Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[the half-time show]

A strong county team needs players from strong clubs in order to be successful. Clubs with a strong tradition of supplying top class players to the county e.g. Bellaghy [0 players last year]  Lavey [1 player last year], Dungiven [0 players last year], Glenullin [0 players last year], Ballinderry [0 players last year,] Screen [1 player last year] etc haven't been supplying these players in the same numbers as they used to, if at all, and for me this is part of the reason why Derry are so weak at the minute. [* put a question mark after my number of players from the listed clubs as i have a poor memory lol]

And this is not in any way a slight on the great work by clubs who maybe have not been traditional suppliers of county players in big numbers eg Slaughtneil and Coleraine, who have done brilliantly to be at the top of the Derry club tree, who are supplying players

A complete and utter nonsense of a point to try and make.  None of those clubs listed in the first paragraph (with the exception of Ballinderry) have had any modicum of success in over a decade yet we should still be relying on them to make up large numbers of the county panel because they used to be good?

I'd bet very good money that a team made up entirely of Slaughtneil and Coleraine players would beat a team derived from those clubs you mention at this current time.  It's about the best 25-30 players we have in a county as a whole and whether they come from traditionally big clubs, clubs enjoying current success or indeed clubs that have very little going for them makes absolutely no difference.

The bottom line in my opinion is that you can't have it both ways; either the county is prioritised and clubs accept that their best players will be with Derry for large parts of the season or we can focus purely on the club season with the aim of producing more talented footballers further down the line as a result of regular competitive football against other clubs.  At the minute we have neither.

[Keyser soze]

A strong county team needs players from strong clubs in order to be successful. Clubs with a strong tradition of supplying top class players to the county e.g. Bellaghy [0 players last year]  Lavey [1 player last year], Dungiven [0 players last year], Glenullin [0 players last year], Ballinderry [0 players last year,] Screen [1 player last year] etc haven't been supplying these players in the same numbers as they used to, if at all, and for me this is part of the reason why Derry are so weak at the minute. [* put a question mark after my number of players from the listed clubs as i have a poor memory lol]

And this is not in any way a slight on the great work by clubs who maybe have not been traditional suppliers of county players in big numbers eg Slaughtneil and Coleraine, who have done brilliantly to be at the top of the Derry club tree, who are supplying players

A complete and utter nonsense of a point to try and make.  None of those clubs listed in the first paragraph (with the exception of Ballinderry) have had any modicum of success in over a decade yet we should still be relying on them to make up large numbers of the county panel because they used to be good?

I'd bet very good money that a team made up entirely of Slaughtneil and Coleraine players would beat a team derived from those clubs you mention at this current time.  It's about the best 25-30 players we have in a county as a whole and whether they come from traditionally big clubs, clubs enjoying current success or indeed clubs that have very little going for them makes absolutely no difference.

The bottom line in my opinion is that you can't have it both ways; either the county is prioritised and clubs accept that their best players will be with Derry for large parts of the season or we can focus purely on the club season with the aim of producing more talented footballers further down the line as a result of regular competitive football against other clubs.  At the minute we have neither.

Eeehhhhh?? It would have been a nonsense of a point if that's the point I was making. Sure you are re-emphasising what I just said. 

Of course Slaughtneil/Coleraine would beat the pick of the other teams named, thats because these clubs haven't developed players like the 2 above. The 'big' clubs I named don't deserve to have any more county players, that isn't what i am saying. But the fact that they haven't been is why the Derry team is is in Div 3 at the minute.

I fundamentally disagree with your second paragraph though, the last number of years the priority has been to elevate the county teams above all else, to the detriment of the clubs. This has not worked for us and \o do not believe it will work for us in the future. How can the clubs buy into supporting the county team when there is no respect given to the clubs. it needs to be a 2 way street and at the minute that is patently not the case. Of course the best players will go the county and spend a lot of time there, nobody would be happier than me if we were competitive at all levels for the county, i am a massive Derry fan, but if we continue down the road we are going which is elitism based and Owenbegcentric we will not catch up with counties we should be competing with.

[tbrick18]

Clubs with improving players and standard of football will inevitably, over time, filter to the county team. A higher quality of players available from clubs (any clubs) will improve county standard.
Likewise, a higher standard of county team who gain some success will, over time, improve the club teams. I say this for a number of reasons.
The club player with the county, will generally be training with and playing against players of a higher calibre than those at their club. This should improve them, and as a result when they return to their clubs improve their team.
If the county team has some success then that success will filter to clubs. Kids will see the crowds at county matches and enjoy trappings of success and want some of that for themselves and so will be more inclined to join/stay with the club.

County feeds off club and club feeds off county.
I think we have too many within our county who are blinkered by club first or county first or indeed who are just anti-owenbeg. These attitudes don't help at all. It should be a case of all in together for the betterment of county, clubs and players (in no particular order). This might be a bit aspirational, but I think its true.

[the half-time show]

I did think I may have misinterpreted your point Keyser as you're generally one of the more sensible posters, but I still don't agree that there is any necessity for those clubs (or indeed any club) to produce several players of county standard.  Rarely will a club have a conveyor belt of talented players coming through into the senior age group that we can rely on them having several players up with the county team.  Instead it's much more cyclical with the likes of Slaughtneil and Coleraine currently enjoying a generation of excellent players

There may well have been a proposal brought in over the last couple of years aimed at promoting the county team (the current league structure being in the 2nd year of implementation) but in what way has this been a detriment to the clubs?  They have their full panel of players available for ALL league games, leagues are being run off before the championship starts so no longer running into October and November, clear "holiday periods" in July are laid out at the start of the year and additional competitions were set up to ensure regular club players would still be getting games even when the county are competiting in Ulster or the qualifiers. 

How does this represent no respect being given?

[Keyser soze]

I did think I may have misinterpreted your point Keyser as you're generally one of the more sensible posters, but I still don't agree that there is any necessity for those clubs (or indeed any club) to produce several players of county standard.  Rarely will a club have a conveyor belt of talented players coming through into the senior age group that we can rely on them having several players up with the county team.  Instead it's much more cyclical with the likes of Slaughtneil and Coleraine currently enjoying a generation of excellent players

There may well have been a proposal brought in over the last couple of years aimed at promoting the county team (the current league structure being in the 2nd year of implementation) but in what way has this been a detriment to the clubs?  They have their full panel of players available for ALL league games, leagues are being run off before the championship starts so no longer running into October and November, clear "holiday periods" in July are laid out at the start of the year and additional competitions were set up to ensure regular club players would still be getting games even when the county are competiting in Ulster or the qualifiers. 

How does this represent no respect being given?

The point I am making is that half a dozen of our big clubs, who are all still top senior teams even if they haven't been winning stuff in a decade or in some cases more than that, are not producing county standard players and that this is a major systemic problem for our county and is the main reason IMO that we are not competing at the top table or anywhere near it. 

I would say that having no competitive games for 3 months during the height of the GAA season is an obvious sign of disrespect to the clubs. And don't start me on the secondary competitions, a carnival cup would have more cachet. 

[imtommygunn]

Are they not producing county standard players or are they not producing players who want to play for the county? Did Ballinderry not at least have Bell last year?

[Squareball71]

It doesn't matter how good,bad or indifferent underage coaching and development squads are if we are going to keep making a mockery of the leagues. As some alluded to earlier very few, if any senior players are turned on by a 12 week break and playing what can only be described as glorified friendlies.
As far as I am aware there are players who have played County U.17/Minor and U20/U21 over the last couple of years that decided to go to America to play rather than stay at home and play these meaningless games. For me that is not improving anything in the County.   

[lenny]

It doesn't matter how good,bad or indifferent underage coaching and development squads are if we are going to keep making a mockery of the leagues. As some alluded to earlier very few, if any senior players are turned on by a 12 week break and playing what can only be described as glorified friendlies.
As far as I am aware there are players who have played County U.17/Minor and U20/U21 over the last couple of years that decided to go to America to play rather than stay at home and play these meaningless games. For me that is not improving anything in the County.

Lol, what utter bulls!it. Players have been going to the USA for years. If we cancelled the Larkin cup, mcglinchey cup etc next year and ran a 22 match league there'd still be the same number of young players heading off to the states and back for the championship. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

[Squareball71]

It doesn't matter how good,bad or indifferent underage coaching and development squads are if we are going to keep making a mockery of the leagues. As some alluded to earlier very few, if any senior players are turned on by a 12 week break and playing what can only be described as glorified friendlies.
As far as I am aware there are players who have played County U.17/Minor and U20/U21 over the last couple of years that decided to go to America to play rather than stay at home and play these meaningless games. For me that is not improving anything in the County.

Lol, what utter bulls!it. Players have been going to the USA for years. If we cancelled the Larkin cup, mcglinchey cup etc next year and ran a 22 match league there'd still be the same number of young players heading off to the states and back for the championship. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Granted players do go away each and every year but there are young players who, when they realised there was going to be a 12 week break this season were looking away and did go and that is a fact.

[Billy Magoo]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

[TheOptimist]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

If this thread proves anything it is you can never keep everyone happy, and Derry folk seem grumpier than most.

You have a point above, but the bit in bold is part of the problem. Stated as if the club have control of the players. Players should be free from any pressure to make up their own minds, they shouldn't need to be "sent" or released or allowed or whatever a club wants to call it.

[Billy Magoo]

Ok maybe a bad choice of words.  We don't send the players, its entirely their choice.  Perhaps I should have used the word 'encouraging'?  Anyhow, my original point stands.

[lenny]

Ok maybe a bad choice of words.  We don't send the players, its entirely their choice.  Perhaps I should have used the word 'encouraging'?  Anyhow, my original point stands.

That's why the league cups are a great compromise. Lots of games for the non county players. I've spoken to players in other counties who've gone 8 weeks with no games. They'd love the Derry system.

[TheOptimist]

Ok maybe a bad choice of words.  We don't send the players, its entirely their choice.  Perhaps I should have used the word 'encouraging'?  Anyhow, my original point stands.

Fair enough, but no doubt there would be alot of pressure on county fringe players from clubs to pack it in and give the club 100%

[Keyser soze]

Lenny no offence but you are on here defending those league cups when everyone and their dog know they are a load of crap. You also constantly take the county board line on all issues and it is clear you are on here either as a county board member or a proxy  to reflect their opinion and blindly support them on any issue up for discussion.

Your complete inability to even acknowledge any other point of view or opinion is just so reflective of the arrogant way the county board operates.