A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[LCohen]

I don't follow the logic.
It's as if Nationalists should pretend they don't want Irish unity in order to trick Unionists into it.
Sinn Fein's very being is founded on the removal of England from Ireland. Do you honestly believe that that will be completely overlooked by Unionists if Sinn Fein just keep their head down? Do you honestly believe that Sinn Fein standing behind that banner is an obstacle to Irish unity? If people are pissed off about a banner supporting Irish unity, those same people are hardly likely to back Irish unity themselves.

Surely the type of Ireland that is being created will influence whether people aspire to be in it?

Mary Lou's Ireland doesn't look that attractive

An Ireland with England out of it isn't attractive? I'm not sure what your version of Irish unity looks like but England being out of it would be a prerequisite for mine thank you very much.

For a start you do realise that removing the British say in NI would require Brish approval? Or have you bought into the SF fraud??

[Rossfan]

There is nobody, absolutely nobody who is under the illusion that Sinn Fein want anything other than an Ireland totally exclusive to England. That is all the banner said. It didn't say English people aren't allowed in Ireland. It didn't say Unionists will be treated poorly. It didn't say that anyone who identifies as British needs to leave.

Sinn Fein stood behind a banner that carries the message that underpins the entire party's fundamental objective. If the party must hush up their fundamental objective for fear that they may offend someone who misapplys it, then they don't have a fundamental objective.

"England" isn't in Ireland.
The British or UK Government has 6 Irish Counties under their Jurisdiction under the terms of the GFA.
That won't change till a majority of voters in the 6 Cos decide otherwise ( and us in thev26 after them)
So Marylou should have a banner saying "Border poll now".
Or "United Ireland now"
Nothing like an oul slogan when you have nothing to offer.

[LCohen]

There is nobody, absolutely nobody who is under the illusion that Sinn Fein want anything other than an Ireland totally exclusive to England. That is all the banner said. It didn't say English people aren't allowed in Ireland. It didn't say Unionists will be treated poorly. It didn't say that anyone who identifies as British needs to leave.

Sinn Fein stood behind a banner that carries the message that underpins the entire party's fundamental objective. If the party must hush up their fundamental objective for fear that they may offend someone who misapplys it, then they don't have a fundamental objective.

Please tell you have read the GFA??

Surely you know that that which you describe as SF's fundamental objective isn't actually available??

If SF secure and win a UI referendum in NI and then another in RoI then NI continues to exist, stormont continues to exist, Britain remains a co guarantor of GFA.

In principle NI could vote a further future date to leave UI and the GFA would continue to provide for that. Not saying that those provisions would be actually called upon

[armaghniac]

Please tell you have read the GFA??

Surely you know that that which you describe as SF's fundamental objective isn't actually available??

If SF secure and win a UI referendum in NI and then another in RoI then NI continues to exist, stormont continues to exist, Britain remains a co guarantor of GFA.

In principle NI could vote a further future date to leave UI and the GFA would continue to provide for that. Not saying that those provisions would be actually called upon

Where does it say that?

[LCohen]

Please tell you have read the GFA??

Surely you know that that which you describe as SF's fundamental objective isn't actually available??

If SF secure and win a UI referendum in NI and then another in RoI then NI continues to exist, stormont continues to exist, Britain remains a co guarantor of GFA.

In principle NI could vote a further future date to leave UI and the GFA would continue to provide for that. Not saying that those provisions would be actually called upon

Where does it say that?

You need to look at what it doesn't say e.g when does the GFA end? Look at when any international treaty comes to an end - only with the express agreement of both parties. This one is designed to last forever.

In its simplest form in a UI scenario the governments of GB and RoI exchange roles as responsibilities switch. Everything else stays the same unless a new treaty was backed by both governments and it was passed by a majority of both communities in NI. That is what we signed up to - not a staging post to a UI but Sunningdale for slow learners.

[johnnycool]

Mary Lou marching behind an 'England get out of Ireland' banner.  That's embarrassing.  All SF have to do is keep their mouths shut and let the DUP get the bigots prize, but they always manage something offensive.

The Shinners have played this entire brexit thing horribly from the start. Constantly bleating on about a border poll has resulted in the extreme unionists coming to the fore again and digging their heels in. Its quite conceivable that if the british leave the EU that scotland will leave the UK and NI would follow. Mary Lou doesn't seem to realise or care that even though she may get a majority in the North for a UI, if there is even a possible sniff of hassle for the south she won't get it here. People in the south are not going to suck up the initial financial hit and have the UDA planting bombs in Dublin. The best thing that SF could do is get the assembly open again, do their utmost to work with the unionists, remove as much as possible the hatred between the two and wait for the general population to get pissed off importing goods from, or going through customs checks in france, germany, spain etc and decide the benefits of the EU outweigh any of being in the UK.

If some wee UDA sc**bag is going to plant bombs round Dublin, Sinn Fein playing nice with the DUP isn't going to stop it.

It's funny that when the wee IRA scumbags stopped planting bombs around Belfast, London etc etc (for it was a lengthy list) the unionism starting playing nice

Tony Blair had to force Unionists to play nice, but that didn't last long and they've reverted to type.

I don't think you could reasonably argue that a majority of unionists don't buy into power Sharing

We've never had proper power sharing in Stormont to actually know.

Current "power sharing" or the pre 2016 version was anything but. It was an exercise in bolloxology and one upmanship between the two main parties. It was when the DUP's levels of pettiness (Líofa grant) and arrogance (RHI) went to a totally new level that McGuinness had to pull the plug on the sham.

[Sportacus]

Mary Lou marching behind an 'England get out of Ireland' banner.  That's embarrassing.  All SF have to do is keep their mouths shut and let the DUP get the bigots prize, but they always manage something offensive.

Away and boil your head. England/ Brits out of Ireland is the fundamental principal of SF what do you expect.

Oh dear god, read again what I said and see if you can work out this time what my simple point is.

[Harold Disgracey]

Vol Alan Partridge!
https://twitter.com/gibbogibby1/status/1107765353889910784?s=21

[johnnycool]

Vol Alan Partridge!
https://twitter.com/gibbogibby1/status/1107765353889910784?s=21

Not the first time Steve Coogan has played to role of an Irish Republican.

https://youtu.be/MR6jGJ1lq2U

Bloody hell, Stephen Nolan is going to be devoting another show on this after Michael Conlon entering the ring to the tune of Celtic Symphony..........

[armaghniac]

More Taigs
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-catholic-school-population-surges-to-record-high-38063956.html

there were 175,649 Catholic pupils in Northern Ireland's nursery, primary, secondary, grammar and special schools.
This accounts for almost 50.7% of all enrollments, with the amount of Catholics pupils at an all-time high.
In comparison, there were 114,314 Protestant pupils, 33% of the total, while 56,408 were designated as 'other'.

Now, of course, if you are over on Sluggerotoole some will claim that
- a lot of a Catholics are Poles etc
- a lot of Catholics don;t want a United Ireland
- all the others are unionists.

But since Brexit, the Polish people want a United Ireland too. The others may be mostly from a Protestant background but there are several % of greens in there too and some of the others are Orthodox Romanians or whatever and since Brexit these may well favour a UI also.

NI's days are numbered.

[smelmoth]

More Taigs
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-catholic-school-population-surges-to-record-high-38063956.html

there were 175,649 Catholic pupils in Northern Ireland's nursery, primary, secondary, grammar and special schools.
This accounts for almost 50.7% of all enrollments, with the amount of Catholics pupils at an all-time high.
In comparison, there were 114,314 Protestant pupils, 33% of the total, while 56,408 were designated as 'other'.

Now, of course, if you are over on Sluggerotoole some will claim that
- a lot of a Catholics are Poles etc
- a lot of Catholics don;t want a United Ireland
- all the others are unionists.

But since Brexit, the Polish people want a United Ireland too. The others may be mostly from a Protestant background but there are several % of greens in there too and some of the others are Orthodox Romanians or whatever and since Brexit these may well favour a UI also.

NI's days are numbered.

Going to pull you up on that last sentence. You might well be arguing that NI's days within UK are numbered but surely not arguing that NI 's days as a political entity are over

[trailer]

More Taigs
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-catholic-school-population-surges-to-record-high-38063956.html

there were 175,649 Catholic pupils in Northern Ireland's nursery, primary, secondary, grammar and special schools.
This accounts for almost 50.7% of all enrollments, with the amount of Catholics pupils at an all-time high.
In comparison, there were 114,314 Protestant pupils, 33% of the total, while 56,408 were designated as 'other'.

Now, of course, if you are over on Sluggerotoole some will claim that
- a lot of a Catholics are Poles etc
- a lot of Catholics don;t want a United Ireland
- all the others are unionists.

But since Brexit, the Polish people want a United Ireland too. The others may be mostly from a Protestant background but there are several % of greens in there too and some of the others are Orthodox Romanians or whatever and since Brexit these may well favour a UI also.

NI's days are numbered.

50% +1 is not going to work. Intelligent people know this. Those who don't are Ireland's version of Trump or UKIP supporters. They're not very bright and have no understanding of the wider consequences.

[armaghniac]

Going to pull you up on that last sentence. You might well be arguing that NI's days within UK are numbered but surely not arguing that NI 's days as a political entity are over

NI's purpose is to achieve a Protestant majority, if it does not do that what is the purpose of it?

[balladmaker]

I agree with Armaghniac, NI's days are numbered.  The Brexit shambles demonstrates clearly the futility of a border on this island.  It also demonstrates the complete lack of understanding and respect shown towards the people of the six counties by the Westminster establishment. 

When constitutional change happens, it often happens a lot faster than expected, and countries are taken off guard and unprepared.  Thus the reason the big conversation ref. a 'new' Ireland and island economy needs to be happening so no section of the community are left behind.  When it happens, the last thing we need is 30+ years of loyalist agitation and violence.

[michaelg]

Going to pull you up on that last sentence. You might well be arguing that NI's days within UK are numbered but surely not arguing that NI 's days as a political entity are over

NI's purpose is to achieve a Protestant majority, if it does not do that what is the purpose of it?

Is that a serious question?