Author Topic: Where now for Tyrone?  (Read 8746 times)

seafoid

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #210 on: September 07, 2017, 01:35:37 PM »


Kerry are the only team Dublin did not beat this year!

They didn't beat Donegal either.
they didn't beat Clare or Fermanagh either
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

vallankumous

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #211 on: September 07, 2017, 01:38:19 PM »


Kerry are the only team Dublin did not beat this year!

They didn't beat Donegal either.
they didn't beat Clare or Fermanagh either

I was limiting it to teams they played.

seafoid

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #212 on: September 07, 2017, 01:51:25 PM »
Tyrone are like a high growth stock that just issued a big fuckoff profit warning.
The market had priced in 6 all Irelands over the next 20 years and now it is pricing 1
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Galway hurlers have 5 now, Bomber
So have Down
So have Cavan
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

magpie seanie

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #213 on: September 07, 2017, 02:13:42 PM »
Seanie, did you see that Carew resigned today.  Is it Eamon O time?.....


I saw that. Personally think while Eamon's time will come I am not sure it is yet here. The names like Rory Gallagher, James Horan, Tony McEntee and Pete McGrath interest me more at this moment.

Zulu

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #214 on: September 07, 2017, 05:08:45 PM »
tyrone may have won ulster but i actually think we were better last year. ulster is crap at the minute longford no disrespect beat down and monaghan last year. tyrone will not win another sam under mr conservative. hes the cheaper option at the minute for a team thats going to be rudderless next year on the pitch with all the old heads gone.

As bad as you say Ulster is, it still had 5 of the last 12 in the Championship this season.

There's a big gap between Dublin, Mayo Kerry and Tyrone - the results over the past three years have shown that and it's widened in that time rather than narrowed. And there's a big gap now opening up between Dublin and the rest, to be fair to Mayo they have competed admirably against Dublin and have never feared them but if Dublin go out and win the final with more comfort this time round, it's very worrying for the future of the game.

People who continually moan about defensive systems and style of football really get my back up. The All Ireland is competitive football, it is not exhibition football, teams are going about themselves in the way that they best believe can make them successful or competitive at the least. It goes without saying Dublin are a fearsome side, but with the advantages they have in terms of resources -financial and playing numbers, local employment, Croke Park being their de facto home ground.

The real death knell about about gaelic football right now is one side which always had superior natural advantages which no other side can come close to matching have managed to get their structures in order and as a result will dominate for time to come.

So those lamenting defensive football can shove it, it's something that's been borne out of bigger problem.

That's nonsense in fairness. Sport the world over can be played competitively and entertainingly, it doesn't have to be dross to be competitive. I hate the way Tyrone play as it's awful to watch but I can understand Carlow or the like playing it but when Tyrone play like that against teams inferior to them then the sport itself is damaged. Earlier in the year the likes of yourself and some others were telling us all that at least the Ulster counties don't roll over and have a defensive plan to stifle the Dubs, well that proved to be the nonsense some of us told you it was.

We've already seen this year that football played properly is still a wonderful spectacle, the best in world sport for my money. Tyrone can compete playing more expansive football, you've some of the best players in Ireland, and if you back yourselves then you'll compete with anyone. You mightn't beat the Dubs too often but you'll never again beat them playing 14 behind the ball so surely it's better to entertain your fans on the journey?

You must be completely misunderstanding my point.

Just try and play open football with Dublin at the minute and they will blow you apart. The pace, size and power they have across the pitch is impossible to deal with.

Trying to remain competitive has changed many counties hands when it comes to the style of football they play. I'm sure every county would love to play open attacking football but the gulf is getting so wide that by playing with mass defence they may at least have some chance or some hope.

Defensive football is not ruining the sport, the near on professional attitude of the top counties supported by big resources is what's doing it and nobody can compete with the natural advantages Dublin have here.

Take your head out of the sand.


Correct. Even the wonderful purists from Kerry put in place a "negative" and hard hitting defensive system to defeat Dublin in the league final. Wing backs playing in the forwards and the likes. The game is what it is and everything is biased against defenders (4 step rule not enforced, soft frees given, diving rewarded etc) so the only answer against very good attackers is to try and crowd them out. It's ok against most teams as their skill levels are lower and they'll muck it up themselves but the likes of Tyrone are preparing for the better sides so play the system all the time.

Disagree. I never said Tyrone would beat Dublin playing more conventional but it would give them a better chance. Kerry didn't play a very defensive system in the league final and won. Mayo don't play a very defensive system and push Dublin to the limit every time. Good teams, like Tyrone, have a better chance making McMahon, Cooper and McCaffrey do a bit of defending rather than giving Dublin the ball all day and dying by a thousand cuts.

Tyrone are good enough to play more positively and be successful. They won't necessarily win an All Ireland or even beat the top teams but they have a better (or at least as good) chance of doing so playing more conventionally.

We haven't had 6 forwards staying in their positions for over 30 years so we aren't talking about that. However, if anyone still thinks getting 14 behind the ball will win you games against good teams then they don't understand what they are seeing. All teams will start playing the ball around the defensive structure and probe with patience from now on and while some still won't be good enough to win, it won't be just Dublin picking apart defensive teams anymore.

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #215 on: September 07, 2017, 05:13:46 PM »
tyrone may have won ulster but i actually think we were better last year. ulster is crap at the minute longford no disrespect beat down and monaghan last year. tyrone will not win another sam under mr conservative. hes the cheaper option at the minute for a team thats going to be rudderless next year on the pitch with all the old heads gone.

As bad as you say Ulster is, it still had 5 of the last 12 in the Championship this season.

There's a big gap between Dublin, Mayo Kerry and Tyrone - the results over the past three years have shown that and it's widened in that time rather than narrowed. And there's a big gap now opening up between Dublin and the rest, to be fair to Mayo they have competed admirably against Dublin and have never feared them but if Dublin go out and win the final with more comfort this time round, it's very worrying for the future of the game.

People who continually moan about defensive systems and style of football really get my back up. The All Ireland is competitive football, it is not exhibition football, teams are going about themselves in the way that they best believe can make them successful or competitive at the least. It goes without saying Dublin are a fearsome side, but with the advantages they have in terms of resources -financial and playing numbers, local employment, Croke Park being their de facto home ground.

The real death knell about about gaelic football right now is one side which always had superior natural advantages which no other side can come close to matching have managed to get their structures in order and as a result will dominate for time to come.

So those lamenting defensive football can shove it, it's something that's been borne out of bigger problem.

That's nonsense in fairness. Sport the world over can be played competitively and entertainingly, it doesn't have to be dross to be competitive. I hate the way Tyrone play as it's awful to watch but I can understand Carlow or the like playing it but when Tyrone play like that against teams inferior to them then the sport itself is damaged. Earlier in the year the likes of yourself and some others were telling us all that at least the Ulster counties don't roll over and have a defensive plan to stifle the Dubs, well that proved to be the nonsense some of us told you it was.

We've already seen this year that football played properly is still a wonderful spectacle, the best in world sport for my money. Tyrone can compete playing more expansive football, you've some of the best players in Ireland, and if you back yourselves then you'll compete with anyone. You mightn't beat the Dubs too often but you'll never again beat them playing 14 behind the ball so surely it's better to entertain your fans on the journey?

You must be completely misunderstanding my point.

Just try and play open football with Dublin at the minute and they will blow you apart. The pace, size and power they have across the pitch is impossible to deal with.

Trying to remain competitive has changed many counties hands when it comes to the style of football they play. I'm sure every county would love to play open attacking football but the gulf is getting so wide that by playing with mass defence they may at least have some chance or some hope.

Defensive football is not ruining the sport, the near on professional attitude of the top counties supported by big resources is what's doing it and nobody can compete with the natural advantages Dublin have here.

Take your head out of the sand.


Correct. Even the wonderful purists from Kerry put in place a "negative" and hard hitting defensive system to defeat Dublin in the league final. Wing backs playing in the forwards and the likes. The game is what it is and everything is biased against defenders (4 step rule not enforced, soft frees given, diving rewarded etc) so the only answer against very good attackers is to try and crowd them out. It's ok against most teams as their skill levels are lower and they'll muck it up themselves but the likes of Tyrone are preparing for the better sides so play the system all the time.

Disagree. I never said Tyrone would beat Dublin playing more conventional but it would give them a better chance. Kerry didn't play a very defensive system in the league final and won. Mayo don't play a very defensive system and push Dublin to the limit every time. Good teams, like Tyrone, have a better chance making McMahon, Cooper and McCaffrey do a bit of defending rather than giving Dublin the ball all day and dying by a thousand cuts.

Tyrone are good enough to play more positively and be successful. They won't necessarily win an All Ireland or even beat the top teams but they have a better (or at least as good) chance of doing so playing more conventionally.

We haven't had 6 forwards staying in their positions for over 30 years so we aren't talking about that. However, if anyone still thinks getting 14 behind the ball will win you games against good teams then they don't understand what they are seeing. All teams will start playing the ball around the defensive structure and probe with patience from now on and while some still won't be good enough to win, it won't be just Dublin picking apart defensive teams anymore.

So your criticism is based solely on the Dublin game?

Shamrock Shore

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #216 on: September 07, 2017, 07:13:48 PM »
Seanie, did you see that Carew resigned today.  Is it Eamon O time?.....


I saw that. Personally think while Eamon's time will come I am not sure it is yet here. The names like Rory Gallagher, James Horan, Tony McEntee and Pete McGrath interest me more at this moment.

Where's Banty in that list?

From the Bunker

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #217 on: September 07, 2017, 07:47:26 PM »
Seanie, did you see that Carew resigned today.  Is it Eamon O time?.....


I saw that. Personally think while Eamon's time will come I am not sure it is yet here. The names like Rory Gallagher, James Horan, Tony McEntee and Pete McGrath interest me more at this moment.

Horan is on the media Gravy train!

Real Talk

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #218 on: September 07, 2017, 08:00:11 PM »
Seanie, did you see that Carew resigned today.  Is it Eamon O time?.....


I saw that. Personally think while Eamon's time will come I am not sure it is yet here. The names like Rory Gallagher, James Horan, Tony McEntee and Pete McGrath interest me more at this moment.

Horan is on the media Gravy train!

There are lots of people in the media, skilled and unskilled personel involved in Club and County back-up teams who are all getting money out of our games - that is a living reality that is not likely to change ....  and why not James Horan !!!

magpie seanie

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #219 on: September 08, 2017, 02:28:15 PM »
Seanie, did you see that Carew resigned today.  Is it Eamon O time?.....


I saw that. Personally think while Eamon's time will come I am not sure it is yet here. The names like Rory Gallagher, James Horan, Tony McEntee and Pete McGrath interest me more at this moment.

Where's Banty in that list?

I don't think Banty would be any use for us. We need someone who will bring young players through and put in place a professional setup. I think there are better candidates out there.

ONeill

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #220 on: September 10, 2017, 11:09:45 PM »
I still can't get over the atmosphere at Tyrone games this year, esp in the Ulster semi v Donegal and final v Down.

The atmosphere was dead. It was like sitting down for a show in the Lyric. You could hear the players shout. Tyrone were so orderly and methodical and successful. But no sense of genius like Mulligan or O'Neill or Canavan.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

redhandefender

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #221 on: September 11, 2017, 10:56:43 AM »
I still can't get over the atmosphere at Tyrone games this year, esp in the Ulster semi v Donegal and final v Down.

The atmosphere was dead. It was like sitting down for a show in the Lyric. You could hear the players shout. Tyrone were so orderly and methodical and successful. But no sense of genius like Mulligan or O'Neill or Canavan.

Rubbish, the atmosphere was dead because we were hammering teams.

jp2020

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #222 on: September 11, 2017, 11:43:41 AM »
I still can't get over the atmosphere at Tyrone games this year, esp in the Ulster semi v Donegal and final v Down.

The atmosphere was dead. It was like sitting down for a show in the Lyric. You could hear the players shout. Tyrone were so orderly and methodical and successful. But no sense of genius like Mulligan or O'Neill or Canavan.

Rubbish, the atmosphere was dead because we were hammering teams.

The 1st half against Down wasn't a hammering and the atmosphere was dead!

mcklatchee

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Re: Where now for Tyrone?
« Reply #223 on: September 11, 2017, 01:26:33 PM »
Happy enough for Harte to stay on.

The style of football doesn't bother me as long as its getting the best out of the players available to him, which I think he is. I'd like to see a few defenders given a run next year and see if we can be a little bit more aggressive and on the front foot in what we're doing.

Unfortunately we're really lacking in big talented inside forwards which makes us very predictable. Coney has had his chances as has Niall McKenna, I don't think McNulty has the mobility to be effective in the very big games. Apart from that I don't think there is any other real options. I think Ronan O'Neill lacks the pace to be a top forward and McCurry looks like a player bereft of confidence the past two years, perhaps a year out might do him the world of good.

I'd like to see the squad freshened up in some ways.

We're badly lacking in size now with Justy and Sean Cavanagh stepping away so we'll need to add a few big physical lads back into the mix. How has Conor Clarke being doing with Omagh?

Agree about giving a few defenders a run out. Maybe drop Bradley and bring in a defender. And now that Sean has retired maybe bring in a more defensive minded player for that role

So instead of playing a 1-13-1 formation, simply shut up shop and revert to a 1-14-0 formation. With the added caveat that Cavanaghs replacement is not allowed cross the halfway line.

These would only be short term measures. Longer term surgery is ultimately required. Underage structures need to be examined. Narrowing the pitch at either end like an Aussie oval would cut down the cost of maintaining bits of the playing surface nobody uses. This money could be redirected into underage games and fund cilices to be worn during games to increase focus and reduce pleasure. Players remaining in the attacking half when the opposition has the ball or is thinking of having the ball would have to wear a tighter or second cilice. Also underage players would be banned from kicking the ball forward except were the rules of the game demands it or when an attempt is made to score directly
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