Author Topic: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact  (Read 6428 times)

omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2017, 05:43:43 PM »
The thing about Catholic prayers is they only work if you believe them. That was genius .
If you were poor and your life was shit you would get an upgrade in the next life. Genius.

If you spout enough mildly related nonsense you eventually can stumble back on point, you really need to improve your algorithms  ;)

If Jock Stein's players were Catholic, its save to assume that they believe prayer works so going to mass would likely be beneficial to their performance.

Much like sports psycology

Still wondering about Cortez tho?

seafoid

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2017, 05:48:12 PM »
The thing about Catholic prayers is they only work if you believe them. That was genius .
If you were poor and your life was shit you would get an upgrade in the next life. Genius.

If you spout enough mildly related nonsense you eventually can stumble back on point, you really need to improve your algorithms  ;)

If Jock Stein's players were Catholic, its save to assume that they believe prayer works so going to mass would likely be beneficial to their performance.

Much like sports psycology

Still wondering about Cortez tho?
Catholicism murdered more people than the Nazis

"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2017, 05:58:34 PM »
The thing about Catholic prayers is they only work if you believe them. That was genius .
If you were poor and your life was shit you would get an upgrade in the next life. Genius.

If you spout enough mildly related nonsense you eventually can stumble back on point, you really need to improve your algorithms  ;)

If Jock Stein's players were Catholic, its save to assume that they believe prayer works so going to mass would likely be beneficial to their performance.

Much like sports psycology

Still wondering about Cortez tho?
Catholicism murdered more people than the Nazis

You should somehow try and program in a red herring flag to your programming Seafoid.

Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

What in the world has this all got to do with Jock Stein???
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 06:37:50 PM by omaghjoe »

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2017, 08:10:01 PM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2017, 08:43:15 PM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

seafoid

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2017, 08:52:42 PM »
The thing about Catholic prayers is they only work if you believe them. That was genius .
If you were poor and your life was shit you would get an upgrade in the next life. Genius.

If you spout enough mildly related nonsense you eventually can stumble back on point, you really need to improve your algorithms  ;)

If Jock Stein's players were Catholic, its save to assume that they believe prayer works so going to mass would likely be beneficial to their performance.

Much like sports psycology

Still wondering about Cortez tho?
Catholicism murdered more people than the Nazis

You should somehow try and program in a red herring flag to your programming Seafoid.

Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

What in the world has this all got to do with Jock Stein???

Joe go read some history. Local religions were all exterminated in Latin America and churches built on holy sites. The Church sided with fascists in the Spanish civil war 

Your argument could be rephrased to say the Nazi party didn't kill people. GunS don't kill people etc ad nauseum
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2017, 09:02:13 PM »
The thing about Catholic prayers is they only work if you believe them. That was genius .
If you were poor and your life was shit you would get an upgrade in the next life. Genius.

If you spout enough mildly related nonsense you eventually can stumble back on point, you really need to improve your algorithms  ;)

If Jock Stein's players were Catholic, its save to assume that they believe prayer works so going to mass would likely be beneficial to their performance.

Much like sports psycology

Still wondering about Cortez tho?
Catholicism murdered more people than the Nazis

You should somehow try and program in a red herring flag to your programming Seafoid.

Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

What in the world has this all got to do with Jock Stein???

Joe go read some history. Local religions were all exterminated in Latin America and churches built on holy sites. The Church sided with fascists in the Spanish civil war 

Your argument could be rephrased to say the Nazi party didn't kill people. GunS don't kill people etc ad nauseum

For a bot your surprisingly lacking in logic.... I'll post again concentrate on thw words this time


Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

What in the world has this all got to do with Jock Stein???

J70

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2017, 09:19:07 PM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

Didn't say it was more or less inappropriate.

I said whatever the rights and wrongs of sports psychology, forcing people over whom you hold power to partake in religious ceremonies, just because they were raised catholic, is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable, especially in this day and age. You're arrogantly presuming that you know what is best, from a religious perspective, for an individual.

It may well be the case also for the use of sports psychology. Or it may not (I don't know enough about the field). I would hope that a player would be free to opt out of such sessions if they did not find them useful. And I would hope that any player would be free to tell Mickey Harte where to stick his rosary without fear of penalty or other repercussion.



omaghjoe

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2017, 05:28:48 AM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

Didn't say it was more or less inappropriate.

I said whatever the rights and wrongs of sports psychology, forcing people over whom you hold power to partake in religious ceremonies, just because they were raised catholic, is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable, especially in this day and age. You're arrogantly presuming that you know what is best, from a religious perspective, for an individual.

It may well be the case also for the use of sports psychology. Or it may not (I don't know enough about the field). I would hope that a player would be free to opt out of such sessions if they did not find them useful. And I would hope that any player would be free to tell Mickey Harte where to stick his rosary without fear of penalty or other repercussion.

Your moving the goalposts to fit your antirelgious bias
Tony said it was the Catholic players not "raised Catholic" so our discussion is based on that.
If a player adheres to a believe system its entirely appropriate for the manager to ask them to fulful it as well as he can.
Doing so would more likely have a player who's head is in the right place, more likely to get maximum performance for the player and more likely to get maximum performance for the team. It a save assumption not an arrogant one, whats different now than the 60s?

Sports Psychology would be considered the same as any other preparation technique whether that be diet, S&C or team training, if you decided you arent gonna  do it cos you dont believe it would be any use you would end up like me when I was a minor out on your hole.

There's not a manger in the country would stand for 2nd guessing his techniques on training psychology, team building, routines or anything else, sometimes players have to sacrifice part of themselves as individuals for the good of the team.

As for telling Mickey Harte to stick his rosary up his hole without recriminations catch yourself on FFS, any insult like that carrys consequences. Look at Kevin Cassidy / JMG incident, Cassidy did less than insult the manager and I thought JMG was wrong but you couldn't argue with the end result.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 05:53:17 AM by omaghjoe »

lenny

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2017, 07:10:10 AM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

Didn't say it was more or less inappropriate.

I said whatever the rights and wrongs of sports psychology, forcing people over whom you hold power to partake in religious ceremonies, just because they were raised catholic, is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable, especially in this day and age. You're arrogantly presuming that you know what is best, from a religious perspective, for an individual.

It may well be the case also for the use of sports psychology. Or it may not (I don't know enough about the field). I would hope that a player would be free to opt out of such sessions if they did not find them useful. And I would hope that any player would be free to tell Mickey Harte where to stick his rosary without fear of penalty or other repercussion.

Totally agree. If you look at the stats for young people who are actually practicing catholics as opposed to being born catholic it would be a small enough percentage. Unless the tyrone group of players are completely exceptional you would expect a good few of the players to have no interest in praying or going to mass. They just blindly go to mass and say the rosary following micky's orders because they fear consequences, ie being dropped. It's the old catholic guilt thing which micky is completely taking advantage of and it shows he rules in an atmosphere of fear. It also shows a group of players who can't think for themselves and it's a reason why they were completely dismantled by dublin.

sensethetone

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2017, 07:48:34 AM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

Didn't say it was more or less inappropriate.

I said whatever the rights and wrongs of sports psychology, forcing people over whom you hold power to partake in religious ceremonies, just because they were raised catholic, is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable, especially in this day and age. You're arrogantly presuming that you know what is best, from a religious perspective, for an individual.

It may well be the case also for the use of sports psychology. Or it may not (I don't know enough about the field). I would hope that a player would be free to opt out of such sessions if they did not find them useful. And I would hope that any player would be free to tell Mickey Harte where to stick his rosary without fear of penalty or other repercussion.

Totally agree. If you look at the stats for young people who are actually practicing catholics as opposed to being born catholic it would be a small enough percentage. Unless the tyrone group of players are completely exceptional you would expect a good few of the players to have no interest in praying or going to mass. They just blindly go to mass and say the rosary following micky's orders because they fear consequences, ie being dropped. It's the old catholic guilt thing which micky is completely taking advantage of and it shows he rules in an atmosphere of fear. It also shows a group of players who can't think for themselves and it's a reason why they were completely dismantled by dublin.

So you don't bother with the Chapel then Lenny?

lenny

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2017, 08:52:51 AM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.

Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

Didn't say it was more or less inappropriate.

I said whatever the rights and wrongs of sports psychology, forcing people over whom you hold power to partake in religious ceremonies, just because they were raised catholic, is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable, especially in this day and age. You're arrogantly presuming that you know what is best, from a religious perspective, for an individual.

It may well be the case also for the use of sports psychology. Or it may not (I don't know enough about the field). I would hope that a player would be free to opt out of such sessions if they did not find them useful. And I would hope that any player would be free to tell Mickey Harte where to stick his rosary without fear of penalty or other repercussion.

Totally agree. If you look at the stats for young people who are actually practicing catholics as opposed to being born catholic it would be a small enough percentage. Unless the tyrone group of players are completely exceptional you would expect a good few of the players to have no interest in praying or going to mass. They just blindly go to mass and say the rosary following micky's orders because they fear consequences, ie being dropped. It's the old catholic guilt thing which micky is completely taking advantage of and it shows he rules in an atmosphere of fear. It also shows a group of players who can't think for themselves and it's a reason why they were completely dismantled by dublin.

So you don't bother with the Chapel then Lenny?

I go once or twice a month on average but I don't see too many lads in their 20s there. The numbers are dwindling but maybe in Tyrone they're all exceptionally holy.

tonto1888

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2017, 09:18:08 AM »
The thing about Catholic prayers is they only work if you believe them. That was genius .
If you were poor and your life was shit you would get an upgrade in the next life. Genius.

If you spout enough mildly related nonsense you eventually can stumble back on point, you really need to improve your algorithms  ;)

If Jock Stein's players were Catholic, its save to assume that they believe prayer works so going to mass would likely be beneficial to their performance.

Much like sports psycology

Still wondering about Cortez tho?
Catholicism murdered more people than the Nazis

You should somehow try and program in a red herring flag to your programming Seafoid.

Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

What in the world has this all got to do with Jock Stein???

Joe go read some history. Local religions were all exterminated in Latin America and churches built on holy sites. The Church sided with fascists in the Spanish civil war 

Your argument could be rephrased to say the Nazi party didn't kill people. GunS don't kill people etc ad nauseum

For a bot your surprisingly lacking in logic.... I'll post again concentrate on thw words this time


Catholicism is a religious belief system, it didn't murder anyone, and murder is the no.1 wrong within it. People who identify as Catholic of course did murder but then so did atheists.

What in the world has this all got to do with Jock Stein???

People have been murdered in the name of Catholicism.
What has jock stein got to do with Tyrone players saying the rosary?

APM

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2017, 09:32:29 AM »
What about Jock Stein, a non catholic, who nonetheless made all his catholic players attend mass on Holidays of Obligation, if Celtic were away on European business.


Very arrogant and presumptuous of him.

Was a different time. He rightly would not get away with such nonsense these days.

How is it arrogant if someone is a Catholic?

Isn't Sports Psychology being even more presumptive and getting away with it these days?

Ok Joe, its NOT arrogant and presumptuous to force someone else to go to mass.

Christ lad, you'd argue black is white just for the craic! ;D

Whatever sports psychology (whether its Jim McGuinness or Enda McNulty or Eileen Drury or whatever) is or isn't is irrelevant to the fact that forcing a subordinate to attend a religious ceremony is inappropriate.

Why is it any more inappropriate than a sports psychology session? How is the comparison irrelevant?

If they were Catholic its entirely appropriate as he probably feels it would get them in the right place for performance.

Didn't say it was more or less inappropriate.

I said whatever the rights and wrongs of sports psychology, forcing people over whom you hold power to partake in religious ceremonies, just because they were raised catholic, is absolutely inappropriate and unjustifiable, especially in this day and age. You're arrogantly presuming that you know what is best, from a religious perspective, for an individual.

It may well be the case also for the use of sports psychology. Or it may not (I don't know enough about the field). I would hope that a player would be free to opt out of such sessions if they did not find them useful. And I would hope that any player would be free to tell Mickey Harte where to stick his rosary without fear of penalty or other repercussion.

Your moving the goalposts to fit your antirelgious bias
Tony said it was the Catholic players not "raised Catholic" so our discussion is based on that.
If a player adheres to a believe system its entirely appropriate for the manager to ask them to fulful it as well as he can.
Doing so would more likely have a player who's head is in the right place, more likely to get maximum performance for the player and more likely to get maximum performance for the team. It a save assumption not an arrogant one, whats different now than the 60s?

Sports Psychology would be considered the same as any other preparation technique whether that be diet, S&C or team training, if you decided you arent gonna  do it cos you dont believe it would be any use you would end up like me when I was a minor out on your hole.

There's not a manger in the country would stand for 2nd guessing his techniques on training psychology, team building, routines or anything else, sometimes players have to sacrifice part of themselves as individuals for the good of the team.

As for telling Mickey Harte to stick his rosary up his hole without recriminations catch yourself on FFS, any insult like that carrys consequences. Look at Kevin Cassidy / JMG incident, Cassidy did less than insult the manager and I thought JMG was wrong but you couldn't argue with the end result.

You just made the point for me; someone in a position of power is thrusting his religion onto subordinates. 

I'll say it again: the GAA is not an exclusively catholic organisation and we aspire to attract participants from all parts of society.  The fact that we are mostly catholic is an even greater reason not to bring religion into the dressing room.  What message does it give to non-members who we claim to welcome. 


 

Rossfan

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Re: Saying the rosary doesn't work. Fact
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2017, 10:18:43 AM »
Many protestants playing gaelic football in Tyrone?
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