time or the inclination,  I could post an endless list of posts from political discussion boards and news articles related to the conflict and the same clueless morons rehash two very specific names ad nauseum. Ditto for the Taoiseach and the FF leader. They have the right to mention these two victims all they want but what they don't have the right to do is use them for political purposes and to totally sideline thousands of other victims families who aren't as "useful" or recognisable.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

orangeman

One of the daughters of Jean McConville, who was murdered by the IRA 42 years ago, has told the BBC's Newsnight programme she is prepared to give police the names of the people she believes were responsible for her mother's death.

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is being questioned by police in Antrim about the murder.

Mrs McConville's daughter, Helen McKendry, said she was no longer afraid to speak out.

"I do not fear the IRA any more. I will happily give the names that I know to the police... Any help that I can give to catch the people who killed my mother, I will do it."

muppet

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your had our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

If you come from where I come from, the first name would probably be - John Morley. Your life savings would be gone.

Jerry McCabe would certainly be high on the list, Jean McConville's name means very little in the context of the 3000 other victims. Pat Finucane would also be a name people would recall. Most people remember the Warrington bombing for the hideous death of the 2 children. They probably wouldn't remember the names but if I said Jonathon Ball and Tim Parry it might ring a bell.

People of a certain age might say the Miami Showband victims while those of a rugby bend might mention what happened Nigel Carr. Others will remember Loughlinisland because iirc that was the one where the victims were watching the ROI soccer team in the World Cup.

All hideous. A left families grieving.
My life saving wouldn't be gone. I said if I travelled across the 26 counties; not "if I travelled around muppets homeplace". If I had the time or the inclination,  I could post an endless list of posts from political discussion boards and news articles related to the conflict and the same clueless morons rehash two very specific names ad nauseum. Ditto for the Taoiseach and the FF leader. They have the right to mention these two victims all they want but what they don't have the right to do is use them for political purposes and to totally sideline thousands of other victims families who aren't as "useful" or recognisable.

By 'policial purposes' you presumably mean, to score political points over Gerry Adams? Is that correct?
MWWSI 2017

AQMP

Quote from: orangeman on May 02, 2014, 10:22:23 AM
One of the daughters of Jean McConville, who was murdered by the IRA 42 years ago, has told the BBC's Newsnight programme she is prepared to give police the names of the people she believes were responsible for her mother's death.

Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is being questioned by police in Antrim about the murder.

Mrs McConville's daughter, Helen McKendry, said she was no longer afraid to speak out.

"I do not fear the IRA any more. I will happily give the names that I know to the police... Any help that I can give to catch the people who killed my mother, I will do it."

Based on Ed Moloney's description of the info on the Boston Tapes it's my understanding that Jean McConville was abducted from the flat by members of Cumann Na mBan who were masked.

AQMP

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/01/sinn-fein-boss-gerry-adams-wanted-this-murder-bust.html

Ed Moloney's take on this.  Basically he says that this is part of a calculated gamble by Adams to once and for all get the hoodoo of the Jean McConville case off his back.

If so, why are the Mary Lou and Marty so hot and bothered about this?

AQMP

Sinn Fein claim David Cameron phoned Martin McGuinness about Adams' arrest, not the other way round.  It's getting like a feckin' soap opera!

AZOffaly

Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.

All of a Sludden

Quote from: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 10:50:40 AM
Sinn Fein claim David Cameron phoned Martin McGuinness about Adams' arrest, not the other way round.  It's getting like a feckin' soap opera!

I'm gonna show you as gently as I can how much you don't know.

muppet

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.

Agreed.

Enda Kenny is a politician and playing politics is the arena he has to live with.

Here is a front page article on Enda in the Indo: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-like-caesars-wife-enda-sees-value-of-transparency-26839919.html

It tells us the shocking news that Enda owns his house, his office, both in Mayo, an apartment in Dublin and a field in Mayo. It goes on to tell us that he didn't have to declare all of it, and that he didn't one year, but that he did another year. That is the level of absurdity that passes for scrutiny of politicians in the south.

Now if an elected TD, who is also a leader of a political party who is aiming to get into Government, has former comrades who appear  to allege he was involved in something a lot more serious, then surely in any open democracy, the voting public, the press and other politicians are entitled to some answers?
MWWSI 2017

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: AQMP on May 02, 2014, 09:00:27 AM
However I have to say (with my paranoid Nordie head) that the longer he is held it does make me wonder, do they have something on him other than the Boston Tapes that we don't know about?  Maybe they have or maybe they just want to make him stew for a while.  My gut feeling initially was that he would have been released sometime last night.  If they go to a judge today to extend his detention then Adams might be in s-h-1-t.

They have interviewed other people.  The tapes alone would hardly merit an extension although it's within the cops remit.  If the North is anything like to south then the first extension wouldn't be questioned at all.  It's at the whim of a superintendent.

If it goes further you think that Bell or someone else gave something up.

My first thought was that Adams thought he be seen to cooperate voluntarily and put the thing to bed.  Then he could shut Enda et al. up each time they gave a chirp.

I am beginning to wonder though, Mary Lou definitely seems rattled.

If some of the family are now willing to name names then that will really ramp up the investigation activity.

Also listening to Michael McConville and Helen McKendry on the radio,  it must be said that it if they are truthful then republicans are guilty of more than their mother's murder.  Both spoke of constant intimidation from the very next day after their mother's disappearance.  Michael claimed that every time he got a job the IRA threatened the foreman/manager to get rid of him.  Helen said she was regularly threatened by people including some of the gang that took her mother away.

That sort of carry-on is alien to a lot of voters that Sinn Féin are looking to garner.  So orchestrated/political motivated or not this could have electoral repercussions.

/Jim.




Hound

Jim, are mixing up those nice people in Sinn Fein with the psychopathic scumbags of the IRA?

Main Street

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.
Why not ask a hypothetical foolish one about Enda Kenny,  a question based on a fantasy supposition of a connection to a past atrocity from , to give weight to the veracity of an antagonistic opinion. ;D

I take it that the opinion is, that it's alright to endlessly drag more milage out of the republican actions/supposed stuff/rumoured stuff that happened from the 25 year war, that there is no point where a treaty can be signed and a line can be drawn, because you have the opinion that if the shoe was on the other foot, Sinn Fein would be throwing atrocity mud at the government? ;D

This farce of arresting Adams will be seen for what it is, a crude farce, a laughable farce that will have no impact on Sinn Fein. Desperate times for desperate people.



trileacman

Quote from: Nally Stand on May 02, 2014, 09:10:29 AM
Take your head our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

What a coincidence...over 3,000 victims and look at the two names you managed to pull out:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601

Firstly I haven't a f**king penny in life savings so gamble whatever way you want. Secondly, unlike your good self I'm not an apologist for any political party, so I've no excuse for what Byrne said. I'll form my own opinions and not blindly follow the utterances of a politician.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

AZOffaly

Who's opinion Main Street?

My opinion is that politics is a dog's game, and anyone who gets to a certain level of power is going to be well able to take advantage of any baggage that an opponent has. That's why I think this whole thing is politically motivated, rather than anything to do with justice for JEan McConville.

But if the shoe was on the other foot, would I expect Sinn Fein to do the same? I think the same comment applies.

muppet

Quote from: Main Street on May 02, 2014, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 02, 2014, 09:44:38 AM
True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?

Yes, absolutely.
Why not ask a hypothetical foolish one about Enda Kenny,  a question based on a fantasy supposition of a connection to a past atrocity from , to give weight to the veracity of an antagonistic opinion. ;D

I take it that the opinion is, that it's alright to endlessly drag more milage out of the republican actions/supposed stuff/rumoured stuff that happened from the 25 year war, that there is no point where a treaty can be signed and a line can be drawn, because you have the opinion that if the shoe was on the other foot, Sinn Fein would be throwing atrocity mud at the government? ;D

This farce of arresting Adams will be seen for what it is, a crude farce, a laughable farce that will have no impact on Sinn Fein. Desperate times for desperate people.

Did you miss my post where I showed a real Sunday Indo front page article on Enda's field?
MWWSI 2017