The ulster rugby trial

[Taylor]

Every media report on this case that is preceded by a warning that some people may find the following upsetting I picture poor Syfeus in the back seat of his parents 7 seater with his eyes big as plates.

Your obsession with me amid a case about a horrible gang rape doesn't reflect well on you. Butchered by your own hand.

Careful Syf.

No one has been found guilty or innocent in most sane peoples minds or in the judicial system yet

[Orchard park]

does this make page 200 before the verdict

i have totally given up on speculation as when one looks as the disparity of tweets from those reporting on the case none of us have a clue what actually has been happening

[nrico2006]

What is Olding charged with?

[Hound]

does this make page 200 before the verdict

i have totally given up on speculation as when one looks as the disparity of tweets from those reporting on the case none of us have a clue what actually has been happening

Absolutely. While I have my views based on the limited information I have read, I will accept whatever the jury come up with as the correct verdict, as they are the only ones who have heard everything

[yellowcard]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case. 

[nrico2006]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen. 

[screenexile]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen.

I think it's fair to say she's suffered whatever way things might pan out from here on in!

[AQMP]

Trial is done for today after former Ulster player Declan Fitzpatrick appeared as a character witness for Jackson.  No prosecution questions for him.
Defence says it has one more character witness to call for Jackson. 

Back tomorrow morning and court will sit tomorrow afternoon and Saturday morning as well.

[Syferus]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen.

I think it's fair to say she's suffered whatever way things might pan out from here on in!

Careful now, women who are raped must be treated with at best mistrust with no regard for the emotional toll involved in bringing a rape to trial or the peanut gallery will get hot under the collar.

[Applesisapples]

Reasonable doubt, I can't get past. Then I ask myself why would she put herself through that, I just can't decide.

[nrico2006]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen.

I think it's fair to say she's suffered whatever way things might pan out from here on in!

But whether she has suffered the most is another thing. 

[AQMP]

Reasonable doubt, I can't get past. Then I ask myself why would she put herself through that, I just can't decide.

Yeah, she gives evidence for 6 or 7 days and has her knickers and bra paraded around the court whereas Olding is asked what he got in his A Levels and how many times he played for Ireland! 

But of course they couldn't find Olding's clothes to parade around the court

Seriously though, I've a grown up daughter (in her 20s) I'm not sure I'd want her to go through what the complainant has gone through no matter what happened to her

[trailer]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen.

I think it's fair to say she's suffered whatever way things might pan out from here on in!

Careful now, women who are raped must be treated with at best mistrust with no regard for the emotional toll involved in bringing a rape to trial or the peanut gallery will get hot under the collar.

How do you know she was raped?

[yellowcard]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen.

I think it's fair to say she's suffered whatever way things might pan out from here on in!

But whether she has suffered the most is another thing.

To make that leap you would have to believe that she herself is knowingly making a false allegation. From the evidence I have heard I definitely do not believe that this is the case, I think that she absolutely believes that she was gang raped here. Otherwise why would she put herself through this hell. That is completely distinct from saying that there is sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty.   

[screenexile]

I presume that the decision here is a black or white one ie. either guilty or not guilty, because all I can see here is a lot of grey areas and on that basis it is hard to make the case that they are absolutely guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But then we are only going on media reporting which can often give different impressions even on the same event from 2 different reporters. I think both parties genuinely believe that they have been wronged ( in terms of the allegations for the accused) and I have full sympathy for the woman because she is ultimately the one that has suffered the most. I do not envy the jurors in this case.

If she is infact the victim then of course she has suffered the most but that remains to be seen.

I think it's fair to say she's suffered whatever way things might pan out from here on in!

But whether she has suffered the most is another thing.

To make that leap you would have to believe that she herself is knowingly making a false allegation. From the evidence I have heard I definitely do not believe that this is the case, I think that she absolutely believes that she was gang raped here. Otherwise why would she put herself through this hell. That is completely distinct from saying that there is sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are guilty.

I don't think she made a false allegation.

I don't think she was comfortable with the situation but went along with it out of a supposed fear of these being rugby lads and that they would overpower her if she kicked off and said no. Then afterwards it felt to her like she was raped.

At the same time I also don't think she said no at any stage and the lads were clearly blocked and thought it was consensual at the time.

Nobody is a winner there but I don't think the lads had any reason to think that this wasn't consensual and on that basis they probably get off.

All the bluster and nonsense that happened after only reinforces to me they did not think they had done anything wrong even though in the claimant's eyes they had!