Leinster Senior Football Championship 2023

[High Fielder]

I guess they have the bonus of history. I'm not sure if that's a legitimate measurement, but it must count for something I'd imagine. And I guess the real difference today is funding. We don't appear to have money we're willing to spend. We have a surplus (everybody does) but we only appear to have rainy day money. Everything we do is miles behind everyone else. Even at admin level, we're a very small unit. I'm saying it a long time, like it or not, we have to get the Portlaoise problem (for that's what it is) sorted. We're just not getting enough from the Town. Every county has issues that are unique to them, and Portlaoise is our elephant in the room. We have to find a way to promote the game in the Town, gather up the bodies, and then develop them. In both codes

[Butch Cassidy]

I agree High Fielder. Portlaoise have appointed a very good GDO and it will be time before they see the benefits. Can someone from Portlaoise tell me if the move of grounds has impacted playing numbers? I doubt anyone now can walk to the new grounds which can have an impact.

It would be great if a combined Portlaoise schools had a team entered in the schools A competition alongside Knockbeg. The fall off in senior and underage in Portlaoise is a big worry from an overall Laois perspective.

Ideally we need a Director of football/hurling (someone like Cheddar) to oversee everything and put proper structures in place.

[Laois Rising]

i never thought things would fall so bad, so quickly. i actually thought there was a bit of hope in making the two under 20 finals. While there would always be a bit of a fall off due to injury etc, i thought that a good young squad would have been established from the two teams. i remember talking (in loose terms!!!) to Dublin CEO John Costello after attending one of the finals in Carlow. He had the misfortune of standing on the terrace, but the conversation was that Dublin would cherry quick what they needed from these teams but Laois would need everyone one of them such was the problems in Leinster Football and to survive. Of course there were a few other barbs about Dublin funding etc thrown in but 4 years later i would have been hoping a lot more players would have been involved. The two teams from the finals,

2019 Leinster u20 Final
1. David O'Hanlon (Na Fianna) 2. Darren Maher (St Patrick's Donabate) 3. Daire Newcombe (Lucan Sarsfields) 4. Eoin O'Dea (Na Fianna) 5. Kieran Kennedy (Ballyboden St Enda's) 6. Neil Matthews (Erin's Isle) 7. Sean Lambe (St Vincent's) 8. Peadar O'Cofaigh Byrne (Cuala) 9. Donal Ryan (Na Fianna) 10. Niall O'Leary (Kilmacud Crokes) 11. Karl Lynch Bissett (Naomh Mearnóg) 12. James Doran (Na Fianna) 13. Brian O'Leary (Na Fianna) 14. Ciaran Archer (St Maurs) 15. Ross McGarry (Ballyboden St Enda's)
Subs 20. David Lacey (Na Fianna) for Donal Ryan (43) 22. Harry Ladd (Lucan Sarsfields) for Brian O'Leary (55) 17. Aaron Lynch (St. Sylvesters) for Darren Maher (55) 18. Conor Kinsella (Kilmacud Crokes) for Eoin O'Dea (57) 23. Mark Lavin (Lucan Sarsfields) for Niall O'Leary (60) 24. Sean Foran (Whitehall Colmcilles) for Kieran Kennedy (60)

Laois
1. Matthew Byron (Courtwood) 2. Michael Dowling (Portlaoise) 3. Seamus Lacey (Ballylinan 4. Alex Mohan (Portarlington) 5. Colin Slevin (Portarlington) 6. Sean O'Flynn (Courtwood) 7. Dean Brophy (St Joseph's) 8. Robert Tyrrell (Camross) 9. Eoin Dunne (Rosenallis) 10. Mark Barry (O'Dempsey's) 11. Michael Doran (Killeshin) 12. Ronan Coffey (Portarlington) 13. Alan Kinsella (Courtwood) 14. Dan McCormack (O'Dempseys) 15. Diarmuid Whelan (Ballyroan Abbey)
Subs
18. Jack Owens (Emo) for Michael Doran (36) 17. Niall Dunne (Courtwood) for Dan McCormack (38) 19. Jason Maher (Portlaoise) for Ronan Coffey (48) 22. Kevin Byrne (Ballylinan) for Lacey (55) 23. Ross Brennan (Portlaoise) for Brophy (58) 24. Jack Lacey (St. Joseph's) for Mohan (58).

2020 Leinster u20 Final
LAOIS: Mathew Byron (Courtwood); Michael Dowling (Portlaoise), Alex Mohan (Portarlington), Neil Keane (The Heath); Sean O'Flynn (Courtwood), Gary Saunders (Portlaoise), Jack Lacey (St Joseph's); Barry Howlin (O'Dempsey's), PJ Daly (The Heath); Ronan Coffey (Portarlington), Jack Owens (Emo), Damon Larkin (Portlaoise); Colin Slevin (Portarlington), Darragh Galvin (Portarlington), Mark Barry (O'Dempsey's).

Subs: Dean Brophy (St Joseph's) for Howlin (27), Sean O'Neill (The Rock) for Daly (42), Ross Bolger (Killeshin) for Lacey (47), Josh Lacey (St Joseph's) for Galvin (50), Sean Michael Corcoran (Portarlington) for Larkin (53)

DUBLIN: Josh O'Neill (St Vincent's); Alan Murphy (Lucan Sarsfields), Adam Rafter (Na Fianna), Josh Bannon (St Sylvester's); Rory Dwyer (St Margaret's), Adam Waddick (Thomas Davis), Lee Gannon (Whitehall Colmcilles); Killian McGinnis (Skerries Harps), Evan Caulfield (Clan na Gael Fontenoy); Mark Lavin (Lucan Sarsfields), Lorcan O'Dell Templeogue Synge Street), Sean Foran (Whitehall Colmcilles); Ciaran Archer (St Maur's), Luke Swan (Castleknock), Kieran McKeon (Clontarf).

Subs: Aaron Fearon (Skerries Harps) for McGinnis (41), Padraig Purcell (Kilmacud Crokes) for Foran (45), Conor Kinsella (Kilmacud Crokes) for Bannon (47), Stephen Braiden (Thomas Davis) for O'Dell (54), Conor Tyrell (St Oliver Plunkett's-Eoghan Rua) for Murphy (60)

Those Dublin teams were comfortable enough winners in both of those finals. Of those two Dublin squads, as you mention, only a couple were cherry picked, and are now part of a Dublin senior set up. If Ciaran Archer was available to Laois he would probably be one of our main forwards right now. In Dublin, he failed to make the grade last year and was cut from the panel. It just shows the frightening gap that exists.

Strong underage teams where the collective is strong do not necessarily improve the senior set up as the players move up. What you really want is 2/3 really outstanding players driving those team who are head and shoulders above the rest of their team mates. These are the lads who might make a difference and improve things as they step up to senior level. Of the last 5 years or so we have been fairly competitive at u20 level. However, those teams have predominantly possessed all "good" footballers. If you think of the successful underage teams of the 90s and 00s they were sprinkled with standout underage talents e.g. Conway, Beano, Fitzgerald in the 90s and O'Loughlin, Kingston, Healy and Tuohy in the 00s. You couldn't really say that of the teams of recent years.

[The Saint]

I think we have a myriad of problems. - The last 5 management appointments have been very flat, and even though John Sugrue is in the middle of all that, and did a really good job,  I'm still saying that we haven't managed to get anyone that'd be of high quality, high profile or in any way visionary. Every successful team responds a real leader, whether in sport or in work. Have we put mgmt teams in place that young lads will really want to stand up and follow? - For whatever reason we're just not turning out enough high calibre players nowadays either. And the lack of quality in our club championship really speaks to that. Underage development in Laois is probably similar to 20 yrs ago, but everyone else has moved on. We haven't. - I'm just not sure how much of a contributing factor the "Portlaoise problem" is? I mean, what's peoples ultimate vision here? Throw the kitchen sink at improving Portlaoise and increasing participation numbers, and turn them into an unstoppable machine in Laois, similar to Dublin in Leinster? Why is it the Portlaoise problem... surely its the St Josephs problem, Stradbally problem, Graigue problem, Portarlington problem etc etc etc too. And I don't mean that to sound small-minded or parochial ! We won minor all-Irelands with lads from the 4 corners of Laois, not just Portlaoise. I get the population piece, but that hasn't drastically changed in the last 20yrs, whereas our standard and competitiveness has. - I'd be really concerned with what the prize is on offer for committing to Laois now... just supposing we had sneaked promotion to Div 3 for example... I couldn't see anything other than an instant return to Div 4... so what's really in it for these young lads at the minute? -  On the plus side we have a great county ground, centre of excellence and when the thing is done right we have a good base of support. People will get behind Laois when we've even got a punchers chance... but do we even have that?  I just think right now we've descended to such a low point that its almost impossible to know where to even start!

[High Fielder]

Two very good posts. Both excellent in fact. These debates need to be had. I singled out Portlaoise because it's such an obvious place to start, but you're right Saint, it's a county wide issue. In fairness, your club is contributing more than most, and doing good things

[Joeythelips]

But you have to look at what can be fixed quickly. I agree there needs to be a long term strategy and plan put in place to help player development etc but you have to have a proper management team in charge of the senior team. Laois have been an embarrassment this year, make no mistake about it and we are saying well let's accept our fate as we dont have good players.
Look at counties like Louth, Clare, Fermanagh. Hardly huge counties yet they are not struggling in the depths of Div 4. They dont have endless conveyor belts of talent they wheel out so what are they doing right in those counties?

[Giovanni]

Excellent post.

Clare in particular is a dual county that has had limited underage success and yet are able to produce competitive teams in both codes on a consistent basis. Not surprising that they have very good senior managers for both teams.

[Laois man]

Need leaders at the top tables and work from the top down don't think we have that do.

[Ballybrittas Boy]

you're right Saint, it's a county wide issue. In fairness, your club is contributing more than most, and doing good things

While they are doing some decent work at underage, it's a bit disappointing that they only have one player on the senior panel (and he was a transfer!)

[clonadmad]

Will all the underage squads in both codes when they get knocked out this year

Be kept together and continue on with a S&C program ?

If not that's one area that should be looked at as a matter of urgency

[High Fielder]

you're right Saint, it's a county wide issue. In fairness, your club is contributing more than most, and doing good things

While they are doing some decent work at underage, it's a bit disappointing that they only have one player on the senior panel (and he was a transfer!)

Signs are promising for a few more in the coming years. I have s feeling you'll be competitive again in years to come

[Joeythelips]

Excellent post.

Clare in particular is a dual county that has had limited underage success and yet are able to produce competitive teams in both codes on a consistent basis. Not surprising that they have very good senior managers for both teams.

100%, in fact if you had a good pool of players it would be wasted if you had a poor management team in place, so its the crucial piece of the puzzle. Good coaches improve players, we see it clear as day in other counties. If we are honest its plain to see we are going no where under the current set up.

[High Fielder]

In fairness we have roughly 2/3rds of Clare's population. It does matter, despite some people telling you it doesn't. We're also a proper dual county, unlike counties such as Monaghan, who are predominantly football. The odds are seriously stacked against us, and we must remember that always when we're beating ourselves up. The example above of Ciaran Archer is a good one. It's inconceivable that he's not good enough for Dublin; we'd spend the next 10 years coming to that conclusion, and we have with plenty of similar types

[Giovanni]

If population was the key, Meath and Kildare - basically one-code counties - should be permanently Division 1. It doesn't work like that. You need a team to be motivated and well prepared.

[georgedoylesrightleg]

In fairness we have roughly 2/3rds of Clare's population. It does matter, despite some people telling you it doesn't. We're also a proper dual county, unlike counties such as Monaghan, who are predominantly football. The odds are seriously stacked against us, and we must remember that always when we're beating ourselves up. The example above of Ciaran Archer is a good one. It's inconceivable that he's not good enough for Dublin; we'd spend the next 10 years coming to that conclusion, and we have with plenty of similar types

lacks pace cant win or create own ball n scores. obvious from long way out