Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball

[sid waddell]

Those advocating for a rule change on this issue are simply saying the big boys have taken our ball and they won't give it back. It's yapping at a professional level.

Now there are other issues and some people are getting confused between a good team keeping the ball off another team and Gaelic football as a spectacle in general. Venue's, home advantage etc are all things that can be sorted out relatively easily, but to want to change the entire fabric of the game because one team is better than another is complete and utter madness. And some of the "proposals" coming from people on this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Shot clocks, limiting hand passes, not crossing back over half way and a combination of some or all of those. Idea's written on the bag of a fag packet and frankly that's where they should remain.

McGuinness and Harte have ruined the game, so be it, there are other sports to watch and club football is for the most part ok despite attempts by some 'expert' coaches to ape that rubbish.

Yes it's all McGuinness and Harte's fault. Even though your issue is with Dublin keeping the ball.

yeah was awful to see Dubs go to that level as well as they usually hold true to the values of the game.

What are the "values of the game"?

Where are these "values of the game" written down?

Any chance of a link to them?

values aren't written... is like fair play etc. Gaelic football users to be about attacking, flair, having a go... now it's a huge game of chess and you're welcome to it

We know what fair play is. What fair play is and what it isn't is very much written down.

If so called "values" aren't written down, they don't exist.

They aren't written down, so they don't exist.

There is no such a thing as "the values of the game".

If Gaelic football used to be about "attacking, flair, having a go", etc., why were the average scores 20 years ago so much lower than they are now?

[yellowcard]

Those who promote the virtues of modern gaelic football are mostly those who have some skin in the game.

Namely coaches who are spreading their wisdom and implementing their tactical masterplan's. It is an ego trip for a lot of these coaches who try to complicate the game as it makes them appear smarter than the casual fan.

The fitness levels and mobility of the current day player is unprecedented but as a spectator sport it has worsened considerably since Jim McGuinness began a downward spiral in 2011.     

[trailer]

Those advocating for a rule change on this issue are simply saying the big boys have taken our ball and they won't give it back. It's yapping at a professional level.

Now there are other issues and some people are getting confused between a good team keeping the ball off another team and Gaelic football as a spectacle in general. Venue's, home advantage etc are all things that can be sorted out relatively easily, but to want to change the entire fabric of the game because one team is better than another is complete and utter madness. And some of the "proposals" coming from people on this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Shot clocks, limiting hand passes, not crossing back over half way and a combination of some or all of those. Idea's written on the bag of a fag packet and frankly that's where they should remain.

McGuinness and Harte have ruined the game, so be it, there are other sports to watch and club football is for the most part ok despite attempts by some 'expert' coaches to ape that rubbish.

Yes it's all McGuinness and Harte's fault. Even though your issue is with Dublin keeping the ball.

yeah was awful to see Dubs go to that level as well as they usually hold true to the values of the game.

What are the "values of the game"?

Where are these "values of the game" written down?

Any chance of a link to them?

values aren't written... is like fair play etc. Gaelic football users to be about attacking, flair, having a go... now it's a huge game of chess and you're welcome to it

We know what fair play is. What fair play is and what it isn't is very much written down.

If so called "values" aren't written down, they don't exist.

They aren't written down, so they don't exist.

There is no such a thing as "the values of the game".

If Gaelic football used to be about "attacking, flair, having a go", etc., why were the average scores 20 years ago so much lower than they are now?

The game was f**king horrible in the 70's and 80's. The sooner we get back to this the better, if just so we can close this thread.

[longballin]

Those advocating for a rule change on this issue are simply saying the big boys have taken our ball and they won't give it back. It's yapping at a professional level.

Now there are other issues and some people are getting confused between a good team keeping the ball off another team and Gaelic football as a spectacle in general. Venue's, home advantage etc are all things that can be sorted out relatively easily, but to want to change the entire fabric of the game because one team is better than another is complete and utter madness. And some of the "proposals" coming from people on this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Shot clocks, limiting hand passes, not crossing back over half way and a combination of some or all of those. Idea's written on the bag of a fag packet and frankly that's where they should remain.

McGuinness and Harte have ruined the game, so be it, there are other sports to watch and club football is for the most part ok despite attempts by some 'expert' coaches to ape that rubbish.

Yes it's all McGuinness and Harte's fault. Even though your issue is with Dublin keeping the ball.

yeah was awful to see Dubs go to that level as well as they usually hold true to the values of the game.

What are the "values of the game"?

Where are these "values of the game" written down?

Any chance of a link to them?

values aren't written... is like fair play etc. Gaelic football users to be about attacking, flair, having a go... now it's a huge game of chess and you're welcome to it

We know what fair play is. What fair play is and what it isn't is very much written down.

If so called "values" aren't written down, they don't exist.

They aren't written down, so they don't exist.

There is no such a thing as "the values of the game".

If Gaelic football used to be about "attacking, flair, having a go", etc., why were the average scores 20 years ago so much lower than they are now?

much of that to do with how unequal teams are. it was never a perfect world but I find county football for the most part unwatchable now. is very very occasional entertaining game but they are very few and far between. Probably accounts for falling numbers at games.

[longballin]

Those advocating for a rule change on this issue are simply saying the big boys have taken our ball and they won't give it back. It's yapping at a professional level.

Now there are other issues and some people are getting confused between a good team keeping the ball off another team and Gaelic football as a spectacle in general. Venue's, home advantage etc are all things that can be sorted out relatively easily, but to want to change the entire fabric of the game because one team is better than another is complete and utter madness. And some of the "proposals" coming from people on this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Shot clocks, limiting hand passes, not crossing back over half way and a combination of some or all of those. Idea's written on the bag of a fag packet and frankly that's where they should remain.

McGuinness and Harte have ruined the game, so be it, there are other sports to watch and club football is for the most part ok despite attempts by some 'expert' coaches to ape that rubbish.

Yes it's all McGuinness and Harte's fault. Even though your issue is with Dublin keeping the ball.

yeah was awful to see Dubs go to that level as well as they usually hold true to the values of the game.

What are the "values of the game"?

Where are these "values of the game" written down?

Any chance of a link to them?

values aren't written... is like fair play etc. Gaelic football users to be about attacking, flair, having a go... now it's a huge game of chess and you're welcome to it

We know what fair play is. What fair play is and what it isn't is very much written down.

If so called "values" aren't written down, they don't exist.

They aren't written down, so they don't exist.

There is no such a thing as "the values of the game".

If Gaelic football used to be about "attacking, flair, having a go", etc., why were the average scores 20 years ago so much lower than they are now?

The game was f**king horrible in the 70's and 80's. The sooner we get back to this the better, if just so we can close this thread.

who mentioned the 70s and 80s? in the noughties there were great games involving Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo, Kerry even Sligio... it's brutal now

[sid waddell]

Those advocating for a rule change on this issue are simply saying the big boys have taken our ball and they won't give it back. It's yapping at a professional level.

Now there are other issues and some people are getting confused between a good team keeping the ball off another team and Gaelic football as a spectacle in general. Venue's, home advantage etc are all things that can be sorted out relatively easily, but to want to change the entire fabric of the game because one team is better than another is complete and utter madness. And some of the "proposals" coming from people on this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Shot clocks, limiting hand passes, not crossing back over half way and a combination of some or all of those. Idea's written on the bag of a fag packet and frankly that's where they should remain.

McGuinness and Harte have ruined the game, so be it, there are other sports to watch and club football is for the most part ok despite attempts by some 'expert' coaches to ape that rubbish.

Yes it's all McGuinness and Harte's fault. Even though your issue is with Dublin keeping the ball.

yeah was awful to see Dubs go to that level as well as they usually hold true to the values of the game.

What are the "values of the game"?

Where are these "values of the game" written down?

Any chance of a link to them?

values aren't written... is like fair play etc. Gaelic football users to be about attacking, flair, having a go... now it's a huge game of chess and you're welcome to it

We know what fair play is. What fair play is and what it isn't is very much written down.

If so called "values" aren't written down, they don't exist.

They aren't written down, so they don't exist.

There is no such a thing as "the values of the game".

If Gaelic football used to be about "attacking, flair, having a go", etc., why were the average scores 20 years ago so much lower than they are now?

much of that to do with how unequal teams are. it was never a perfect world but I find county football for the most part unwatchable now. is very very occasional entertaining game but they are very few and far between. Probably accounts for falling numbers at games.

Is it?

Roscommon v Armagh, for instance, was a brilliantly contested game all through and could have gone either way.

It finished 2-22 to 1-19.

Kildare v Mayo was similar, it finished 0-21 to 0-19.

Monaghan v Tyrone fnished 1-18 to 1-16.

Did both teams in all these games "have a go"?

Scores like that are far from uncommon nowadays, they're more the norm, but were unheard of 20 years ago - they just didn't happen.

Club football is regularly, and bizarrely said on this forum to be "better to watch" than county football.

Yet televised club football games are, more often that not, dreadful.

Has anybody watched any of the last four All-Ireland club finals? Each and every one was dreadful.

Did anybody see last year's Dublin SFC final?

Inter-county football is miles better, and it's miles better to watch too.

[thewobbler]

Did any of fellas play football before kicking freed from the hand came in?

The game was similarly bucked at that time.

That was a rule change that was easy to ref, easy to implement and didn't disrupt the flow of the game. It wasn't designed to counteract any tactical innovation bought to the game and just made common sense. However, it did also have the side effect of nearly killing the art of free kicking off the ground. All rules have side effects and the idea of bringing in a rule or rules because some team have used a particular tactic just doesn't sit well with me. Count down clocks for tackling, no back passes, no going back into your own half etc are all well intended but are all riddled with unintended consequences.

Lol. Seriously?

The consequence of kicking frees from hand is the game we have now. It allowed the team who were fouled to easily retain possession and therefore was the pivotal reason for the change from a territorial game a la hurling into the possession game we now know.

It took a few years to bed in, a few more years to become a defined tactic, and a few more years again to be the ultimate game killer... aided in no small way by the allowance for quick restarts. Which ironically were meant to speed the game up.


In short, football we now know is directly related to what happened in 1990. What Dublin did at the weekend would never have been possible with frees from the ground.

——

By the way, I've no interest in going back in time. I prefer possession over territory and would never advocate a reversal.

Why I brought up 1990 is simple.

The game was a f**king mess. It was routinely owned by one county, and when they met anyone apart from a couple of teams, they slapped them into the ground. Attendances were appalling and interest was low. It was a non spectacle.

A rule change led to 20 years of unpredictable championships and unbelievable crowds.

That rule change created the game half of this thread profess to adore unflinchingly. Well you wouldn't f**king have it lads if people who give a f**k hadn't changed the rules.

[sid waddell]

Did any of fellas play football before kicking freed from the hand came in?

The game was similarly bucked at that time.

That was a rule change that was easy to ref, easy to implement and didn't disrupt the flow of the game. It wasn't designed to counteract any tactical innovation bought to the game and just made common sense. However, it did also have the side effect of nearly killing the art of free kicking off the ground. All rules have side effects and the idea of bringing in a rule or rules because some team have used a particular tactic just doesn't sit well with me. Count down clocks for tackling, no back passes, no going back into your own half etc are all well intended but are all riddled with unintended consequences.

Lol. Seriously?

The consequence of kicking frees from hand is the game we have now. It allowed the team who were fouled to easily retain possession and therefore was the pivotal reason for the change from a territorial game a la hurling into the possession game we now know.

How do you explain hurling's evolution into a possession game, given that it didn't introduce taking frees from the hand?

[thewobbler]

Hurling is no more a possession based game than a penalty shoot out in soccer.

[BennyHarp]

Did any of fellas play football before kicking freed from the hand came in?

The game was similarly bucked at that time.

That was a rule change that was easy to ref, easy to implement and didn't disrupt the flow of the game. It wasn't designed to counteract any tactical innovation bought to the game and just made common sense. However, it did also have the side effect of nearly killing the art of free kicking off the ground. All rules have side effects and the idea of bringing in a rule or rules because some team have used a particular tactic just doesn't sit well with me. Count down clocks for tackling, no back passes, no going back into your own half etc are all well intended but are all riddled with unintended consequences.

Lol. Seriously?

The consequence of kicking frees from hand is the game we have now. It allowed the team who were fouled to easily retain possession and therefore was the pivotal reason for the change from a territorial game a la hurling into the possession game we now know.

It took a few years to bed in, a few more years to become a defined tactic, and a few more years again to be the ultimate game killer... aided in no small way by the allowance for quick restarts. Which ironically were meant to speed the game up.


In short, football we now know is directly related to what happened in 1990. What Dublin did at the weekend would never have been possible with frees from the ground.

——

By the way, I've no interest in going back in time. I prefer possession over territory and would never advocate a reversal.

Why I brought up 1990 is simple.

The game was a f**king mess. It was routinely owned by one county, and when they met anyone apart from a couple of teams, they slapped them into the ground. Attendances were appalling and interest was low. It was a non spectacle.

A rule change led to 20 years of unpredictable championships and unbelievable crowds.

That rule change created the game half of this thread profess to adore unflinchingly. Well you wouldn't f**king have it lads if people who give a f**k hadn't changed the rules.

If we are lolling as replies then lol. If you are pointing the finger at the free from the hand as the reason why the game is as we know it then at least have the courage of your convictions to claim you want it restored from the ground and see how many lols you get. Instead you reigned back because you know a return to the free kick from the ground is mountain man stuff. The problem with the advocates for rule changes is that they will never be happy and they don't even know what they are looking for. Its like the Brexiteers - they know they aren't happy with what they have and they want to change it but they have no clue what they actually do want and as a result they have no clear plan to get there. What is this perfect game you seek anyway? What does it look like? How do we ensure it happens in every county match?

[sid waddell]

Hurling is no more a possession based game than a penalty shoot out in soccer.

Do try and bother to at least have a look in at even one hurling match if you're going to comment on it, because you clearly know next to nothing about the game.

[longballin]

Hurling is no more a possession based game than a penalty shoot out in soccer.

Do try and bother to at least have a look in at even one hurling match if you're going to comment on it, because you clearly know next to nothing about the game.

only comparison hurling and football is they're played on the same field. Hurling is gold

[thewobbler]

Yes, kicks from the ground really prevent teams retaining possession which is why you never see goalkeepers take short kick outs to men who have made space for themselves.

Seriously, catch a grip of yourself here. There is no need to argue every last f**king point like a drunk **** at a bar stirring for a fight.

A goalkeeper is a specialist ball striker who is very rarely fouled and generally all 14 options are ahead of him

If Aidan O'Shea gets pulled to the ground, he can quickly get up and boot the ball 30 yards over the heads of 5 players for to where Keegan is in space on the other flank.

Roll back 30 years and Jack O'Shea gets pulled down. He spied Spillane on the other flank. Does he put the ball down and try the same approach off the ground? Does he f**k. Of course Spillane can come short and take the pass, but it's so much easier for Kieran Duff to cut off angles for such a kick as O'Shea's distance from the ball and body shape determine where the ball is going.

Stop being an argumentative **** for the sake of it.

[trailer]

Did any of fellas play football before kicking freed from the hand came in?

The game was similarly bucked at that time.

That was a rule change that was easy to ref, easy to implement and didn't disrupt the flow of the game. It wasn't designed to counteract any tactical innovation bought to the game and just made common sense. However, it did also have the side effect of nearly killing the art of free kicking off the ground. All rules have side effects and the idea of bringing in a rule or rules because some team have used a particular tactic just doesn't sit well with me. Count down clocks for tackling, no back passes, no going back into your own half etc are all well intended but are all riddled with unintended consequences.

Lol. Seriously?

The consequence of kicking frees from hand is the game we have now. It allowed the team who were fouled to easily retain possession and therefore was the pivotal reason for the change from a territorial game a la hurling into the possession game we now know.

It took a few years to bed in, a few more years to become a defined tactic, and a few more years again to be the ultimate game killer... aided in no small way by the allowance for quick restarts. Which ironically were meant to speed the game up.


In short, football we now know is directly related to what happened in 1990. What Dublin did at the weekend would never have been possible with frees from the ground.

——

By the way, I've no interest in going back in time. I prefer possession over territory and would never advocate a reversal.

Why I brought up 1990 is simple.

The game was a f**king mess. It was routinely owned by one county, and when they met anyone apart from a couple of teams, they slapped them into the ground. Attendances were appalling and interest was low. It was a non spectacle.

A rule change led to 20 years of unpredictable championships and unbelievable crowds.

That rule change created the game half of this thread profess to adore unflinchingly. Well you wouldn't f**king have it lads if people who give a f**k hadn't changed the rules.

So if you take a free from the ground it is impossible to kick it to one of your team mates but out of your hand it isn't? Is that what you're saying?

[thewobbler]

Did any of fellas play football before kicking freed from the hand came in?

The game was similarly bucked at that time.

That was a rule change that was easy to ref, easy to implement and didn't disrupt the flow of the game. It wasn't designed to counteract any tactical innovation bought to the game and just made common sense. However, it did also have the side effect of nearly killing the art of free kicking off the ground. All rules have side effects and the idea of bringing in a rule or rules because some team have used a particular tactic just doesn't sit well with me. Count down clocks for tackling, no back passes, no going back into your own half etc are all well intended but are all riddled with unintended consequences.

Lol. Seriously?

The consequence of kicking frees from hand is the game we have now. It allowed the team who were fouled to easily retain possession and therefore was the pivotal reason for the change from a territorial game a la hurling into the possession game we now know.

It took a few years to bed in, a few more years to become a defined tactic, and a few more years again to be the ultimate game killer... aided in no small way by the allowance for quick restarts. Which ironically were meant to speed the game up.


In short, football we now know is directly related to what happened in 1990. What Dublin did at the weekend would never have been possible with frees from the ground.

——

By the way, I've no interest in going back in time. I prefer possession over territory and would never advocate a reversal.

Why I brought up 1990 is simple.

The game was a f**king mess. It was routinely owned by one county, and when they met anyone apart from a couple of teams, they slapped them into the ground. Attendances were appalling and interest was low. It was a non spectacle.

A rule change led to 20 years of unpredictable championships and unbelievable crowds.

That rule change created the game half of this thread profess to adore unflinchingly. Well you wouldn't f**king have it lads if people who give a f**k hadn't changed the rules.

So if you take a free from the ground it is impossible to kick it to one of your team mates but out of your hand it isn't? Is that what you're saying?

Are you 3 years old?

Show me where "impossible" comes into this. The key to possession football is in reducing the chance of dispossession.

You're a f**king childish ****