The Palestine thread

[Ulick]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

For all the Israeli technology, the targeted bombings such as the one that killed Ahmed al-Jabari could not happen without collaborators and informers on the ground pointing out the targets. Lowest of the low. Harrowing to see their bodies dragged through the streets but IMO understandable in a desperate situation when you want others to think twice before taking the shekel. 

[nrico2006]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other, murder is murder.  From the news reports I have seen, it seems that all this has started up again due to rockets being launched from Gaza into Israel. 

[nrico2006]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

[Nally Stand]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other, murder is murder. From the news reports I have seen, it seems that all this has started up again due to rockets being launched from Gaza into Israel.

As the old saying goes, "never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level then beat you with experience."

So I think I'll just leave you to it.

[glens abu]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

Ok then so the allies during the war were as bad as the Germans[Houlacust and all]  because the French shot people who collaborated with the Germans, >:(load of balls

[seafoid]

A new low.  Sympathy for the Gaza crisis is hard to maintain when you see that.

10% of the kids in Gaza are severely malnourished. The Strip will be unfit for human habitation by 2020. 95% of the water is undrinkable .

Gaza has been systematically de developed by Israel

http://www.palestine-studies.org/files/pdf/jps/1069.pdf

[nrico2006]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

Ok then so the allies during the war were as bad as the Germans[Houlacust and all]  because the French shot people who collaborated with the Germans, >:(load of balls

Those pictures of the men dragging a body around by motorbike are as harrowing as I am likely to see.  How can their actions be seen any differently than the other sides? 

[nrico2006]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

I would say where the anger is directed at on this thread is in direct proportion to the events as they have unfolded. 5 Israelis killed compared to over 140 Palestinians, over 20% of whom were children? What do you expect, a wishy-washy discussion where we pretend both sides are just as bad as each other?

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other, murder is murder. From the news reports I have seen, it seems that all this has started up again due to rockets being launched from Gaza into Israel.

As the old saying goes, "never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level then beat you with experience."

So I think I'll just leave you to it.

Good lad.

[Denn Forever]

I am not arguing that things are sh*t in Gaza.  I was just commenting on the dragging of the body through the street behind a motorbike.  I fear now for the families of these collaborators.

It is hard to hear about Democracy in this conflict.  The lesson learned is that we should strive for democracy as long as it is the democracy we think is right.

[glens abu]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

Ok then so the allies during the war were as bad as the Germans[Houlacust and all]  because the French shot people who collaborated with the Germans, >:(load of balls

Those pictures of the men dragging a body around by motorbike are as harrowing as I am likely to see.  How can their actions be seen any differently than the other sides?

Well I just wish I was able to post the photos of the many mutilated children that I have seen from Gaza in the past week,children who did nothing and not part of the war unlike the collaborators who were shot.

[seafoid]

The use of collaborators is one of the many disturbing aspects of Israeli apartheid. Collaborators are often blackmailed into working for Israel or given special privileges and have a very high mortality rate . 

http://www.btselem.org/English/Testimonies/20080911_Muhammad_Khawajah_age_12_detained_by_IDF.asp

Testimony: 12-year-old beaten and imprisoned with adults, Sept. '08
Muhammad Khawajah, 12

I live with my family in Ni'lin. We live on the ground floor of the house, my two uncles and their families live on the first floor, and my grandmother lives on the second floor. Last Thursday [11 September], around 3:00 A.M., I woke up from my mother's shouts. She was shouting, "Get up! Get up! The army is here!" My father wasn't home that night. I got up and went out with her to the inner courtyard of the house. There were about 12 soldiers there, and their faces were painted black. One soldier wore a black hat that covered his face. He sat on the stairs outside the house and didn't take part. I think he was a collaborator who led them to houses. The soldiers were on the first floor. I heard them tell my Uncle Sami to direct them to our floor. One of the soldiers asked, "Where is Muhammad?", and I realized he was asking about me. The soldier told my uncle to call me, so he did. I started walking towards them. Two soldiers grabbed me and took me outside. I realized they wanted to arrest me. I was afraid, and began to cry, and called my uncle to come with me.
The soldiers cuffed my hands tight with plastic handcuffs, which hurt a lot. A soldier grabbed me by the shirt from behind and started walking and pushing me forward. The shirt was up against my neck and I couldn't breathe properly. I tried to free myself, and he punched me in the back and pulled the shirt tighter, choking me even more. Another soldier also punched me and pulled my hair as we walked. I cried and called out for my uncle and my father. The soldiers hit me and said, "Quiet! Quiet!" They led me to an alleyway between the houses, where there are cactuses. We were walking by some cactuses and then one of the soldiers pushed me into them. The thorns pricked me in the hands and legs. The soldiers kept on pushing me forward and hitting me along the way.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/13/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast

From a plastic chair on his front porch Samir looked out over a garden neatly planted with rose bushes. In this house Samir, his wife, and five of their children are living a new life, surrounded by Jewish Israeli neighbours and, like them, in the firing line of the makeshift Palestinian rockets that target the Israeli town of Sderot. Last year one of these Qassam rockets fired only a couple of miles away in Gaza crashed into his garden, sending shrapnel up the front of the house.  Samir is not his real name, for this heavy-set, 52-year-old Palestinian is scared to reveal his true identity. This is his fresh start, his reward after working for more than 20 years in secret in his native Gaza as a collaborator with the Israeli security forces. "I don't regret any of my story," he said. "I'm very happy that I helped the state of Israel. Here everything is straightforward, not like with the Arabs. Here there is a law and there are rights." Many of Sderot's residents are trying to sell their houses and move to safer towns beyond the reach of the rockets. But Palestinians such as Samir are moving in, in part because property is cheaper but also because there are others like them here, a community of perhaps 80 collaborators - they prefer to use a Hebrew word that translates as "assistants" - and their close relatives.
Most arrived before the rockets, when Sderot was simply an inexpensive Israeli town close to the Gaza border and convenient for occasional family visits. Those visits are now too dangerous and most of the Palestinians in Sderot now acknowledge they can never go home. Samir was caught in 1994, the year that Yasser Arafat returned to Gaza in the wake of the Oslo peace accords. A friend and distant relative had given up Samir's name during a brutal interrogation. Samir had spent years giving the Israelis whatever information he could find about the armed groups and their planned attacks, work he kept secret even from his wife. But Palestinian collaborators risk death if they are caught by their own people. 




http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000976.html

Jody Kollapen, who was head of Lawyers for Human Rights in the apartheid regime, watches silently. He sees the "carousel" into which masses of people are jammed on their way to work, visit family or go to the hospital. Israeli peace activist Neta Golan, who lived for several years in the besieged city, explains that only 1 percent of the inhabitants are allowed to leave the city by car, and they are suspected of being collaborators with Israel . Nozizwe Madlala-Routledge, a former deputy minister of defense and of health and a current member of Parliament, a revered figure in her country, notices a sick person being taken through on a stretcher and is shocked. "To deprive people of humane medical care? You know, people die because of that," she says in a muted voice. 



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/25/palestinian-collaborator-jailed

Hers is a grim story of an unhappy life and naivety. Enticed out of the occupied West Bank and into Israel, then plunged into a high-risk spying effort that lasted for five months until her capture, Tibi was lucky to escape with her life: collaborators, who are nearly always men, are so reviled among Palestinians that many are either shot in the street or sentenced to years on death row.
She did not speak to journalists after her hearing last week, but accounts from prosecutors involved in her case paint a scattered picture of Tibi's life. Originally from Tulkarem, she was living with her family in Nablus, in the north of the occupied West Bank. She attended school until the age of 16 but then her father ordered her to marry an older man. It was an unhappy marriage: she told the court that he had forced her into prostitution. Within a few years she was divorced and increasingly cut off from her family.
Several months ago Tibi met an Arab-Israeli in Nablus, named Mahmoud, who persuaded her to join him on a trip back into Israel. She agreed, though it should perhaps have raised her suspicions when he arranged a rare permit for her to leave the West Bank.
The couple slept together and then he took her to an office in Tel Aviv, where Israeli security service agents apparently confronted her with a video of her in bed with the man, the prosecutors said. They threatened to pass the video back to her family unless she helped them and also apparently promised her 100,000 shekels (£15,500) if she would pass them regular information about a group of militants in Nablus.

[ballinaman]

Unreal stuff....

http://www.economist.com/node/21566931

[Nally Stand]

Unreal stuff....

http://www.economist.com/node/21566931

From above sourse:
"Total number of Israelis killed by rocket, mortar or anti-tank fire from Gaza since 2006: 47
(Source: Wikipedia. This is disputed; another source says 26)

Number of Palestinians in Gaza killed by Israeli fire from April 1st 2006 to July 21st 2012: 2,879"
[/i]

Both sides are obviously as bad as each other

[give her dixie]

Going by this thread you would swear it was all one way, harrowing pictures on TV last night of Israeli nationals bodies been dragged around by motorbikes.

No Israeli nationals were dragged around by motorbikes. Get your facts right.

Really sorry there.  Does it make any difference what their nationality is?  They were brutally murdered due to a perceived link to Israel.

It made a difference as you tried to portray that the men were Israeli's. Yes it is sad to see, and wrong, but if you could only imagine the situation on the ground there, you would maybe understand why it was done. Several houses have been hit, and people killed, and it was informers who provided the locations. It went on here as well.

If you think that that image is the worst thing you have ever seen, try having a look at some of the images coming out of Gaza. Take your pick from images of burn babies. Babies in parts. Amputee's,  etc, etc, etc. They are beyond words I can assure you.

[Hardy]

What a sick auction is going on here.