A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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BennyCake

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2017, 11:00:15 PM
Brexit was obviously sold to Imperial types, who resented that partnership in the EU where Britian is not boss.  But it took a false narrative about the economy and £350m for the NHS to get it over the line. Hard to see how you can claim that keeping NI is economically beneficial to England.

Brexit was sold with some lies. But are those lies any worse than the bullshit that is spouted by toffs in general election campaigns?

armaghniac

General election campaigns have lies, to be sure. You can do something about it at the next election though.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 29, 2017, 08:29:49 PM
Your pretty delusion lads if you a UK wide vote would  result be pro UI. You overestimate the English, just look at Brexit FFS. The reason they voted for it wasnt because they felt like the EU took too much money for them, it was because they believe that they should reestablish their empire which the EU is preventing them from doing.
Or indyref & the SNP, the Scots are a bunch of scrougers apparently but when they wanted to go it alone Sturgeon Salmon etc are evil personified.

There is no way the average English person would be willing to give up any more of their empire if they can help it, no matter how much it costs.

Historically polls in GB have heavilly backed Irish unity its only in recent years that people back Northern Ireland to stay in UK because things have been quiet for so long. Any sort of flare ups in the future and they will want shot of us again ASAP


Applesisapples

Brexit in the UK was won primarily on the demonising of foreign nationals. Ironically many of those who voted leave were of black or asian origin, more British than the Brits themselves.

BennyCake

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 30, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
Brexit in the UK was won primarily on the demonising of foreign nationals. Ironically many of those who voted leave were of black or asian origin, more British than the Brits themselves.

Again, there were a range of issues why people voted for Brexit. And there was a range of issues why I voted for Brexit.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM


Owen Brannigan

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 30, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
Brexit in the UK was won primarily on the demonising of foreign nationals. Ironically many of those who voted leave were of black or asian origin, more British than the Brits themselves.

Actually, the whole immigration issue was against those of east European origin and those of african and asian heritage are just as xenophobic as the standard english man or woman when it comes to the eastern Europeans.

Meanwhile the greatest number of immigrants to UK was from outside the EU and continues to be.  UK seems to have no control on the immigrants from non-EU countries.

armaghniac

The large scale East European immigration was a phase, already net immigration from Poland etc is negligible and immigration from Bulgaria and Romania will follow the same pattern, if only because of the demographics in these places. The whole Brexit thing is based in something that wouldn't last anyhow. Of course there is an almost unlimited number of people outside the EU.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2017, 11:00:15 PM
Brexit was obviously sold to Imperial types, who resented that partnership in the EU where Britian is not boss.  But it took a false narrative about the economy and £350m for the NHS to get it over the line. Hard to see how you can claim that keeping NI is economically beneficial to England.
The NHS thing was a lie linked to an emotional hook.Sovereignty alone might only have got 20%. There was a big "f**k it" protest vote with no link to any policy programme. Brexit is really messy.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Applesisapples

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2017, 10:27:52 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 30, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
Brexit in the UK was won primarily on the demonising of foreign nationals. Ironically many of those who voted leave were of black or asian origin, more British than the Brits themselves.

Actually, the whole immigration issue was against those of east European origin and those of african and asian heritage are just as xenophobic as the standard english man or woman when it comes to the eastern Europeans.

Meanwhile the greatest number of immigrants to UK was from outside the EU and continues to be.  UK seems to have no control on the immigrants from non-EU countries.
Exactly

Owen Brannigan

It is amazing when you visit GB how many of the immigrants are from Somalia or are of that heritage.  I can understand sub continent immigrants where there is an established community from the 50s, 60s and 70s but how did so many from Somali enter GB.  Overall, there appears to be no real control over non EU immigration given the numbers involved and the ghettoisation of large parts of London and the other major cities in the midlands and the north.  Obviously, some will have used an EU route by obtaining credentials on the European mainland but most will have come through other methods accessible to Border control.  This was an issue missed or avoided by the Yes campaign during the referendum for whatever reason, probably to avoid claims of the race card. In NI, the Portuguese migrants who have become over 10% of the population of Dungannon are of African heritage who have travelled to Portugal their former colonists and obtained EU passports allowing them to travel wherever they want.

The only issue for the targeting of EU economic migrants by the average citizen in England and Wales over the much greater numbers of non-EU immigrants building in the ghettoised areas of cities was that the EU migrants travelled specifically for work.  They took jobs many that the English would not do and many of them took more than one job given the low pay available for them.  This made the EU migrant more visible and they did not congregate in their 'own' areas which are apart from the white population as the eastern Europeans generally are more racist than their English counterparts if that is not too great an insult on hard working people.  They lived among the poorest in society but stood out as they had jobs.  This made them very visible and a target.  It was easy for politicians to feed off the resentment towards the EU migrants.  The non-EU migrant have become less visible because of white flight that has abandoned large areas of cities to become solely the preserve on those of asian and african heritage.


armaghniac

NI economy to grow 1% this year and 0.9% next year, and that's before any Brexit disruption, which isn't very good when the population is growing by 0.5%. Incredibly, NI is growing more slowly than GB!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/northern-irelands-economy-to-grow-by-just-09-in-2018-study-finds-35895028.html

With the ROI growing at 4% this year and much the same next year people will begin to notice the gap, while of course the public finance gap is only increased by the DUP deal and NI being behind GB.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2017, 04:37:10 PM
NI economy to grow 1% this year and 0.9% next year, and that's before any Brexit disruption, which isn't very good when the population is growing by 0.5%. Incredibly, NI is growing more slowly than GB!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/northern-irelands-economy-to-grow-by-just-09-in-2018-study-finds-35895028.html

With the ROI growing at 4% this year and much the same next year people will begin to notice the gap, while of course the public finance gap is only increased by the DUP deal and NI being behind GB.
NI is stagnating. There is no growth driver. For years being part of the UK was advantageous. Not now
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Eamonnca1

Last time I looked into it, about half the people moving to the UK were from other EU countries and the other half was from Commonwealth and former empire territories.