Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[thewobbler]

Call it the All Ireland Shield and move on.

—-

I'm coming around to the idea that there should be tiers. Except remove the "bottom 16" championship completely. If we have a strong league, then it becomes pointless. Like the LDV Vans cup or whatever it is called in England.

Instead, the top 16 teams each season - 4 Provincial champions (never runners-up), plus the 12 highest league finishers not including those 4 - enter a straight knockout AI competition.

This approach changes the emphasis for "weaker counties" away from teeing themselves up for annual slaughter in the championship, into scheduled targets and improvement over a couple of seasons, so that when they do make the last 16, they're more suited to it. It's a tad reminiscent of how the NFL playoffs work. You don't enter them by default; you earn the right, and once you're beaten, then you're done.

Reduces county running costs by half, as most counties would be done by the end of May.

Reduces the strain on club v county in the majority of counties each year.

Gives an increasingly meaningful national league programme an elevated respect almost right up there with the championship, and this would be reflected in attendances and coverage.

Maintains provincial championships and structures.

[Taylor]

Call it the All Ireland Shield and move on.

—-

I'm coming around to the idea that there should be tiers. Except remove the "bottom 16" championship completely. If we have a strong league, then it becomes pointless. Like the LDV Vans cup or whatever it is called in England.

Instead, the top 16 teams each season - 4 Provincial champions (never runners-up), plus the 12 highest league finishers not including those 4 - enter a straight knockout AI competition.

This approach changes the emphasis for "weaker counties" away from teeing themselves up for annual slaughter in the championship, into scheduled targets and improvement over a couple of seasons, so that when they do make the last 16, they're more suited to it. It's a tad reminiscent of how the NFL playoffs work. You don't enter them by default; you earn the right, and once you're beaten, then you're done.

Reduces county running costs by half, as most counties would be done by the end of May.

Reduces the strain on club v county in the majority of counties each year.

Gives an increasingly meaningful national league programme an elevated respect almost right up there with the championship, and this would be reflected in attendances and coverage.

Maintains provincial championships and structures.

I can see the merit in it wobbler but you are missing one important point.

The GAA hierarchy want  to maximise revenue - your proposal would mean this wouldnt happen

[thewobbler]

There are 112 (or so) games in the National League programme. A 25% uplift in public interest there would surely offset some/most/all of this?

The GAA shouldn't be about profit either, though that's a different kettle of fish.

[Taylor]

There are 112 (or so) games in the National League programme. A 25% uplift in public interest there would surely offset some/most/all of this?

The GAA shouldn't be about profit either, though that's a different kettle of fish.

Couldnt agree with you more - unfortunately its the only show in town at the moment.

Any changes wont be viewed on their merit - only how the rich get richer

[thewobbler]

So my back of a feg packet figures, if following that proposal from me above:

- We would lose 24 qualifier matches (let's say 240k tickets at 10k per match)
- We would lose 12 Super 8 matches (say 300k tickets at 25k per match)
- We would lose the league finals (say 60k tickets)
- So around 600k tickets gone.

But we would gain

- 8 x Last 16 games (say 160k tickets at 20k per match).
- 4 quarter finals (say 120k tickets at 30k per match).
- So around 280k new tickets.

That leaves a deficit of 320,000 tickets.

With 112 national league games, the average gate would need to go up about 2,850 per game.

Of course championship tickets are more expensive, but the last 16 and QF prices negate the Super 8 ticket prices. So it's league prices vs qualifier prices, which aren't a major step apart at present.

A general uptake of 2-3k per league match is really not an inconceivable barrier, if the league were to becomes the serious priority competition.

——

Of course my estimate on tickets per game above are subject to probing. But I expect that of all those, the average qualifier attendance estimate is pitched too high. Games involving any of the bottom 8-10 counties would struggle to generate 4,000 attendees.

I'd also expect that quarter finals would usually gain far more traction at the gate than any Super 8 match. Similarly, provincial championship matches would be better attended under this system. Knockout football has that effect.

[Owenmoresider]

Call it the All Ireland Shield and move on.

—-

I'm coming around to the idea that there should be tiers. Except remove the "bottom 16" championship completely. If we have a strong league, then it becomes pointless. Like the LDV Vans cup or whatever it is called in England.

Instead, the top 16 teams each season - 4 Provincial champions (never runners-up), plus the 12 highest league finishers not including those 4 - enter a straight knockout AI competition.

This approach changes the emphasis for "weaker counties" away from teeing themselves up for annual slaughter in the championship, into scheduled targets and improvement over a couple of seasons, so that when they do make the last 16, they're more suited to it. It's a tad reminiscent of how the NFL playoffs work. You don't enter them by default; you earn the right, and once you're beaten, then you're done.

Reduces county running costs by half, as most counties would be done by the end of May.

Reduces the strain on club v county in the majority of counties each year.

Gives an increasingly meaningful national league programme an elevated respect almost right up there with the championship, and this would be reflected in attendances and coverage.

Maintains provincial championships and structures.

I like this idea in general, with maybe some tweaks. Could live with it a bit more than being just cast off into a glorified B championship. In terms of the top 12 league teams I'd exclude teams relegated from D1 from inclusion in this category, but if they won their province (as Ros did in 2019) then they're back in contention. You could go something like:
Top 6 D1
Top 4 D2
D3 and D4 winners

And if teams in that 12 won their provinces then you would allocate the additional places to say, 5th in D2, D3 runners up, any from 3rd D3/D4 runners up/6th D2 etc. But relegation shouldn't be rewarded, it'd make staying in D1 all the more important.

Going on 2019 you'd have had Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin, Galway, Monaghan, Meath, Donegal, Fermanagh, Kildare, Laois and Derry qualifying through the league, Roscommon through the provinces, leaving three places, going to Armagh, Westmeath and one of Down or Leitrim or Clare.

You could even have a round robin for the 16 teams if it came to it, with the provincial champions seeded, and the top two in each group going to the QF's. Would make more sense then how the group stage is shoehorned in as it stands.

[Rossfan]

We have what we have for now no matter how many ideas ir systems us folk here come up with.
Let's wait till the famous Review Committee reports and see what their recommendations are.
As I said on another thread they're back to artificial Provinces again but are said to be also recommending a 2 County/2 Club weekends per month.

[t_mac]

We have what we have for now no matter how many ideas ir systems us folk here come up with.
Let's wait till the famous Review Committee reports and see what their recommendations are.
As I said on another thread they're back to artificial Provinces again but are said to be also recommending a 2 County/2 Club weekends per month.

A irrelevant mickey mouse competition, and an elite competition for the few, sure as long as Dublin keep wining who gives a shite.

[Rossfan]

Go off and lie in a dark room for a few hours
And take your Tier2phobia tablets.

[macdanger2]

It'll all end in tiers

*gets coat

[Rossfan]

 

[Blowitupref]

Pat Spillane, the two tier championship will not be good for football, his ten reasons why it won't work.



1. Weak get weaker

As has been demonstrated in hurling, the new competition won't improve a lot of the weaker counties. Essentially the tiered hurling championship has become a box-ticking exercise. I fear a similar fate for Tier 2 football.

2. Lack of game time

Some counties will continue to play only two championship games in the new look championship. How are they expected to improve?

3. Rich get richer

This vote was an exercise in elitism, which I'm afraid permeates throughout the GAA nowadays. The Liam MacCarthy Cup in hurling is now restricted to 12 teams and we have the Super 8s series in football.

The GAA is mirroring what's happening in wider Irish society, where the rich are becoming richer and the weaker are being virtually cut adrift.

4. Club/county balance

The new second tier is ignoring the biggest elephant in the GAA – the necessity of getting some kind of balance between the inter-county and club fixtures. I can't understand the haste in going ahead with the new series when the report of the Calendar Review Task Force is due to be published next month.

5. Decision making

Surely the decision should have been left to those most likely to directly impacted upon. Why would Dublin, Kerry or Kilkenny be unduly worried about a Tier 2 football championship? Significantly, half of the counties directly affected voted against the proposal.

6. TV exposure

Delegates were told that the final of the new championship is likely to be shown live on TV, thus guaranteeing it a high profile. Well I wouldn't hold my breath – that's a bit of like saying Brexit will work out grand.

7. All-Star tours

The other carrot dangled was the selection of a separate All-Star team and the possibility of a tour. Again I wouldn't be holding my breath.

8. Financing

On the tour theme, who is going to finance such a trip? Again the GAA has a habit of awarding only the elite when it comes to trips abroad.

Last year, for example, half of the participating counties in the Liam MacCarthy Cup got trips abroad. Galway and Kilkenny went to Australia while Limerick, Clare, Cork and Wexford played in Boston.

9. Disinterest

My hunch is that a sizeable chunk of the players who are eligible to play in the Tier 2 championship will opt out. As soon as their team is eliminated from the provincial series they will be more interested in hopping on a plane and heading for the US.

10. Sponsorship

The new competition will be heavily marketed and promoted by the GAA. This is another from the 'I wouldn't hold my breath' category. The GAA's PR department does not have a stellar record, and much will depend on whether the association can secure an a stand-alone sponsor.

[CountyColours]

Although I would be skeptical about the success of the proposed two tiers. I'm trying to look at the bigger picture, and I think it's most certainly a step in the right direction. Yes, the current format may (most likely) need to be tinkered with down the line-  but in terms of what is trying to be achieve through this - I can get on board:

(1) Tying the league to championship
(2) Giving the so called weaker counties a chance to compete
(3) Promising to provide the tier 2 competition with media coverage / all-star tour etc.

Let's give it a chance and see how it turns out. Let's see if the GAA keep their "promises". I think we can all agree we needed some sort of change as the championship is getting harder and harder to watch as time goes on save a small number of matches per year.

[Captain Obvious]

Although I would be skeptical about the success of the proposed two tiers. I'm trying to look at the bigger picture, and I think it's most certainly a step in the right direction. Yes, the current format may (most likely) need to be tinkered with down the line-  but in terms of what is trying to be achieve through this - I can get on board:

(1) Tying the league to championship
(2) Giving the so called weaker counties a chance to compete
(3) Promising to provide the tier 2 competition with media coverage / all-star tour etc.

Let's give it a chance and see how it turns out. Let's see if the GAA keep their "promises". I think we can all agree we needed some sort of change as the championship is getting harder and harder to watch as time goes on save a small number of matches per year.

Based on what evidence? And it was given a chance before, what we have now is a second chance for a competition that was scrapped because it wasn't successful.

[CountyColours]

Based on the what is going on at county level -  we need a change. The chances of a D1 team beating a D4 one is remote. Teams getting hammered out the gate year on year...I only have to look as far as my own county last year when we came up against two D1 teams.

You are 100% right, the Tommy Murphy was a shambles. But I'm sure the GAA are looking at and trying to correct the wrongs.  The key element is the PR / interest behind the competition, if they get that bit right then we are heading in the right direction imo. Time will tell but I am willing to give it a chance.