Neil Francis and gay sportspeople

[Hardy]

The homophobic card, is there a card more played in society at present! 

Ignorance is bliss. And you are pretty ignorant. May I point you towards the path of enlightenment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Yes - the things we don't know that we don't know.

[The Iceman]

As I get older I like people less and less. I enjoy my little corner of the world, my family, my circle of friends. I'd rather not have to deal with drama or bullshit caused by people outside of that - but that's life I think and in many ways true (even a little bit) for a lot of us?
but frig how the word "tolerance" has changed. I tolerate Gay people, much like I tolerate most people. I don't agree with them most of the time and that's ok - or it used to be.
I don't hate them and I don't particularly like them (that goes for Gays and most people) but I tolerate you's all in my old understanding of the word.
But tolerance has been redefined.
Tolerance now means acceptance and agreement and if you don't accept or agree then you hate and are intolerant. And if that's the case then the new PC world is intolerant of you and your beliefs. Confused? So am I.

Because I tolerate gay people doesn't mean I accept or agree with what they do in the bedroom. In turn that doesn't mean I'm homophobic as the word is understood today, nor am I a hater. But why don't you tolerate that? Why is that not good enough? Tolerance isn't about affirming gay beliefs as equally right and equally valid and if you're all about tolerance then why not tolerate my beliefs?

I wish all of these sports men and women good luck in their careers. I think they should be left alone to play the game they're paid (or not) to play and what they do at home in their bedrooms is their business. I don't want it flaunted or celebrated just as much as I don't want anyone's private life flaunted in public.

[J70]

I couldn't give a shite if you like or don't like gay people or other races or ethnicities or whichever in the confines of your head, as long as you don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever. That is tolerance.

However, if you're going to get involved in a discussion of these issues, then expect to be challenged to defend your position. You are not entitled to respect of your opinions. Respect and tolerance are different things.

[The Iceman]

I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?

I also didn't ask you to respect my opinions. My point from the outset was to question the motives for coming out and why it was even necessary. I was asking more than telling but the usual suspects jumped on it and turned it into something else.

I also don't have to accept or respect the tangents that the thread went off on and some of the crazy arguments on both sides.

I can and have always defended my position. My last post on it was that those who counter it have no tolerance for my beliefs or opinions, but demand "tolerance" from me and go even further and demand acceptance and agreement of their beliefs and opinions.....

[Cold tea]

I couldn't give a shite if you like or don't like gay people or other races or ethnicities or whichever in the confines of your head, as long as you don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever. That is tolerance.

However, if you're going to get involved in a discussion of these issues, then expect to be challenged to defend your position. You are not entitled to respect of your opinions. Respect and tolerance are different things.

Get a grip sometime discrimination is warranted and necessary. This homophobic card is pathetic, if two grown men want one another let them at it, I couldn't care less as a society we shouldn't allow them to adopt children though it's akin to child abuse.

[screenexile]

I couldn't give a shite if you like or don't like gay people or other races or ethnicities or whichever in the confines of your head, as long as you don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever. That is tolerance.

However, if you're going to get involved in a discussion of these issues, then expect to be challenged to defend your position. You are not entitled to respect of your opinions. Respect and tolerance are different things.

Get a grip sometime discrimination is warranted and necessary. This homophobic card is pathetic, if two grown men want one another let them at it, I couldn't care less as a society we shouldn't allow them to adopt children though it's akin to child abuse.

This part I don't understand. Child abuse?? Really??

Firstly do you understand the meaning of abuse?

Secondly how are 2 men less capable of rearing children in a loving way than anyone else who is raising a child?

Yes I understand that a mother is important for a child but there are many many children who grow up without one and do just fine and you have no evidence to suggest that not having a mother is some kind of abuse!!!

It's probably the most ridiculous/ignorant statement I've seen on here to be fair!

[easytiger95]

You have the right to practice your religious beliefs in whatever way they dictate,as long as those practices do not infringe the basic human rights of other members of society. So you can work in the local shop all day, thinking that you disapprove of the gay couple up the road as much as you want. However, the minute you try to implement your beliefs by refusing to serve them because of their lifestyle, you have violated the the social contact that binds us all as citizens in a modern democracy, and you lose my support immediately.

On the other hand, if you truly tolerated them (look up the definiton - to permit without repugnance was one good one) then you wouldn't be bothered either way, and you also wouldn't ask the following

I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?

So in a country that is still overwhelmingly Christian/Catholic, you're asking who will defend your Catholic/Christian view? Classic conservative three card trick.

[J70]

I couldn't give a shite if you like or don't like gay people or other races or ethnicities or whichever in the confines of your head, as long as you don't discriminate against them or oppress them or whatever. That is tolerance.

However, if you're going to get involved in a discussion of these issues, then expect to be challenged to defend your position. You are not entitled to respect of your opinions. Respect and tolerance are different things.

Get a grip sometime discrimination is warranted and necessary. This homophobic card is pathetic, if two grown men want one another let them at it, I couldn't care less as a society we shouldn't allow them to adopt children though it's akin to child abuse.

Yeah you've said that before about child abuse.

Are you going to make your case this time?

[J70]

I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?

I also didn't ask you to respect my opinions. My point from the outset was to question the motives for coming out and why it was even necessary. I was asking more than telling but the usual suspects jumped on it and turned it into something else.

I also don't have to accept or respect the tangents that the thread went off on and some of the crazy arguments on both sides.

I can and have always defended my position. My last post on it was that those who counter it have no tolerance for my beliefs or opinions, but demand "tolerance" from me and go even further and demand acceptance and agreement of their beliefs and opinions.....

I will stand up for your religious beliefs up until the point where they adversely impact on others. If your religion tells you to discriminate against gays, I cannot defend you putting those beliefs into practice. Same for teaching creationism or trying to get contraceptives banned or preventing girls from getting educated or refusing medical treatment for your child or donning a suicide vest etc. etc.

[heganboy]

we shouldn't allow them to adopt children though it's akin to child abuse.

Are you saying that your preference on what to do with your genitalia is the key factor is deciding whether you are fit to adopt / raise kids?

or are you saying that adopting kids is a form of child abuse?

your opinion is quite amazing to me, and quite entertaining too - please keep it up. If you could take a moment to give us a few lines that explain your views about hole banging I would love to read it as I'm having a crappy day and your posts have a tendency to make me laugh.

[The Iceman]

I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?

I also didn't ask you to respect my opinions. My point from the outset was to question the motives for coming out and why it was even necessary. I was asking more than telling but the usual suspects jumped on it and turned it into something else.

I also don't have to accept or respect the tangents that the thread went off on and some of the crazy arguments on both sides.

I can and have always defended my position. My last post on it was that those who counter it have no tolerance for my beliefs or opinions, but demand "tolerance" from me and go even further and demand acceptance and agreement of their beliefs and opinions.....

I will stand up for your religious beliefs up until the point where they adversely impact on others. If your religion tells you to discriminate against gays, I cannot defend you putting those beliefs into practice. Same for teaching creationism or trying to get contraceptives banned or preventing girls from getting educated or refusing medical treatment for your child or donning a suicide vest etc. etc.

Firstly the Catholic Church does not tell anyone to discriminant against Gay people. If you think they do then that's a grave misunderstanding and one I think the Church is attempting to reconcile (see Pope Francis).
This is definitely another thread but how does teaching Creationism in a Catholic school adversely impact others? Or lobbying against contraception and promoting sex only inside of sacramental marriage? Or campaigning to attend abortion and protect all life?
From the above it would seem that you are willing to let me have my opinions and beliefs and practice them as long as they don't counter with yours? but what if your's counter with mine? Or are you the only one who is right? Which goes back to my point about the tolerance of intolerance.....

[J70]

I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?

I also didn't ask you to respect my opinions. My point from the outset was to question the motives for coming out and why it was even necessary. I was asking more than telling but the usual suspects jumped on it and turned it into something else.

I also don't have to accept or respect the tangents that the thread went off on and some of the crazy arguments on both sides.

I can and have always defended my position. My last post on it was that those who counter it have no tolerance for my beliefs or opinions, but demand "tolerance" from me and go even further and demand acceptance and agreement of their beliefs and opinions.....

I will stand up for your religious beliefs up until the point where they adversely impact on others. If your religion tells you to discriminate against gays, I cannot defend you putting those beliefs into practice. Same for teaching creationism or trying to get contraceptives banned or preventing girls from getting educated or refusing medical treatment for your child or donning a suicide vest etc. etc.

Firstly the Catholic Church does not tell anyone to discriminant against Gay people. If you think they do then that's a grave misunderstanding and one I think the Church is attempting to reconcile (see Pope Francis).
This is definitely another thread but how does teaching Creationism in a Catholic school adversely impact others? Or lobbying against contraception and promoting sex only inside of sacramental marriage? Or campaigning to attend abortion and protect all life?
From the above it would seem that you are willing to let me have my opinions and beliefs and practice them as long as they don't counter with yours? but what if your's counter with mine? Or are you the only one who is right? Which goes back to my point about the tolerance of intolerance.....

Oh come on, I would have thought it was plainly obvious I was talking about legislation and wider society, not just the catholic church (I haven't seen many catholic suicide bombers nor heard of catholics refusing blood transfusions for kids). I went to catholic school - I was NOT taught creationism, especially not in science class. It's adverse impact is that it is not science - it equates science with superstition and throws logic, reason and evidence, the cornerstones of science our the window. Society is ignorant enough about science and critical thinking without encouraging the wider teaching of creationism. And preach all you want about contraception, but the moment you get it made unavailable to me through legislation, that's when you lose my support for your religious views. If you want to forgo rubbers, no one is holding a gun to your head, but stay the f**k out of my bedroom.

[The Iceman]

I have not oppressed or discriminated against anyone. Would you stand up for discrimination against me and my religious beliefs and the right to practice them?

I also didn't ask you to respect my opinions. My point from the outset was to question the motives for coming out and why it was even necessary. I was asking more than telling but the usual suspects jumped on it and turned it into something else.

I also don't have to accept or respect the tangents that the thread went off on and some of the crazy arguments on both sides.

I can and have always defended my position. My last post on it was that those who counter it have no tolerance for my beliefs or opinions, but demand "tolerance" from me and go even further and demand acceptance and agreement of their beliefs and opinions.....

I will stand up for your religious beliefs up until the point where they adversely impact on others. If your religion tells you to discriminate against gays, I cannot defend you putting those beliefs into practice. Same for teaching creationism or trying to get contraceptives banned or preventing girls from getting educated or refusing medical treatment for your child or donning a suicide vest etc. etc.

Firstly the Catholic Church does not tell anyone to discriminant against Gay people. If you think they do then that's a grave misunderstanding and one I think the Church is attempting to reconcile (see Pope Francis).
This is definitely another thread but how does teaching Creationism in a Catholic school adversely impact others? Or lobbying against contraception and promoting sex only inside of sacramental marriage? Or campaigning to attend abortion and protect all life?
From the above it would seem that you are willing to let me have my opinions and beliefs and practice them as long as they don't counter with yours? but what if your's counter with mine? Or are you the only one who is right? Which goes back to my point about the tolerance of intolerance.....

Oh come on, I would have thought it was plainly obvious I was talking about legislation and wider society, not just the catholic church (I haven't seen many catholic suicide bombers nor heard of catholics refusing blood transfusions for kids). I went to catholic school - I was NOT taught creationism, especially not in science class. It's adverse impact is that it is not science - it equates science with superstition and throws logic, reason and evidence, the cornerstones of science our the window. And preach all you want about contraception, but the moment you get it made unavailable to me through legislation, that's when you lose my support for your religious views. If you want to forgo rubbers, no one is holding a gun to your head, but stay the f**k out of my bedroom.

Again though this is all your personal preference and opinion. So mine are only ok while they work in agreement or accordance with yours but I don't have the same liberty? The tolerance of intolerance strikes again

[muppet]

"Many psychologists and psychiatrists have demonstrated that there is no relation between celibacy and pedophilia," the Italian cardinal said. "But many others have demonstrated, I have been told recently, that there is a relation between homosexuality and pedophilia. That is true. That is the problem."

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Holy See's secretary of state 2010

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-04-14-catholic-gay_N.htm

[easytiger95]

Basic misconception on what tolerance is - you do not believe in abortion, you are entitled to live your life that way, ask your family to do the same, try to influence your friends etc. What you are not allowed to do is limit anyone elses right to live to different values.

I grant you that abortion is more complex, given that the traditional religious belief is that the feotus is a viable life fro  conception and by limiting abortion you are upholding the basic right to life of that foetus.

But the last I heard, in the Republic abortion is not freely available, as it is the democratic will of the people to have limited access to it, and the people have been asked on numerous occasions. As for NI, if you disagree with the staus quo, you have the democratic right to work for change. That does not entitle you to block clinics, threaten medical staff or in the most extreme cases in America, kill doctors.

The attitude you display in your posts is one of persecution - which as i said above is a classic conservative trick - you are (I assume) a heterosexual Catholic, who is free to practice his religion, free to marry whatever woman you wish, free to adopt children if you wish. free to send them to a school with a religous ethos if you wish, free to hold hands on a night out with the person you love without wondering if someone is going to smash your head in because of it.

Perhaps when we've finished getting justice for people who truly need it in our society, we can look at the needs of people whose idea of discrimination is not being free to discriminate.