Are Dublin the best team ever ?

[Denn Forever]

Too early to call them the best ever, but it will take a collapse of seismic proportions to stop Dublin from winning this year's All Ireland... Imo, neither Donegal, Kerry or Mayo have the forwards or the depth of quality on the bench to outscore the Dubs, unless there is an improbable collapse from the Dubs.

Maybe we all bought into the bandwagon.

[Sidney]

Leinster fuball is very weak at the moment which also helps Dublin look great.  They should be thrown to the dogs in Ulster for the craic to see how well they'd do chasing the Anglo Celt.

Donegal when on form are probably the only team which can challenge a Dublin team playing at the levels they have been this year. Dublin would destroy any other Ulster team, and would likely have beaten Kerry or Mayo comfortably based on Saturday's match. They'd have beaten them, anyway.

The failure of Jim Gavin to operate a defensive plan on Sunday was obviously the main criticism levelled at him. But the air of invincibility that that Dublin had this year was a product of that same all-out attacking philosophy and willingness to commit defenders to attack. That will bamboozle almost any other team and I don't think Kerry or Mayo would have coped. But Dublin under Gavin had never come up against what Donegal do. No other team can do what Donegal do and deny space to the same extent. You must deny space to Dublin because they'l hammer you otherwise. Sunday showed that supreme defence with great counter-attacking will always likely beat supreme attack. It was a sort of Italy-Brazil 1982 of Gaelic football.

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

[screenexile]

I'd say Antrim are the biggest joke of a county and that's saying something. Just you worry about your little social clubs and cheap pints.

Nah, Derry are.

We're really not!!!

[Stall the Bailer]

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the  tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.

It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if  they had addressed these issues.

[Sidney]

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the  tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.

It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if  they had addressed these issues.

Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.

[nrico2006]

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the  tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.

It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if  they had addressed these issues.

Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.

Tyrone in 2004 were dealing with the death of their captain and were probably caught on the hop against Mayo considering the result of the earlier match that day.  In 2006 and 2007 Tyrone were decimated with injuries to key players, Ill never forget how deplted they were against Derry in the first round in 2006.

[screenexile]

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the  tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.

It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if  they had addressed these issues.

Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.

Tyrone in 2004 were dealing with the death of their captain and were probably caught on the hop against Mayo considering the result of the earlier match that day.  In 2006 and 2007 Tyrone were decimated with injuries to key players, Ill never forget how deplted they were against Derry in the first round in 2006.

I'll never forget that day either

[seafoid]

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the  tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.

It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if  they had addressed these issues.

Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.

Surely Dublin are subject to the same "hunger" limits as the other big teams. This second season thing is always likely to be an issue. It takes an awful lot of mental energy and focus to win an all Ireland.

BTW how can you say that Throne were better than this Donegal team? Is it not a bit early to declare ?   

[Brick Tamlin]

Where is that eejit Fuzzman now?
Crowing about Dublin 10 pages back.

[Sidney]

However if Donegal win the All-Ireland they will more than likely not get back to near the same levels as 2012 or 2014 next year given that the phenomenal physical and mental demands required to make their system work at the highest level. As no other team can currently do what Donegal do, it's likely that Dublin will once again win the All-Ireland in 2015 if they are on anything like the same form.

Tyrone's defensive system regularly bamboozled Kerry in the 2000s but Tyrone could never sustain that over successive years, and they were a more talented team than Donegal. Kerry's outrageous pure talent always allowed them back in for more All-Irelands. It's very likely that'll be the case with Dublin (although Kerry also had more pure talent than this Dublin team) as they are comfortably the most talented group of players around now.

It was not just hungry and injuries that prevented Tyrone winning back to back titles. There were many other reasons. Such as the  tragedies the panel had to deal with, Armargh being at a similar standard, not be able to build up slowly and only peak for the provincial final to enter the last 8, unlike other counties could do.

It wasn't hungry or injuries that prevent Dublin winning a back to back this year, it was a mixture of not taking goal chances when it mattered, complacency, and no plan b. That is no guarantee that they would have beat Donegal and Kerry if  they had addressed these issues.

Armagh weren't a factor in Tyrone not being the same force in 2004, 2006, 2007 or 2009, as Tyrone didn't play them in 2004, 2006 or 2007, and Tyrone beat them in 2009 when Armagh were in serious decline. Injuries and other things aside, Tyrone were way off the pace of the their All-Ireland wins in each of those years, and none of the teams that beat them went on to win the All-Ireland.

Surely Dublin are subject to the same "hunger" limits as the other big teams. This second season thing is always likely to be an issue. It takes an awful lot of mental energy and focus to win an all Ireland.

BTW how can you say that Throne were better than this Donegal team? Is it not a bit early to declare ?

All players are likely subject to hunger limits to an extent. Hunger was a problem for Dublin in 2012 - they were below par right from the start of the year - but I don't think it was a problem this year as the players would likely have taken winning last year's All-Ireland much more in their stride than 2011. Certainly 2013 wasn't as big a deal to the Dublin public as 2011. Dublin's massive panel and the competition for places is obviously another factor that should allow them to compete year after year. Donegal don't have that and it would take an even better coaching performance from McGuinness to get them back competing at the same level next year. Also winning an All-Ireland is simply a bigger deal for a county like Donegal or Tyrone than it is for a county like Kerry or Dublin. The celebrations are longer, more intense and take more out of the players for the next year.

I think it's unarguable that Tyrone were a much more talented team of pure footbalers, man for man, than Donegal - they had nine or ten players who were certainly as good as anything Kerry had and maybe better, (you can't say that about Donegal) although I think Kerry had a deeper pool of talent. But, similar to Donegal, the way they played involved a specific game plan that demanded a huge level of intensity. Injures or not, they weren't able to keep that same intensity year after year - only in 2008 and 2009 were they even able to reach successive semi-finals. Injuries can only account for so much of that - the team they started against Meath in 2007 for instance, was not weaker on paper than their 2008 team but turned in a far inferior performance. I do also take the point that the Ulster championship is in general, more intense than the Leinster or Munster championships which Dublin and Kerry have to come through. A consistently tough route to the later stages of the championship mitigates against consistent, year on year success because it's both mentally and physically draining, but can have benefits in individual years where a team has had a break and is refreshed and hungry, like Tyrone in 2005 and 2008 and Donegal this year.

[Stall the Bailer]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but there are other reasons why back to back titles are difficult.
I believe it would easier for Kerry or Dublin to do it though.

Ease of Draw
Dublin and Kerry currently have (this applies to Mayo as well) an easier route to the quarter finals, one tough game at most.
in 2014 all 3 had an easy ride to last 8.
2015 should not be much more difficult for them either. Cork will hope to be better, new manager in Mayo could alter things but if they perform as this year all should be in the last 8 next year.
Donegal will be favourites in Ulster  next year, but an improving Armagh, and others such as Monaghan/Tyrone and Derry if they improve could cause a shock.


Retirement of players/managers
This will effect how you might do the next year. I'm sure many didn't expect Kerry to win in 1987.
Time will only tell who will call it a day after this year. Of the last 4 Mayo have already lost their manager, could Jim also call it a day?
I would guess Dublin will have the least players retiring of the 4.

If Mayo ever won it in the next few years, I'm sure few would bet on them doing the double, as there would be some celebrating done out west.

[Syferus]

I can only see Alan Dillon retiring from Mayo. Maybe Richie Feeney but he started so late I doubt he won't give it a go with the new manager.

[Johnnybegood]

Back to back titles aren't beyond this Dublin team.
Most players are aged between 24-27, a few years left on the clock before judgement on their greatness!

[Fuzzman]

Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.

[brokencrossbar1]

Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.

We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'.  We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10.  The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach.  They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey.  As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country,  whether they are or not.  The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief.  I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy.  At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this.  I would not put Dublin in that category as a county.  They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure?  Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers,  built out of training grids and spreadsheets,  they are pure footballers.  They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A.  That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.