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[For anyone who believes an effective upper house to scrutinise the doings of the Dáil is a good idea if properly implemented, we're in a better place now than we were before this referendum was called.]

I don't know. My point, at the risk of boring you with repetition, is that it's more likely than it would be if there were no Seanad and that at least Seanad reform is now in the political arena. It wasn't before. For anyone who believes an effective upper house to scrutinise the doings of the Dáil is a good idea if properly implemented, we're in a better place now than we were before this referendum was called.

+1

I just read on my break that the Donegal clubs voted 20 to 6 in favour of McGuinness suggestion to postpone the senior and intermediate club championships until Donegal go out of championship. That's fair enough so that they had a vote on it.

Are there only 26 clubs in Donegal?

Some poetry for you Itchy....

The Unknown by Donald Rumsfeld

As we know, There are known knowns
There are things we know we know.
We also know There are known unknowns.
That is to say We know there are some things We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know We don't know.

Itchy reminds me of Jedward's X factor audition.

Not very good and incredibly annoying
but something intriguing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwW_DYmxEw


He wants to  understand the Middle East
He definitely has the potential

Perhaps you could help him understand, then. He has asked a number of questions. That's usually how people arrive at an understanding. Here are just two from his selection:

- How should the international community act on Syria in the short term (I.e now) to stop people being gassed to death or should they not act at all?
- Would you support a unilateral intervention on behalf of Palestine by a western power?

These seem reasonable to me in the context that Assad is murdering his people, the opposition is an unholy alliance of all types from the moderate to the lunatics and the UN is unable to act because of Russia's veto. I haven't come to an opinion myself. I'd be interested in your opinion as someone who has spent time in the Middle east and probably has a better understanding of it than myself (or Itchy).

The international community firstly has to let the UN inspectors carry out their work. The UN is the only body with the right to actually intervene but the full facts need to be determined first. People will die in the meantime unfortunately but that is a sad fact of this mess. Is the option of a ground force of UN peacekeepers to limit civilian casualties an option? Is that viewed as intervention and can it be vetoed by the Power 5?
Syria (and most of the Middle East) is an outrageous mess and is the worst humanitarian crisis of this century so far but as far as I am concerned and the past century proves my point that any western military intervention will just make the scenario a whole lot worse. Western intervention in this part of the world has caused alot of the instability already and if Obama, Cameron or Hollande think they can make matters better by bombing the shit out of the place then they are dreaming.
I'm of the opinion that in the long run the Syrian people need to determine the path to go down. There are very few cases in history where outside military intervention has improved the internal situation in the long term.

Herrera, Baines and Fellaini all looking likely at this stage. Would not be so bad..

It would be brilliant!!! Mediocrity here we come . . .

Do you have any idea about Herrera? He is far from mediocre. The other 2 don't set the world alight but will improve on what Utd have.

Baines doesn't set the world alight? He's been the best left full in Britain for 3 years easy. United would be lucky to have him. Thankfully he saw sense.
Have to laugh at some supposed die-hard Reds throwing abuse at their manager already. Ferguson would never have got the time he got if the support had been like this current bunch. Faithful supporters my hole.

In fairness Moyes is poor replacement for Ferguson and abuse should be thrown at the owners for appointing him.

Does Moyes not deserve at least 2 seasons to get things right or do you want to get rid of him after 3 games? Do you write for The Sun? He is the manager and he knows more about the game than you, me or any other fan and he deserves a bit of support from the fans of a club that had had to wait four long years for their greatest ever manager to turn things around.

Herrera, Baines and Fellaini all looking likely at this stage. Would not be so bad..

It would be brilliant!!! Mediocrity here we come . . .

Do you have any idea about Herrera? He is far from mediocre. The other 2 don't set the world alight but will improve on what Utd have.

Baines doesn't set the world alight? He's been the best left full in Britain for 3 years easy. United would be lucky to have him. Thankfully he saw sense.
Have to laugh at some supposed die-hard Reds throwing abuse at their manager already. Ferguson would never have got the time he got if the support had been like this current bunch. Faithful supporters my hole.

RIP Seamus

I watched the full speech again today on youtube.

Still puts shivers down my spine.

+1

Gene Kerrigan covers this case in his book Hard Cases. A complete cover up happened including the theft of files from the office of the DPP, allegedly by a major Dublin criminal. These files were supposed to have included letters from Judge Frank Roe explaining his decision to the DPP. This file was one of the matters with which Veronica Guerin was concerned in her investigation of major criminals before she was shot dead in June 1996.

We have to hold on to Baines at all cost. We need another good centre-half and maybe somebody like Mc Carthy. On the plus side Barkley is starting to show his undoubted potential.

Can anyone give me a good reason not to back ramor to beat mullahoran this weekend @1/1. seems like a big price to me.

They are playing the reigning League and Championship holders :-)
Where did ya get those odds?

[The Civil War ended ninety years ago.]

I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.

It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.

I said a lot more than that and you know it damn well.
Trying to have a sensible discussion with you is like trying to play handball against a hay stack; I can try all I like but I'm going to have sweet fa success no matter how long I stay at it.
You're comparing events of the recent past with ones that happened 90 years ago.
Why would I want to walk down the Sandy Row for any reason? If you stick your paw in a hornet's nest, you know you'll get stung. Why would I or you for that matter want deliberately provoke anyone on the "other" side when the violence only stopped less than 20 years ago?
What do you think the levels of hatred were like 90 years ago when it still lingers on to this day?
Try comparing like with like for a change.
We had hundreds of killings too in case you didn't know. Not near as many as you had but the time frame involved was much shorter.
The levels of ferocity were even greater than you could imagine. How many deaths does it take to make your sense of bitterness greater than ours?
In case you didn't notice I as referring to the levels of bitterness and hate and not attempting to go by body counts.
How many times in the north throughout the 40 years or so of strife, did a father coldly shoot his own son or a son murder his father?  We had dozens of such cases and if you add in brother v brother and uncle v nephew and the likes, you'd go well over the two hundred mark. (I know because I checked and even at that there were many others that I didn't find out about.)
Ever hear of Ballyseedy and what happened there?
In case you haven't, here's a potted version.
Govt. forces took 9 republican prisoners from their place of detention and forced them to start removing a road block, knowing damn well that the roadblock was boobytrapped. 8 of the 9 were killed in the resulting explosion.
Can't think of a single where the security forces ever did anything like that up your way, can you?
I think you just count the capitals and full stops in my posts and then you're off once again on your hobby horse.

BTW, you haven't come back to me yet about Wee Marty's attempts to get elected last year? We're not talking of events around 90 years ago.
I'm a patient man, if you haven't noticed that already.
Take your time by all means but in the meantime, I won't go any further with this "we deserve more sympathy than youse" sort of crap.

Lar do ya mind me asking where you got this sort of info?

Sorry Bo,, I didn't spot this until now.
Are you referring to all the shite historical research I'm presenting here or to a specific portion?

No hassle Lar. Any specific information or personal accounts from the Civil War would be helpful? I'm aware of the Bureau of Military records but not sure if there is much on the Civil War.

Alot of club championship games on this weekend. Any stand out bets from around the country?

[The Civil War ended ninety years ago.]

I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.

It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.

I said a lot more than that and you know it damn well.
Trying to have a sensible discussion with you is like trying to play handball against a hay stack; I can try all I like but I'm going to have sweet fa success no matter how long I stay at it.
You're comparing events of the recent past with ones that happened 90 years ago.
Why would I want to walk down the Sandy Row for any reason? If you stick your paw in a hornet's nest, you know you'll get stung. Why would I or you for that matter want deliberately provoke anyone on the "other" side when the violence only stopped less than 20 years ago?
What do you think the levels of hatred were like 90 years ago when it still lingers on to this day?
Try comparing like with like for a change.
We had hundreds of killings too in case you didn't know. Not near as many as you had but the time frame involved was much shorter.
The levels of ferocity were even greater than you could imagine. How many deaths does it take to make your sense of bitterness greater than ours?
In case you didn't notice I as referring to the levels of bitterness and hate and not attempting to go by body counts.
How many times in the north throughout the 40 years or so of strife, did a father coldly shoot his own son or a son murder his father?  We had dozens of such cases and if you add in brother v brother and uncle v nephew and the likes, you'd go well over the two hundred mark. (I know because I checked and even at that there were many others that I didn't find out about.)
Ever hear of Ballyseedy and what happened there?
In case you haven't, here's a potted version.
Govt. forces took 9 republican prisoners from their place of detention and forced them to start removing a road block, knowing damn well that the roadblock was boobytrapped. 8 of the 9 were killed in the resulting explosion.
Can't think of a single where the security forces ever did anything like that up your way, can you?
I think you just count the capitals and full stops in my posts and then you're off once again on your hobby horse.

BTW, you haven't come back to me yet about Wee Marty's attempts to get elected last year? We're not talking of events around 90 years ago.
I'm a patient man, if you haven't noticed that already.
Take your time by all means but in the meantime, I won't go any further with this "we deserve more sympathy than youse" sort of crap.

Lar do ya mind me asking where you got this sort of info?

For me if guilty she deserves all she gets,too many young lives ruined by people like this.

What if she was carrying the drugs for a separatist or political movement or if she was carrying a bomb? Would she deserve all she gets then?

Goals win games. KBP suits this Ramor team. They use the wings very well and have serious pace throughout the team. Some of Drumgoon's kickouts didn't help the Goonies cause as there seemed to be a lack of plan/communication there but overall Ramor looked a far more dangerous outfit. Jack Brady was involved in most of their good play but he was well backed up by the familiar names such as Anton, Cole, Mc Enroe, Cadden, Fitzsimons, Barkey, Connolly etc. Daragh Sheridan, a name I'm not familiar with had a fine game at wing back also. A much tougher test awaits Ramor in the next round.
Drumgoon play Lacken now I believe? A winnable game for either team.