Author Topic: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact  (Read 10027 times)

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #105 on: September 03, 2017, 04:16:25 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

But surely there is always room for a god?

Plenty of gaps in our knowledge and explanations, and with the big bang, specifically about what was going on right before it.

I understand the problem of these gaps diminishing over time, of course!

Not sure I get you mate. I believe in god. I sometimes find it hard to combine my faith with he knowledge I have learned from 📖 my science

Just saying that reconciling the two is not a problem for many people, including the Catholic Church. There are enough gaps in knowledge to squeeze a god in there, if you really believe in it.

I don't really want to get into discussing my faith but I do more Jan just squeeze a god in there. I think I know what you're saying though

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #106 on: September 03, 2017, 09:38:51 PM »
Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

Atheists certainly have murdered. But have any done so in the name of atheism?

Can the same be said of Christianity and its various sects?

And is Christianity not supposed to provide some moral guidance?

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #107 on: September 03, 2017, 09:43:38 PM »
Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

Sports psychology covers a multitude. Jury is out on a lot of it. The view of sensible people will be evidence lead. Stuff that doesn't work will be called out as horse shit.

The rosary will be subject to the same test. Stands to reason

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #108 on: September 03, 2017, 09:52:27 PM »

Doing so would more likely have a player who's head is in the right place, more likely to get maximum performance for the player and more likely to get maximum performance for the team. It a save assumption

Evidence?

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #109 on: September 03, 2017, 10:15:16 PM »
I believe Harte is well within his rights to try whatever method he sees fit as long as he and is players see value in it, there should be no exclusion to anything legal.

Is that the deal here? If it's legal then anything goes? What about morals/ethics? Have they any role in life, sport or indeed religion?

I'm not saying that the rosary is unethical. I would contend it's a waste of time but not unethical

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #110 on: September 03, 2017, 10:20:10 PM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.

Who is moving knowledge on - science or religion?

Everyone on here is an atheist. Omaghjoe, Iceman and Fearon included

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #111 on: September 03, 2017, 10:24:59 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

But surely there is always room for a god?

Plenty of gaps in our knowledge and explanations, and with the big bang, specifically about what was going on right before it.

I understand the problem of these gaps diminishing over time, of course!

Room for God?????

The gaps in knowledge leaves a opportunity for alternatives but for something to fill a gap it needs evidence. It can't just be that God fills the gap by default whilst the gap continues to exist

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #112 on: September 03, 2017, 10:50:01 PM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.

Who is moving knowledge on - science or religion?

Everyone on here is an atheist. Omaghjoe, Iceman and Fearon included

How do you figure that?

trileacman

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #113 on: September 04, 2017, 12:15:16 AM »
What's with the "load of strangers" and "face value"?

Do you expect everyone to invent everything themselves from first principles?

Or must we only rely on people personally known to us, such as the priests teaching us about religion? (Although why is RELIGION not written off as the creation of total strangers?)

Do you avail of medical care? Do you fly? Do you first research, from the ground up, everything and anything that affects any aspect of you life, or do you put your trust in the accumulation of human knowledge and expertise, realizing that expertize must, by necessity, be spread across a multitude of disciplines and the people working on them?

No need to be so tetchy about this. There's a lot of questions there.

Quote
What's with the "load of strangers" and "face value"?

Please rephrase. I don't understand that question.

Quote
Do you expect everyone to invent everything themselves from first principles?

No I don't. I expect people to respect the beliefs of others and not sneer at them with a sense of glib superiority because they've seen a 10 minute video on youtube about the creation of the universe. The majority of people who believe in the big bang theory have only a passing knowledge of it and are oblivious to the numerous contradictions and inaccuracies it possesses. They believe it because it's a popular theory and people they perceive to be smarter than them espouse it. That's pretty much how the religions that they denigrate work.

Quote
Or must we only rely on people personally known to us, such as the priests teaching us about religion? (Although why is RELIGION not written off as the creation of total strangers?)

You see this is the atheism fervour I was referring to. Where did I say that religion is not to be written off as the creation of total strangers? Where did I say that people must rely on people personally known to us? If you can find examples of where I support "RELIGION" then point them out to me.

Quote
Do you avail of medical care?
Yes

Quote
Do you fly?
Yeah but it's shite.

Quote
Do you first research, from the ground up, everything and anything that affects any aspect of you life, or do you put your trust in the accumulation of human knowledge and expertise, realizing that expertize must, by necessity, be spread across a multitude of disciplines and the people working on them?

I trust others but there's a difference in trusting the knowledge of others and hijacking pieces of information to deride the beliefs of others. Beliefs instilled in them the same way as your beliefs where instilled in yourself.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
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LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #114 on: September 04, 2017, 08:22:01 AM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.

Who is moving knowledge on - science or religion?

Everyone on here is an atheist. Omaghjoe, Iceman and Fearon included

How do you figure that?

Anyone want to spell out their faith in Woden/Odin, Zeus, Jupiter, Pan, Krishna, Thor etc?

If they don't believe in them would they care to spell out the grounds for their atheism?

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #115 on: September 04, 2017, 09:05:02 AM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.

Who is moving knowledge on - science or religion?

Everyone on here is an atheist. Omaghjoe, Iceman and Fearon included

How do you figure that?

Anyone want to spell out their faith in Woden/Odin, Zeus, Jupiter, Pan, Krishna, Thor etc?

If they don't believe in them would they care to spell out the grounds for their atheism?

Sonny not believing in those gods they are atheist?

LCohen

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #116 on: September 04, 2017, 11:35:16 AM »
As an aside I'm pretty agnostic but I've to laugh at the fervour in which vast swathes of pseudo-intellectuals imbrace atheism and science with a feeling of smug superiority over religious folk. It's evident daily on this board.

Religious attempts to rationalise the universe are just as valid your scientific attempts to do the same. 600 years ago the smartest people knew as an undeniable fact that the earth was the centre of the solar system and probably sneered at those with more antiquated notions. In 100 or 200 years there'll be another slew of pseudo-intellectuals who'll laugh at the ideas upon which many atheists today hang their existence on.

Who is moving knowledge on - science or religion?

Everyone on here is an atheist. Omaghjoe, Iceman and Fearon included

How do you figure that?

Anyone want to spell out their faith in Woden/Odin, Zeus, Jupiter, Pan, Krishna, Thor etc?

If they don't believe in them would they care to spell out the grounds for their atheism?

Sonny not believing in those gods they are atheist?

It would make them as atheistic about those gods as I am about Yahweh

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #117 on: September 04, 2017, 12:59:56 PM »
What's with the "load of strangers" and "face value"?

Do you expect everyone to invent everything themselves from first principles?

Or must we only rely on people personally known to us, such as the priests teaching us about religion? (Although why is RELIGION not written off as the creation of total strangers?)

Do you avail of medical care? Do you fly? Do you first research, from the ground up, everything and anything that affects any aspect of you life, or do you put your trust in the accumulation of human knowledge and expertise, realizing that expertize must, by necessity, be spread across a multitude of disciplines and the people working on them?

No need to be so tetchy about this. There's a lot of questions there.

Quote
What's with the "load of strangers" and "face value"?

Please rephrase. I don't understand that question.

Quote
Do you expect everyone to invent everything themselves from first principles?

No I don't. I expect people to respect the beliefs of others and not sneer at them with a sense of glib superiority because they've seen a 10 minute video on youtube about the creation of the universe. The majority of people who believe in the big bang theory have only a passing knowledge of it and are oblivious to the numerous contradictions and inaccuracies it possesses. They believe it because it's a popular theory and people they perceive to be smarter than them espouse it. That's pretty much how the religions that they denigrate work.

Quote
Or must we only rely on people personally known to us, such as the priests teaching us about religion? (Although why is RELIGION not written off as the creation of total strangers?)

You see this is the atheism fervour I was referring to. Where did I say that religion is not to be written off as the creation of total strangers? Where did I say that people must rely on people personally known to us? If you can find examples of where I support "RELIGION" then point them out to me.

Quote
Do you avail of medical care?
Yes

Quote
Do you fly?
Yeah but it's shite.

Quote
Do you first research, from the ground up, everything and anything that affects any aspect of you life, or do you put your trust in the accumulation of human knowledge and expertise, realizing that expertize must, by necessity, be spread across a multitude of disciplines and the people working on them?

I trust others but there's a difference in trusting the knowledge of others and hijacking pieces of information to deride the beliefs of others. Beliefs instilled in them the same way as your beliefs where instilled in yourself.

Ok, so you don't like it when your friends sneer at the beliefs of others because your consider your friends' opinions as ill- considered as the opinions they're deriding.

As an aside, I would question why you are friends with such people if they anger you so?

But getting back, just who IS allowed to comment on religious belief then? Because religion makes claims about a lot of things, quite possibly everything at some point, and no one can be an expert in and counter all those areas.

And where do you draw the line?

Can we sneer at Ken Ham and his Noah's Ark museum in Kentucky and call it out for the anti-intellectual freak show that it is? Can we condemn anti-homosexual bigotry based, supposedly, on some biblical verses, possibly bolstered with unsupported or discredited psychological opinion? Or, as a declared agnostic, is it only god-existence/creation of the universe stuff, stuff where we're getting close to the limits of science, where the problem exists?

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #118 on: September 04, 2017, 01:21:08 PM »
sorry easytiger most of that wasnt directed at you - i took the opportunity to vent my frustrations and it wasn't directly pointed at you even though it was in reply to you initially

its difficult to be a believer on this board - because it is my life I can't stand idly by when people throw it in the gutter and spout lies about it. I am very logical and rational and I'm a Catholic. Some people don't believe those can co-exist and angrily go on the offense in unrelated threads.

I did agree in this instance that those who don't want to pray should not be forced to. If thats the case here it is wrong but I don't want to speculate. I am not in the tryone team and dont know anyone who would speak to it who is.

I echo AZs comments. It is harder and harder to stick around. When it's good its great but most of the time it's saddening

I know you are coming from. I've a degree in Astrophysics and am a catholic who has faith. Sometimes I find it hard to marry the two myself never mind others doing it

Laws of the universe?

....or are there actaully none at all... what the feck is dark Matter? Is it in us also? Why does it only noticeable with Gravity at macro levels...What the feck is gravity anyway?
Considering Spacetime what do you think of the Block Universe/Eternalisim?
IF you could start a new thread titled Cosmoslogy might be a good place to hear your thoughts on all this stuff?

I wouldn't say the laws of the universe as such.
Dark matter is matter which is believed to be there due to the effect it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said it all scientists believe it exists
God Is a being which is believed to be there due to the effects it has but hasn't been observed yet. That's a very basic definition. Has to be said that the vast majority of all people living and dead believe God exists.
The point of this is?

Not sure of his meaning but I would say the gist of it is that science is merely another form of religion to many folk. I've loads of friends who believe 100% in the Big Bang theory but wouldn't have the brains to fry an egg. They've wholeheartedly dispensed with the thought of Christianity but believe in something that a load of complete strangers have told them instead. Fair enough if you've a degree in Astrophysics and understand the concepts of the Big Bang theory but there's loads of gonshites out there with only enough mental capacity to open a Facebook account who take the Big Bang theory at face value.

I understand enough about the BBT and the evidence that backs it up to believe it is the most likely theory for the formation of the universe. That did I also believe in God which is the point I was making. I find it hard to marry the two. Don't really want to discuss my faith on a forum like this though

But surely there is always room for a god?

Plenty of gaps in our knowledge and explanations, and with the big bang, specifically about what was going on right before it.

I understand the problem of these gaps diminishing over time, of course!

Room for God?????

The gaps in knowledge leaves a opportunity for alternatives but for something to fill a gap it needs evidence. It can't just be that God fills the gap by default whilst the gap continues to exist

That would be my opinion, yes.

Not everyone's though.

Personally, I've no problem with that. They're not the people trying to get evolution and plate tectonics and climate change and an ancient universe out of public education in favour of Adam and Eve happily petting vegetarian tyrannosaurs and the downplaying of the treatment of blacks and natives in US history.

seafoid

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #119 on: September 04, 2017, 02:36:40 PM »
People all over Galway were saying the rosary

https://youtu.be/fCVOusytfHw
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