Greatest Provincial Rivalry

[Tatler Jack]

See reply to Spectator TJ - not sure why modesty or lack of is being called into question - simply dealing in facts, I know that these facts are hard to stomach for you guys but do try to keep a level head and not resort to cheap shots, you seem like an intelligent enough kid

Thanks for the compliment Stephenite - nice to be still called a kid even if it is 45 years this year since I attended ny first championship game.

I have no wish to rehash this debate Stepheniite as I have more to do - but please drop the "lets be reasonable Im right" approach. This debate has two sides to it and the Ros people also deal in facts. And if you do decide to argue forcibly and robustly (which I enjoy) then expect some come back. I did not intend any cheap shot - just a bit of humour kiddo. You are a good man for giving stick - sometimes you have to take it as well.

Now as I was saying the facts of the matter with regard to Balllagh are.....etc...etc 

[stephenite]

the Connacht Council for a start would never allow it

You'd be surprised what gets allowed. How's Tom Parsons shaping up?

Very well apparently - Charlestown I thought but I'm guessing from your comments he's from the far side of the border? Who did he play with on the way up?

[spectator]

I would nt have a problem with a Ballagh lad choosing to play for Ros if that was what he wanted to do. I only want lads playing that really want to play for Mayo. If Andy Moran preferred to play with Ros away with him, or Pierce Hanley too if he were still around and preferred to play for Ros - great and all though their losses would  be to us. Coming from where I do in the county Ballagh is 1/3 way to Dublin so I cannot say what makes the place tick - its a midland town as far as I m concerned. But talking to some of their fans at club matches it is clear they[ at least the ones I have talked to] regard themselves as part of the Mayo set-up, would not entertain suggestions of playing in the Ros championship and seem bemused if asked about where their real allegiance lies.

Fair play to you for writing that, moysider, because you've just presented the opinion of most Mayo football fans generally, for the first time on gaaboard.com

There's a long tradition of Ballagh playing in Mayo, so naturally there are many people who follow Mayo & it's ludicrous for anyone to suggest the club revert to Ros.

You know, I've always counselled against a break-away Ros affiliated club being set up in Ballagh. Why? Because it would split the town, divide the people down the middle & cause ructions. That's not what the GAA's role in a community should be about.

stephenite seems to take the tack that i try to convey that the majority of people in Ballagh are Ros supporters - can you back this up with any quotes from this or any previous threads, or are we to conclude you've just deliberately misrepresented me, stephenite?

I don't know of one single Ballagh Rossie who'd advocate trying to deny the Mayo supporters in Ballagh the right to play in Mayo & represent Mayo.

So try to drop the disingenuous arguments & in the meantime i'll head off to see what the men in the white coats think about it all ... 

[stephenite]

stephenite seems to take the tack that i try to convey that the majority of people in Ballagh are Ros supporters - can you back this up with any quotes from this or any previous threads, or are we to conclude you've just deliberately misrepresented me, stephenite?

Where have I misrepresented you - stop lying and making things up in your head to save the delusion that you somehow have a valid argument - already on this thread you've stated that Noel Durkin, Andy Moran and Pierce Hanley all want to play for Roscommon - so it's only the decent players that want to play for Roscommon - get a grip

Noel Durkin grew up actively supporting Ros with his family - who are all avid Ros supporters - & won a Ros Vocational Schools title, before being obliged by the club to play for Mayo U-21's in 1983 [managed by Johnno btw]. He played with Mayo as he had no choice in the matter and wanted to play IC football.

Pierce Hanley grew up supporting Ros with his family, as anyone from Ballagh will tell ye, if ye care to listen to them. That tosh ye come up with about him "saying" Ballagh is in Mayo is a highly imaginative excercise in reading between the lines by Mayo folk and is part of a desperate attempt to convince themselves he'd have played for them if given a choice. Why let known facts around Ballagh spoil the delusion?

Andy Moran grew up supporting Ros with his family and always played ball wearing his Ros jersey.  These lads have no real problem with Mayo & will play for them when forced to do so, as it allows them to play the game at IC level. Pity their attitude is not reciprocated though...

Seriously lad , stop digging. End of the day Ballaghaderren is in Mayo when it comes to the GAA and all your pathetic whinging and attempts to paint me or anyone else as dishonest ain't going to change the fact, and you have temerity to then accuse of being disengenous

Pierce Hanley did state that Ballagh is in Mayo in an interview - there's no need to read between the lines when this is what he has stated - but, hey don't let the truth get in the way of your continuing need to lie in order to suit your argument

[Lar Naparka]

If say, a legal challenge were taken - or perhaps some group with an interest in breaking the current GAA structure got involved - the parish rule would be blown to smithereens. Ye need to think about that in Mayo.

It damn near was!
I can't recall the year off-hand but I think it was in the late 60s that the Roscommon county board brought their grievances to a Connacht Council meeting. "Law" was being freely mentioned on all sides at the time.
The bottom line is that the status quo was maintained.

It's hardly a radical proposal that people who lived all their life in Co. Roscommon be allowed play for Co. Roscommon. Ros people in Ballagh have no choice - and any attempts to play for Ros have been beaten down by that fine institution of intransigence and of generally doing things pure arse backwards, the Connacht Council.

I can't disagree with any of this- it's a matter of personal opinion!
But I vaguely recall that Ballagh club was not in favour of transferring allegiances when the controversy erupted.  Indeed, some individual members may indeed have wished to be transferred and the same could have applied to some of its townspeople but there was no public outpouring of anguish or anything like that.
The Ballagh club did not make a formal application to be transferred at the time of this Connacht Council arbitration meeting.
Has any formal application from Ballagh to be transferred to Roscommon ever been made?
I can't say I have heard of any. Anyone???
The Parish Rule isn't something I'd like to back my house on either if I had to rely on a legal definition of the same.

Back in 1892, when the transfer of Ballagh to the Swinford poor law district took place, the parish was the civil administration unit and was based on the Cof I parish system. Kilconduff was the district in which the Swinford workhouse was located and the modern Swinford parish is a lot smaller in area. But it accepted by the GAA as the de facto parish boundary for club affiliation purposes. Same applies all over the country, where what is meant by "parish" may in fact have no legal status.
I'm saying that, back in Grand Jury days, when the Ballagh club was founded, it was legally in Co. Mayo. The GAA was structured into parish units and so Ballagh operated as part of the Mayo set up.
Until the legal and civil definition of 'parish' changes, there it is entitled to remain.
On a more worrying note:

Ye don't want to see Ballagh lads  - who are born & reared in County Roscommon & who grew up dreaming of wearing the Ros jersey - playing for their home county, if they so wish.

What?
Those kids, if any do actually exist, are in need of serious counselling.