Where now for Tyrone?

[Il Bomber Destro]

A change of approach may happen but what will it inevitably achieve?

I don't think it will have us much closer to winning an All Ireland than today. Tyrone were physically and athletically dominated by Dublin yesterday.

Are there really any players outside the current squad that will make that much of an impact. I'm sure there will be calls for the likes of Coney and McNulty to be used as a target man type forward but both are badly lacking in the mobility needed for the game today. Have we really any better man markers than what played today in the county? Possibly young McKernan will get a call up today but realistically he's about 3 or 4 years of gym work off being able to man mark one of the Dublin lads yesterday.

It took yesterday to dawn on me how far ahead Dublin are of everyone else. Mayo have been the only side who look like they can match them physically and athletically in the past few years.

That's the bottom line - there are very few other players in the county that are capable of coming into that squad (not just man markers) and as you say it takes a few years to get up to intercounty level unless you are exceptional like O'Callaghan for the Dubs. A lot of our players were shown up yesterday as being decent county players but way short of that elite level. I think a change in approach would get us to the same stage as this year as standards are poor elsewhere but we are absolutely miles off the Dubs. That 2nd choice forward line they showed on the Sunday game last night was frightening.

I don't see what change will really achieve, just for the sake of change. We got found out yesterday but the bottom line is that Tyrone are miles ahead of most teams in the country. The real problem is that Dublin are way ahead of the rest. Mayo right now are the only team to put them up to it but the worrying thing is this Mayo side would look to be on their last legs. Andy Moran, Colm Boyle and Keith Higgins have been inspirational in recent weeks but they're all past the 30 mark now - how long realistically can they go on for? You can see them going the way of Kerry now and we saw yesterday that Tyrone are a good bit off and I don't really see anything that can conceivably propel them on.

[rosnarun]

no tyrone are miles ahead of the the teams they played this year .
tht is all they could do  but if you take the  view that ulster are now the weakest province for which there is a lot of evidence the yesterday was not quiet as suprising .
would tyrone have beaten kildare ,cork meath galway or even god help us Roscommon(esp the connact final drawn game version) I would have my doubts

[Fat Angry Motorist]

no tyrone are miles ahead of the the teams they played this year .
tht is all they could do  but if you take the  view that ulster are now the weakest province for which there is a lot of evidence the yesterday was not quiet as suprising .
would tyrone have beaten kildare ,cork meath galway or even god help us Roscommon(esp the connact final drawn game version) I would have my doubts

Taking Tyrone's weaknesses as seen yesterday as read, I'd be fairly confident they'd comfortably beat all those teams.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone in the semis next year.  I think the Dubs will win the final by 5-8 points and if they have the hunger, passion committment etc I can see them doing 5 or 6 in a row.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Tyrone might be looking at a decade or longer of mediocrity. The thing about being hammered at the business end is that it is often career ending. System meltdown is not good.

Mediocrity?  Winning provincial titles and making the last four?

Tyrone players and supporters might expect (demand?) more, that's their prerogative but it will take a fair regression to lead them to mediocrity.

/Jim.

[Il Bomber Destro]

no tyrone are miles ahead of the the teams they played this year .
tht is all they could do  but if you take the  view that ulster are now the weakest province for which there is a lot of evidence the yesterday was not quiet as suprising .
would tyrone have beaten kildare ,cork meath galway or even god help us Roscommon(esp the connact final drawn game version) I would have my doubts

How is Ulster the weakest province?

Armagh knocked out the second best Leinster side this year and probably the second best Munster side along the way.

They had 5 of the last 12 and 3 of the last 8. It's still the strongest province.

Tyrone, Mayo and Kerry looked to be well ahead of the rest of the pack.

I think next year will be Ulster v Munster in the provincial match ups.

So you could potentially have a Tyrone v Kerry AI semi-final next year.

[seafoid]

Tyrone should start a breeding programme with Down women.

[Fat Angry Motorist]

Tyrone might be looking at a decade or longer of mediocrity. The thing about being hammered at the business end is that it is often career ending. System meltdown is not good.

Mediocrity?  Winning provincial titles and making the last four?

Tyrone players and supporters might expect (demand?) more, that's their prerogative but it will take a fair regression to lead them to mediocrity.

/Jim.

Yeah, this year Tyrone were well ahead of anything else in Ulster, don't see that changing much in the next 12 months.

[stew]

Tyrone might be looking at a decade or longer of mediocrity. The thing about being hammered at the business end is that it is often career ending. System meltdown is not good.

Mediocrity?  Winning provincial titles and making the last four?

Tyrone players and supporters might expect (demand?) more, that's their prerogative but it will take a fair regression to lead them to mediocrity.

/Jim.

Tyrone are a fabulous side, they just ran into one of if not the best teams ever to play the game of gaelic football, 5 in a row is absolutely a possibility now, Dublin are young, hungry and managed brilliantly, I fear for Mayo in the AIF because to me they are nowhere near Tyrone and look what happened to them.

Tyron will be back, they have some fantastic players coming through but Dublin are going to dominate our game for a decade or more, they are that good.

[APM]

no tyrone are miles ahead of the the teams they played this year .
tht is all they could do  but if you take the  view that ulster are now the weakest province for which there is a lot of evidence the yesterday was not quiet as suprising .
would tyrone have beaten kildare ,cork meath galway or even god help us Roscommon(esp the connact final drawn game version) I would have my doubts

Ulster football is not what it was, but to say that it's the weakest province when:
Armagh beat both Westmeath and Kildare (Leinster Semi-Finalist and Finalist)
Donegal beat Meath (Leinster Semi-Finalist)

Leinster with its population and strong football focus, should be the best, but is probably the worst nothwithstanting the fact that Dublin is the best team in Ireland. This stands up when you look at the percentage of teams in each province in each division of the league. 

Connaught is arguably the strongest with 2 from its five teams in the top division and Roscommon now in Division 2. It probably had the most competitive provincial championship this year, with greater potential for upsets.  Ulster and Munster on a par in terms of the percentage of their teams distributed across the top two divisions. Leinster is on balance the weakest province but has the strongest team in Ireland. 

Best comparison is on divisional status:
Ulster
Division 1 - 33%
Division 2 - 22%
Division 3 - 33%
Division 4 - 11%

Munster
Division 1 - 16%
Division 2 - 50%
Division 4 - 33%

Connaught
Division 1 - 40%
Division 2 - 20%
Division 3 - 20%
Division 4 - 20%

Leinster
Division 1 - 18%
Division 2 - 18%
Division 3 - 36%
Division 4 - 27%*
Incl Kilkenny

[Owen Brannigan]

Looks like the Tyrone development squad conveyor belt is producing plenty of the same type of player but not enough or any outstanding athletes who can play football.  Like in a number of other counties, the development squad/academy method is not paying dividends in terms of the quality of players coming through.  Is the coaching of these squads good enough?  The u21 failures over a period of 5/6 years are coming home to roost.

Criticism of Harte needs to be tempered in that he is doing the best with the players coming through.  His defensive method was a development of the McGuinness method and is a result of not having the players needed to beat enough other teams with a more attacking mode.  He can only work with the players in his squad and while some selections are head scratching, there is not a list of players being shouted out by Tyrone posters as alternatives who have been ignored.

[Aristo 60]

Tyrone should start a breeding programme with Down women.

Disgusting!

[seafoid]

Tyrone should start a breeding programme with Down women.

Tyrone might be looking at a decade or longer of mediocrity. The thing about being hammered at the business end is that it is often career ending. System meltdown is not good.

Mediocrity?  Winning provincial titles and making the last four?

Tyrone players and supporters might expect (demand?) more, that's their prerogative but it will take a fair regression to lead them to mediocrity.

/Jim.

The team is dead, Jim. They have to start again. Jinxy can tell you all about it. Mouview is good as well.

[sligoman2]

As a fan of pure football, I'm delighted Tyrone were beaten.

Mickey Harte sure delivered on his statement that he's not interested in entertaining the fans.

Time for him and his puke football to go.. 

Tyrone are too good and talented to be made play like robots with no plan B..

  It has become very unenjoyable to watch Tyrone recently and yesterday was no different.  Time for a change in my opinion.

[Rois]

The u21 failures over a period of 5/6 years are coming home to roost.

I don't understand this - we won the U21 All Ireland in 2015 with what is still a very young team. 
Do you mean that their transition to senior has failed? 

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Looks like the Tyrone development squad conveyor belt is producing plenty of the same type of player but not enough or any outstanding athletes who can play football.  Like in a number of other counties, the development squad/academy method is not paying dividends in terms of the quality of players coming through.  Is the coaching of these squads good enough?  The u21 failures over a period of 5/6 years are coming home to roost.

Criticism of Harte needs to be tempered in that he is doing the best with the players coming through.  His defensive method was a development of the McGuinness method and is a result of not having the players needed to beat enough other teams with a more attacking mode.  He can only work with the players in his squad and while some selections are head scratching, there is not a list of players being shouted out by Tyrone posters as alternatives who have been ignored.

This isn't altogether true IMO. Tyrone do bring through players with flair but much of it is sacrificed for the system on which this team has been built. The aforementioned Coney was a write off because he didn't fit into the the style. It doesn't suit the likes of Ronan O'Neil or Darren McCurry either. I'm not a great fan of McCurry but he and the others in his mould only ever get bits and pieces of games and in a system that isn't built to make the most of their talents. Very hard to flourish in such circumstances.  But Tyrone do have attacking talent.

I never thought Tyrone could win yesterday - although I was surprised by the lack of intensity - and have long argued that this football we play is shite.  It hasn't beaten anybody that Tyrone wouldn't beat playing a more positive style. It inevitably fails when we are playing a team better than us. You would only adopt this style if it could beat a naturally more talented side. But it doesn't. Essentially Tyrone have wasted a few seasons on a flawed system. Now they likely wouldn't beat Dublin anyway, but they'd give themselves some kind of chance if they had men up the field. Sludden, Harte and Donnelly would have been a class half forward line. Used properly they could do much more damage.

As for Mickey, I think he is an inspirational figure and we owe him an awful lot. Given what he has done he should be able to decide when he goes. But I do think he has made a big error of judgement with the way he has built this team. He was once a great innovator  but this team has just been an inferior version of the Donegal of Jimmy McGuiness.  Hard now to go back to the players and after years working on this style admit it was an error and try something else.